Army chief blasts redshirt leaders over charter draft referendum

[webfact]

Army chief blasts redshirt leaders over charter draft referendum



BANGKOK: -- Army commander-in-chief Gen Thirachai Narkvanich today blasted redshirt core leaders for criticising the military over its support for territorial defense students to campaign for charter draft referendum.

The army chief said what they (redshirt leaders) said would only wreck the spirits of the students who have determination to go out to explain to the people about the charter draft referendum, and to encourage them to exercise their rights to cast their votes in the referendum.

The students wanted to tell the people what this charter draft intends to do, which is mainly about the cracking of corruption, he said.

He said if they felt they were not getting trouble from the draft charter, they should stop accusing the Army Reserve Office which came out to use territorial defense students in the campaign for draft referendum.

He said the students wanted to volunteer in the campaign and they are not directed by anyone to do this.

Earlier redshirt leaders Jatuporn Prompan and Nattawut Saikur strongly criticised the move by the Army Reserve Office supporting the territorial defense students to campaign for charter draft referendum, saying this was tantamount to guide the students of what the Military wanted.

Source: http://englishnews.thaipbs.or.th/content/150011


-- Thai PBS 2016-02-08

[JAG]

Using School Army Cadets to spread their political message!

[heybruce]

"The students wanted to tell the people what this charter draft intends to do, which is mainly about the cracking of corruption, he said."

Not all corruption, of course:

"Among the institutions that have also proved difficult to reform is the police, a target of would-be reformers for decades.

Apart from appointing a new police chief with close ties to the military, the junta has largely left the police alone. The same goes for the highly politicized judiciary and the military itself." http://www.reuters.com/article/us-thailand-politics-idUSKCN0VC2V7

[chainarong]

The problem with this is the use of students or young people to deliver a message from the government, even though on the face of it this would seem a simple idea to get a serious message across, just the implication of young people doing the dirty deeds of a totalitarian government doesn't sit well with morals, if this Junta hasn't got the message to the people about the charter draft referendum by now , nothing is going to change by having students conscripted into being a mouthpiece for an unelected government...............................................

[Hawk]

The students wanted to tell the people what this charter draft intends to do, which is mainly about the cracking of corruption, he said.

This government has no intention of ever "cracking corruption" because its an impossibility.

Anyway, what do a bunch of army conscripts know about the law and the charter? Nothing!

[iReason]

[JAG]

None of the Army Cadets I know are not in the organisation through any political fervour. Few have any real interest in soldiering. Most of the boys join because it reduces or removes their liability for conscription.

Most of the girls join because their boyfriends are in it.

Edited February 8, 2016 by JAG

[smedly]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

Edited February 8, 2016 by smedly

[jonclark]

I have no problem about using RorDor students to spread the word.

But the big reservation I have is that in order to spread the word and encourage people to vote for it they, the people encouraging people to vote, need to have at least have an idea of what is in the charter; there needs to be some belief on the students part in the strength of the Charter.

Now most RorDor students are around the 16-17 year old mark, they would struggle to read and understand the complexities of a 50 page novel, let alone a draft constitution. [i'll ignore the fact they they are also too young to vote]

So in essence the army are giving the students the mantra (vote for the charter, vote for the charter, it is good, it is good) but their little soldiers have sod all idea nor interest in what they are encouraging people to vote for or why its good?

Doesn't sound very open or transparent method. In fact is sounds like a decidedly 'red shirted type tactic'. Fighting fire, with fire perhaps, but that type of logic usually results in a single bloody huge bonfire.

Edited February 8, 2016 by jonclark

[seajae]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

[waitforusalso]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

[ALLSEEINGEYE]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

[Snig27]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

They ALL attacked people who disagreed. Or maybe the people who told of being beaten up and left for dead by the whistle brigade's tough boys were making it up? And they all paid people to protest. In my street the shopkeepers were almost stripped bare by the demands for cash from Suthep's southern enforcers, time and time again. It was not voluntary support. That money went to keeping the out-of-Bangkok flag wavers in the streets.

The thing is, you can't allow one version of the story to be told unless you allow the others. All POV are valid and if Thailand is to have any future, they must be heard.

[yellowboat]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

Again you are wanting to fight rather than reconcile. The Thais I have the pleasure of working with feel the Shinawatra are for the poor. Your statements and the good general's make the whole idea of reconciliation completely. Also using the military convey a political message is worrisome. More so when they are young.

[bark]

If one side allows the students for yes; then the other side for no should be able to use students; also.

[yellowboat]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

So you are apposed to any reconciliation ? You want hostilities to continue ?

[thhMan]

It seems to fall in line with an IQ study that I posted about earlier http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/892278-human-degeneration-some-correlations-with-iq/

Interesting to see how much of that report seems to fall into place with whats going on in Thailand

[Baerboxer]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Baerboxer

[kingdratsab]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

What is it with this forum, the politics of Thailand should be taboo for any farrang to interfere or even make comment on.

These are problems that should be strictly reserved for the Thai people. Some people think ,just because they live here,

they should have some sort of say in the running of the country.

[JAG]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

Calling them volunteers rather proves the old military maxim that "a volunteer is someone who didn't understand the question. "

[Baerboxer]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

Again you are wanting to fight rather than reconcile. The Thais I have the pleasure of working with feel the Shinawatra are for the poor. Your statements and the good general's make the whole idea of reconciliation completely. Also using the military convey a political message is worrisome. More so when they are young.

Interesting, The Thais I have the pleasure of knowing well enough to discuss this topic feel the Shins are for the Shins.

The Shins idea of reconciliation would be to give Thaksin his blanket whitewash, and all the other family and cronies. Zero the clock as Thaksin put it. And of course allow them to control the trough, ignore laws they don't like and do just as they please. Providing of course they managed to "win" an election again.

If not, then they would dispute the results for any reason imaginable until they did.

Reconciliation won't work without change which won't happen without reform. Trouble is, neither side really want any change, just control.

[Krataiboy]

the reds have held a tight grip on their "red" areas and never allowed the truth or an other people to tell the people any different to what the reds demand of them. They are now starting to panic because they are afraid of the people finding out the truth and no longer simply being sheep for the reds to tell what they must do or accept, if the reds lose their power over these people they will collapse and the leaders now it. The truth being told in red areas is unheard of in recent times, jutaporn and friends simply dont want to lose their grip on everyone which is what the referendum will do if it is approved. Not saying that using the defence students is the right way to go but if they agree with what the referendum says then they have every right to push it as this is their country not those in here that are opposed to it.

So, do you & your buddies really think this is a good constitution that should be passed in a referendum? Really?

This draft (& the last one) is shameful. It is simply rubber stamping the army's ongoing control over parliament. It restricts freedoms & stifles democracy to the point it is hardly worth having a lower house.

Here is an accurate assessment of the draft turd

http://asiapacific.anu.edu.au/newmandala/2016/02/05/liberties-and-rights-lost-under-thailands-2016-constitution/

You people really make me sick backing this foul administration!

Gee wiz, something that stops the red shirts, and their non elected non democratic leaders keeping a control on information - and they don't like it. What a surprise.

Normally, opposition candidates and spokes people, canvassers or anyone even daring to question the Shin party are dealt with - warned off, intimidated, assaulted or even murdered. The gang protects its turf. Bit different when it's the military.

New Mandala - accurate and unbiased, your having a laugh, Why not ask Yingluck, number 1 cousin, Chalerm or any of the former cabinet to comment?

They don't like anything that takes power away from them or the opportunity to get back in charge of the trough. Period.

The posters on here who love to pretend the Shins are remotely interesting in democracy and justice for the poor rather than proven liars who brag at how much they've increased their fortune whilst in government, and break the laws they don't like, are the ones who make any reasonable person want to puke.

Agree with much of what you say re Wall Street proxy Thaksin and his intimidatory tactics. But two wrongs don't make a right. These kids are an arm of the military which took over the country in a coup. How can they possibly be expected to educate the peasants impartially?. It's just another "attitude adjustment" exercise on a massive scale.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Krataiboy

[lucky11]

The problem with this is the use of students or young people to deliver a message from the government, even though on the face of it this would seem a simple idea to get a serious message across, just the implication of young people doing the dirty deeds of a totalitarian government doesn't sit well with morals, if this Junta hasn't got the message to the people about the charter draft referendum by now , nothing is going to change by having students conscripted into being a mouthpiece for an unelected government...............................................

Do you deem conscripted to be the same as volunteering? I always thought they were the antithesis of each other, feel free to prove me wrong on this!!

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

Obviously you didn't witness what happened since 2014 in term of corruption :

Police? Na

Army?? Na

Administration? Na

Building Construction and Management? Na

What did they do so far?

Also this constitution is basically a way to make the army coups a legal tool and keep the existing establishment in place.

If only the people could see this for what it is...certainly not fight corruption

[scorecard]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

So you are apposed to any reconciliation ? You want hostilities to continue ?

Question: please define reconciliation in the current context.

- What would it look like?

- what would be the actions to achieve reconciliation?

etc...

[Emster23]

Hey army, you guys are supposed to be CARETAKERS until some new improved democracy is implemented. So keep your traps shut and stay in the barracks. Let the politicians of all stripes discuss the issues and people decide. Nah.... keep trying to keep a lid on it. One way or another it will blow up in your collective faces. Politics is always about conflict, different interests vying for power. Elections and such are like a pressure relief valve. I see little to no hope for the future of Thailand.

[Srikcir]

"The students wanted to tell the people what this charter draft intends to do, which is mainly about [what the army has told them to say]"

Human Drones from the Army of One - General Prayut.

[MZurf]

So it is ok for the Reds to physically attack anyone that disagrees with their viewpoint. It is OK for them to pay people to protest.

But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?

"But volunteers cannot go out and try and educate the masses about a new draft charter?"

Please, pleeease tell me you're not so naive that actually you believe these student "volunteers" are sent out to educate the population on the charter in a fair and balanced manner!

Pretty please!!!

[JAG]

Reds in a panic because their decades of corruption income stream is coming to an end - if only the people could see it for what it is, maybe they do lol

I have no problem about using RorDor students to spread the word.

But the big reservation I have is that in order to spread the word and encourage people to vote for it they, the people encouraging people to vote, need to have at least have an idea of what is in the charter; there needs to be some belief on the students part in the strength of the Charter.

Now most RorDor students are around the 16-17 year old mark, they would struggle to read and understand the complexities of a 50 page novel, let alone a draft constitution. [i'll ignore the fact they they are also too young to vote]

So in essence the army are giving the students the mantra (vote for the charter, vote for the charter, it is good, it is good) but their little soldiers have sod all idea nor interest in what they are encouraging people to vote for or why its good?

Doesn't sound very open or transparent method. In fact is sounds like a decidedly 'red shirted type tactic'. Fighting fire, with fire perhaps, but that type of logic usually results in a single bloody huge bonfire.

OK, so you approve of the Junta deploying school children who are Army Cadets to go around, in uniform explaining the Juntas idea of what the future constitution of the country should be, and attempting to influence the people into voting for it.

I normally try very hard to accept that people on this forum have different views, and although I will strenuously argue against them, I try not to use phrases like "make me want to puke", but enthusiasm for this idea, and trying to justify it as these two posters have...

[bangrak]

Can you imagine? Young guys in uniform penetrating into red territories, going to villages and districts totally, forcefully, coloured in red, bringing information differing from the obligate UDD propaganda as only source, and you can't chase them away, can't use violence on them, because they wear a protective army uniform, absolutely not, can't let that happen, is it...?

(I don't say the information the cadets would bring would be unbiased, but I say the UDD's (des-)information is strongly biased, so, why not offer 'the people' some diversity in the biased stuff they get, for them to think(!) and, possibly(?) make a personal(!) choice, pro or con?)