Yingluck ‘Confused’ by Signals on Rice Subsidy

[Baerboxer]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

ahhh Thaksin

Ah, Mr Lanaguy, how I've missed you......how was your trip to Dubai? Profitable was it?

Obviously the "fix" is in, the securities have changed hands and all is well with the world again! Don't you just love the LOS?

We shall never know all the behind to scenes deals that have and will be done.

Whatever the verdict she won't be harshly punished other than financially.

But the real cost, that her brother and the family will have to cough up will never be known. One thing for sure, he'll work like hell to get it back as soon as he can and by whatever means necessary.

LOS - the land of deja vu.

[Eric Loh]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money[/quote

The rubber scheme paid higher than the market price and was called a subsidy. What's so different Sherlock?

but, but, but, but.............

Any excuse.

Are you suggesting the rice scheme was well run and that all the money went to deserving farmers Eric?

Was the rubber scheme a budgeted subsidy? Now was the rice scheme a budgeted subsidy? See the difference Watson?

.

So we agreed that both schemes were subsidies and not a but but but comparison. Well done. Well there are differences. One make no attempt to use tax payer money while the other tried to be self funding and pay off the farmers when rice are sold. Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

[Jonmarleesco]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

She wasn't in charge, remember?

As for the scheme, itself: fraud? Possibly. Corruption? Almost certainly. A huge fiscal blunder? Definitely.

[Wilsonandson]

For all that is said and done she is one good looking woman

Tickled the fancy of many.

[Rhys]

i swear i thought he pulled out..

[tuanku]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

"Lost" xx million merely means xx million is now recirculating in the economy, paying off debts and providing necessities for people whom the Government are obliged to assist one way or the other anyway. The mismanagement part of it means a chunk of this was siphoned off by individuals higher up the chain who didn't need or deserve it, as happens in practically any subsidy process. However the money that did get through to the farmers was helpful to both them and the economy as a whole.

Very little reached the farmers. And the poorest farmers were excluded from taking part anyway.

Without the accounts, that have never been made available, no one knows where the money went or how much was siphoned. But I bet a considerable about went to already wealthy people and has been transferred offshore.

The investigation seems to indicate that this was not a particularly bad scheme in that sense - but unless the accounts are published as you say it is a matter of conjecture informed by political leanings.

[metisdead]

A post containing offensive language has been removed.

[ResandePohm]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

You obviously have not followed the debate concerning the rice scheme. The rice scheme was intended to be self financing and not a subsidy. A subsidy is budgeted for in any country. There was no budget for the rice scheme which was also open to corruption and abuse due total mismanagement by YL. It ended up costing the country billions so I personally cannot see how it could possibly have benefited the country in any way.

Further it was stated that it would help the poor farmers. This was not the case. Those that benefited were the rich farmers and the storage owners. Poor farmers did not qualify for the scheme. If you think otherwise i defy you to show me one, just one, poor farmer that had any benefit from this corrupt and mismanaged scheme.

[ginjag]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

ahhh Thaksin

Only the brother, controlling from far away, by a multitude of channels. Yingluck placed in the PM position for this purpose.

In denial as usual. By the smiley you think he had nothing to do with PTP--Yingluck --and the dung he created.

He is such a super brother she is taking the flack for him--lovely man

[rixalex]

Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

Funny how readily on this occasion you are quoting the words of a junta connected source as if they now carry some weight for you.

[Wilsonandson]

Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

Funny how readily on this occasion you are quoting the words of a junta connected source as if they now carry some weight for you.

Funny how the rice scheme is now being portrayed as the reason for the reform process and change of government when actually the protests were originally caused by?

Amnesty? The return of Thaksin? I'm sure that the victimization of YL is real and the rice deal is an easy scape goat for bringing down democracy and installing a framework to keep it controlled for the near distant future.

IMO, just an observation.

[glenmohr]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money

Ok Gunna I accept that you did not like the rice scheme, so what is your opinion of the rubber scheme whereby the junta pays the rubber farmers an above market price for their rubber because those farmers support the Yellow shirted appointed junta? Is it not politics everywhere that the government of the day in any country supports those that put the government into power??

[Wilsonandson]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money

Ok Gunna I accept that you did not like the rice scheme, so what is your opinion of the rubber scheme whereby the junta pays the rubber farmers an above market price for their rubber because those farmers support the Yellow shirted appointed junta? Is it not politics everywhere that the government of the day in any country supports those that put the government into power??

So according to you, Thailand is divided by it's natural resources? The red shirts have the rice, i.e Thaksin and co. And the yellow shirts have the rubber i.e Suthep and friends? I'm starting to see the big picture. Rice vs Rubber.

[loppylugs1]

Yingluck could beat me to death with a rusty iron bar and I would not raise a whimper

[scorecard]

Yingluck could beat me to death with a rusty iron bar and I would not raise a whimper

Another insightful constructive post adding value to the actual discussion. How clever indeed.

[Baerboxer]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not

'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When

deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

@Bobo, As far as I am aware only New Zealand of the agricultural nations does not have farm subsidies.

1) Please show me how it is ever possible for any country to make money out of farm subsidies.

However they do other beneficial things such as prevent the depopulation of the rural areas and reduce the over population of Bangkok. These factors should not be taken so lightly.

How many times do you have to be told - The Rice Scam was never a subsidy, even PTP will admit that. It was an off budget vote buying scam, ie a bribe to the farmers to get PTP elected, using the money for the Thai treasury. The aim was always to get an amnesty for all the criminals, and in the end benefited very few small rice farmers. Rice millers, rice traders, rice warehouses and rich land owners made most of the money[/quote

The rubber scheme paid higher than the market price and was called a subsidy. What's so different Sherlock?

but, but, but, but.............

Any excuse.

Are you suggesting the rice scheme was well run and that all the money went to deserving farmers Eric?

Was the rubber scheme a budgeted subsidy? Now was the rice scheme a budgeted subsidy? See the difference Watson?

.

So we agreed that both schemes were subsidies and not a but but but comparison. Well done. Well there are differences. One make no attempt to use tax payer money while the other tried to be self funding and pay off the farmers when rice are sold. Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

I know English isn't your first language Eric, so I'll avoid smart arse comments.

The point I was making was that whilst the rubber subsidy was a budgeted agricultural subsidy, the rice scheme wasn't. It was deliberately kept out of the budget so as not to use budget funds or have to be scrutinized by parliament. That gave PTP a free hand and allowed them to not have to publicly produce accounts. If you remember they kept it all a veiled secret. Guess why they did that?

You can read the World Bank report which estimates how much went to the farmers, a tiny %. Where the rest went is anyone's guess, and for sure we will never know. Nothing personal but I take the World Bank's word rather than any unsupported press comment here, or your's sport.

Some of my in-laws benefited. But they had to wait several months to receive overdue payments, and take out loans to cover the period.

The scheme was riddled with corruption - from mismanagement to intentional, and the self appointed chair did nothing to tackle that, simply living in denial whilst not bothering to attend any meetings.

[rixalex]

Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

Funny how readily on this occasion you are quoting the words of a junta connected source as if they now carry some weight for you.

Funny how the rice scheme is now being portrayed as the reason for the reform process and change of government when actually the protests were originally caused by?

Amnesty? The return of Thaksin? I'm sure that the victimization of YL is real and the rice deal is an easy scape goat for bringing down democracy and installing a framework to keep it controlled for the near distant future.

IMO, just an observation.

I'm sure that the victimization of YL is real

If you really do think that Yingluck is a victim then you clearly have no idea of the level of suffering and hardship there is to be found in and around Thailand; suffering and hardship that in some cases caused or at the very least exacerbated by government actions or inactions, cock-ups or incompetence, greed or corruption.

The rice scheme is not the first example of the common man being screwed over, and it won't be the last, but to deny that that is what it was, and to now paint the chairperson of that scheme as being the victim in all of this, as she whiles away the hours leisurely tending to her organic garden in the grounds of one of her multi-million baht mansions, is ludicrous.

Sure Yingluck is under a bit of scrutiny and has had to endure having some accusations leveled against her, but when her fugitive brother asked her if she would run the country for him as his proxy - in spite of her having no political experience whatsoever - and help him to push through an amnesty that would free him up of past crimes, i could have told her then that at some time in the future she might find herself in this sort of sticky situation of having to answer some tricky questions.

But just how bad really is the situation of this "victim" of yours? Will she ever have to work again in her life? No. Will she ever have to worry about having enough money to send her child to university, buy clothes, food, pay bills? Of course not. And will she ever face actual punishment for anything she may have done wrong, like heading up this rice scheme and refusing to scrap it whilst millions and millions of public money went down the drown? Of course not either. She could have gone a wild mass killing spree and it wouldn't be any different, because she, just like all the rich elite here, will never have to face the sort of justice the common man here has to face; will never spend a day behind bars. She doesn't event have to trouble herself with going to court majority of the time - can just send along one of her lackey's to make her excuses and to delay things by another few months. Delay, delay, delay. Worst comes to the worst, she can just do what her brother did - jump on a private jet and go live in a multi-dollar mansion in the desert.

"Victim" my left foot.

[Strangebrew]

She is growing organs?

[billd766]

confused? indeed as am I 'beneficial to the nation'? at last the truth comes out and it's obvious to all that she did what she thought was right (but it turned out badly as do many decisions by governments around the world)

but then 'potentially fraudulent'? everything is 'potentially fraudulent' but I'm pretty sure she will be found innocent of fraud claims and some TVF posters will look pretty dumb

good news for her anyway

There is no way this was 'beneficial to the nation' - it was a cynical ploy by Thaksin to woo the rural voters and to drum up more of his ruinous populism. Setting up a scam like this, where there was reported corruption from top to bottom, paying 100% over the world market value for rice is not 'beneficial to the nation'. This was politics, pure and simple, bad politics at that. The Thai Finance Ministry stated the scheme lost $15.8 billion - now how is that a benefit? When deputy auditor-general Ms Prapee Angkinanda blew the whistle on the rampant corruption, she was attacked by the Yingluck government.

ahhh Thaksin

Well Yingluck in Thaksin's own words was his clone.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/8546865/Former-Thai-PM-Thaksin-Shinawatra-supports-clone-sister.html

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0813c6f8-63d7-11e3-b70d-00144feabdc0.html#axzz40DYkbzhV

[rixalex]

She is growing organs?

Yes. Her brother is in desperate need of a pair as his have gone missing, and since Yingluck always gets the plum jobs, she was assigned the task of sorting him out with some new ones.

[candide]

but, but, but, but.............

Any excuse.

Are you suggesting the rice scheme was well run and that all the money went to deserving farmers Eric?

Was the rubber scheme a budgeted subsidy? Now was the rice scheme a budgeted subsidy? See the difference Watson?

.

So we agreed that both schemes were subsidies and not a but but but comparison. Well done. Well there are differences. One make no attempt to use tax payer money while the other tried to be self funding and pay off the farmers when rice are sold. Well run it was not but if you read recent headlines it did benefitted the farmers. Not from me but from the investigating panel by the junta. I will take their word rather than you. Nothing personal mate.

I know English isn't your first language Eric, so I'll avoid smart arse comments.

The point I was making was that whilst the rubber subsidy was a budgeted agricultural subsidy, the rice scheme wasn't. It was deliberately kept out of the budget so as not to use budget funds or have to be scrutinized by parliament. That gave PTP a free hand and allowed them to not have to publicly produce accounts. If you remember they kept it all a veiled secret. Guess why they did that?

You can read the World Bank report which estimates how much went to the farmers, a tiny %. Where the rest went is anyone's guess, and for sure we will never know. Nothing personal but I take the World Bank's word rather than any unsupported press comment here, or your's sport.

Some of my in-laws benefited. But they had to wait several months to receive overdue payments, and take out loans to cover the period.

The scheme was riddled with corruption - from mismanagement to intentional, and the self appointed chair did nothing to tackle that, simply living in denial whilst not bothering to attend any meetings.

Again the same distorted argument. The World Bank never wrote that only a tiny % went to the farmers.

http://www.worldbank.org/content/dam/Worldbank/document/TEM_Dec_2012.pdf

If I remember well, this assertion was initially based on an (innocent?) confusion between "what went to very poor farmers" instead of "what went to farmers"..

So your argument doesn't get any support from the worldbank report.

But of course if your assertion comes from another report than the one currently available on the Internet by googling "worldbank rice pledging scheme thailand", please don't hesitate to quote the exact sentence and link.

Edited February 15, 2016 by candide

[scorecard]

She is growing organs?

Yes. Her brother is in desperate need of a pair as his have gone missing, and since Yingluck always gets the plum jobs, she was assigned the task of sorting him out with some new ones.

Gone missing - never had any in the first place.

[candide]

She is growing organs?

Yes. Her brother is in desperate need of a pair as his have gone missing, and since Yingluck always gets the plum jobs, she was assigned the task of sorting him out with some new ones.

Gone missing - never had any in the first place.

Any source to support your assertion?