TM30 Experience

[CMBob]

As I need to do the annual retirement extension in a couple of months and as I read a report or two here (a month or two back) that some extenders where being asked why a TM30 hadn't been filed for them, I asked my landlord if he ever filed one for me (I've rented the same townhouse for 4 years). He said no but showed some interest so today I accompanied him to the Immigration Office (old location near the airport) where we were quickly shuffled to the very back building (which says "Investigations" or something like that over the door). In short order, the form was filed out, they took a copy of my passport photo page and a copy of our current lease contract, attached the "Notice of Receipt" to my passport, and fined the owner (my landlord) 1,600 baht. It was all pleasant enough but I'm not sure I would have pressed the issue if I would have thought the landlord would be fined.

Also:

(1) The Immigration dude made it clear that a new TM30 has to be filed every time I come back into the country. When I told him I took a 2-day trip to Burma in October and the landlord didn't even know I was gone, he basically said he didn't care and that a new TM30 should have been filed when I returned. He also didn't budge on that point when I mentioned that all my 90-day reports for the last 4 years have had the same (current) address on the forms and even the arrival cards have had the same address.

(2) He told me that I could fill out and file the TM30 myself - and do that by dropping it off in person at that same office or I could do it online (I did ask about mailing but he said a clear "no" to that). When I mentioned that the form has a spot on it for the owner (landlord) to sign, he said not to worry about that and it could be filed without any signature.

(3) When asked about timing for the filing of the form, he said it was okay to file it within seven (7) days of returning to Thailand.

When I next jump back into the country, I'll attempt to file it online and, if that doesn't work, I guess I'll go file one at the old office near the airport. A bit more hassle but easier for me to do it than to bother my landlord about it (he lives in another province).

[Sparkles]

Thanks for the report.Its a load of nonsense having to file a TM30 and I like his "dont worry about the owner signing"

That's exactly how important it is.Hope your rent doesn't go up !

[MESmith]

Thanks for the report.Its a load of nonsense having to file a TM30 and I like his "dont worry about the owner signing"

That's exactly how important it is.Hope your rent doesn't go up !

That 1600 baht will have to be recovered some how. Might be cheaper in the long run to reimburse the landlord

[Tywais]

Added this topic now to the pinned reference as it is becoming more common - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/883112-chiang-mai-immigration-topics-information/

[Tywais]

"When I next jump back into the country, I'll attempt to file it online and, if that doesn't work, I guess I'll go file one at the old office near the airport."

If you are referring to the TM30 then you can't file online, that is for hotels, condos, etc. that have been given an online sign in account number and password.

BTW, the main immigration website does indicate filing by registered mail is allowed. But of course when has CM immigration followed the standards?

Notification of residence of foreigners for businesses

According to section 38 of the 1979 immigration act, "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the kingdom legally, must notify the local immigration authorities within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the foreign national." If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station. In Bangkok the notification is made to the Immigration Bureau. The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30.
The notification of residence of foreign nationals within 24 hours can be made in a number of ways to make the notification as convenient as possible:

• In person at the respective office, or
• Through an authorised person at the respective office, or
• By registered mail, or
• Via internet.

http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

[MESmith]

Does it have to be filed even if you've done a 90 day border run on a multi entry visa? Officially, you've left the country, but still stayed at same address everyday.

[Thailand]

Does it have to be filed even if you've done a 90 day border run on a multi entry visa? Officially, you've left the country, but still stayed at same address everyday.

Without doubt a definite yes no or maybe.

[NancyL]

There are reports of landlord/renters going to Immigration Promenada to do what CMBob did today and not being fined, even though the renter had lived in the landlord's house for many years. Also, the Imm. officials at Prom. aren't falsely telling small landlords that they can file TM30s on-line. As mentioned, that's for hotels, guesthouses, etc. Our condo office is set-up to do it and it the one lady in the office that is able to do that had to make a couple trips out to Immigration before everything was running smoothly and the Imm. system was accepting the TM30 reports she was trying to file.

[MESmith]

Does it have to be filed even if you've done a 90 day border run on a multi entry visa? Officially, you've left the country, but still stayed at same address everyday.

Without doubt a definite yes no or maybe.

That's what I thought, too. Possibly...

[scottiejohn]

What happens/who fills in what, when you stay with your girlfriend for three weeks at her rented apartment and that is the address on the arrival card.

[Dante99]

What happens/who fills in what, when you stay with your girlfriend for three weeks at her rented apartment and that is the address on the arrival card.

You are screwed.

[TheAppletons]

Yet another reason to never - EVER - go to Chiang Mai Immigration. (Yes, it's possible, without breaking any laws/regulations.)

[scottiejohn]

What happens/who fills in what, when you stay with your girlfriend for three weeks at her rented apartment and that is the address on the arrival card.

You are screwed.

Your comment may well be the point of the visit, but the point of my question was related to TM30 or what other form/procedures should the visitor/girlfriend/landlord follow to keep within the law. I am not interested in who gets away with what by devious or other means.

I will restate the question.

What should a visitor staying with a a person who is renting a room and who has used that address on their arrival form do. Is the onus on the visitor, the friend (renter) or the apartment/room owner?

I am sure there are a few people who would like to know the correct answer without going of on tangents.

[Dante99]

Nothing is the answer to your first question written without a ?

the responsibility for filing the report is on the "house master" or some similar obtuse term, so it is your girlfriend who has a lease most likely but it may be the landlord, things change from moment to moment

the responsibility is not the visitor's but as posted on this forum recently it can sometimes be filed by the visitor

if you a do a search and read further you will find this information repeatedly

[CMBob]

If you are referring to the TM30 then you can't file online, that is for hotels, condos, etc. that have been given an online sign in account number and password.

BTW, the main immigration website does indicate filing by registered mail is allowed. But of course when has CM immigration followed the standards?

That's what I thought - that only big outfits could file a TM30 online - but that's what the guy told me (I was surprised he said that so I asked him again - he spoke decent English - and he clearly said that even I could file it online). I doubt it but I'll somehow try to do it when I return in the future and report back here ONLY if I'm successful. And, about the mailing, I had him repeat that too....no mailing the TM30 according to him.

[scottiejohn]

Nothing is the answer to your first question written without a ?

the responsibility for filing the report is on the "house master" or some similar obtuse term, so it is your girlfriend who has a lease most likely but it may be the landlord, things change from moment to moment

the responsibility is not the visitor's but as posted on this forum recently it can sometimes be filed by the visitor

if you a do a search and read further you will find this information repeatedly

Tywais has already pinned this to the major Subject/Topic because it is on-going! Historical information is not of any use. Facts on what is required now is what I am requesting on behalf of myself and others.

I will restate my question with further amplification for those who are interested in this subject. I am asking about private residence not Hotel/Condo/guest house/paid apartments etc.

Question.

What are the CM immigration rules in force at this time that a visitor staying with a person who is renting a room and who has used that address on their arrival form to do? Is the onus on the visitor, the friend (renter) or the apartment/room owner?

Pedants who seem excessively concerned with minor grammatical details or pointless comments, rather than those with technical knowledge, need not respond!

For the grammar police; please note that tho a punctuation mark or two was missing from my previous post you missed the missing f in of!

[HullyGully]

My understand is the 'Housemaster" / 'Owner' should report on TM30

[scottiejohn]

Just to clarify my question above .

Tywais post with the relevant law extract about TM 30 reporting quotes the Hotel act. The extract says; "The notification of residence of foreign nationals is made by the manager of licensed hotels according to the hotel act, owners of guesthouses, mansions, apartments and rented houses using the form TM. 30"

My question is whether this "Hotel act" applies to the private renting sector where a person is staying in privately rented accommodation rent free with their friend.

The wording appears ambiguous, to me, and if it does apply to the private sector how do we apply it today in CM.

Edited February 15, 2016 by scottiejohn

[HullyGully]

Yes it does apply

[Tywais]

This is a quote from Ubonjoe

**********************************

There seems to be somebody misinterpreting section 38 of the immigration act. The TM30 report is only needed once when the alien moves into the residence.

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

There is certainly no requirement to report every time they leave the residence for more than 24 hours. I think there is misunderstanding or perhaps misinformation about what immigration is asking for.

************************************

Possessor of the residence would be the person renting the property and was clarified in other TM30 topics in the Visa forum.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/877875-tm30-after-hotel-stay/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/873945-thai-wife-has-to-register-falang-husbands-whereabouts/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/871613-house-owner-report-to-immigration/

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/871350-tm30s-and-visa-extensions-nation-wide/

[scottiejohn]

Thank you Tywais.

I have not had time to check out the links you have provided but I believe I now have the answer(s) I asked for.

Just one bit of extra clarification.

The OP went to the old (airport) Immigration site but Nancy L suggests the new Prom site. To save a lot of searching does anyone know which is the best option?

[MESmith]

Thank you Tywais.

I have not had time to check out the links you have provided but I believe I now have the answer(s) I asked for.

Just one bit of extra clarification.

The OP went to the old (airport) Immigration site but Nancy L suggests the new Prom site. To save a lot of searching does anyone know which is the best option?

People get fined at the airport office, including my wife. I've not heard of fines at Promenada.

[rawhod]

Thank you Tywais.

I have not had time to check out the links you have provided but I believe I now have the answer(s) I asked for.

Just one bit of extra clarification.

The OP went to the old (airport) Immigration site but Nancy L suggests the new Prom site. To save a lot of searching does anyone know which is the best option?

People get fined at the airport office, including my wife. I've not heard of fines at Promenada.

We went to the Immigration Office near the Airport to submit the TM30 last year. We were directed to the "Investigations office" at the rear of the site. We had been in our new house for 1 year without reporting (I have been here with my Thai wife for 6 years without reporting).

They accepted the report together with copies of our Tabian Baan, my wife's id card and my passport.

Processed in 5 mins.

No fine was imposed.

[NancyL]

There is a desk set up at Imm. Prom. for accepting TM28/TM30 reports and no accounts here on Thai visa of anyone being fined for submitting late reports there. The officers at Imm. Prom. are working in the open and I've never seen them collect fines in the times I've been at Imm. Prom. -- and I do try to watch everything going on. Actually, officers at that desk are very helpful in explaining a confusing process to landlord/renter pairs who come for service.

Many reports of fines at the airport office. At the airport office the reports are submitted in their "investigations" buildings behind the building that we normally use. That should tell you something. Those dudes are out for blood! Plus their work done in a closed environment where no one can observe what is going on. All the better for collecting "fines".

[rawhod]

There is a desk set up at Imm. Prom. for accepting TM28/TM30 reports and no accounts here on Thai visa of anyone being fined for submitting late reports there. The officers at Imm. Prom. are working in the open and I've never seen them collect fines in the times I've been at Imm. Prom. -- and I do try to watch everything going on. Actually, officers at that desk are very helpful in explaining a confusing process to landlord/renter pairs who come for service.

Many reports of fines at the airport office. At the airport office the reports are submitted in their "investigations" buildings behind the building that we normally use. That should tell you something. Those dudes are out for blood! Plus their work done in a closed environment where no one can observe what is going on. All the better for collecting "fines".

Where are the "Many reports of fines at the airport office"?

As I reported, my wife was NOT fined...

Be careful Nancy, once again making veiled insinuations.

Edited February 16, 2016 by rawhod

[Tywais]

There is a desk set up at Imm. Prom. for accepting TM28/TM30 reports and no accounts here on Thai visa of anyone being fined for submitting late reports there. The officers at Imm. Prom. are working in the open and I've never seen them collect fines in the times I've been at Imm. Prom. -- and I do try to watch everything going on. Actually, officers at that desk are very helpful in explaining a confusing process to landlord/renter pairs who come for service.

Many reports of fines at the airport office. At the airport office the reports are submitted in their "investigations" buildings behind the building that we normally use. That should tell you something. Those dudes are out for blood! Plus their work done in a closed environment where no one can observe what is going on. All the better for collecting "fines".

Where are the "Many reports of fines at the airport office"?

As I reported, my wife was NOT fined...

Be careful Nancy, once again making veiled insinuations.

You can start looking through this topic and the reports of fines being levied. Probably scattered around other topics also but don't have time to wade through them. - TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extensions

[NancyL]

There is a desk set up at Imm. Prom. for accepting TM28/TM30 reports and no accounts here on Thai visa of anyone being fined for submitting late reports there. The officers at Imm. Prom. are working in the open and I've never seen them collect fines in the times I've been at Imm. Prom. -- and I do try to watch everything going on. Actually, officers at that desk are very helpful in explaining a confusing process to landlord/renter pairs who come for service.

Many reports of fines at the airport office. At the airport office the reports are submitted in their "investigations" buildings behind the building that we normally use. That should tell you something. Those dudes are out for blood! Plus their work done in a closed environment where no one can observe what is going on. All the better for collecting "fines".

Where are the "Many reports of fines at the airport office"?

As I reported, my wife was NOT fined...

Be careful Nancy, once again making veiled insinuations.

You can start looking through this topic and the reports of fines being levied. Probably scattered around other topics also but don't have time to wade through them. - TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extensions

And rawhod, I'd suggest you look thru the other Imm. threads, too, because some people have reported TM 30/TM 28 activity there. I think you'll find that there hasn't been a report of anyone being fined for a late TM30/T28 report at Imm. Prom.

And I think you should retract the accusation that I'm making veiled insinuations. I'm reporting observations and experiences of myself and credible reports from others.

[rawhod]

There is a desk set up at Imm. Prom. for accepting TM28/TM30 reports and no accounts here on Thai visa of anyone being fined for submitting late reports there. The officers at Imm. Prom. are working in the open and I've never seen them collect fines in the times I've been at Imm. Prom. -- and I do try to watch everything going on. Actually, officers at that desk are very helpful in explaining a confusing process to landlord/renter pairs who come for service.

Many reports of fines at the airport office. At the airport office the reports are submitted in their "investigations" buildings behind the building that we normally use. That should tell you something. Those dudes are out for blood! Plus their work done in a closed environment where no one can observe what is going on. All the better for collecting "fines".

Where are the "Many reports of fines at the airport office"?

As I reported, my wife was NOT fined...

Be careful Nancy, once again making veiled insinuations.

You can start looking through this topic and the reports of fines being levied. Probably scattered around other topics also but don't have time to wade through them. - TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extensions

And rawhod, I'd suggest you look thru the other Imm. threads, too, because some people have reported TM 30/TM 28 activity there. I think you'll find that there hasn't been a report of anyone being fined for a late TM30/T28 report at Imm. Prom.

And I think you should retract the accusation that I'm making veiled insinuations. I'm reporting observations and experiences of myself and credible reports from others.

The veiled insinuation was in the word "fines" being in quotation marks. Had you omitted the quotation marks there would have been no veiled insinuation..IMHO

I can find 5 fines imposed at Airport immigration in the thread TM28/TM30 avoiding fines if on extension (in 186 posts), all of which were receipted.

[NancyL]

And no "fines", "penalties" or "charges" at Imm. Prom. either, in all your research, rawhod? Geesh, to think some people believe I have a vendetta against Imm. Prom. and here I am defending them.

All I'm saying is the Imm. Prom. is the place to go for filing your TM30, esp. if it's late if you want to avoid any charges. There is no wait time for this service there and they're very pleasant about it.

Plus you can enjoy lunch at Dukes or Ragu! Or do what NorthernJohn would do and see a movie. Can't do that at Imm. Airport.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

The way to avoid fines would be to wait until your next entry into the country, with fresh Departure card, and do it then.