rooster59 Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Protests planned across US to back Apple in battle with FBISAN FRANCISCO (AP) — Protesters are preparing to assemble in more than 30 cities to lash out at the FBI for obtaining a court order that requires Apple to make it easier to unlock an encrypted iPhone used by a gunman in December's mass murders in California.The protests organized by the Internet rights group Fight for the Future are scheduled to occur Tuesday outside Apple stores the U.S., the U.K., Hong Kong and Germany.The U.S. protests will be in cities scattered across more than 20 states, including in New York, Chicago, San Francisco and Washington, where protesters plan to express their discontent outside the FBI's headquarters.The gatherings will come a week after the FBI went to court to force Apple to weaken the security built into most iPhones to help a terrorism investigation in San Bernardino, California. The FBI wants the Apple to remove a feature that erases the information stored on an iPhone after 10 unsuccessful attempts to enter a password, preventing unauthorized users from accessing the device.The iPhone that the FBI is trying to examine was used by Syed Farook, who along with his wife killed 14 people in December.Apple is fighting the court order issued in the case, arguing that the special software sought by the FBI could be used to break into millions of other iPhones. The FBI contends Apple is exaggerating the security risks of complying with the court order in a marketing ploy aimed at selling more iPhones.Fight for the Future believes Apple's concerns are warranted and is hoping the protests will persuade the Obama administration to take a stand against the way the FBI is trying to break into Farook's iPhone, said Evan Greer, the group's campaign director.The White House so far has stood behind the FBI in its battle with Apple Inc. -- (c) Associated Press 2016-01-21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allane Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 While other companies may have customers, only tech companies have disciples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandbox Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 While other companies may have customers, only tech companies have disciples. Appostles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Hand it over to McAfee. I've never seen a guy eat a shoe on live TV. You'll have to exercise your Google skills if you want more on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 (edited) How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. Edited February 21, 2016 by klauskunkel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaiWest Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. The minute that software exists, every country in the world is going to demand that Apple give them access to it as a condition of doing business in that country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Oh dear! Somethings are best left undercover. This could all be done on the QT without broadcasting it from the roof tops Foolish to push Apple publically into a corner where they had no choice for obvious reasons to state that their equipment is secure and cannot be broken into..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
klauskunkel Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. The minute that software exists, every country in the world is going to demand that Apple give them access to it as a condition of doing business in that country. I inferred from the article that the software exists.: "...arguing that the special software..." I could be wrong, of course... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Usernames Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. The minute that software exists, every country in the world is going to demand that Apple give them access to it as a condition of doing business in that country. Apple apparently already has given accesss--to China. http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-china-security-checks-obama-criticism-2015-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. The minute that software exists, every country in the world is going to demand that Apple give them access to it as a condition of doing business in that country. Apple apparently already has given access--to China. http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-china-security-checks-obama-criticism-2015-3 To use a safe as an analogy, there's a huge difference between showing you how my safe works, and showing you how to crack one open. Apple has shown the Chinese government how their OS works and how it keeps data safe (ostensibly, to prove the NSA doesn't have a back door already). They haven't shown them how to defeat the encryption. They claim they don't have that ability and they're refusing to create it. My question to the US government is whether we're requiring the same from Chinese tech firms like Huawei as a condition of doing business in the USA? If not, why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWMcMurray Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. The minute that software exists, every country in the world is going to demand that Apple give them access to it as a condition of doing business in that country. Apple apparently already has given access--to China. http://uk.businessinsider.com/apple-china-security-checks-obama-criticism-2015-3 To use a safe as an analogy, there's a huge difference between showing you how my safe works, and showing you how to crack one open. Apple has shown the Chinese government how their OS works and how it keeps data safe (ostensibly, to prove the NSA doesn't have a back door already). They haven't shown them how to defeat the encryption. They claim they don't have that ability and they're refusing to create it. My question to the US government is whether we're requiring the same from Chinese tech firms like Huawei as a condition of doing business in the USA? If not, why not? Aren't the other phone companies using android or Microsoft ? I always understood that those are already Swiss cheese... And that was why there are always viruses on those software but never hear of any viruses on Apple stuff? Not an expert ... Just a layman's perception.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Aren't the other phone companies using android or Microsoft ? I always understood that those are already Swiss cheese...And that was why there are always viruses on those software but never hear of any viruses on Apple stuff? Not an expert ... Just a layman's perception.. On that very topic, about a year old so I have no clue where they are today. http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-backs-off-default-encryption-plans-2015-3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Aren't the other phone companies using android or Microsoft ? I always understood that those are already Swiss cheese... And that was why there are always viruses on those software but never hear of any viruses on Apple stuff? Not an expert ... Just a layman's perception.. Neither of those two statements is true, but you are right, that's the public perception. Did you not see all of those wonderful pictures of Hollywood celebs in their birthday suits? The ones that came from the iCloud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Aren't the other phone companies using android or Microsoft ? I always understood that those are already Swiss cheese...And that was why there are always viruses on those software but never hear of any viruses on Apple stuff? Not an expert ... Just a layman's perception.. On that very topic, about a year old so I have no clue where they are today. http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-backs-off-default-encryption-plans-2015-3 They haven't made it mandatory but it's been an option for a long time. My Note 4 is encrypted. I can't say that it's a slow performer, because I encrypted it when I got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
impulse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 On that very topic, about a year old so I have no clue where they are today. http://uk.businessinsider.com/google-backs-off-default-encryption-plans-2015-3 They haven't made it mandatory but it's been an option for a long time. My Note 4 is encrypted. I can't say that it's a slow performer, because I encrypted it when I got it. Isn't mandatory encryption one of the foundations of Apple Pay, which is supposed to be one of the up and coming sources of $$$ billions in revenue for Apple? Seems like "Android Pay" would be at a big disadvantage in the mad grab for what's in our back pockets if they can't roll out mandatory encryption and have customers accept it. Apple makes it sound like it's about protecting their users, but it's really about protecting their revenue stream. Their users get protected as an unintended consequence. Kind of like that Error 53 thingy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit! "Which from what I have read is bullshit!" It only sounds to you as Bovine excrement because you don't understand a basic fact once infinite attempts are allowed, a simple algorithm would allow infinite password generation to be tried until the correct one is generated. How long do you think it would take a super computer to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanukjim Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Scrxw the FBI as it would be just one more secret for them to lose after Apple gives them the codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rancid Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Aren't the other phone companies using android or Microsoft ? I always understood that those are already Swiss cheese... And that was why there are always viruses on those software but never hear of any viruses on Apple stuff? Not an expert ... Just a layman's perception.. Neither of those two statements is true, but you are right, that's the public perception. Did you not see all of those wonderful pictures of Hollywood celebs in their birthday suits? The ones that came from the iCloud? Ha ha, celebrities only have their little porno flicks "accidentally" released when they are in need of some publicity. Then they are shocked and outraged to garner some more... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 How about this: In the presence of expert FBI personnel and the judge, Apple technician applies that "special software" and unlocks the iphone in question, then they remove the software. Everybody happy. 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit! "Which from what I have read is bullshit!"It only sounds to you as Bovine excrement because you don't understand a basic fact once infinite attempts are allowed, a simple algorithm would allow infinite password generation to be tried until the correct one is generated. How long do you think it would take a super computer to do that? So as I said it's not a back door. Do YOU possess a supercomputer? I certainly don't! Any one still using anything prior to IOS 7 don't have this function of delete! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit! "Which from what I have read is bullshit!"It only sounds to you as Bovine excrement because you don't understand a basic fact once infinite attempts are allowed, a simple algorithm would allow infinite password generation to be tried until the correct one is generated. How long do you think it would take a super computer to do that? So as I said it's not a back door. Do YOU possess a supercomputer? I certainly don't! Any one still using anything prior to IOS 7 don't have this function of delete! it does not matter what we call it, it is an other way ti get in, a way to defeat the security feature. I dont think Apple and others are worried about you and me, I think they are worried about expert hackers,. I am not a hacker and I dont know if you need a supper computer, a regular computer, or a lot of slave regular computers all I know is that those who know, are worried enough to risk defying a court order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casualbiker Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1) The software require has never been written.2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied'3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!]4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end...End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning!Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit!"Which from what I have read is bullshit!"It only sounds to you as Bovine excrement because you don't understand a basic factonce infinite attempts are allowed, a simple algorithm would allow infinite password generation to be tried until the correct one is generated.How long do you think it would take a super computer to do that? So as I said it's not a back door. Do YOU possess a supercomputer? I certainly don't!Any one still using anything prior to IOS 7 don't have this function of delete! it does not matter what we call it, it is an other way ti get in, a way to defeat the security feature.I dont think Apple and others are worried about you and me, I think they are worried about expert hackers,.I am not a hacker and I dont know if you need a supper computer, a regular computer, or a lot of slave regular computersall I know is that those who know, are worried enough to risk defying a court order. considering "they" only actually need to do this lifting of the self delete on one phone. All this talk about "back door" and the software will be copied would ACTUALLY make me worry about the security at Apple! Surely they can manage to keep it in house just the same as they do on the current software! Scare tactics. Apple are protecting themselves. That's all! If they hadn't chosen to make this into a public spat. No one would have known about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 1) The software require has never been written. 2) Once it is written, it is sure to be 'copied' 3) Once 'copied' it will find it's way into the hands of all the "wrong" people! {That is assuming there are any 'right' people!] 4] The demands for Apple to repeat the task again, again, and again, will never end... End the end, they only person who wins would be all the people who should not be winning! Apple would be the ONLY ones with possession of the software. So who would "copy" it. What the FBI is wanting is basically a reversal of an operating system update that only allowed 10 entries on the password then they can use their own existing tech to force the security code. Apple are trying to imply that it is a great back door that will instantly unlock your phone. Which from what I have read is bullshit! "Which from what I have read is bullshit!"It only sounds to you as Bovine excrement because you don't understand a basic fact once infinite attempts are allowed, a simple algorithm would allow infinite password generation to be tried until the correct one is generated. How long do you think it would take a super computer to do that? So as I said it's not a back door. Do YOU possess a supercomputer? I certainly don't! Any one still using anything prior to IOS 7 don't have this function of delete! it does not matter what we call it, it is an other way ti get in, a way to defeat the security feature. I dont think Apple and others are worried about you and me, I think they are worried about expert hackers,. I am not a hacker and I dont know if you need a supper computer, a regular computer, or a lot of slave regular computers all I know is that those who know, are worried enough to risk defying a court order. considering "they" only actually need to do this lifting of the self delete on one phone. All this talk about "back door" and the software will be copied would ACTUALLY make me worry about the security at Apple! Surely they can manage to keep it in house just the same as they do on the current software! Scare tactics. Apple are protecting themselves. That's all! If they hadn't chosen to make this into a public spat. No one would have known about it! I personally don't trust the government . I think once this back door is created the government will go to the well repeatedly, and perhaps develop a drinking problem. past behavior seems to indicate. I will let you make u your own mind on the matter, If you have not done already , google the subject and see what others more suficticated on the subject have to say. "The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/02/17/apples-open-letter-to-the-fbi-annotated/?tid=a_inl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grouse Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Look, let's get real here I'm quite sure Apple would have helped IN CONFIDENCE However, get the phone over to GCHQ and quit talking about such issues publically Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Anything federal needs to be protested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 So as I said it's not a back door. Do YOU possess a supercomputer? I certainly don't!Any one still using anything prior to IOS 7 don't have this function of delete! it does not matter what we call it, it is an other way ti get in, a way to defeat the security feature. I dont think Apple and others are worried about you and me, I think they are worried about expert hackers,. I am not a hacker and I dont know if you need a supper computer, a regular computer, or a lot of slave regular computers all I know is that those who know, are worried enough to risk defying a court order. considering "they" only actually need to do this lifting of the self delete on one phone. All this talk about "back door" and the software will be copied would ACTUALLY make me worry about the security at Apple! Surely they can manage to keep it in house just the same as they do on the current software! Scare tactics. Apple are protecting themselves. That's all! If they hadn't chosen to make this into a public spat. No one would have known about it! I personally don't trust the government . I think once this back door is created the government will go to the well repeatedly, and perhaps develop a drinking problem. past behavior seems to indicate. I will let you make u your own mind on the matter, If you have not done already , google the subject and see what others more suficticated on the subject have to say. "The government suggests this tool could only be used once, on one phone. But that’s simply not true. Once created, the technique could be used over and over again, on any number of devices. In the physical world, it would be the equivalent of a master key, capable of opening hundreds of millions of locks — from restaurants and banks to stores and homes. No reasonable person would find that acceptable." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-switch/wp/2016/02/17/apples-open-letter-to-the-fbi-annotated/?tid=a_inl ^^^^ sorry for the typo of "suficticated" Should read sophisticated, and the missing "P" on Up I tried to edit it immediately after posting but the system would not allow me, It says to many quotes, even after I deleted most of the quotes Very strange. Perhaps a government conspiracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 This will be embarrassing for obama....he who does not do stupid shit.....apple should not unlock that phone...fbi needs to unlock their brains and practise better intel gathering to prevent attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirineou Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 The government claims it will be used only this instance. The question in my mind is, Is it worth the inherent danger of the development of such technique, if indeed it will be used only this one instance on this one phone for the benefit it might provide? Or does the government have ulterior motives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicog Posted February 21, 2016 Share Posted February 21, 2016 Neither of those two statements is true, but you are right, that's the public perception. Did you not see all of those wonderful pictures of Hollywood celebs in their birthday suits? The ones that came from the iCloud? Ha ha, celebrities only have their little porno flicks "accidentally" released when they are in need of some publicity. Then they are shocked and outraged to garner some more... Wrong. It was an exploit in iCloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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