48-hour strike by English junior doctors over pay and conditions

[RuamRudy]

The NHS is already tits up. It's in its death throes. It's just a matter of time. Socialism always runs out of other people's money.

How can anyone think that something is free when the taxes that sneak in from every direction drive the cost of living so high that people can't afford to live there?

Unfortunately we can't finish this conversation today because the very end hasn't arrived and the Pollyannas still think it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Well, that is until they actually need service. The cracks in the dyke just keep getting bigger.

We'll have to wait for the total collapse to finish this conversation.

Cheers.

Can you point to a better system than the NHS, or do you believe that there is no answer other than medicine to those who can afford it?

[RuamRudy]

The NHS is not socialism. It is a world wide respected institute that is considered to be one of the greatest UK accomplishments of the last century.

Sadly our government is intent on fundamentally undermining the NHS, with the ultimate goal of privatising health services in the UK entirely.

Sadly they see the US model as being the future, whereas most rational people would, I am sure, agree that for any country to consider itself progressive, it should not restrict full health care only to those who can afford it.

Agree, the NHS is something that ALL Brits should be proud of. Unfortunately it is now under threat from the proposed TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. If this comes about it will mean that the NHS will become a variation of the American health care system. And who is prepared to accept this,none other than the Conservative,Liberal,Labour parties along with the SNP, that is of course if we remain in the EU.

I fully agree with you that the NHS is under attack in general, and by the TTIP specifically, however you are incorrect to suggest that the SNP is supportive of it in any form that will impact public services. This statement makes that clear.

This just shows another of the untruths spouted out by the two faced SNP.

If the UK votes to stay in this undemocratic organization, it Must abide by the the decision of the Brussels bureaucrats,it certainly cannot pick and choose what to accept. This is precisely why we are having a referendum this June. There are certain policies of the EU that the British people do not except,e.g open boarders. If the UK votes to remain in, it MUST accept ALL the EU rules.

Likewise if Scotland were to separate and is allowed to join the EU, it would HAVE to accept all these same rules including of course being forced to use the Euro in addition to implementing the TTIP agreement.

Please, some examples of how the SNP is being two-faced in this matter.

The UK does not have an open borders policy - as far as I know, the only place one can enter the UK without a passport is from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland. Border controls exist at all other points. We are currently in the EU and we do not accept open borders, just one of the many opt-outs that the UK has.

[nontabury]

The NHS is not socialism. It is a world wide respected institute that is considered to be one of the greatest UK accomplishments of the last century.

Sadly our government is intent on fundamentally undermining the NHS, with the ultimate goal of privatising health services in the UK entirely.

Sadly they see the US model as being the future, whereas most rational people would, I am sure, agree that for any country to consider itself progressive, it should not restrict full health care only to those who can afford it.

Agree, the NHS is something that ALL Brits should be proud of. Unfortunately it is now under threat from the proposed TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. If this comes about it will mean that the NHS will become a variation of the American health care system. And who is prepared to accept this,none other than the Conservative,Liberal,Labour parties along with the SNP, that is of course if we remain in the EU.

I fully agree with you that the NHS is under attack in general, and by the TTIP specifically, however you are incorrect to suggest that the SNP is supportive of it in any form that will impact public services. This statement makes that clear.

This just shows another of the untruths spouted out by the two faced SNP.
If the UK votes to stay in this undemocratic organization, it Must abide by the the decision of the Brussels bureaucrats,it certainly cannot pick and choose what to accept. This is precisely why we are having a referendum this June. There are certain policies of the EU that the British people do not except,e.g open boarders. If the UK votes to remain in, it MUST accept ALL the EU rules.
Likewise if Scotland were to separate and is allowed to join the EU, it would HAVE to accept all these same rules including of course being forced to use the Euro in addition to implementing the TTIP agreement.

Please, some examples of how the SNP is being two-faced in this matter.

The UK does not have an open borders policy - as far as I know, the only place one can enter the UK without a passport is from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland. Border controls exist at all other points. We are currently in the EU and we do not accept open borders, just one of the many opt-outs that the UK has.

Sorry! You are completely wrong,the U.K. Boarder are Wide Open to anyone from within the EU, this includes undesirables as well as those that might benefit the UK. Regarding the SNP, I would have thought that was obvious enough. The SNP say they want to retain the NHS,yet they know full well that this will not be an option if we remain in the EU.

[RuamRudy]

The NHS is not socialism. It is a world wide respected institute that is considered to be one of the greatest UK accomplishments of the last century.

Sadly our government is intent on fundamentally undermining the NHS, with the ultimate goal of privatising health services in the UK entirely.

Sadly they see the US model as being the future, whereas most rational people would, I am sure, agree that for any country to consider itself progressive, it should not restrict full health care only to those who can afford it.

Agree, the NHS is something that ALL Brits should be proud of. Unfortunately it is now under threat from the proposed TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA. If this comes about it will mean that the NHS will become a variation of the American health care system. And who is prepared to accept this,none other than the Conservative,Liberal,Labour parties along with the SNP, that is of course if we remain in the EU.

I fully agree with you that the NHS is under attack in general, and by the TTIP specifically, however you are incorrect to suggest that the SNP is supportive of it in any form that will impact public services. This statement makes that clear.

This just shows another of the untruths spouted out by the two faced SNP.
If the UK votes to stay in this undemocratic organization, it Must abide by the the decision of the Brussels bureaucrats,it certainly cannot pick and choose what to accept. This is precisely why we are having a referendum this June. There are certain policies of the EU that the British people do not except,e.g open boarders. If the UK votes to remain in, it MUST accept ALL the EU rules.
Likewise if Scotland were to separate and is allowed to join the EU, it would HAVE to accept all these same rules including of course being forced to use the Euro in addition to implementing the TTIP agreement.

Please, some examples of how the SNP is being two-faced in this matter.

The UK does not have an open borders policy - as far as I know, the only place one can enter the UK without a passport is from the Republic of Ireland to Northern Ireland. Border controls exist at all other points. We are currently in the EU and we do not accept open borders, just one of the many opt-outs that the UK has.

Sorry! You are completely wrong,the U.K. Boarder are Wide Open to anyone from within the EU, this includes undesirables as well as those that might benefit the UK. Regarding the SNP, I would have thought that was obvious enough. The SNP say they want to retain the NHS,yet they know full well that this will not be an option if we remain in the EU.

When was the last time you flew into the UK from an EU country and did not require to go through immigration controls? It has never happened for me.

Every reference I can find confirms that the UK is not part of Open Borders other than the intelligence sharing aspects of it. Furthermore, the RoI is also not party to Open Borders so no easy access into the UK that way either.

As for the SNP, it seems that your hatred for them has them condemned before TTIP has been finalised and they have even had a chance to respond.

[Grouse]

Getting back to the topic....

All hospital doctors below consultant are juniors

It can take years from qualifying to reaching consultant status

Pay, IMHO, is reasonable though could of course be better. Consultants and GPs make big money

The hours must be a pain. Sadly people do not get sick from 9 to 5.

British trained doctors should be financially penalised if they bugger off to Australia or elsewhere. Cost of training massively exceeds the fees paid

NHS is a great British institution much loved by the British. Healthcare free at the point of delivery for all! How civilised! Not socialism more social democracy

Plenty of room for efficiency and other improvements. My deceased mother was unable to get an essential MRI scan not long before she died because the scanner was closed for Easter!

For Americans to pour scorn on the NHS would be hillarious if wasn't so sad. You get an inferior service at much higher cost. Bernie is correct on that at least.

In conclusion, "junior" doctors should get back to work and put in the hours. Plenty of years to be Sir Lancelot Spratt in a bow tie earning big money to follow.

In the meantime SLASH NHS management pay and get the hospitals cleaned up. In some parts of the U.K., they are disgrace ( N Wales)

[bubba1]

Only skint people use the NHS anyone with any money will have private insurance.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

It is sweet to read the rants from the dear Americans, who come from a country which holds the highest child malnutrition rate for modern countries and has problems with diseases normally only commonly found in 3rd world countries, and yet they want to tell the world how health care should work...

Edited March 21, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[RuamRudy]

Only skint people use the NHS anyone with any money will have private insurance.

Today I learnt that virtually everyone I know is skint.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Only skint people use the NHS anyone with any money will have private insurance.

Today I learnt that virtually everyone I know is skint.

Or socialist countries which prioritize health of its citizen over selfishness

[OccamsRazor]

It is sweet to read the rants from the dear Americans, who come from a country which holds the highest child malnutrition rate for modern countries

Guess you just pulled that out of the air without any facts to back it up. Just tossing in an anti-american rant most likely.

Look at some real stats.

Unicef - Note most of Europe has no data so can't compare

Malnutrition by country

PDF file Unicef-Who

Note the charts that most of Europe has no data as such difficult to make a statement as you have as the data is not there.

[MaeJoMTB]

It must be hard for them trying to survive on 50,000gbp/year ($75,000).

[sunnyjim5]

It is sweet to read the rants from the dear Americans, who come from a country which holds the highest child malnutrition rate for modern countries

Guess you just pulled that out of the air without any facts to back it up. Just tossing in an anti-american rant most likely.

Look at some real stats.

Unicef - Note most of Europe has no data so can't compare

Malnutrition by country

PDF file Unicef-Who

Note the charts that most of Europe has no data as such difficult to make a statement as you have as the data is not there.

I see no claim to there being "no data".

I do however note that developed(high income) countries are grouped together.

It cannot be denied however, that the USA stands out as being a (developed?) country with significant child malnutrition problem + high numbers of obese children.

Suggest you re-read the report.

[bkkgooner]

The wonderful "Free!" NHS cannot last. The government can't afford it because "sooner or later you run out of other people's money" (Thatcher)

When UK doctors begin to move to countries which will actually pay them very well and let them set their own hours (such as in the USA) there will be an even bigger shortage of medical services in the UK. Then those people who said that "health care is a human right" will have to wonder if they are human I'd guess. The care will be "Free!" but it won't be available for humans.

There is never a good ending to socialism. This is the tip of the iceberg.

Cheers.

Interesting post, I don't hold much of an opinion on the matter but how would you like public health to work in the UK?

[bubba1]

It must be hard for them trying to survive on 50,000gbp/year ($75,000).

Pay peanuts get monkeys

[MaeJoMTB]

Interesting post, I don't hold much of an opinion on the matter but how would you like public health to work in the UK?

I would like the restrictions on many drugs removed.

Antibiotics (and many other meds) should be available upon request from the pharmacy.

Not force people to provide more work from a doctor.

I would also like to see much more doctor training available, so it isn't such an 'elite' profession.

The more doctors you train, the cheaper they work.

This is the capitalist way, free market, etc.

Reduce the management of the NHS, Tony Benn said it better than I can .........

Edited March 21, 2016 by MaeJoMTB

[GeorgesAbitbol]

Interesting post, I don't hold much of an opinion on the matter but how would you like public health to work in the UK?

I would like the restrictions on many drugs removed.

Antibiotics (and many other meds) should be available upon request from the pharmacy.

Not force people to provide more work from a doctor.

I would also like to see much more doctor training available, so it isn't such an 'elite' profession.

The more doctors you train, the cheaper they work.

This is the capitalist way, free market, etc.

Reduce the management of the NHS, Tony Benn said it better than I can .........

ben.jpg

I am enclined to agree with you but giving the Antibiotics over the counter would be a huge mistake:

People take antibiotics for anything and most of the time for Virus related problems which is completely useless.

However this kind of habits build antibiotic-resistance.

[GeorgesAbitbol]

It is sweet to read the rants from the dear Americans, who come from a country which holds the highest child malnutrition rate for modern countries

Guess you just pulled that out of the air without any facts to back it up. Just tossing in an anti-american rant most likely.

Look at some real stats.

Unicef - Note most of Europe has no data so can't compare

Malnutrition by country

PDF file Unicef-Who

Note the charts that most of Europe has no data as such difficult to make a statement as you have as the data is not there.

Read again.

Unesco table is only for children under 5 years old

http://www.feedingamerica.org/hunger-in-america/impact-of-hunger/child-hunger/child-hunger-fact-sheet.html?referrer=https://www.google.co.th/

http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2015/feb/10/nutrition-hunger-food-children-vitamins-us

It is well known USA has the best medical care for its citizen, right?

About the rant, maybe you should look at the past comments on this post and see hoe the dear Americans lecture the Europe and the red, communist, anarchist, socialist countries

Edited March 21, 2016 by GeorgesAbitbol

[OccamsRazor]

I see no claim to there being "no data".

I do however note that developed(high income) countries are grouped together.

It cannot be denied however, that the USA stands out as being a (developed?) country with significant child malnutrition problem + high numbers of obese children.

Suggest you re-read the report.

Or perhaps you should learn how to read a graph. I made it simple for you by highlighting the "no data" part. Perhaps just too lazy to actually read them. Two different reports showing 'no data'. As for showing under 5, that is the age group most vulnerable and a good thermometer of the general populace as the parents will most likely be sure the children are fed before them.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed. The topic is about the 48 hour strike by English doctors. Stay on topic, please.

[nontabury]

It must be hard for them trying to survive on 50,000gbp/year ($75,000).

Pay peanuts get monkeys

So you are paid in peanuts.