Help - I'm in Singapore without a visa

[Bear0Mack]

While trying to find the IU rental shop around the Tuas checkpoint area, I accidentally went too far to the motorbike gates, and I was not yet ready to leave Singapore. I asked to do a U-Turn. An official took me through the gate, checked my passport, and processed my auto-pass at another machine around the corner.

I was then led by two officals who were on foot down a path, along with another car, which had signage indicating parking for fire engines (even fire engines need to have somewhere legal to park). This path led to a boom gate which they opened for me remotely. There were no further formalities to process outside of the boom gates.

It's only today when I rode my motorbike to the LTA office in Bin Tang that I've found that they stamped me and my vehicle out of the country. Side note: LTA still have no idea where I rent the IU as mentioned in the ERP booklet.

This is Singapore, how screwed am I exactly? I've noticed that they really love to fine and arrest even people the try to follow the law here. What should I do to avoid going to jail or paying a big fine?

[sunnyjim5]

I have no idea what you can do apart from explaining your problem to the Immigration Authorities .

What was the reason for driving to the LTA office ?

You post might be easier to understand were it not littered with acronyms which most will not understand.

[Bear0Mack]

Yes. I agree SunnyJim, Singapore immigration and transport jargon is difficult to understand.

So an IU is a device used to automatically pay tolls in Singapore, which are called ERPs. It requires a NETS card, which is a stored value card in order to be used.

The autopass card is a card specifically used for entering and exiting Singapore. It's like a visa for your vehicle. It's also used for paying the entry toll but not the ERP.

The toll at the border is the only one called a toll. The others are called ERPs, but we foreigners would call them toll roads all the same.

The LTA is the Land Transport Authority. The same like the Department Of Land Transport in Thailand. They regulate the border crossing of vehicles and ERPs in Singapore.

I hope that all makes sense. I'm just a visitor here and there's a steep learning curve for familiarizing oneself with the regulations involved in driving in this particular country.

[JHolmesJr]

Dont worry...theyrethe nicest among all the asian countries in terms of helpfulness. ... The immigration and customs officers....very professional and incorruptible.

Go talk to any one of them and they will advise better than anyone on here.

[Crossy]

It appears that foreign registered vehicles no longer need to rent an IU http://www.lta.gov.sg/content/ltaweb/en/roads-and-motoring/driving-in-and-out-of-singapore/fixed-erp-fee-for-foreign-registered-cars.html

But, from the same page "You can also rent an IU in Woodlands or Tuas Checkpoint." sadly, no map

[Bear0Mack]

Correct Crossy. Foreign registered cars no longer need to rent an IU. All other foreign vehicles need to rent an IU, including motorcycles.

Edited March 19, 2016 by Bear0Mack

[bubba]

While Singapore is not corrupt, and the officials there are always professional, I have not found them to be exactly warm.

Singapore is very strict about immigration offences and they go strictly by the book. I might suggest that you speak with a lawyer asap and seek their advice on what to do.

If Immigration does not believe your story and decides to charge you with unlawful presence in Singapore, here are the penalties for that:

(3) Any person who contravenes, without reasonable cause, this section shall be guilty of an offence and —

(a)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period not exceeding 90 days, shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both;

(b)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period exceeding 90 days, shall on conviction be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months and shall also, subject to sections 325(1) and 330(1) of the Criminal Procedure Code 2010, be punished with caning with not less than 3 strokes, or where by virtue of that section he is not punishable with caning, he shall, in lieu of caning, be punished with a fine not exceeding $6,000.

And from what I have have heard there, they have no hesitation in handing down imprisonment sentences for immigration offences.

Sort of makes Thailand's overstay laws seem humanitarian!

[Woodsie888]

Where is your bike registered? Thailand or Malaysia? What passport are you travelling on?

I use the Tuas Checkpoint twice a day 5 days a week and have some experience with moving vehicles through there.

[theoldgit]

A number of nonsensical posts removed.

[hobobo]

While Singapore is not corrupt, and the officials there are always professional, I have not found them to be exactly warm.

Singapore is very strict about immigration offences and they go strictly by the book. I might suggest that you speak with a lawyer asap and seek their advice on what to do.

If Immigration does not believe your story and decides to charge you with unlawful presence in Singapore, here are the penalties for that:

(3) Any person who contravenes, without reasonable cause, this section shall be guilty of an offence and —

(a)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period not exceeding 90 days, shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both;

(b)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period exceeding 90 days, shall on conviction be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months and shall also, subject to sections 325(1) and 330(1) of the Criminal Procedure Code 2010, be punished with caning with not less than 3 strokes, or where by virtue of that section he is not punishable with caning, he shall, in lieu of caning, be punished with a fine not exceeding $6,000.

And from what I have have heard there, they have no hesitation in handing down imprisonment sentences for immigration offences.

Sort of makes Thailand's overstay laws seem humanitarian!

Wish we had similar overstay fines here in the LOS!

[chuang]

" I have noticed they really like to fine and arrest people even the people try to follow the law here "

No it's not true..... you said you accidentally went too far to the motorcycle gate...have you tried to explain to the officer the situations..

Besides you stamped out of the country so what fine and jail are you talking about...

[mesterm]

Dont worry...theyrethe nicest among all the asian countries in terms of helpfulness. ... The immigration and customs officers....very professional and incorruptible.

Go talk to any one of them and they will advise better than anyone on here.

But they are also the most straight-laced and inflexible. Which means that OP may very well be screwed.

[Bear0Mack]

Hey Woodsie, I went through the Tuas checkpoint with a Thai registered motorbike. No one knew about where to hire the IU in the little LTA box there. Thanks for your help.

[Bear0Mack]

That's my interpretation of the law and from the stories I've heard from other people.

The law is clear. I have no visa, therefore I have committed a crime by simply existing in Singapore. Even though it's the fault of the Tuas checkpoint organization. The people there are really friendly, and that's a plus, but they're incompetent. That's the fault of the organizations poor procedures and training. Not the staffs fault.

As Mestern says, they're so straight laced and inflexible, that I might well be screwed. It's like the frustration of talking to a call centre operator reading from a script and flow chart.

[NoshowJones]

While Singapore is not corrupt, and the officials there are always professional, I have not found them to be exactly warm.

Singapore is very strict about immigration offences and they go strictly by the book. I might suggest that you speak with a lawyer asap and seek their advice on what to do.

If Immigration does not believe your story and decides to charge you with unlawful presence in Singapore, here are the penalties for that:

(3) Any person who contravenes, without reasonable cause, this section shall be guilty of an offence and —

(a)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period not exceeding 90 days, shall be liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $4,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months or to both;

(b)

in the case where he remains unlawfully for a period exceeding 90 days, shall on conviction be punished with imprisonment for a term not exceeding 6 months and shall also, subject to sections 325(1) and 330(1) of the Criminal Procedure Code 2010, be punished with caning with not less than 3 strokes, or where by virtue of that section he is not punishable with caning, he shall, in lieu of caning, be punished with a fine not exceeding $6,000.

And from what I have have heard there, they have no hesitation in handing down imprisonment sentences for immigration offences.

Sort of makes Thailand's overstay laws seem humanitarian!

Wish we had similar overstay fines here in the LOS!

Why is that? What difference does it make to you?

[cms22]

Don't have a clue what you are going on about. Is this English?

[JHolmesJr]

Dont worry...theyrethe nicest among all the asian countries in terms of helpfulness. ... The immigration and customs officers....very professional and incorruptible.

Go talk to any one of them and they will advise better than anyone on here.

But they are also the most straight-laced and inflexible. Which means that OP may very well be screwed.

They do follow the rules, yes….but they are very respectful of foreigners…unlike their thai counterparts.

If the OP goes to them first, there is a chance they will listen…if he is caught by them, then it may be a different approach.

They are not unequivocally nice to everyone….they can be quite stern with the hos that try to come in for work and do 'exits' to renew their visa.

A couple of customs guys were hauled over coals recently for granting hos visas in exchange for sex…..so not all squeaky clean…but then, few men can resist a free romp.

[ozyjon]

Quoting other posts,,,

You post might be easier to understand were it not littered with acronyms which most will not understand.

Don't have a clue what you are going on about. Is this English?

[Mr Money Bags]

Quoting other posts,,,

You post might be easier to understand were it not littered with acronyms which most will not understand.

Don't have a clue what you are going on about. Is this English?

If one doesn't understand the acronyms, then how could one possibly have the knowledge necessary to help?

Trust me, OP, you need a lawyer's PAID advice......

You're Welcome!!

[JHolmesJr]

You post might be easier to understand were it not littered with acronyms which most will not understand.

Don't have a clue what you are going on about. Is this English?

If one doesn't understand the acronyms, then how could one possibly have the knowledge necessary to help?

Hardly a serious matter…IU is "in-vehicle unit"…a card reader…you insert a card with stored value and it deducts the ERP (electronic road pricing) automatically as you drive under the gantry….its used to pay a road toll to access certain roads in the cbd during peak hours…as well as certain key motorways.

[itsmylife]

We call this ERP 1) Everyday Rob People

2) Everywhere Rob People

[seancbk]

Yes. I agree SunnyJim, Singapore immigration and transport jargon is difficult to understand.

So an IU is a device used to automatically pay tolls in Singapore, which are called ERPs. It requires a NETS card, which is a stored value card in order to be used.

The autopass card is a card specifically used for entering and exiting Singapore. It's like a visa for your vehicle. It's also used for paying the entry toll but not the ERP.

The toll at the border is the only one called a toll. The others are called ERPs, but we foreigners would call them toll roads all the same.

The LTA is the Land Transport Authority. The same like the Department Of Land Transport in Thailand. They regulate the border crossing of vehicles and ERPs in Singapore.

I hope that all makes sense. I'm just a visitor here and there's a steep learning curve for familiarizing oneself with the regulations involved in driving in this particular country.

And for those still confused....

NETS = Network for Electronic Transfers Singapore

ERP - Electronic Road Pricing

[Bear0Mack]

So Australian High Consulate didn't want to help at all because it's their break day. They gave me a phone number to call, but how am I going to call them without a passport to purchase a SIM card? They wouldn't even let me use their phone.

However, after explaining to them how serious a situation it is to not have a visa in Singapore, they finally sent a man down to consult with me. His name was Peter. A friendly fellow. But all he could suggest was to turn myself at Tuas or Woodlands in when I exit.

They refused to give me any documentation to show that I had discussed the matter with the Embassy.

[CHRISTIANa9]

So Australian High Consulate didn't want to help at all because it's their break day. They gave me a phone number to call, but how am I going to call them without a passport to purchase a SIM card? They wouldn't even let me use their phone.

However, after explaining to them how serious a situation it is to not have a visa in Singapore, they finally sent a man down to consult with me. His name was Peter. A friendly fellow. But all he could suggest was to turn myself at Tuas or Woodlands in when I exit.

They refused to give me any documentation to show that I had discussed the matter with the Embassy.

Go to Tuas and explain yourself, it was a mistake from both parties. Get it done soon as there are plenty cameras around the checkpoint so they can verify your story. SG is very reasonable unlike Malaysia or Thailand taking every opportunity to screw u

[JHolmesJr]

Maybe dont report to tuas or woodlans but to the main immigration building at Lavender MRT. Thats a more civilised environment.

[Mr Money Bags]

You post might be easier to understand were it not littered with acronyms which most will not understand.

Don't have a clue what you are going on about. Is this English?

If one doesn't understand the acronyms, then how could one possibly have the knowledge necessary to help?

Hardly a serious matter…IU is "in-vehicle unit"…a card reader…you insert a card with stored value and it deducts the ERP (electronic road pricing) automatically as you drive under the gantry….its used to pay a road toll to access certain roads in the cbd during peak hours…as well as certain key motorways.

Having lived here for two decades, I absolutely agree that acronyms are a simple matter here in SG.

And "cbd" = Central Business District. Just in case anyone was wondering......

You're Welcome!!

NB: I stand by my original advice to retain PAID counsel. SG Immigration can be VERY strict when they so desire.

Edited March 20, 2016 by Mr Money Bags

[Bear0Mack]

Well I tried to call all of the phone numbers listed for both the Tuas and Woodlands checkpoints today in order to hopefully clear this matter up and make my exit much easier, which I plan to do tomorrow.. None of them picked up the phone.

http://www.ica.gov.sg/page.aspx?pageid=117#tuascheckpoint

Tuas Checkpoint Duty Officer Contact Number Arrival Bus Hall 6865 4621 Car / Motorcycle (Block A1) 6865 4627 Car / Motorcycle (Block A2) 6865 4645 Departure Bus Hall 6865 4618 Car / Motorcycle (Block D1) 6865 4676 Car / Motorcycle (Block D2) 6865 4693 Woodlands Checkpoint (24 Hours) 21 Woodlands Crossing, S(738203) Tel: 6767 5963

I will try the Australian High Consulate again tomorrow before attempting to make my exit.

[Bear0Mack]

P.S. Anyone know a good immigration lawyer in Singapore?

[sunnyjim5]

P.S. Anyone know a good immigration lawyer in Singapore?

Have you sought assistance here ?

Visitor Services Centre

Immigration & Checkpoints Authority

4th Storey, ICA Building

10 Kallang Road

(Next to Lavender MRT station)

Singapore 208718

[Bear0Mack]

Sunnyjim, what makes you think they won't just detain (arrest) me throw me in a holding cell (jail)?

Also, they've been closed for the weekend. Do you know if they have a phone number? Maybe I'll call them.