Gay parents fight for custody with surrogate in Thailand

[Patsycat]

That video i posted, where can you find in any way that it is child pornography? Jeez how low do your minds go? My niece posts vids of my great niece on facebook every day!!

I posted it to show how happy Carmen is, and you can hear her Spanish daddy talking in the background.

It also saddens me that bigotry is so rampant in this day and age.

Her Indian brother? He was made with the same egg donor. Now your getting into racism...

Yes, they maybe should have gone elsewhere, yes they should have done this and that. All that is beside the point. Carmen is here. And she is so cute!!

[uthaithanirules]

To add to this thread.

It angers me that so many so called "men" come onto this thread and put down a loving couple who have done everything for their child over a yeear,

Loved her, etc. Brought her up, clothed fed and loved her. And you still call them child trafficers? Given up their jobs, their livelihood every thing for that little gir.

And the others, oh they can adopt another one? <deleted>, that is their child.

Whether you like it or not.

That woman did not even turn up in court yesterday to claim Carmen as hers... Jeez, if i had the money i would get Carmen home.

And if a heterosexual couple had the same problem, i would be right behind them too.

It is their baby. And if you look at the photos Carmen is one very happy baby.

Gladly, she does not know what is going on.

If she didnt show up to court to contest, that will be what determines the final judgement

[greenchair]

This little girl is going to be raised in Spain by Adam and Steve with able as a side kick. The picture above is sick in itself and borders on child pornography. Once this child leaves thailand , there will be no checks and follow ups to see if she is ok as there would be to gay and adoptive couples in the America. All the mother wanted was the right to follow up on the child's well being such as letters, photos and an occasional visit. She was worried about the child being raised with 3 males.

What are they running from.

'Borders on child pornography'??? Where do you get these most idiotic, unintelligent and quite frankly moronic ideas from???

The non biological surrogate agreed to have a blastesized egg (from another egg donor) inseminated, signed a contract and received payment for her part in carrying the child through pregnancy.

The surrogate signed a contract, has no genetic ties to the child and for the well balanced of mind appears to have no rights in this matter whatsoever... This is a situation of 'the world gone mad'... Where common sense and decency have played second fiddle to bigotry of some, the greed of the surrogate and the weakness in those of decision making positions for allowing this to drag on.

Had the parent and his husband been a heterosexual couple I'm sure many of the bigoted haters would have a different opinion, the outcome in favor of the genetic parent (and partner) would have been much swifter.

1.look up the definition of birthmother, it says the woman who births a child. Nothing to do with egg or sperm ownership.

2. She tried to give the money back and wanted no part of it.

3. She was ok for them to take the baby girl, but wanted assurance the child was not going to be abused. Such as knowledge of where the girl would stay, occasional letters and photos to show the child was safe.

4.she was told her child would go to a nice couple from America.

She was not told until the day of signing papers that the child would be raised in an unknown location in Spain by two sexual deviants and an indian brother, with no motherly care.

5.if she knew these details she would never have agreed.

She was scammed. She is Buddhist and does not believe in gay marriage. That is her right.

I agree with one point you have made... "She is Buddhist and does not beleive in gay marriage. That is her right"

Yes... That is her only right in this case, she has a right to beleive what she wants. She signed all other rights away when she agreed to surrogacy.

As for any of the rest of your comments - with your "two sexual deviants and an Indian brother" comment you have shown that you are so blinded and bias, bigotry and racism that you are simply unable to recognise educated and intellectual balance.

I do feel for the surrogate mother - but with the exception of the egg donor the Bilogical father is the only biological tie Carmen has to this world.

---------

It does appear that this issue has polaraised discussion - It amazes me how in these supposedly civilised modern times that people can allow such bigotry and hate into their lives.

With regards to commens on Surrogacy being selfish, when adoption is available... I guess some people can never know how they would feel and can only choose judge others from a distance.

Example: My Child was born with the assistance of IVF - Adoption was a future possibility, as was surrogacy, thus these thoghts had entered my mind under close to realisitic circumstances before this debate arose.

However, It never came to it so I can't and never will judge someone who chooses surrogacy before adoption.

I suspect many of the same people might even go as far as suggesting that couples who naturally conceive and have their own child are being selfish when there are children ready for adoption - but I suspect these 'thinkers' never really place themselves in the situation instead prefering to pass judgement from on high and distance.

No, every person that is adopting out their child, or conceiving a child has a right to know the child will be safe. She was lied to, therefore she signed a contract under false circumstances. The contract is automatically void. By the way gay couples adopt all the time in America, but there are many checks through schools and neighbours. She is going off to Spain, and 1 of those males is not her father. The mother is worried.

[NickJ]

I don't doubt for a millisec that the best place for Carmen is wherever her Dads are....

[Jingthing]

This little girl is going to be raised in Spain by Adam and Steve with able as a side kick. The picture above is sick in itself and borders on child pornography. Once this child leaves thailand , there will be no checks and follow ups to see if she is ok as there would be to gay and adoptive couples in the America. All the mother wanted was the right to follow up on the child's well being such as letters, photos and an occasional visit. She was worried about the child being raised with 3 males.

What are they running from.

'Borders on child pornography'??? Where do you get these most idiotic, unintelligent and quite frankly moronic ideas from???

The non biological surrogate agreed to have a blastesized egg (from another egg donor) inseminated, signed a contract and received payment for her part in carrying the child through pregnancy.

The surrogate signed a contract, has no genetic ties to the child and for the well balanced of mind appears to have no rights in this matter whatsoever... This is a situation of 'the world gone mad'... Where common sense and decency have played second fiddle to bigotry of some, the greed of the surrogate and the weakness in those of decision making positions for allowing this to drag on.

Had the parent and his husband been a heterosexual couple I'm sure many of the bigoted haters would have a different opinion, the outcome in favor of the genetic parent (and partner) would have been much swifter.

1.look up the definition of birthmother, it says the woman who births a child. Nothing to do with egg or sperm ownership.

2. She tried to give the money back and wanted no part of it.

3. She was ok for them to take the baby girl, but wanted assurance the child was not going to be abused. Such as knowledge of where the girl would stay, occasional letters and photos to show the child was safe.

4.she was told her child would go to a nice couple from America.

She was not told until the day of signing papers that the child would be raised in an unknown location in Spain by two sexual deviants and an indian brother, with no motherly care.

5.if she knew these details she would never have agreed.

She was scammed. She is Buddhist and does not believe in gay marriage. That is her right.

I agree with one point you have made... "She is Buddhist and does not beleive in gay marriage. That is her right"

Yes... That is her only right in this case, she has a right to beleive what she wants. She signed all other rights away when she agreed to surrogacy.

As for any of the rest of your comments - with your "two sexual deviants and an Indian brother" comment you have shown that you are so blinded and bias, bigotry and racism that you are simply unable to recognise educated and intellectual balance.

I do feel for the surrogate mother - but with the exception of the egg donor the Bilogical father is the only biological tie Carmen has to this world.

---------

It does appear that this issue has polaraised discussion - It amazes me how in these supposedly civilised modern times that people can allow such bigotry and hate into their lives.

With regards to commens on Surrogacy being selfish, when adoption is available... I guess some people can never know how they would feel and can only choose judge others from a distance.

Example: My Child was born with the assistance of IVF - Adoption was a future possibility, as was surrogacy, thus these thoghts had entered my mind under close to realisitic circumstances before this debate arose.

However, It never came to it so I can't and never will judge someone who chooses surrogacy before adoption.

I suspect many of the same people might even go as far as suggesting that couples who naturally conceive and have their own child are being selfish when there are children ready for adoption - but I suspect these 'thinkers' never really place themselves in the situation instead prefering to pass judgement from on high and distance.

No, every person that is adopting out their child, or conceiving a child has a right to know the child will be safe. She was lied to, therefore she signed a contract under false circumstances. The contract is automatically void. By the way gay couples adopt all the time in America, but there are many checks through schools and neighbours. She is going off to Spain, and 1 of those males is not her father. The mother is worried.

The Dads say she wasn't lied to. It's not her child. She offered her body for rent. Not her egg.

You act like gay parents need special spying on. That's pure bigotry.

Typically adoption and surrogacy contracts disallow future contact unless the grown up child seeks it.

Science hint ... of course one of the Dads isn't her biological father. Men don't have eggs. Similar issues with infertile hetero couples.

Edited March 31, 2016 by Jingthing

[uthaithanirules]

Jingthing, and others.

This is how its basically going to go:

There are certain things in this world that can only be learned through experience. Like ear training when learning a musical instrument, you can never explain to anyone how you can match up notes you hear with patterns your fingers make on the instrument, or how you know what the notes are. Its all just muscle memory your brain has laid down.

In much the same kind of way, a new mother, once shes spent a certain amount of time with her child, she'll be able to instantly recognise all the different cries and what they mean. And she wont be able to explain to others how she can do that.

In much the same way again. People dont really really pay attention to kids, until they have their own. Never really listen to them, pay attention to how other adults and children speak to them, how some of those childs friends may speak to adults.Guys especialy might miss most of it first time around, when they had kids becuase they were too busy working all the time, but when they become grandads and have time to be around them will only start to pick things up then

You may go another couple of decades believing as you do now, that no one knows what makes people gay, that they are just simply born that way.

Up until that ear training kicks in as it work, you work out what that gay lisp is, what they are mimicking, where they learn it from, and that it attracts some adults more than others and why.

At the moment its all that is buried under classic homophobia, you current just believe if a guy gets angry about it, its either cos he thinks its icky, or hes in the closet. And at the moment no one is going to tell you any different.

So despite all the improvements in GLBT rights over the last couple decades and improvements in public acceptance at the same time.

50 years from now, you will still have the majority of the population getting to a certain age and being anti gay, at least as far as children are concerned.

Yes that all sounds bizarre. I say to you, Ok, prove they are gay, You say, thats bizarre, whats that got to do with anything?

Well its got everything to do with it. If in this case the Spanish guy is the gay one and the American has always mostly been attracted to the female infections in his voice. Wants to sex it up in the bedroom, what works the most if he dolls up the voice to sound like an 8 yr old girl thats upset and wants to get attention from her daddy. Means the american, has always been primed to girls that age, and what thats going to mean when his daughter and her friends get to that age.

Its all very bizarre, but thats why there are a lot more older people that are anti gay, its not becuase they are stuck in their ways, or becuase it was different back in their day.and its not even directed at gays themselves, just an unfortunate side effect of it all

[jaidam]

I would like to know who will take personal responsibility if Carmen gets abused. Bearing in mind the scheming nature of the dealings neuter checks and balances on the child's welfare. Will the 1 or 2 tvf members so convinced she belongs with this unorthodox setup give some sort of guarantee? Im thinking of surety of 1 million US each - of course your money bet will be safe, although i would be nervous guaranteeing a 5 bob note in this high risk situation.

[Jingthing]

I would like to know who will take personal responsibility if Carmen gets abused. Bearing in mind the scheming nature of the dealings neuter checks and balances on the child's welfare. Will the 1 or 2 tvf members so convinced she belongs with this unorthodox setup give some sort of guarantee? Im thinking of surety of 1 million US each - of course your money bet will be safe, although i would be nervous guaranteeing a 5 bob note in this high risk situation.

What an moronic off topic bait. No, nobody in their right mind will take personal responsibility for anyone other than themselves or people they are very close to.

[richard_smith237]

The stupidity of comments is astounding...

Who will take personal responsibility? Seriously? Are you willing to take personal responsibility in favour of the surrogate in a similar manner? Of course you aren't... Why? Because it's a galactically dumb thing to suggest in thr first place.

More older people being more Anti-Gay... It's because they have grown up in different times... Ear tuning??? One of thr guts using an 8 year old voice... Do you guys read your own posts??? They're so off the wall and so astoundingly bigoted....

The fact remains that there is a strong possibiliy that this couple or any gay couple can be great parents... As can any couple... But also as can any single mum or single father...

Equally so there is a possibility that some people may be poor parents, but to think this has anything to do with sexuality is just dumfoundingly thick...

[Jingthing]

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

[uthaithanirules]

The stupidity of comments is astounding...

More older people being more Anti-Gay... It's because they have grown up in different times... Ear tuning??? One of thr guts using an 8 year old voice... Do you guys read your own posts??? They're so off the wall and so astoundingly bigoted....

Yes, and you will go a long time believing more older people are like that because of assumptions like, oh its because they have grown up in different times. It could only be that, you are not going to want to believe any different anyway.

Ear training? Crazy right? Bizarre, totally agree with you, 20 years ago didnt even register, didnt even occur to me, if someone had tried to explain it, I would have been like "What the hell are you talking about man? Do you listen to yourself?"

But you have kids, if you are a guy and have a daughter, some bizarre shit starts to happen, you pay a lot more attention to everyone she interacts with, a lot more over protective of her than any other female you have ever known, you just throw out any crap that comes out of any guys mouth, and just go on instinct, their body language, how they look at her, where their eyes looking at, how they act.

Its not really until then you start to see just how many guys there are that are just plain pervy when it comes to girls way too young. Some of these guys that call themselves gay...well then why do they get so pervy around my daughter?

Stuff that was there all the time, right under my nose, every minute of everyday, everywhere, but totally blind to it because I previously just wasnt paying attention and/or didnt give a shit.

So as for the voice, that gay lisp, if gay people are born that way, where does the gay lisp come from? If born that way, either genetic or something that happens in utero? Totally independant of learning? What a laugh, Theres no such thing as human speech that is totally independant of learning

It wont really be till you get to that point when a gay guy meets your daughter, and you see how both her and his voice changes, how both her and his personality changes almost instantly and they are off to play with dolls together, Secondly comes that point when she interacts with a gay couple, one is the real deal and it will be the same, off to play with dolls together whilst the other one calls himself gay, but just gets too pervy around her, just that liitle two excited in the wrong way, especially when it comes to her voice. Thirdly comes that point when you see her interact with a little dude her age thats already pretty obviously going to end up gay, and man, is that ever noisy.

I never said I was anti all gay guys raising kids, some are the best, safest males to interact with your daughter. But some are just simply too oversexualized and a lot are just simply full of crap, arent even gay at all, dont care where they stick it, No matter how it looks to everyone else on the outside, they have been in a relationship with a guy for however long, its all irrelevant, especially if they are going to get pervy with underage girls.

And thats the one and only true test, how they are around young girls. Half of them are bi, partnered up with a gay guy thats the real deal, probably in part becuase thats the only way they get to meet girls

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

Well whats really going on, whether right or wrong, bigoted or not, A dozen different reasons by a dozen different types of people that are against it those reasons working concurrently, that sometimes will conflict each other, most of the time never actually verbalized becuase you wont listen and will just want to believe what you want anyway.

Forget they are gay, they are both men, the majority of everyone are always going to believe women in general are just simply better at raising kids. Youll notice gay women dont get as much flack as gay men do on the parenting thing.

Even you yourself are likely to be more supportive of a gay male couple that are well groomed, better looking, look more normal ....that is base their parenting skills on their appearance...whereas if one looked a lot more creepier or uglier you would be more hesitant, Likely you would want to pretend otherwise, but you would, everyone does it. You wouldnt be as comfortable if it were two pattaya ladyboys instead of these two guys

Many thais are just going to believe, biological mother or not, if the baby is half thai, better she grows up with a thai mother, thats why the law is the way it is, You and any other falang that doesnt agree will just look like someone trying to take advantage of thais, Throw around some money, they can take advantage of thai women, steal thai children.

Then theres the context, even the crazy post from the guy above that called them deviants, Hes probably not talking about all gay guys, just has had some bad experiences, or experiences with ones that were too oversexualised, Opinion is still valid even if out of whack

Then theres just the amount of times you go through life meeting people using words like equality, but only ever when it suits them, preaching one thing, doing the exact opposite in reality, or worse using a platform to decieve others

What people say out load means shit, Its what they actually do, how they act or react. Thats where you get the truth

If in ten years, Carmen does get dumped with some female relative, they've both run off to do whatever, because she was just some Asian toy to play with, well we wont know till then

[djayz]

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

Are you still ranting and raving? djayz bored now. Zzzzzz

Get over it already! Just because people don't agree with YOU, doesn't mean that they are stupid or bigoted.

Carmen should be with a mommy AND a daddy. Not daddy and daddy.

I pity the people who support/supported the fund that finances these two fellas.

[Jingthing]

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

Are you still ranting and raving? djayz bored now. Zzzzzz

Get over it already! Just because people don't agree with YOU, doesn't mean that they are stupid or bigoted.

Carmen should be with a mommy AND a daddy. Not daddy and daddy.

I pity the people who support/supported the fund that finances these two fellas.

That wasn't a rant in the context of the BIZARRE posts we've seen here. What you posted was.

Anyone, I can't be bothered with such low level noise.

Welcome to my IGNORE list.

[Langsuan Man]

Three page article with delightful pictures in today's Sunday issue of the Bangkok Post's Spectrum magazine supplement

[jaidam]

I would like to know who will take personal responsibility if Carmen gets abused. Bearing in mind the scheming nature of the dealings neuter checks and balances on the child's welfare. Will the 1 or 2 tvf members so convinced she belongs with this unorthodox setup give some sort of guarantee? Im thinking of surety of 1 million US each - of course your money bet will be safe, although i would be nervous guaranteeing a 5 bob note in this high risk situation.

What an moronic off topic bait. No, nobody in their right mind will take personal responsibility for anyone other than themselves or people they are very close to.

Thank you for replying. My post was not a "moronic off topic bait" It was a well designed and drafted post to discover whether you were totally sure about the parents good intentions, or whether you were totally sure that Carmen should be with the 2 homosexual fathers just because they are gay which suits your personal bias. On the basis of your answer - no you would not be personally responsible - although you insult any forum user that disagrees with your assertions, your thought process is transparent. This is exactly the worry I had over this situation, PC nuttiness instead of any genuine care for Carmen's well-being.

[Jingthing]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

Edited April 3, 2016 by Jingthing

[Kaalle]

I love it how people are appalled by the prospect of "two daddies" as oppose to a traditional family in Thailand. They then move on to other threads and post about how Thai parents neglect their children and have complete disregard for their safety (motorbikes etc).

Whats the dream scenario? Two falang mommy and daddy who goes to church every sunday? Daddy wears the pants and fixes things around the house and mommy cooks and changes diapers?

The kid is going to grow up under very favorable economic circumstances and be given a real chance to choose whatever she wants to do in life.

[geriatrickid]

Best of luck to the happy parents!

Gay in this case seems to mean homosexual, not happy. How could they be with this situation?

[BritManToo]

But in my humble opinion, having two gay men as "parents", gives me a strange feeling in my stomach that i want to throw up.

Oh, and the girl will have to lie about her real mom and it's pretty obvious that she'll sooner, or later want to have a mother.

I've not seen all that many single parent families that worked well either.

All your objections could be applied to a woman bringing up a boy on her own.

My thinking is two parents are better than one, even if one of the parents happens to be the 'wrong' sex'.

Bad luck about the mother part, she'll never have one, the woman wanting to keep her, isn't her mother.

Doubt the name of the egg donor will ever be revealed.

Edited April 3, 2016 by BritManToo

[richard_smith237]

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

Are you still ranting and raving? djayz bored now. Zzzzzz

Get over it already! Just because people don't agree with YOU, doesn't mean that they are stupid or bigoted.

Carmen should be with a mommy AND a daddy. Not daddy and daddy.

I pity the people who support/supported the fund that finances these two fellas.

There isn't a Mommy & Daddy in this situation....

There is a Non-Biological Surrogate OR a Biological Father.

The Non-Biological Surrogate doesn't want the Child to live with her Biological Brother and Biological Father because the Biological Father is gay and married to another Male.

There is no perfect world in this striation - however - there is no evidence or indication to suggest that the Biological Father and his Husband may be poor parents. Anyone suggesting they might be poor parents simply based on their sexuality is presenting a fundamentally flawed and homophobic argument.

I'll offer a ridiculous hypothetical situation just to make a point: IF (when my son was born) I was ever in the unfortunate situation of my son being adopted I would be happier with the Gay Couple in question adopting my Son than many parents I see around... drunks, uneducated, as some may say 'Walmart trash'.... those who are financially destitute, those who are ignorant and takes risks with safety...

In fact - on the spectrum of 'Parenting' I'd hazard a guess and suggest that this couple could be pretty good. Certainly better than a couple of Thai friends of mine who'd agree that they are not ideal parents, its not in their nature and their son is growing up to be a complete horror !....

[Orac]

It is kind of fun to see just how STUPID and BIGOTED the comments get though.

Those people are out there, BIG TIME.

Would they talk that way in public?

Are you still ranting and raving? djayz bored now. Zzzzzz

Get over it already! Just because people don't agree with YOU, doesn't mean that they are stupid or bigoted.

Carmen should be with a mommy AND a daddy. Not daddy and daddy.

I pity the people who support/supported the fund that finances these two fellas.

There isn't a Mommy & Daddy in this situation....

There is a Non-Biological Surrogate OR a Biological Father.

The Non-Biological Surrogate doesn't want the Child to live with her Biological Brother and Biological Father because the Biological Father is gay and married to another Male.

There is no perfect world in this striation - however - there is no evidence or indication to suggest that the Biological Father and his Husband may be poor parents. Anyone suggesting they might be poor parents simply based on their sexuality is presenting a fundamentally flawed and homophobic argument.

I'll offer a ridiculous hypothetical situation just to make a point: IF (when my son was born) I was ever in the unfortunate situation of my son being adopted I would be happier with the Gay Couple in question adopting my Son than many parents I see around... drunks, uneducated, as some may say 'Walmart trash'.... those who are financially destitute, those who are ignorant and takes risks with safety...

In fact - on the spectrum of 'Parenting' I'd hazard a guess and suggest that this couple could be pretty good. Certainly better than a couple of Thai friends of mine who'd agree that they are not ideal parents, its not in their nature and their son is growing up to be a complete horror !....

The problem is that this is a Mommy & Daddy situation.

The BP article today does not really go into the technicalities of the case but it does make the key point that Thai law grants custody of a child to its birth mother regardless of any biological ties. As such, it will make solving this matter through legal channels extremely difficult since, effectively under Thai law, it is an argument whether a contract for a mother to sell her child is enforceable.

It is clear to me that the best place for this child is with her two dads but the emotional case here is far clearer than the legal one. Hopefully the heavy publicity involved will put pressure on the birth mother to come to the negotiating table.

[lostinisaan]

i know i would not of wanted 2 dads, instead of a Mum and Dad.

i can presume the same would be said for this poor kid when she grows up.

On the flip side, this kind of comment can be annoying.

I grew up with a single mum, no dad, didnt make a damn bit of difference.

Not like Im some kind of mutant for not having a dad, more successful than most nowadays

Parents are role models, they make a difference, this is what people want to believe. Those that grew up with a mother and father have never known any different anyway

A stable home, food on the table....thats about it, your role as a parent, Anything else is just make believe

I had a grade six student last school year, who a sort of opened my eyes how important a mom can be.

It was around mother's day, when I wanted to give them some ideas to write a nice looking card in English for their moms.

Then I saw one girl crying and sat down next to her. It turned out that her mom had left her with her grand mom, just to stay with another man.

I felt very sorry for this girl as she doesn't even know where her mom right now is. She'd love to see her and talk to her.

It's not just a stable home with two gay fathers who bought a cheap Asian child.

It's about human relationships. And I'm very happy that i could have such a nice mom who's always there when I needed her.

My mom raised four kids and my daddy who's an alcoholic was no help at all. My mom had to do his work, we had our own company doing taxes for big companies.

Don't you think that the two guys would have gotten a baby in Spain, or America to adopt? But such a mix looks so nice.

I hope that the baby will stay with mom and that they really give her the needed love.

If the lose the case, they can go to Cambodia and buy a baby for 20 K and the story continues....

[Sawan Chan 7]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

It's amazing how gay men stick up for each other just because they have a similar interest in bottoms.

I was brought up to think of gays as sexual deviants, as that is what the experts told us. The DSM told us they were mentally sick.all of a sudden, and I blame the village people, it was trendy to accept gays and sure to many gays getting into positions of power the American psychiatric association were forced to NOT call homosexuals people with a psychiatric disorder.

Personally, I am against gays trying to pretend that they are sexually normal, same sex weddings normal, and worst gay men adopting children is frankly disgusting.

Jung Jung well call me a bigot but i sure you I am not. I pity 5 child if she is brought up by such a couple, and please don't call them a family.

[lkv]

"I have nothing against gay people but they should burn in hell".

The translation of the above post. Lol.

Pure homophobia with a "feel good about myself" touch.

Edited April 3, 2016 by lkv

[lkv]

If the lose the case, they can go to Cambodia and buy a baby for 20 K and the story continues....

Your post there just reminded me of Hannah Witheridge being murdered in Koh Tao and the parents being told by certain Thai individuals they can always go home and make another baby.

You sound like them. Good for you.

[Jingthing]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

It's amazing how gay men stick up for each other just because they have a similar interest in bottoms.

I was brought up to think of gays as sexual deviants, as that is what the experts told us. The DSM told us they were mentally sick.all of a sudden, and I blame the village people, it was trendy to accept gays and sure to many gays getting into positions of power the American psychiatric association were forced to NOT call homosexuals people with a psychiatric disorder.

Personally, I am against gays trying to pretend that they are sexually normal, same sex weddings normal, and worst gay men adopting children is frankly disgusting.

Jung Jung well call me a bigot but i sure you I am not. I pity 5 child if she is brought up by such a couple, and please don't call them a family.

Call you a bigot? I wouldn't give the likes of you the satisfaction.

[richard_smith237]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

It's amazing how gay men stick up for each other just because they have a similar interest in bottoms.

I was brought up to think of gays as sexual deviants, as that is what the experts told us. The DSM told us they were mentally sick.all of a sudden, and I blame the village people, it was trendy to accept gays and sure to many gays getting into positions of power the American psychiatric association were forced to NOT call homosexuals people with a psychiatric disorder.

Personally, I am against gays trying to pretend that they are sexually normal, same sex weddings normal, and worst gay men adopting children is frankly disgusting.

Jung Jung well call me a bigot but i sure you I am not. I pity 5 child if she is brought up by such a couple, and please don't call them a family.

Call you a bigot? I wouldn't give the likes of you the satisfaction.

I say 'good on homosexual men'... they never did anything to hurt me... in fact they've done heterosexual males a favour.... they've left more women available for us heterosexual men !!... Oh... the lesbians even that score out though I guess... oh well, win some loose some !...

....some of you guys are so scared of gay guys and anything related to supporting of Gay people that you remind me of the guy in American Sweetheart movie with Kevin Spacey...

Who cares if JT prefers Arthur over Martha... this whole distortion of the topic in attacking gay guys is becoming utterly ridiculous. Personally, I'm indifferent and apathetic towards homosexuals, if a guy wants to be gay its no business of mine. I am however against unnecessary negativity, outright stupidity and in this case the obvious bigotry getting thrown around....

------------------------

However, tying in these comments and bringing this back round on Topic... What if it were Two Lesbian Women who *(both unable to conceive) were to rely on a surrogate and face themselves in very similar circumstances... would the same 'anti-gay' Thai Visa activists be against them? against calling them a family etc? is it just Gay men having a family that they are against ?

[Sawan Chan 7]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

It's amazing how gay men stick up for each other just because they have a similar interest in bottoms.

I was brought up to think of gays as sexual deviants, as that is what the experts told us. The DSM told us they were mentally sick.all of a sudden, and I blame the village people, it was trendy to accept gays and sure to many gays getting into positions of power the American psychiatric association were forced to NOT call homosexuals people with a psychiatric disorder.

Personally, I am against gays trying to pretend that they are sexually normal, same sex weddings normal, and worst gay men adopting children is frankly disgusting.

Jung Jung well call me a bigot but i sure you I am not. I pity 5 child if she is brought up by such a couple, and please don't call them a family.

Call you a bigot? I wouldn't give the likes of you the satisfaction.

What a 'gay' evasive answer.

[2fishin2]

Double down on the idiocy.

So if the baby stays in Thailand and lives with nobody really knows, perhaps the woman perhaps not, will YOU personally guarantee the child's well being.

Hint -- to say yes either way would be INSANE.

Rational readers know that.

Next ...

It's amazing how gay men stick up for each other just because they have a similar interest in bottoms.

I was brought up to think of gays as sexual deviants, as that is what the experts told us. The DSM told us they were mentally sick.all of a sudden, and I blame the village people, it was trendy to accept gays and sure to many gays getting into positions of power the American psychiatric association were forced to NOT call homosexuals people with a psychiatric disorder.

Personally, I am against gays trying to pretend that they are sexually normal, same sex weddings normal, and worst gay men adopting children is frankly disgusting.

Jung Jung well call me a bigot but i sure you I am not. I pity 5 child if she is brought up by such a couple, and please don't call them a family.

Call you a bigot? I wouldn't give the likes of you the satisfaction.

What a 'gay' evasive answer.

So, and your point is?

[BritManToo]

I had a grade six student last school year, who a sort of opened my eyes how important a mom can be.

It was around mother's day, when I wanted to give them some ideas to write a nice looking card in English for their moms. Then I saw one girl crying and sat down next to her. It turned out that her mom had left her with her grand mom, just to stay with another man. I felt very sorry for this girl as she doesn't even know where her mom right now is. She'd love to see her and talk to her.

I can tell you aren't a qualified teacher in your home country.

Personal stuff about children's family life has been 'off the table' for at least 20 years in most western schools.

No mothers/fathers day work (they might not have one), no what I did with my parents last weekend (they might have been beaten and locked under the stairs), no discussion on daddy/mummy work (they might be unemployed or drug dealers), etc.

All of which may be considered as shaming a child in front of their peers, leading to bulling, if not teacher victimizing pupil.

Making a card for your 'carer' might be OK.

Or a card for a 'person of your choice'.

Edited April 3, 2016 by BritManToo