Buying a Big Bike, whose current owner has it on finance?

[SS1]

Hi all,

I finally found the bike I'm looking for, which is quite rare here in Thailand to find second hand (KTM 690 SMC-R), very well-equipped and sold at a decent price.

I'm in Bangkok and the bike and owner are located in Issaan, but I am willing to travel 600km to pick up this bike as I've been looking for one for months and they rarely come by.

However, there is just one little concern about the purchase; the current owner has it on finance from a bank who is keeping the green book until the loan is paid back in full. I confirmed with a Thai friend who has a car on finance, that they do indeed keep the green book until the loan is paid back in full. This does, however, create some issues for changing the name on the greenbook.

The owner has suggested me the following:
1. I go pick up the bike and pay 90% of the price

2. He will pay his loan and get the green book back

3. He will EMS me the green book once received along with papers for transfer.

Obviously, I would get this all on a proper written contract first before paying any money, but does this seem too dodgy? The owner has suggested alternatively that I stay there in Issaan until we can make the transfer there. He just wants some certainty that I will then actually purchase the bike if he pays the loan first whilst waiting to get payment from me. Since the bike is registered to Udon, I assume the transfer of greenbook must be also done there?

The guy himself seems pretty legit, he has sent me photos and a video of the bike, he is some wealthy Thai with a construction company. He is very strict with the price demand, so does not seem like any kind of a scammer.

What do you think? What steps should I take to ensure that everything will go smoothly?

[DILLIGAD]

I have never been in this position but would be VERY wary to trust anyone to pay off a loan with YOUR cash.

The finance company owns the bike, so I would suggest you deal with them direct and find out exactly their requirements yourself. Meet at their office with them, the present rider and yourself. Clear the loan and get the book immediately transferred into your name.

Good luck

[lovelomsak]

I would have the seller set up a meeting with the bank to pay off the loan. You go with him. Pay the loan off for him . then pay the difference owing to the seller and leave with green book and bike . Then head to motor vehicles with the seller and register it in your name.

Or after paying off loan go to motor vehicles and after it is registered in your name pay off balance.

Edited April 6, 2016 by lovelomsak

[eisfeld]

A wealthy Thai sitting in Isaan who purchased a KTM on finance, wants cash first and then EMS the greenbook later. No doesn't seem dodgy at all

I would follow the previous two advises. Go to the bank that allegedly is holding the greenbook, speak to them and see how the transfer can be done.

Does it come really that much cheaper than buying the bike in cash directly from the KTM dealer? There's a new one in BKK afaik.

[Don Mega]

I would have the seller set up a meeting with the bank to pay off the loan. You go with him. Pay the loan off for him . then pay the difference owing to the seller and leave with green book and bike . Then head to motor vehicles with the seller and register it in your name.

Or after paying off loan go to motor vehicles and after it is registered in your name pay off balance.

Does the finance company have actual possession of the book though ?

I sold a financed car a few years ago. Met with the buyer at the finance place (Tisco). Got the pay out figure and he gave the person the cash. Had to wait 2 weeks for the book to arrive for collection (or they could post it) and obviously was in my name.

[lovelomsak]

I would have the seller set up a meeting with the bank to pay off the loan. You go with him. Pay the loan off for him . then pay the difference owing to the seller and leave with green book and bike . Then head to motor vehicles with the seller and register it in your name.

Or after paying off loan go to motor vehicles and after it is registered in your name pay off balance.

Does the finance company have actual possession of the book though ?

I sold a financed car a few years ago. Met with the buyer at the finance place (Tisco). Got the pay out figure and he gave the person the cash. Had to wait 2 weeks for the book to arrive for collection (or they could post it) and obviously was in my name.

Makes for a good reason to have seller arrange meeting with bank.If they have to get the green book they have time to do it.Specify book to be there.

Never did it with a vehicle but did it with property.

[Richard-BKK]

I always say not trust anybody who try to sell a motorcycle who tries to sell a motorcycle which is not his…. Currently the motorcycle is owned by the financial company, you not know if his payment terms and due payments… Even if somebody is 3 months or longer behind schedule payments, paying all outstanding money will not make somebody the owner of the vehicle…

My advice, stay away from something like this….

[SS1]

I have never been in this position but would be VERY wary to trust anyone to pay off a loan with YOUR cash.
The finance company owns the bike, so I would suggest you deal with them direct and find out exactly their requirements yourself. Meet at their office with them, the present rider and yourself. Clear the loan and get the book immediately transferred into your name.
Good luck

Thanks for the advice everyone, I appreciate it. I think this may be the best way to go, or to tell the guy he must pay off the loan first before I hand him any cash, so that I can leave with the bike and the greenbook in my name.

A wealthy Thai sitting in Isaan who purchased a KTM on finance, wants cash first and then EMS the greenbook later. No doesn't seem dodgy at all

I would follow the previous two advises. Go to the bank that allegedly is holding the greenbook, speak to them and see how the transfer can be done.

Does it come really that much cheaper than buying the bike in cash directly from the KTM dealer? There's a new one in BKK afaik.

Yeah it does sound quite dodgy, however the guy doesn't seem like a scammer in the sense that he is not willing to discount the price. Good advice.

Any more info on this new KTM dealer in Bangkok? I have visited the one on Petchaburi road which sells the bikes new mostly. The new price of this bike is a ridiculous 689,000 THB and with all the aftermarket parts included in the sale of this second hand one, the price would be closer to 750,000. (parts, which would eventually come to the shopping list even if buying new, e.g. Akra exhaust and crash protectors). Therefore a second hand one is my only option at the moment.

[Paul944]

The wealth is more show as reality probably.

first option is you pay 90% without getting the papers and hope you ever get the papers? Or is the seller hoping you send him the remaining 10% if you get the papers by mail?

The price reduction must make it worthwhile for the effort. Buying a new bike you do not have to worry about the service record, or the lack of maintenance.

I do not know how the transfer has to be done when you get the papers in Bangkok and the bike is registered in Udon so the option to register it in Udon on your name seems easier to me. Depending how many days you need to be there.

Just check the address of the seller so you do not travel to an empty place where some guys are waiting for a free cash delivery.

[taninthai]

He is so wealthy he had to finance a bike ,.....no way do you pay 90%.

Get all the papers required from any local bike shop ,get bike signed over to you then go with him to finance company and finish transaction,you can then change green book in your local area.

Then again if he is so wealthy it shouldn't be a problem for him to just pay the finance of himself.

[papa al]

how much?

[Rayk]

I was selling my Cbr250 which still had 50000b owing on it. I was selling it at a very reasonable price of 90000b because i wanted to upgrade to a 650 Kawasaki. The buyer who was Japanese gave me the 50000b to pay off the loan after i gave him a written statement indicating the deposit was received and a photocooy of my passport. My wife paid off the loan and received a copy from the finance company stating the bike was paid in full. In order to transfer ownership the motor vehicle department requested that both parties be present. Because he is in Bangkok and we are in Rangsit it just wasn't convenient so after discussing with them they allowed my wife to transfer it into his name with copies of his identification. Saying that it also took about a week for him to get the green book sent to him.

I would suggest that you both go to the bank and pay off the loan as well as motor vehicle. Not everyone is as trustworthy as me.

Good luck

[Rhys]

A wise rider on another site once said, if the deal is too good...walk away... Buy a new bike and start your own history...keep looking..buy it new.. you will sleep more peacefully.

[DILLIGAD]

A wise rider on another site once said, if the deal is too good...walk away... Buy a new bike and start your own history...keep looking..buy it new.. you will sleep more peacefully.

Good advice. We have a big KTM (& combined Triumph/MV Agusta) dealers in Ubon called M2 Motorsport. They may be worth checking out?????

[georgy]

The finance is the matter of seller. Pay AFTER bike is transfered to your name

[Kerryd]

Get a lawyer. Give the lawyer the money (in the form of a bank draft). The owner pays off the loan and delivers the green book (and receipt) to the lawyer who, only then, hands over the payment.

Then again it may be cheaper and easier to just skip it altogether and buy a new one from a dealership.

[happy chappie]

I got a duke monster from a Russian in Phuket.there was no finance but all along the way we took pictures of me handing the cash over and collecting the book and paperwork,also while writing out receipts.turned out a nice chap and phoned me the next day to say he found two boxes of new spares 50,000b + and could I collect them.yes a very nice Russian.get photos,if there's any problems police understand picture more than anything.

[Balance]

Easy

Have a Thai attorney draft a purchase agreement between you and the current owner. You go to the bank together, pay off the loan and get the release from the bank. You then execute the purchase agreement at the bank. Next, you go to the registration office together and transfer the title to you. Maybe it can all happen in one day if you get to the bank first thing. Take a Thai speaker with you to translate anything that you need to know.

[khun custard]

No green book = no go!

If you can..fork out the extra, buy new and avoid dealing with 2nd hand.

Also check where you can get factory KTM service & repairs - the biggest deterrent for buying anything other than the run-of-the-mill here

[SS1]

Thanks for all the advice guys!

I will suggest him going to the bank together to sort out the deal and try to get everything done on the same day.

As for buying new, I know it would be better but I simply cannot spend 750k on a bike at the moment. I never buy vehicles new - always second hand, and I have always managed to re-sell them after a year or two at the same price or even once at a profit. For a new vehicle, as you all know the value drops as soon as you ride it out of the shop. A well cared second hand bike on the other hand, is quite easy to sell at a similar price after.

The price for this bike is around 450k, which is a normal second hand price for this bike (doesn't seem like a "too good to be true"-deal). It's just this bike in this spec is very hard to find; since 7 months it's the first one I've found (2014 or later model, which has ABS).

[rodknock]

when i bought my bike owner was from pattaya, he was willing to come up to bkk. to do the sale. good thing had to go to land transport at mo-chit. went to bang chak land transport and they told us to go to mo-chit office. paper work was a real pain. would not have bought the bike if he was not willing to go to land transport with me.

[SS1]

Just talked with the guy and got the issue sorted already; he has agreed to pay the loan back first and get all documents in order before I hand him any money. Hopefully will be a happy new KTM owner after Songkran!!

[taninthai]

Just as a side note you do know the requirements regarding putting bike in ferang name letter of residence from immigration.

[Don Mega]

Just talked with the guy and got the issue sorted already; he has agreed to pay the loan back first and get all documents in order before I hand him any money. Hopefully will be a happy new KTM owner after Songkran!!

Result. that really is the best solution. Enjoy your new ride !!

[DILLIGAD]

I got a duke monster from a Russian in Phuket.there was no finance but all along the way we took pictures of me handing the cash over and collecting the book and paperwork,also while writing out receipts.turned out a nice chap and phoned me the next day to say he found two boxes of new spares 50,000b + and could I collect them.yes a very nice Russian.get photos,if there's any problems police understand picture more than anything.

Except money.

[SS1]

Just as a side note you do know the requirements regarding putting bike in ferang name letter of residence from immigration.

Yeah, thanks for the reminder though. I have a work permit which I believe can be used instead of the letter of residence.

[Issanman]

There is a very nice KTM 690 SuperDuke R for sale at a dealership in Bangkok for 600K฿.

It appears to have ABS>>> LINK

[SS1]

There is a very nice KTM 690 SuperDuke R for sale at a dealership in Bangkok for 600K฿.

It appears to have ABS>>> LINK

Very nice bike. I actually sold my 990 Superduke in Europe recently and would love a 1290 Superduke-R, but the price is astronomical in Thailand.

However they are quite different bikes and I am set to the SMC-R supermoto. These bikes you are able to ride literally anywhere, including off-road which makes them special.

[Pdavies99]

"A wealthy Thai sitting in Isaan who purchased a KTM on finance, wants cash first and then EMS the greenbook later. No doesn't seem dodgy at all "

Unbelievable?? If he had money he would not have bought on credit and now sell at a low price?

Ask him to go with you to credit company, use his money to repay loan, go with him to vehicle licencensing, change name and then pay him with your money.

If not get ready to be gouged!

[bazza40]

I wouldn't touch a bike or car that was still subject to finance, period. Just too many ways to get ripped off.

OP should bear in mind if the "wealthy Thai" has agreed to pay off the loan, said person may just be telling OP what the OP wants to hear. How will the OP confirm the loan has been paid off before he travels 600 km to finalise the deal?