Living in Thailand with no health insurance

[RBOP]

Correction to my earlier post

Major op 1million Baht

A friend of mine broke his leg and had to have several operations with titanium rods and screws. Cost him 3.5 million baht in Bangkok. In US would have been $300K.

Edited April 7, 2016 by RBOP

[likewise]

44 years old, pay 32000 for health insurance and 4400 for accident insurance.

[BritManToo]

From personal and very recent experience. I have just recovered from a heart attack. I was in hospital for a week and it cost around 600,000baht. I had insurance but not enough. I thank my school for paying my bill or I would be still there begging for money or I guess I would have gone upstairs.

So for me, I say, get insurance.

Although I have been here for 17 years and not had any other real problems. Before that I have been very healthy. Be prepared!

Your recent heart attack is NOW a preexisting condition. Check to see if insurance companies cover preexisting conditions. If not, and you have heart problems in the future, your insurance company may not pay out.

I thought Thai schools were required to provide Thai SS health insurance to all foreign employees?

Edited April 7, 2016 by BritManToo

[anto]

I have very minimum insurance here in Chiang mai .If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump .Had a good life up to now ( 63 years ) ,and have been blessed with good health so far .

[Pepper1959]

I look at it this way, I had top private health insurance in Australia, therefore, why wouldn't I protect myself with the same option here in Thailand? Yes, the cost is greater, but it simply means cutting out some luxury that I can live without.

[JLCrab]

We've been through this one before::

Health insurance is not a good deal unless you get real sick thus the guys who like to say on here that they are 'way ahead' for not buying heath insurance because they didn't get real sick. Most people do not expect to get real sick. But of the small percentage of people that do get real sick, probably close to 100% of them never expected to get real sick either.

You also have to factor in that some of those on here that say that they self-insure and would never buy health insurance are medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

Edited April 7, 2016 by JLCrab

[Tengtai]

I have an insurance in Thai Health Insurance and this year I paid 15, 211 baht for 1 year, got 2,75% bonus, and I'm 59. It covers costs up to 400 000 baht and transportation home if I need to go back a last time. Also have an insurance on my PCX cover costs if I mess up with the motorbike.

I could pay more to cover higher costs on the big one but I consider myself quite healthy so for now I keep it like this.

[wwest5829]

Retired to Thailand in 2011. Had had 5 by-passes in 2005. Took out a medical policy here but after the first year they raised the rate substantially as I entered a new age bracket. At any rate they excluded any heart issue as a pre-existing condition. Thus, I dropped the insurance. In 2015, I had a heart attack. Result was 2 angioplasties and a stent (411,400 baht at a private hospital). So, I remain self insured and hope that there will not be another issue. If I have any "heads up", I can return to US for Medicare coverage. I do have 1st class car insurance and a motorcycle accident policy.

Edited April 7, 2016 by wwest5829

[akentryan]

There are multiple health insurance plans available with cost depending on age and pre-existing conditions which will be excluded. If you ride a bike you need accident insurance which is affordable. Bangkok Bank recently was offering a 200,000 baht accident policy for 1,590 baht for a year. To give you some idea of costs of things the cost to replace the battery in my Pacemaker is 400,000 baht. I was taking my Thai wife to Bumrumgrad Hospital in Bangkok with lung cancer - they wanted 500,000 to admit her. Government hospitals are cheap but they are also very weary of foreigners who get treated and can't pay. I have foreign credit cards with about 2 million baht available credit which hospitals will accept. i have insurance back in the USA which covers 70% of my costs here and about 60% of my medicines. Must pay first and then get reimbursed. i get a physical exam twice a year with chest x-ray, bloodwork and abdominal scans with the cost under 4,000 baht each. Every two months I get bloodwork to make sure my rat poison (blood thinner) is working. Everything is much more expensive now as medical tourism is on the rise. You must do your home work in choosing a hospital that is affordable. One thing to keep in mind is one poster already stated - if your condition is serious you may have trouble getting on a flight out. As we old farts age the likelihood of big problems arising is almost a certainty.

[TommyUK1960]

As most Ex-pats are over the 50ish mark. They have in most cases had some medical condition. So that condition is excluded when applying for health Insurance.

The other issue is Coverage is very poor. If you think 3 mil is enough. It don't take long for hospital to use all that up.

I don't do Thai insurance as they seem to me to be Rob dogs.

[godden]

The wife tells me i can't afford to die !!

[Suradit69]

I would say if you don't have company insurance to Ensure you buy it

Thailand is a lovely tourist space but for Long term dwellers there are vey little benefits for us and we are on our own

There has already been some talk of compulsory insurance for visitors ... not sure how far that's gone, but there are fairly frequent stories of some visitor ending up in hospital while unpaid bills mount and appeals go out for assistance from friends and family back home. I would imagine in a number of cases the hospital ends taking a hit to some extent. And of course when that happens, medical costs for everyone rise to make up for the losses caused by a few. Someone mentioned he was against the collectivization of insurance, but to some extent we all end up paying for those who are uninsured and unable to pay.

So there's at least a possibility, at some point in the future, insurance coverage will be a requirement or else some proof of ability to pay. Even if you're comparatively young & healthy now, if some regulation goes into effect when you're in your late 60's or older it will be difficult and expensive to find an insurer willing to take you on. Annual premiums would probably amount to a high percentage of the maximum you could claim.

[ignis]

Don't have any.

Many year ago did have, was taken ill, so say all taken care of by insurance [phone calls by Dr + Hospital to insurance Company]........ lived in the Algarve Portugal,

Are you not an EU citizen?

I thought EHIC pays all?

Lived/worked there before Portugal joined.. maybe could have got something from the UK, but had no idea at the time..

[theguyfromanotherforum]

No insurance for the past 2 years. Been paying for doctors and minor procedures like endoscopy out of my pocket. However, recently I got insured (for free) through my wife's company and I will definitely want to be insured when I reach 50. If, for whatever reason I will not be able to have/afford insurance I will move both of us to Canada.

[mrfaroukh]

You should for sure have a very good insurance. The medical cost is very high in Thailand specially for foreigners. I think an insurance of about 50 000 to 100 000 would be a good one to cover you.

[connda]

Once over 65, your options become limited. Maybe you want health insurance, but you'll be left paying exorbitant premiums, deductibles, co-pays, and or course your insurance company will not let one leaf be unturned regarding your health and will exempt anything they believe may cost them money as you age. 70, 75, 80 - you are out of options! What did you do wrong? You weren't independently wealthy an able to pay for all your own medical. Ageing and affordable insurance are contradictory terms in this country. Of course there will be the naysayers who have had a policy since they are 40 and don't see a problem, but for those whose native country will not cover their insurance here in Thailand??? Try going into the private insurance market after passing the age of 60 and retiring - and many coming to Thailand due to it's affordability of living - but not affordability of health insurance. My guess is that once your resources run out, you do what many expats do: end it. Thinks it's a coincidence? I don't.

Edited April 7, 2016 by connda

[connda]

I have very minimum insurance here in Chiang mai .If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump .Had a good life up to now ( 63 years ) ,and have been blessed with good health so far .

If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How many over 60 are going to pull the trigger on that options as they age?

[connda]

We've been through this one before::

Health insurance is not a good deal unless you get real sick thus the guys who like to say on here that they are 'way ahead' for not buying heath insurance because they didn't get real sick. Most people do not expect to get real sick. But of the small percentage of people that do get real sick, probably close to 100% of them never expected to get real sick either.

You also have to factor in that some of those on here that say that they self-insure and would never buy health insurance are medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

re medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

And of course that is entirely their fault and they should jump off a balcony because their situation in life was different from yours - I assume you can afford insurance? So you must be a 'good person." What of those who can not, either here nor in there home country? They're just 'bad people' right? And they should just accept that eventually they will be forced to commit suicide? Right?

[NancyL]

I have very minimum insurance here in Chiang mai .If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump .Had a good life up to now ( 63 years ) ,and have been blessed with good health so far .

If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How many over 60 are going to pull the trigger on that options as they age?

Sadly, some do. Others die in filth and squalor, with their pain untreated, because they lacked the ability or courage to take the leap.

All this talk about "I'm prepared for the balcony jump" is simply the bluster of younger healthy people who chose to ignore the future and live for today.

It's never too late to set aside 10,000 baht per month to have something available for medical emergencies. That's the great thing about Thailand, you can live here on 30,000 baht a month or you can live here on 300,000 baht/month. You won't believe how many people I assist have phones much fancier than mine! Some even have cars (or rather their wives/GFs do) yet they can't pay for lifesaving medical procedures! Gads, this is a city where you don't need a car.

[khunPer]

Insurance or not I think is pretty much a question of age – and of course previous health condition – as it only become more-and-more expensive the older your get; and if it's affordable, it's often with limitations.

What I really would dream to have, is an insurance with high or unlimited cover for everything over a certain amount, like an annual self risk, which could be 300k or whatever reasonable; i.e. the first costs up to the annual self risk is my own account, but the serious incident I cannot easily afford, I'm insured against. In my vision the self risk of for example 300k is paid into an insurance account, and if something happens, the insurance covers me, but use my own 300k first; which should make the large sum (more) affordable to insure. If I use any money, I have to sum-up next insurance year, so the self-risk is rebuild.

But to answer OP's question:

When I moved here 57 years old on early retirement, coming from a Scandinavian country with full health cover, I signed up with Bupa Thailand. I could afford their best Platinum, but could also see that it had limitations and a maximum coverage. Furthermore only one thing was sure, that the costs would go up the older I get. So I decided to downgrade a bit and set the difference aside, so I had a "Rainy Day Account", which is always recommendable when living in Thailand.

After some years, never using the health insurance, my savings and a bit extra became in my opinion such a reasonable size, that I decided to downgrade further on Bupa, in that way I was still in the insurance system – when exceeding 65 or 70, you can normally not get in – but at a very low rate. It was around 15k a year, but the insurance covers next-to-nothing, think each case has a maximum of some 30k and annual total of 300k; I had more set aside. Finally I decided, that the 15k or so merely was wasted money, so I gave up on Bupa and only continue with a PA (Personal Accident) insurance from one of the major banks, a package covering my whole family.

The individual question is of course, how much do you need to set aside. As Sheryl very wisely always says, that if you have one serious incident, then all your savings may have gone; an amount of 3 million baht has been mentioned. Using Private or public hospital can make quite a change in costs, but a serious health condition can still be expensive. I'm mainly thinking in health conditions, as accident may widely be covered by PA and other insurances. However, it can happen to be on your account, or partly your own, or you may need to come up with cash and be compensated later. The amount set aside must be of a certain size; however compared with the 15k Bupa insurance, where you think you have a cover, but in reality you have some 30k only for an incident, is that annual fee of 15k then better disposed when set aside in your Rainy Day Account..?

In my case I continue to set a monthly amount aside, an amount I otherwise would have paid into an insurance, and furthermore the interest from my 800k vise-extension deposit also goes into the Rainy Day Account; so it all time adds up – or rebuild, if anything is used. Part of the money is in easy acces bank account with ATM, and part is in Fund Book bonds for higher interest, but can be cashed in one bank-day; I trust my Thai girl friend enough to make these account shared, so someone else than me can act in case of emergency.

It is really individual how you shall arrange your safety – like I think it's important to have some trusted person – and how much you can afford to set aside; or pay for an insurance. In my opinion you shall always have some easy access of cash, when living in Thailand, insurance or not; and some kind of cover from insurance or your own deposit. 300k is worth same as annual total from a low-fee insurance, and 3 million is in the range Sheryl use to recommend as minimum...

All amounts mentioned are in Thai baht.

[Altalake]

LIVINLOS is pretty well spot on.

The ICU in say the Phuket International hospital can cost 100,000 baht per day for some crises.

So....be sure you are covered........What seems like an expensive premium might look cheap if one is struck down.

[anto]

>>All this talk about "I'm prepared for the balcony jump" is simply the bluster of younger healthy people who chose to ignore the future and live for today.

It's never too late to set aside 10,000 baht per month to have something available for medical emergencies<<

I dont even have near that amount ,but i have experienced enough of this life ,that i am prepared to die .Its just a transition to another plain ,I currently have excellent health for my age .I am far more healthy than my 45 year old Thai wife who is always taking pills .She is a very hard worker ,but has some medical problems .

[Social Media]

I think some level of cover is better than no level of cover. One should get what is reasonable to afford within your budget, make room for it, even if its a smaller policy than you would like ideally.

Those that "self insure", Ok, if you have the money, access to a large pot , but, imagine how your lifestyle and future may look if that pot, that allows you to live comfortably right now, and give you that degree of confidence was wiped out very quickly by an accident. An accident that may be wasnt even your fault, came out of nowhere, in no time at all you could be not only in very serious health condition but also potentially broke when you come out of it.

What sort of life would have then. Those that claim they could return to the home country etc, well, what if you werent able due to medical reasons, that argument works well IF you can travel, doesnt work too well if you are in a coma in a hospital somewhere though does it, or grasping at your chest on the floor because of a heart condition. You'll need help right then, not after a 12 hour flight.

Everybody hopes it wont happen to them naturally, but the truth is, it always happens to someone. Get something if you are able, is my opinion. Dont risk your life savings and future, for the sake of a monthly premium you probably wouldnt even really miss after awhile once you get used to paying it. Peace of mind is a better feeling than a nagging "what if".

Edited April 7, 2016 by Black Ops

[billd766]

I would say if you don't have company insurance to Ensure you buy it

Thailand is a lovely tourist space but for Long term dwellers there are vey little benefits for us and we are on our own

Great idea IF you are under 70 but cross that age and see what your insurance company says, especially if you ahve a pre-existing condition.

They may still take your money but forget it if you want treatment.

[billd766]

I have very minimum insurance here in Chiang mai .If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump .Had a good life up to now ( 63 years ) ,and have been blessed with good health so far .

If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How many over 60 are going to pull the trigger on that options as they age?

Me. But it will NOT be a balcony jump as there are better and less painful ways to go,

[cyberfarang]

I've assisted numerous older expats who find themselves in trouble, usually medical trouble. Most have financial problems in paying their current or anticipated medical bills. I've seen numerous situations where older expats have died of conditions that would have been treated or cured by health care systems in the west. Often these expats don't die comfortably.

Sadly, people sometimes get themselves into situations where they can't afford or don't want to or otherwise aren't able to return to their home country for care if it's needed. Or their condition is chronic and they don't want to return or can't return to their home country to have it resolved, i.e having heart stents installed, for example. Right now, I can think of about a dozen older expats who would have much better quality of life if they had an extra 200,000 - 250,000 baht to undergo the procedure to install a few heart stents. Instead, they're going thru life with low energy due to poor heart function, managing to stay alive with naps and medications, living from one pension check to the next.

How can you assist elderly expats that have serious health problems and can`t afford medical treatment? Unless you are a faith healer or can pay their medical bills yourself, I don`t see any ways you can help them.

If I only had enough money in the bank to grab my retirement extension each year and just enough to live on I would be having many sleepless nights. I cannot feel sorry for people that do not make provisions for themselves in Thailand, whether it be insurance or money put by knowing full well our situations in Thailand or for those living by chance. The facts are that as we get older, not only do we grow uglier but the risks of ill heath increase dramatically and the more dependent we become on assistance from others and health care. These are undisputed facts.

[billd766]

I have very minimum insurance here in Chiang mai .If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump .Had a good life up to now ( 63 years ) ,and have been blessed with good health so far .

If the worse comes i am prepared for the balcony jump

That's exactly what I'm talking about. How many over 60 are going to pull the trigger on that options as they age?

Sadly, some do. Others die in filth and squalor, with their pain untreated, because they lacked the ability or courage to take the leap.

All this talk about "I'm prepared for the balcony jump" is simply the bluster of younger healthy people who chose to ignore the future and live for today.

It's never too late to set aside 10,000 baht per month to have something available for medical emergencies. That's the great thing about Thailand, you can live here on 30,000 baht a month or you can live here on 300,000 baht/month. You won't believe how many people I assist have phones much fancier than mine! Some even have cars (or rather their wives/GFs do) yet they can't pay for lifesaving medical procedures! Gads, this is a city where you don't need a car.

YOU may live in a city but not everyone else does. within 20 km of where I live I know of at least 15 farangs and we are in the countryside.

That would be OK if everyone lived in a city with public transport but many of us live in rural Thailand.

I live in rural Khampaeng Phet and the nearest public transport to me is 6km away. It is OK if I want to take a bus to BKK 400 km away as there are 9 buses each way a day, but if I want to go to KPP I have to take a baht bus, my motorbike or the pickup truck.

However first I have to get there.

Edited April 7, 2016 by billd766

[balo]

As most Ex-pats are over the 50ish mark. They have in most cases had some medical condition. So that condition is excluded when applying for health Insurance.

The other issue is Coverage is very poor. If you think 3 mil is enough. It don't take long for hospital to use all that up.

I don't do Thai insurance as they seem to me to be Rob dogs.

A Thai insurance is better than no insurance.

I have used my BUPA insurance twice for minor things , one time at Bumrungrad for MR scan and specialist consultation , I saved around 35000 baht , My insurance cost me around 15k yearly .

So I do not agree with you . but if you are a lost case for any insurance company due to pre-existing conditions I can understand why people are not interested in signing up.

Edited April 7, 2016 by balo

[watgate]

Does anyone have the names and phone numbers of reputable insurance companies that offer accident insurance?

[JLCrab]

We've been through this one before::

Health insurance is not a good deal unless you get real sick thus the guys who like to say on here that they are 'way ahead' for not buying heath insurance because they didn't get real sick. Most people do not expect to get real sick. But of the small percentage of people that do get real sick, probably close to 100% of them never expected to get real sick either.

You also have to factor in that some of those on here that say that they self-insure and would never buy health insurance are medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

re medical basket cases that could never qualify for an individual policy even if they wanted to.

And of course that is entirely their fault and they should jump off a balcony because their situation in life was different from yours - I assume you can afford insurance? So you must be a 'good person." What of those who can not, either here nor in there home country? They're just 'bad people' right? And they should just accept that eventually they will be forced to commit suicide? Right?

Health insurance is something you should buy before you become a medical basket case, not after. I signed up for health insurance within months of arriving full-time in Thailand 15 years ago when the premiums were reasonable and I had no medical conditions that would deny coverage. That may not be the case if I tried to buy insurance today.

If you think I should have answer for those with limited financial resources and potentially large medical expenses and/or advanced age and no insurance either in Thailand or their home country, I don't.

Edited April 7, 2016 by JLCrab