Family (40ish w 5 yo) moving to Thailand. Your thoughts?

[khunPer]

I'm really interested in hearing your range--and from what I've learned of this place, there'll be a range!--of thoughts on this. Are there serious holes I've overlooked? What problems can you foresee.

It seems like you have considered the Work Permit situation – teaching for a couple of years – and then as dependent on wife's Visa-extension based on retirement. I think "applying for residency" can be a fairly long lasting process, from what I've read in other threads here.

Your daughter seems to be the main concern, as an income in the area of 3,000 USD/month, i.e. some 90,000 bath/month, can provide for a comfortable life in Thailand.

I've been living here for 10 years now, on retirement extension, and have a daughter, now 10 years old; however the mother/my girlfriend is Thai, and my daughter also Thai citizen.

So based on my experience, here is what I see:

Economy

When you, or rather your wife, reach retirement extension status, do plan to have the 800k baht in a permanent fixed bank account, that's more easy than any other method.

When you move to Thailand, plan to have some cash reserve in an easy accessable Thai bank account for emergency – often called "rainy day account" – the amount is of course a question what the individual family can afford to set aside, but enough an acute event.

Health insurance

An often debated matter is Health Insurance. None of your are eligible for free health care – however when you are working as teacher, you can apply for Thai Social Security, which will cost you 1,500 baht/month, and give only you healthcare at public hospitals – so some level of insurance is important. A well covering combined Health and Personal Accident for a family can easily cost you 10 percent, or more, of your monthly allowance.

Location

Apart from your work as teacher, it's also a question of school for your daughter. Up rural north rent and some livings costs are cheaper, but teacher salaries are also little lower, and schools not very good – at least, that's what I always hear, including from Thais. So have in mind that "Hua Hin" – or another more up-level spot – may not be that out-of-question.

School

Many will say don't even think about a Thai school, but I disagree, as long as you choose something else than rural village schools, and especially if you can afford an English Programme school.

Don't wait with the EP school till later – they do teach enough in Thai language and Thai skills and tradition – if you find a good one, you will even be pretty close to level of some International Schools, but of course without IS-certification.

Some EP schools include K1 to K3, where the Kindergarten student become well prepared for the following levels from P1 and up.

A good EP-school will have a mix of foreign kids and Thai nationals, giving your child wider aspects and variety of play mates, than a Thai public school.

Your daughter can be well prepared for later high school and whatever she wish, when starting with an EP school. I have compared the Thai EP school we chose for my daughter, with the schools from my homeland, Denmark, that is supposed to be quite good – both my Danish friends, including teachers, and I find the Thai EP-school much better.

Be prepared that a good EP-school will cost you from 30,000 baht/term and up – there are two terms, running from mid May till October, and November till ultimo March – including tuition fees, books, lunch, uniforms, school-bus, you shall count some 80,000 to 150,000 baht/year; which can fit into a 90,000 baht/month budget, I talk from experience.

Ineternational Schools are more expensive – just their certification is expensive – I don't recall I've seen any under the 400k level.

Budget

Your figure of 90,000 baht/month sounds fair enough, including EP-school fees, but it's of course a question of what life-style one need and how much one wish to spend – it can be done for less; and you can easily spend (a lot) more.

I wish you good luck with your plans.

[connda]

Bring your kids to Thailand, its the greatest country on earth with the best system of government and finest education Ive ever seen, all Thais are friendly and will do anything to help you................is that better?

Being a farang, your post shouldn't be lost on the OP as it would be on a Thai national, but I think the OP has already made up his mind.

[chilli42]

It's a tough life decision. Do you give up the security of job/income for the challenge and adventure of a new place. My own thought is that you are at a stage in your life where you need to maximize your income and savings for the future. Living in Thailand certainly is enjoyable but it is not lucrative. You will be paid far less than your value. So you will be giving up some of your best earning years for adventure. Nothing wrong with that but best you have a plan to manage your income and retirement fund before you come to Thailand

[Gutenberg]

She could go on to study university anywhere; wherever her friendships, her cultural/travel interests, her opportunities take her. Melbourne, Singapore, Vancouver, Tokyo, San Francisco, Berlin... the world's her oyster.

With a Thai bachelor/master she will be going nowhere except Thailand.

[Gutenberg]

As an income in the area of 3,000 USD/month, i.e. some 90,000 bath/month

3000 USD x 35 THB = ?

[rickudon]

One thing not mentioned - don't know much about this, but remember your daughter when she becomes 21? will also require a visa if you have not got thai citizenship (which is hard to get). She may have to leave Thailand ......

My 4 year old daughter, who i previously mentioned, goes to the second best school in the city (that offers education all the way through to 18). I would consider it the minimum, there are a number of half thai children there, possibly one or 2 farang. Fortunately not to expensive, about 35-40,000 baht a year. As she has a thai mother, at least no nationality issues.

I do wonder whether to take her back to the UK at some stage for her education, but it will not be easy - mother may not be keen on that and finding somewhere adequate to live hideously expensive. A decision put off until another day. From what i vaguely remember, there were a couple of thai children at my son's school in the UK, I think they took a couple of years to catch up - when aged about 12.

[Stevemercer]

What will your wife do all day in Thailand? Thailand is a great place for a bloke, but can be hard on older foreign woman unless they have a fulfilling life and good support network (hard to achieve in rural Thailand).

Having said this, why put yourself and your family through another Canadian winter? You could look at your wife and child staying in Canada while you try it for a year. They can come visit you for holidays and vice versa.

You will need to put your daughter in a good EP school which may limit where you can teach and live. She won't be picked on or teased in a Thai school, but she will never be assimilated or made to feel really welcome. Thai people will never understand why you have put her into a Thai school for the 'experience'. Anyone you have to deal with in authority will be uncomfortable about the situation. I'm sure she will pick up Thai easily enough from her classmates and teachers in an EP school.

[Tawan77]

What will your wife do all day in Thailand? Thailand is a great place for a bloke, but can be hard on older foreign woman unless they have a fulfilling life and good support network (hard to achieve in rural Thailand).

Having said this, why put yourself and your family through another Canadian winter? You could look at your wife and child staying in Canada while you try it for a year. They can come visit you for holidays and vice versa.

You will need to put your daughter in a good EP school which may limit where you can teach and live. She won't be picked on or teased in a Thai school, but she will never be assimilated or made to feel really welcome. Thai people will never understand why you have put her into a Thai school for the 'experience'. Anyone you have to deal with in authority will be uncomfortable about the situation. I'm sure she will pick up Thai easily enough from her classmates and teachers in an EP school.

Great post, thanks Steve. My wife also making a life there is definitely something we're talking a lot about. Her integration and happiness in a lot of ways is of greater concern. We both think our daughter would be fine. My wife would love to run a guest house, but I see all kinds of barriers there, from work permits to property ownership. I'm interested in hearing from anyone who has a guest house. Neither of us are Thai so I understand we'd need a Thai business partner, which is pretty frightening. Info is appreciated.

Good to hear those thoughts on EP schools. Those fees are easily doable. I'm thinking Phet'buri, Rat'buri, ChaAm, HuanHin area...

Thanks again for the responses

EDIT: I should have added that my wife already makes most of her income teaching online, so she has skills and income there. But finding community and friendships, that's a greater challenge. I don't see her learning Thai to the degree that I have or will, so we'll need to straddle Thai culture and the expat community.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Tawan77

[Denim]

Seriously ..... Not the best time to come and live in Thailand. There are so many issues up in the air at the moment ( politics , economy ..etc ) that a bit of patience could be of great benefit to you. If it were me I would give it another year or 18 months before reviewing your options again. Could save you a mountain of grief in the long run.

[khunPer]

As an income in the area of 3,000 USD/month, i.e. some 90,000 bath/month

3000 USD x 35 THB = ?

Take a conservative average, i.e. 30 baht for a USDollar, otherwise you may be disappointed. And be happy, happy, when you get more...

Edited April 15, 2016 by khunPer

[Tawan77]

Seriously ..... Not the best time to come and live in Thailand. There are so many issues up in the air at the moment ( politics , economy ..etc ) that a bit of patience could be of great benefit to you. If it were me I would give it another year or 18 months before reviewing your options again. Could save you a mountain of grief in the long run.

15 months would be the soonest anyway, but I hear your point. I am keeping an eye in the political situation and how it is affecting foreigners in Thailand as well as Thai freedoms and education.

[williamgeorgeallen]

i love thailand. i moved here when i was 32 and have had the best 10 years of my life. climate, food thai woman, value for money etc but now my kids will be starting school in a couple years so i have to leave. i want them to have the best, that is not going to happen in thailand. still hard to accept that i am going to leave. your coming here to raise your daughter? this twists my brain. better come over for a holiday during the winter.

[rethaier]

You are asking the wrong group. Most here are burned out negative cynics. But your child would need to learn Thai to start school. There are many cultural differences and most Thais, especially in the North are decent people but they drink too much.

[williamgeorgeallen]

You are asking the wrong group. Most here are burned out negative cynics. But your child would need to learn Thai to start school. There are many cultural differences and most Thais, especially in the North are decent people but they drink too much.

you may call us burnt out cynics, but many of us are also very experienced thai expats. even if i had the money to spend my kids to high end international schools i would not. i want them to grow up grounded, surrounded by middle class people.

[johnatong]

You are asking the wrong group. Most here are burned out negative cynics. But your child would need to learn Thai to start school. There are many cultural differences and most Thais, especially in the North are decent people but they drink too much.

you may call us burnt out cynics, but many of us are also very experienced thai expats. even if i had the money to spend my kids to high end international schools i would not. i want them to grow up grounded, surrounded by middle class people.

Do you send the kids to the local "middle class" Thai public school ?

[johnatong]

If you can put your offspring in an International school then they will be better off. I speak from experience - I've seen people put their children in one of the "better" private schools only to take them out, apologizing to the kids.

Yep - and I've seen people take their children out of the very expensive international schools whose academic achievements don't match the fees.

Pretty awful results !

http://www.bisphuket.ac.th/results/

Perhaps one gets what one pays for ?

[williamgeorgeallen]

You are asking the wrong group. Most here are burned out negative cynics. But your child would need to learn Thai to start school. There are many cultural differences and most Thais, especially in the North are decent people but they drink too much.

you may call us burnt out cynics, but many of us are also very experienced thai expats. even if i had the money to spend my kids to high end international schools i would not. i want them to grow up grounded, surrounded by middle class people.

Do you send the kids to the local "middle class" Thai public school ?

my son is in private kindergarten. my daughter is only 1 year old. no way i would ever put my kids in thai public school, i would rather get on a plane tomorrow and leave. i doubt any westerner would want to to use thai public schools, some desperate to stay in thailand without the means to pay public schools probably do but they are putting their needs ahead that of their childrens.. i can handle private school fees for now but if my kids want to go to university in new zealand they will need to go to high school in nz. all my planning is working toward that goal.

[williamgeorgeallen]

seriously man. thailand is a great place for a single male who has some money to burn. get your kid educated in the west, come here and retire, it will probably be the end of your marriage but if your wife agrees to move here then she only has herself to blame.

go back and read all these replies again. let them sink in and then read them again.

[crazydrummerpauly]

You are 100% barking mad - and in relation to your daughter's immersion in Thai culture and education - totally selfish to boot. A decision like the one you are contemplating should not be made until you have lived here for at least 5 years. As it stands, you are too full of yourself and your abilities and sound judgement. You seem astonishingly unaware of the risks you would be taking ! Read all TV headlines every day for the next year, starting with the road carnage we are just totting up right now as the abomination Songkran comes to another grisly end. If it was you on your own, it would be not so heavy a decision, but to haul a well-settled family here ? NO. Let me put it as strongly as i can think of this moment - if any member of my extended family announced they were taking a child of school-age to South-East Asia, i would accuse them of self-indulgent idiocy bordering on child-abuse. I know 100 times more than you about the Thai education system and its dodgy practices and low standards - why ? - because i've lived with a Thai government teacher for 7 years and know that sector inside out. [by the way - i have just come in to the house after a mere 3-mile drive down the dark chaotic main street of our town, and had more hair-raising narrow escapes than you would expect in several years in the west - i wish i had dash-cam film to show you - your hair would turn white. At least 50 young motorcyclists driving as if they had lost the will to live straight down the centre between trucks and cars while water is thrown forcefully in their faces. This is a MAD-HOUSE. ]

On the subject of people 'Getting what they pay for in Thai education' - oh how hilarious that statement is when you know the truth. Why do you think a Thai degree or even masters is worth little outside of Thailand ? Because like everywhere else in T'land CORRUPT practices mean that each qualification is LITERALLY paid for one way or another. I have a London Uni PhD etc, and as soon as i was rumbled as 'dr' i was offered money from Thai postgrad students to write their dissertations for them - 'name yr price'. I refused, even though i did do a huge amount of editing of one 10,000-word piece as a one-time favour. I never did it again. Same with Thai teachers trying to get promotion - money under the table every time. And are you aware of the way those Thai head-teachers and Directors of education manage to go to all those social functions almost every night of the week ? By slicing their 'comimssion' off the budgets they are given to buy school equipment and supplies. You sound like a really 'nice' happy guy - maybe a touch on the hippy side ? (apologies if that offends) - but i really doubt that you know more than 10% of what really goes on in the Land of Wiles. Good luck if you take the leap, but i would absolutely not do it.

But hey - you've already decided haven't you ? :-)

Too hot, too depressed by suicidal road-nuts - this post is so bad-tempered i've Reported myself for being offensive ! Do whatever you think is best for ALL the family, but do at least look all around the world for other warm climes. With that level of monthly rental income your choices are many. [if my Report is acted on, the rant will disappear.]

[johnatong]

You are asking the wrong group. Most here are burned out negative cynics. But your child would need to learn Thai to start school. There are many cultural differences and most Thais, especially in the North are decent people but they drink too much.

you may call us burnt out cynics, but many of us are also very experienced thai expats. even if i had the money to spend my kids to high end international schools i would not. i want them to grow up grounded, surrounded by middle class people.

Do you send the kids to the local "middle class" Thai public school ?

my son is in private kindergarten. my daughter is only 1 year old. no way i would ever put my kids in thai public school, i would rather get on a plane tomorrow and leave. i doubt any westerner would want to to use thai public schools, some desperate to stay in thailand without the means to pay public schools probably do but they are putting their needs ahead that of their childrens.. i can handle private school fees for now but if my kids want to go to university in new zealand they will need to go to high school in nz. all my planning is working toward that goal.

Best ensure the kids can read, write and do arithmetic prior to returning to NZ !

That will involve some hefty fees and you will need to be aware of what progress is being made and if it matches achievement in NZ.

Disappointing if you arrive in NZ and discover the children are in need of remedial teaching.

[Suradit69]

Bring your kids to Thailand, its the greatest country on earth with the best system of government and finest education Ive ever seen, all Thais are friendly and will do anything to help you................is that better?

kannot, I thanked you for your post. I'm not closed to your opinion, it's just that such broad abhorrence of everything Thai just doesn't help me much. I welcome critiques of the education system and pointing out frustrating pieces of the culture or government, and stumbling blocks to settling, but some specifics would be better than your broad distaste for everything Thai.

Probably quite important once you settle here to go slowly getting chummy with farang, especially those eager to share their opinions on everything and who dismiss everything in Thailand as "abhorrent." They're quite sticky and nearly impossible to get free of.

Whatever you do, don't ever ask them why, if they're so unhappy here, they chose to live here or continue to do so. By their rules asking that is not allowed. It would imply they were at fault. After all, they chose to live here, so out of gratitude Thailand ought to change to suit them.

[brianinbangkok]

After 3 years of working, we can also apply for residency. .

You may want to do some more reading here on Thai visa regarding actually getting a PR here.

It's not something you can get easy in Thailand....

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/74654-cameratas-guide-to-the-permanent-residence-process/

[Tawan77]

You are 100% barking mad - and in relation to your daughter's immersion in Thai culture and education - totally selfish to boot. A decision like the one you are contemplating should not be made until you have lived here for at least 5 years. As it stands, you are too full of yourself and your abilities and sound judgement. You seem astonishingly unaware of the risks you would be taking ! Read all TV headlines every day for the next year, starting with the road carnage we are just totting up right now as the abomination Songkran comes to another grisly end. If it was you on your own, it would be not so heavy a decision, but to haul a well-settled family here ? NO. Let me put it as strongly as i can think of this moment - if any member of my extended family announced they were taking a child of school-age to South-East Asia, i would accuse them of self-indulgent idiocy bordering on child-abuse. I know 100 times more than you about the Thai education system and its dodgy practices and low standards - why ? - because i've lived with a Thai government teacher for 7 years and know that sector inside out. [by the way - i have just come in to the house after a mere 3-mile drive down the dark chaotic main street of our town, and had more hair-raising narrow escapes than you would expect in several years in the west - i wish i had dash-cam film to show you - your hair would turn white. At least 50 young motorcyclists driving as if they had lost the will to live straight down the centre between trucks and cars while water is thrown forcefully in their faces. This is a MAD-HOUSE. ]

On the subject of people 'Getting what they pay for in Thai education' - oh how hilarious that statement is when you know the truth. Why do you think a Thai degree or even masters is worth little outside of Thailand ? Because like everywhere else in T'land CORRUPT practices mean that each qualification is LITERALLY paid for one way or another. I have a London Uni PhD etc, and as soon as i was rumbled as 'dr' i was offered money from Thai postgrad students to write their dissertations for them - 'name yr price'. I refused, even though i did do a huge amount of editing of one 10,000-word piece as a one-time favour. I never did it again. Same with Thai teachers trying to get promotion - money under the table every time. And are you aware of the way those Thai head-teachers and Directors of education manage to go to all those social functions almost every night of the week ? By slicing their 'comimssion' off the budgets they are given to buy school equipment and supplies. You sound like a really 'nice' happy guy - maybe a touch on the hippy side ? (apologies if that offends) - but i really doubt that you know more than 10% of what really goes on in the Land of Wiles. Good luck if you take the leap, but i would absolutely not do it.

But hey - you've already decided haven't you ? :-)

Too hot, too depressed by suicidal road-nuts - this post is so bad-tempered i've Reported myself for being offensive ! Do whatever you think is best for ALL the family, but do at least look all around the world for other warm climes. With that level of monthly rental income your choices are many. [if my Report is acted on, the rant will disappear.]

Haha, man and I've been spending an hour considering my reply. Big of you to own up to ranting. The "idiocy" and "child abuse" comments were a bit much... but I'm not dismissing your post either. Your experience is real, and while you irked me claiming to know 100x more than me, I recognize your life is well meshed with Thai life and the Thai education system. Both of us will also acknowledge how freaking bitter some expats can become after a number of years there. I would never allow that to happen. If we weren't happy, we'd leave... but we'd go to Thailand committed to stay and to make it work. I believe that's how you have to approach living abroad. It's worked everywhere we've lived.

I've seen some wild driving in Thailand, but I've never had the response you have. I found highway driving in Jan-Mar to be incredibly civil; much improved over 13 years ago. Helmet use seems to be way higher too. That said, I missed Songkran. Maybe drivers get pretty stupid; Thais and farangs both!

We are definitely on the hippie spectrum. No offense taken there! That's where I think many expats won't relate to my question. I'm not a single guy into Thai girls, nor am I the kind of worker/diplomat who'd take a high paying job opportunity and put my kids in the elite international schools and live in a million dollar penthouse in Silom or Sukhumvit, nor are we retirees (though you can see I'm trying to retire at 40!). We're artists and travelers who've built up some wealth and capital and a great life by being frugal and making good investments. We've got a great life here. I'm not running away from it. I just think with our resources and privilege, that it could be even better. A life living abroad, with cultural immersion, living off our rental income and online work, looks like a pretty sweet life in Thailand where living is cheap, the holidays long, the country beautiful, a great travel hub to all of Asia. I think we can thrive. We can support our daughter's education with homeschooling as we'd have the time, desire, and skill to do this.

But no, I haven't already decided. there have been some tremendously helpful responses today. Thanks all. You too Pauly. If we come I'll be sure to hit you up for some pints (full of ice, of course!) Hang in there if life there has you down at times.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Tawan77

[brewsterbudgen]

One thing not mentioned - don't know much about this, but remember your daughter when she becomes 21? will also require a visa if you have not got thai citizenship (which is hard to get). She may have to leave Thailand ......

My 4 year old daughter, who i previously mentioned, goes to the second best school in the city (that offers education all the way through to 18). I would consider it the minimum, there are a number of half thai children there, possibly one or 2 farang. Fortunately not to expensive, about 35-40,000 baht a year. As she has a thai mother, at least no nationality issues.

I do wonder whether to take her back to the UK at some stage for her education, but it will not be easy - mother may not be keen on that and finding somewhere adequate to live hideously expensive. A decision put off until another day. From what i vaguely remember, there were a couple of thai children at my son's school in the UK, I think they took a couple of years to catch up - when aged about 12.

Foreign children require visas to enter Thailand no matter what age they are. I'm just in the process of applying for my 1-year old's Non-imm O visa and I will then get him added to my Extension as my dependent.

[Gutenberg]

As an income in the area of 3,000 USD/month, i.e. some 90,000 bath/month

3000 USD x 35 THB = ?

Take a conservative average, i.e. 30 baht for a USDollar, otherwise you may be disappointed. And be happy, happy, when you get more...

I live in the here and now but the USD does not matter anyway for us Europeans Oh well, of course if the EUR is going strong against USD we are getting a better exchange rate to the THB.

[taiwangirl]

Lots of good replies here. You asked for opinions and so I will give you mine. LOL

I would not do it. If I made a quick Pro vs. Con sheet, I think that there would be too many cons, most of which have been discussed above,

main one is schooling for your daughter. This is a big issue.

Rental income is fickle. You mention you can get CAD$3000/month for your current residence. Will you have someone manage it for you? What is their %? What if the market changes? What about major repairs, etc. or if you have a rental person who "destroys" your place?

Do you have any back up funds? If no, then this is an issue. Assume you cant get a job here at the salary you desire. Assume your place in Canada is vacant for 6 months. Assume that you find that the best school for your daughter costs X baht more than you expected every month. Assume you do not have rental income from a condo in Thailand. Assume your expenses in Thailand are actually 1.5 or 2x your plan. Assume you have a motorbike accident and you are out of work for a period. Can you survive?

I am pretty conservative in an issue like this, so personally would not make the move. Good luck with whatever you decide.

[Tawan77]

Lots of good replies here. You asked for opinions and so I will give you mine. LOL

I would not do it. If I made a quick Pro vs. Con sheet, I think that there would be too many cons, most of which have been discussed above,

main one is schooling for your daughter. This is a big issue.

Rental income is fickle. You mention you can get CAD$3000/month for your current residence. Will you have someone manage it for you? What is their %? What if the market changes? What about major repairs, etc. or if you have a rental person who "destroys" your place?

Do you have any back up funds? If no, then this is an issue. Assume you cant get a job here at the salary you desire. Assume your place in Canada is vacant for 6 months. Assume that you find that the best school for your daughter costs X baht more than you expected every month. Assume you do not have rental income from a condo in Thailand. Assume your expenses in Thailand are actually 1.5 or 2x your plan. Assume you have a motorbike accident and you are out of work for a period. Can you survive?

I am pretty conservative in an issue like this, so personally would not make the move. Good luck with whatever you decide.

This is all great advice. Good thoughts. It's true, the unexpected can happen and needs to be considered. My wife is great at that! we would have a great property manager and emergency funds available should disaster strike.

I've mentally made the pro/con sheet. It depends on how you weigh each point. There's certainly stability staying put, and risk to moving.

I also taught in Taiwan. Great place!

[aronp1]

if u care about your daughter I would never let her set foot in Thailand until shes 18+, I personally find the Thai culture abhorrent, selfish un-caring , engrossed in their religious fantasy indoctrinated with bs throughout

Heh, that's one opinion! Abhorrent, that's harsh. That broad brush is pretty harsh too. Do you still live there? There are people engrossed in religious fantasy everywhere... as well as the selfish and uncaring. I didn't find my Thai friend who lent me her motorbike for a year to be selfish, nor the ones who loaded their pickup truck to help us move from Rat'buri to Koh Phangan. The Thai strangers that drove my wife and daughter to their departing bus were pretty caring too...

But thanks. I DO care about my daughter's well-being more than anything.

Sounds like you should leave if you're still there...

I would like to add, there's only one religion that has never nor will never be debunked. Yep! Buddhism.

[thairay]

if you move here as you wish,please fill us in when you realise the people here saying you are not fully aware of the facts were right

[KC 71]

Go for it