Expats in Thailand - what do you intend to do when you're old (70,80,90+)?

[simon43]

Although I'm at the tender age of 56, I have no ties as such with my home country (UK). I am happily divorced from all of my wives - English and Thai. I live alone and have no plans to remarry or take a steady GF.

That got me thinking about the future. Without family around me, I start to wonder about what might happen if I become physically or mentally 'frail'. I have good BUPA insurance for accidents and illness. But BUPA is not intended to cover long-term care.

I should imagine the best option if I were frail would be to move into a care home - I see details about homes in the Chiang Mai area.

I have no plans to return to the UK at all. I hope I can retain my independence and 'marbles' until I drop stone dead like my dear father did at the age of 89 years.

What would your plans be if you reach a good age? Return to your home country? Rely on family and friends? Learn to fly (unsuccessfully)?

[CharlieH]

If financially able, you could always employ someone to take care of day to day needs.

A "Housekeeper" and personal assistant rolled into one. (and NO that's not called a "wife" before someone jumps in with that )

[aneliane]

Homes are horrid, you depend on the good will of people who don't get fair wages for their jobs and who eventually just slag off and neglect you.

The best insurance is to preserve your body and mind with adequate lifestyle.

[simon43]

The best insurance is to preserve your body and mind with adequate lifestyle.

Good idea. So hookers only every other night then?

[NancyL]

This is a topic that's discussed with what would some would call depressing frequency on the Chiang Mai forum where some expats don't even make the decision to relocate to Thailand until after age 70.

For example, this thread on Dok Kaew Gardens, one of the better known, longer established and reasonably priced cared home in Chiang Mai that is able to accomodate foreigners:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/767980-assisted-living-at-dok-kaew-gardens-at-mckean/page-3

Unlike similar places in the west, the facilities in Chiang Mai are staffed by caring people who don't "slag off and neglect you".

From what I've seen (I'm president of the CM Expats Club, basically a club for retired people) the most successful older expats are those with a wide social network, who have kept active, both mentally and socially. Not necessarily those who have a Thai wife/GF, but those who have some close and caring western friends who they trust to step in if they are unable to take care of themselves. Accidents happen or people can get to the point that they aren't capable of remembering when to take medication properly or how to handle their finances. Those are usually the first two things to go when people start to have declining mental function. It's important to have someone close to you that is able and trusted enough to intervene before you get into trouble because you're not managing your medications and/or your finances properly. Often a Thai spouse or trusted maid isn't the person able to do this.

[willyumiii]

I expect to die somewhere between 70 and 90.

Then it's " up the chimney" for me!

[willyumiii]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

[overherebc]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

Told my doctor I'd given up smoking, drinking, late nights and 4 times a week casual sexual encounters.

I asked him how much longer I would live because of all my good resolutions.

He asked me why I would want to live longer ?

[IMA_FARANG]

The best insurance is to preserve your body and mind with adequate lifestyle.

Good idea. So hookers only every other night then?

---------------------------------

Get real .....at 70 years of age, a different girl every night is a thing of the past, my friend.

[geronimo]

My wife used to tell me that drinking and smoking will shorten my life, so I asked why is it that all the old men I know, smoke and drink? The ones that don't have gone already! I rest my case!

[huahinjoe]

I think we have to think about other factors too, given the fast pace of technological and medical advances, I wouldn't be amazed if there is some kind of solution to ageing in the next 20-30 years or at least helping to extend the healthy, enjoyable lifespan in some ways.

https://www.ted.com/talks/aubrey_de_grey_says_we_can_avoid_aging?language=en

http://www.livescience.com/6967-hang-25-year-wait-immortality.html

[overherebc]

The best insurance is to preserve your body and mind with adequate lifestyle.

Good idea. So hookers only every other night then?

---------------------------------

Get real .....at 70 years of age, a different girl every night is a thing of the past, my friend.

So that explains your TV name.

[NancyL]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

Told my doctor I'd given up smoking, drinking, late nights and 4 times a week casual sexual encounters.

I asked him how much longer I would live because of all my good resolutions.

He asked me why I would want to live longer ?

I guess you haven't actually seen people die of lung cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, untreated high blood pressure and HIV? Not to mention alcoholic dementia. I'm very much surprised a doctor would say such a thing. None of those are quick or pleasant ways to go. You're incapacitated and your care is expensive at the end.

[apetley]

I will live a long healthy and fruitful life. My end will come either peacefully in my bed or at an event hopefully entertaining enough to make the front page.

[laolover88]

I am immortal. But in the event that I am mistaken I shall go swimming until I cannot.My bones will be returned by the great maw of the sea exquisitely bleached.

[1FinickyOne]

Hi Simon - - This is an incredibly difficult area - just as we can have trouble envisioning our own death, it is the same with dementia... as you become very very gradually advanced into dementia, there is likely not going to be a recognizable point at which you want to relinquish autonomy over your personal decisions... and making good decisions becomes more difficult but most of us want to live by our own choices...

My 90 year old father, greatly diminished, did not want to accept anyone's help or advice that he could not drive to the shopping mall even though the first thing that would happen was that he would fall face first into the pavement.

This is one of those things that there is no particularly good/easy answer for... by the time most people are in need of full time care for dementia, they are incapable of making that decision...

[jspill]

Viagra assisted heart attack

[Fookhaht]

If financially able, you could always employ someone to take care of day to day needs.

A "Housekeeper" and personal assistant rolled into one. (and NO that's not called a "wife" before someone jumps in with that )

At 65 and 90% healthy, I did just that, to "prepare the way" for older age and frailty. Wanna get to know and trust this person.

[Muzarella]

AIA have health/life insurance plan up to 70 years old, valid until 80, if you are here with a retirement extension longer than 6 months. Cheap too.... and you can have a nice companion to take care of your needs at any age. I have many friends over 80 having here a better life that they had in their own countries at 50...and with 1/3 of the cost. Including myself, joining them soon...if I last that long.

[1FinickyOne]

There is a tremendous X factor in all of this as we do not know our own fate and how can you make plans beforehand... especially for dementia. At what % of brain cell loss do you want to give up power over your life and decisions. Most never.

We had excellent help for my parents [they even told me where my father hid his money] but that did not stop my mother suffering the paranoid pain that her old sweaters were missing and stolen by the help...

I agree with Nancy L that a Thai wife would not necessarily be the best one to deal with these things. It is also something that I would not want to inflict on my wife or child. I would prefer to disappear and leave them with only the good memories... how and when to accomplish this, I really have no idea - and it is not just an expat in Thailand issue.. so many lives are ruined by a parent's dementia and a families attempt to deal with this.

My parents were in an expensive facility for the last few months of their lives and you could not have found a cleaner more caring environment and still my father would try to escape though he barely had 10% of his cognitive former self...

[Laughing Gravy]

In will work until the day I drop. I enjoy doing so. I would liker to live to an age over 100 providing I am still fit to exercise and wipe my own backside. Also living to that age I will be able to claim my state pension and feel I got a good return. I still pay into it and I am nearly 50. This may obviously change as I get older, although I doubt it, as I firmly believe the day I stop working, is the day to start digging my own grave. I have seen too many people plan for retirement and die shortly after reaching their goal.

[aneliane]

The best insurance is to preserve your body and mind with adequate lifestyle.

Good idea. So hookers only every other night then?

I don't think cognitive abilities are linked with hookers practice, but exercise in general gets the blood circulating.

That, coupled with an appropriate diet and a protected environment such as an EE system could significantly prolongate well being.

[ebcal]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

Told my doctor I'd given up smoking, drinking, late nights and 4 times a week casual sexual encounters.

I asked him how much longer I would live because of all my good resolutions.

He asked me why I would want to live longer ?

I guess you haven't actually seen people die of lung cancer, cirrhosis of the liver, untreated high blood pressure and HIV? Not to mention alcoholic dementia. I'm very much surprised a doctor would say such a thing. None of those are quick or pleasant ways to go. You're incapacitated and your care is expensive at the end.

Hi NancyL,

Not always easy to tell when people are joking or being sarcastic, but I would venture that the person was quoting a joke, not advice from a real doctor.

But, this is a valid discussion about quality of life versus quantity. A valid question about going to extremes to extend the quantity of our years, but is it worth it in sacrificing a lot of quality and enjoyment in those years. Everyone obviously has to answer the question for themselves.

Some go to the extremes of one or the other, but most probably try to find a balance somewhere in between where we try to lead a somewhat partial healthy lifestyle, yet dont give up some of our pleasures that improve the quality of our lives, whatever that may be, e.g. eating our favorite foods. And maybe a rare few might be able to merge the 2 sides and have both.

[CharlieH]

And lets not forget the "accident" that could be around the next corner, the one that makes you no longer able to make any decisions at all, the one that could see you paralysed etc or temporarily comatose.

Its at that time you are going to wish you had taken time to ensure a "friend" will look out for you and your best interests, as I am sure NancyL can attest in her experience with Expat situations.

I would urge anyone who chooses to be "single" for whatever reason to have a good back-up plan as you get older, and dont wait, or do it later, it may be too late.

[ebcal]

The OP brings up a good point. Too often we dont think about what will happen to us in our old age when we are unable to think clearly and fully take care of ourselves. Especially as we experience cognitive decline, or worse dementia or alzheimers, we can be tricked, scammed or make poor decisions and not know it.

So, it behooves us to try and have people around us we can trust and can help us. For those with families, it is usually their spouse or children, or relatives that can be trusted on to care for them. For those without family, one surely better find some trust worthy friends and even make arrangements. But, that may not always be easy to know who you can really trust. If not trustworthy, you can bet many a caretaker, casual "friend" will try to rip you off and take your money. And if you are in declining cognitive state, you will be an easy target. Believe me. Those wild email and phone scams that seem unrealistic that any could be so stupid to fall for are common for a reason. There are those that fall for it and often it is seniors. And it is ignorant to think that you could never be one of those falling for it, as you get older and your cognitive abilities decline, we must realize our own vulnerability and limitations.

So, it is smart of the OP to think about these things well in advance, while you still have some years to take action, make connections and relationships, and make a plan.

[1FinickyOne]

The OP brings up a good point. Too often we dont think about what will happen to us in our old age when we are unable to think clearly and fully take care of ourselves. Especially as we experience cognitive decline, or worse dementia or alzheimers, we can be tricked, scammed or make poor decisions and not know it.

So, it behooves us to try and have people around us we can trust and can help us. For those with families, it is usually their spouse or children, or relatives that can be trusted on to care for them. For those without family, one surely better find some trust worthy friends and even make arrangements. But, that may not always be easy to know who you can really trust. If not trustworthy, you can bet many a caretaker, casual "friend" will try to rip you off and take your money. And if you are in declining cognitive state, you will be an easy target. Believe me. Those wild email and phone scams that seem unrealistic that any could be so stupid to fall for are common for a reason. There are those that fall for it and often it is seniors. And it is ignorant to think that you could never be one of those falling for it, as you get older and your cognitive abilities decline, we must realize our own vulnerability and limitations.

So, it is smart of the OP to think about these things well in advance, while you still have some years to take action, make connections and relationships, and make a plan.

As you say, all is true - it is very easy to scam the elderly and there are plenty who see this as opportunity. I was told that amongst people who sell mailing lists, the most expensive ones to buy are that of elderly... my aunts phone used to ring off the hook from Indian Tribes... and police fund raisers, though I was told that police do not fund raise.. my dad who was a brilliant businessman love winning the sweepstakes and when he would get those WINNER notifications in the mail, he would for some reason send them money, then the next day, have no idea who wrote the check missing in his check book..

The thing is that the temptation for even a trusted caregiver to not feel "deserving" of at least a small piece of the pie, a little bonus here and there, would be quite someone to find.

[kannot]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

Told my doctor I'd given up smoking, drinking, late nights and 4 times a week casual sexual encounters.

I asked him how much longer I would live because of all my good resolutions.

He asked me why I would want to live longer ?

An ex girlfriend of mine told her Dad one day " Dad if you gave up smoking youd live to be 100" he was 90 at the time, his answer was "what makes you think I want to live that long"

Ex WW2 Tail gunner so lucky he even made it to 25, shot down twice and almost had leg amputated

[kannot]

I will live a long healthy and fruitful life. My end will come either peacefully in my bed or at an event hopefully entertaining enough to make the front page.

Death by Custard???

[The Deerhunter]

"What would your plans be if you reach a good age?"

I think we need to think about just what is a "good age".

I once asked my doctor how many years it would add to my life if tried to lead a "healthier life" no smoking, no drinking healthy diet and more exercise?

He asked me how many extra years of wearing a diaper I really wanted.

Just what is a good age if the quality of life sucks?

1. The living healthily and mentally together as an older person is one thing. I am there now!!!

Being dead is another.

3. One we can handle ourselves and the other we don't need to handle.

In the middle (stage 2???) is the possibility of up to several or even many years of frail mental and physical existence. It is alright being flippant abut the first and third stages but the question undoubtedly covers the middle stage which those of us who do not have the good fortune to go straight from stage 1 to 3 will have to live through and that's obviously what the OP asks about. I'm in stage one but like everyone else in a healthy stage one, have no idea about stages 2 or 3 hold for me.

I too am interested in hearing about sensible options for a dignified and caring stage 2.

[macksview]

i know a bloke up country, not short for money, has a live in housekeeper.

he has been back to the uk to organise for his time to go to a home, staged care, as his health changes, so does his accommadation.

reckons that twenty years of living thai is about up.

golf, lawn bowls, will be it, no more a quick cuddle with the girls at his local farang bar.

he is 76, he has worked out his needs.