Supply and demand in 2016?

[Kf6vci]

There are desperate calls from schools needing help with placing ads etc. And then there are teachers who cannot land a job? (I'm talking about the usual 25-30 k Baht government jobs)

How is this different this year versus previous years?

Many schools will start the coming Monday? Some want to save money by not advertising until early June

LostinIsaan posted a job but that hasn't worked out. Can we conclude that the market has improved for those who needn't worry about a TOEIC score of 600 etc.?

[tonray]

The market is fine....it's the schools continually dumping direct hires for agencies...and schools already using agencies are pressuring them to provide teachers for 30K per month or less, and if not they will switch. I know one school was using an agency that paid teachers 35K per month, school switched to agency paying teachers 28.5K per month. This is in BKK (Hua Mak). I can almost guarantee these teachers will not finish out the year at that salary because the school still expects all the nonsense, 6:30 AM Gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until 4PM...etc etc. This likely will be my last year teaching here...just tired of all the downward pressures on salary and upward pressures on duties.

[BruceMangosteen]

The market is fine....it's the schools continually dumping direct hires for agencies...and schools already using agencies are pressuring them to provide teachers for 30K per month or less, and if not they will switch. I know one school was using an agency that paid teachers 35K per month, school switched to agency paying teachers 28.5K per month. This is in BKK (Hua Mak). I can almost guarantee these teachers will not finish out the year at that salary because the school still expects all the nonsense, 6:30 AM Gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until 4PM...etc etc. This likely will be my last year teaching here...just tired of all the downward pressures on salary and upward pressures on duties.

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

As for duties, I've easily stated, but actually done the act of refusing to adhere to such outlandish requests as gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until school day complete, etc.(etc. includes written lesson plan submission for approval(and criticism) camps(weekends, share one star rooms without AC or hot water), Thai teacher meetings and parties(nights), temple days, workshop days(outside tutors brought in for O-Net prep), sports days)

[tonray]

The market is fine....it's the schools continually dumping direct hires for agencies...and schools already using agencies are pressuring them to provide teachers for 30K per month or less, and if not they will switch. I know one school was using an agency that paid teachers 35K per month, school switched to agency paying teachers 28.5K per month. This is in BKK (Hua Mak). I can almost guarantee these teachers will not finish out the year at that salary because the school still expects all the nonsense, 6:30 AM Gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until 4PM...etc etc. This likely will be my last year teaching here...just tired of all the downward pressures on salary and upward pressures on duties.

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

As for duties, I've easily stated, but actually done the act of refusing to adhere to such outlandish requests as gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until school day complete, etc.(etc. includes written lesson plan submission for approval(and criticism) camps(weekends, share one star rooms without AC or hot water), Thai teacher meetings and parties(nights), temple days, workshop days(outside tutors brought in for O-Net prep), sports days)

Most people cannot simply refuse these requests. Doing so would constitute grounds for dismissal or non-renewal of contract. I am happy that you can but most of us cannot.

[BruceMangosteen]

Most people cannot simply refuse these requests. Doing so would constitute grounds for dismissal or non-renewal of contract. I am happy that you can but most of us cannot.

RE: Added on duties and assignments....apart from it not being in your contract, dismissal isn't really one of the worries as long as you are doing your best teaching and showing up for class. If a school doesn't renew you because you failed to adjust and devote night and day to the school, well all I can say is I regret you aren't in a position not to care. Money talks, all the BS can walk IMHO. I've never ever even heard of a teacher being dismissed because she didn't show up for gate duty or after school functions. As for renewal's, it once again is a matter of them actually liking you, not your job performance and participation. Not meaning to ramble. Have a nice week. Remember, before you think about it, the next holiday is this coming Friday! Only a four day week teaching. What a relief.

[Guest]

Good news .. nothing has changed since the dawn of time:

The law of Supply and Demand is still in effect ... ditto gravity and thermodynamics.

Your posting is so poorly written I can hardly figure out what you are saying ... but if it is whining that wages are declining .. then supply is robust.

It is the Law.

[rkidlad]

There's a well-known teaching agency here who are getting desperate now.

The base salary has always been 42k. They used to stipulate no one over 30-years-old. They slowly but surely upped that to the point where there is no age restriction now.

Now - they're saying potential teachers don't need any experience, just a degree. And the latest job add outside of Bangkok said 'Degree desirable but not necessary'

I'm witnessing first hand that it's becoming harder to find foreigners to teach here. The salaries are increasing ever so slightly but they're just increasing the workloads.

Let me tell you now - young foreigners who seem to be the choice for schools aren't coming here to graft. You can get away with paying them peanuts because they're not here to put in a 9-5 shift. They need a little bit of pocket money and lots of days off to travel. You try making them work a proper day's work, and they'll be gone.

They haven't come here to give the kids an experience. They've come here to give themselves an experience.

[rkidlad]

The market is fine....it's the schools continually dumping direct hires for agencies...and schools already using agencies are pressuring them to provide teachers for 30K per month or less, and if not they will switch. I know one school was using an agency that paid teachers 35K per month, school switched to agency paying teachers 28.5K per month. This is in BKK (Hua Mak). I can almost guarantee these teachers will not finish out the year at that salary because the school still expects all the nonsense, 6:30 AM Gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until 4PM...etc etc. This likely will be my last year teaching here...just tired of all the downward pressures on salary and upward pressures on duties.

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

As for duties, I've easily stated, but actually done the act of refusing to adhere to such outlandish requests as gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until school day complete, etc.(etc. includes written lesson plan submission for approval(and criticism) camps(weekends, share one star rooms without AC or hot water), Thai teacher meetings and parties(nights), temple days, workshop days(outside tutors brought in for O-Net prep), sports days)

Most people cannot simply refuse these requests. Doing so would constitute grounds for dismissal or non-renewal of contract. I am happy that you can but most of us cannot.

I think you can, actually.

Let's be honest - there are a lot of terrible teachers out there. Most survive by being overly polite and allowing themselves to be walked all over. But if you're a decent teacher, and the parents and kids like you, you're pretty much set. Sadly in Thailand - you're a rarity.

I've always let my teaching do the talking. It means I get away with doing less outside the classroom. It means I have more leverage. I reserve all my energy for the classroom and that shows.

Thai schools love the super animated and super polite 'farang teacher' Only problem is teaching is tough work and stressful. You can't have that energy everyday and maintain sanity. As to whether you can be a great teacher and perform all the duties outside of class with the same gusto - no, I don't think you can. Not in a productive way. Teachers need breaks. They need to be allowed to recharge their battery during the day so they teach well in lessons.

Just my opinion.

[tonray]

The market is fine....it's the schools continually dumping direct hires for agencies...and schools already using agencies are pressuring them to provide teachers for 30K per month or less, and if not they will switch. I know one school was using an agency that paid teachers 35K per month, school switched to agency paying teachers 28.5K per month. This is in BKK (Hua Mak). I can almost guarantee these teachers will not finish out the year at that salary because the school still expects all the nonsense, 6:30 AM Gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until 4PM...etc etc. This likely will be my last year teaching here...just tired of all the downward pressures on salary and upward pressures on duties.

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

As for duties, I've easily stated, but actually done the act of refusing to adhere to such outlandish requests as gate duty, cannot leave campus, must stay until school day complete, etc.(etc. includes written lesson plan submission for approval(and criticism) camps(weekends, share one star rooms without AC or hot water), Thai teacher meetings and parties(nights), temple days, workshop days(outside tutors brought in for O-Net prep), sports days)

Most people cannot simply refuse these requests. Doing so would constitute grounds for dismissal or non-renewal of contract. I am happy that you can but most of us cannot.

I think you can, actually.

Let's be honest - there are a lot of terrible teachers out there. Most survive by being overly polite and allowing themselves to be walked all over. But if you're a decent teacher, and the parents and kids like you, you're pretty much set. Sadly in Thailand - you're a rarity.

I've always let my teaching do the talking. It means I get away with doing less outside the classroom. It means I have more leverage. I reserve all my energy for the classroom and that shows.

Thai schools love the super animated and super polite 'farang teacher' Only problem is teaching is tough work and stressful. You can't have that energy everyday and maintain sanity. As to whether you can be a great teacher and perform all the duties outside of class with the same gusto - no, I don't think you can. Not in a productive way. Teachers need breaks. They need to be allowed to recharge their battery during the day so they teach well in lessons.

Just my opinion.

Of course you can refuse...but if you have been in Thai teaching for any length of time you know the consequences. Perhaps you don't lose your job but you lose the respect of the entire Thai staff who will henceforth look upon you with scorn. Is that any way to operate in any work environment ? Cheers to you 'rebels' but I would rather be thought well of than scorned behind my back.

[1phish2phish]

Yeah, sorry refusing is sour grapes. You asked about gate duty and camp before, yes, of course. I've recently been in touch with three frantic schools begging me to sign tomorrow based on credentials alone and the schools two are not Thai top 50, one actually is, but you'd know them. No, sorry I'm not going to commute out 1.5 hrs door to door of Bangkok for free to work for 36-38k I've turned down three of those in last two days. Also, I won't teach normal classes. It's EP/IP/Intl/Gifted or nothing. I turned down two top 50 schools weeks ago over wages and/or workload. At the other school, they wouldn't take no. Repeatedly emailing me. If you want to teach at a crap school to crap students for crap wages, please help yourself.

Edited May 17, 2016 by 1phish2phish

[rkidlad]

Of course you can refuse...but if you have been in Thai teaching for any length of time you know the consequences. Perhaps you don't lose your job but you lose the respect of the entire Thai staff who will henceforth look upon you with scorn. Is that any way to operate in any work environment ? Cheers to you 'rebels' but I would rather be thought well of than scorned behind my back.

I think you can, actually.

Most people cannot simply refuse these requests. Doing so would constitute grounds for dismissal or non-renewal of contract. I am happy that you can but most of us cannot.

Let's be honest - there are a lot of terrible teachers out there. Most survive by being overly polite and allowing themselves to be walked all over. But if you're a decent teacher, and the parents and kids like you, you're pretty much set. Sadly in Thailand - you're a rarity.

I've always let my teaching do the talking. It means I get away with doing less outside the classroom. It means I have more leverage. I reserve all my energy for the classroom and that shows.

Thai schools love the super animated and super polite 'farang teacher' Only problem is teaching is tough work and stressful. You can't have that energy everyday and maintain sanity. As to whether you can be a great teacher and perform all the duties outside of class with the same gusto - no, I don't think you can. Not in a productive way. Teachers need breaks. They need to be allowed to recharge their battery during the day so they teach well in lessons.

Just my opinion.

I'm in my classroom most of the time. I'm either teaching, prepping or chatting with the kids. If the staff want to gossip about me behind my back then crack on. I won't lose any sleep.

Most important people to have a good relationship with is the kids. Be nice to the thai staff, but you can't win them all. Don't have time nor the energy to flatter fragile egos and moody staff. I reserve that for the kids.

[Scott]

We have had teachers refused a new contract for not doing the 'extras' such as gate duty. I don't know of anyone who has been fired for it.

I do know of a teacher who was fired for parking in the wrong parking lot at the school, but as is usually the case, it was someone they didn't like and any excuse would do. That teacher also took that school to (labor) court and was awarded pay to the end of the contract.

[DP25]

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

The high school in my town pays their agency about 55k per month, for farang backpackers that take home 30k and stay for 1 term. They previously paid experienced direct hires with work permits around 35k but they have all been replaced.

Edited May 19, 2016 by DP25

[BruceMangosteen]

Seems like a lot of agencies and schools listing job openings for immediate starts. So, one can only include there is a supply problem caused by the wages being too low to attract even the lowest elements of the NES'ing countries. Airfares are now reasonable so that's not it. Must be a generational thing. I think they call them "Milinimum kids" however you spell it. Not looking for a "job" with an "adventure" as an English teacher in Thailand as they were before, last generation. Just my opinion but it sure reads like a lot more empty slots than in years past as the new school year rolls out and ASEAN kicks in.

[thequietman]

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

The high school in my town pays their agency about 55k per month, for farang backpackers that take home 30k and stay for 1 term. They previously paid experienced direct hires with work permits around 35k but they have all been replaced.

so, the balance is going where?

[BruceMangosteen]

Good points. Please clarify how much an "agency" can/does bill a school for a teacher paid 30,000.Baht a month(no VISA, Work Permit, or Social taxes paid)?

The high school in my town pays their agency about 55k per month, for farang backpackers that take home 30k and stay for 1 term. They previously paid experienced direct hires with work permits around 35k but they have all been replaced.

so, the balance is going where?

We can assume the agency makes this money. It's their business after all. The often spoken but never proven assertion that the Director's middle man is also in on the deal is there for consumption but who ever really knows. That's why there is a middle man. In addition, the agency won't be paid for October, and according to my information, not all of March and zero for April and not all of May. So while we continue to see a large number of schools and agencies advertising, we are perplexed as to why the Filipino's aren't here and being hired. "Something Wrong".

[simon43]

They haven't come here to give the kids an experience. They've come here to give themselves an experience.

Yep, like this quote, very true.

[Scott]

They haven't come here to give the kids an experience. They've come here to give themselves an experience.

Yep, like this quote, very true.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

[rkidlad]

They haven't come here to give the kids an experience. They've come here to give themselves an experience.

Yep, like this quote, very true.

The two are not mutually exclusive.

No, they're not. But I fail to see how the kids would experience weekends away on Samed and a month in Chiang Mai, etc. Unless the kids are doing so vicariously.