Redshirt leader Jatuporn given two years in jail for defamation charge

[The Deerhunter]

It's not looking good for Yingluck. Will she be next?

The short answer NO

Hmmm. That assumes the powers-that-be have at least a little common sense, which I too believed at one point, but which I no longer believe.

As much as I sympathise with YL, seeing her banged up would be a useful amount of fuel on what at the moment is a modest smoulder...

Winnie

Another unbelievably naive and ridiculous response Winnie. Care to go for a hat trick on this topic? Edit: Too late. Found No 3 (post 51) already and No 4 too, (post 54). But I am not looking for more. I have seen your avatar flash by several times so 5 or 6 is not impossible.

Edited June 10, 2016 by The Deerhunter

[Winniedapu]

It's not looking good for Yingluck. Will she be next?

The short answer NO

Hmmm. That assumes the powers-that-be have at least a little common sense, which I too believed at one point, but which I no longer believe.

As much as I sympathise with YL, seeing her banged up would be a useful amount of fuel on what at the moment is a modest smoulder...

Winnie

Another unbelievably naive and ridiculous response Winnie. Care to go for a hat trick on this topic? Edit: Too late. Found No 3 already and No 4 too. I am not looking for more.

Which I take to mean you don't agree. Less verbose to just say "I don't agree" I would have thought, but up to you of course.

As to naive, well, I guess we'll see.

It is odd though, according to my CP, I have you 'liking' one of the posts in this thread. An accident perhaps...

Have you considered the 'ignore' button? I'm told it's useful to block posters not to your liking. Worth a try...

Winnie

Edited June 10, 2016 by Winniedapu

[sweatalot]

Unsurprising.

Double standards.

Only to be expected from a corrupted and beholden judiciary with debts to pay.

Sadly.

W

Equally unsurprising.

Rote response.

Only to be expected from a Thaksin sycophant unable to recognise criminality.

Repeatedly.

H

Defamation..Criminality. Only to the ill informed and uneducated.

So killing 9 without a licence is a suspended sentence but stating the truth or calling someone a name is worth 2 years in the klink.

Thailand certainly attracts some imbeciles.

So you claim he was stating the truth?

and not trying to incite unrest and make people aggressive?

[sweatalot]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

In the context of how Jatuporn said what he did, i think the sentence is completely appropriate. He was using his speeches to incite violence and disorder. The lies he told were intended to whip up anger and hatred on a large scale, leading to bloodshed. Regardless of what side of the divide a person is on, they should be punished properly for that, not just a slap on the wrists.

But in that case he should have been charged with promoting insurrection or similar charges (I assume there is an equivalent law on the books), not defamation. The country was damaged by his actions, not Abhisit.

you mean not ONLY Abhisit

[sweatalot]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Edited June 10, 2016 by sweatalot

[moe666]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

I believe he has already had a couple of other defamation sentences suspended, maybe that is why the 2 year sentence

[Winniedapu]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

Edited June 10, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Roadman]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

"I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment. " Haha - "at the moment" - put your glasses on (or get to Specsavers urgently), step out from behind the thai sleaze that captures the focus of the lower brain and have a good look at Thailand past, present and future as it ain't gonna change.

Musical chairs...oh look its now this lot with power and look their buddies walk free while the opposition get jailed, bombed or shot. Cool lets have an election soon and then the other lot can have a turn. And look they even come complete with a pretty dollie (scores so many false brownie points these days with Hilary, Helen, Angie leading the way) to fork tongue the world stage with democracy fantasy.

People need to step back from political bias and look at thai society as a whole to where the deeper problems lie.

Have a look at the thai garbage from just this last week or two....corrupt cops and lazy arse scumbag monks just as a few examples who are suppose to be other model groups or citizens to set moral standards for the public to believe in with behaviors that if in western countries would all be doing serious prison time. The level of patronage and the acceptance of it in Thailand is immoral and it comes from the highest levels and copied all the way down through society.

So take your glasses back off, pull up your bar stool and have yet another beer, and let your lower brain engage on the latest Isaan rice farmers daughter feeding her family, cause the reality for Thailand is it is what it is and it ain't never gonna change for the foreseeable future.

Edited June 10, 2016 by Roadman

[kimamey]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I wasn't aware the redshirts (UDD) had taken part in any elections let alone won any. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

This thread isn't about elections or coups ect but there is a connection.

When PTP won the election in 2011 it was accepted despite the fairly obvious signs, including Yingluck as PM that there was outside control and parliament functioned roughly as it should albeit with some irregularities. The government promised justice for those killed in the 2010 protests after the inquiry held by the Democrat administration was accused of bias. The rules of engagement given to the army did not allow for the shooting of journalists and photographers who were facing and moving away from the army or the shooting of people helping the injured. In fact there were pretty strict rules in place that would probably not have sanctioned much of the shooting that took place. Robert Amsterdam's expert witness Joe Ray Witty claimed that the military were violating the rules of engagement that they were given. The army have denied much of this and as we know have not had the opportunity the counter this evidence in court. By the way in case you don't know Robert Amsterdam represents the redshirts and has claimed to be one of them so isn't really pro Abhisit.

There was a real effort to portray Abhisit and Suthep as having ordered the killing of the protesters by the army despite the evidence to the contrary. This came not only from Jutaporn but from Chalerm and Tarit of the DSI as well. Then someone had the bright idea of a blanket amnesty for many crimes committed or claimed to be committed by politicians and others in positions of power. This was important because although Yingluck had said they were going to look at Thaksin's conviction even if that had been overturned there were other cases as well. I never heard anymore about this so maybe there wasn't anything untoward about his conviction. One of the claimed plus points for this amnesty was that it wasn't "all about Thaksin" as it included many others. Amongst those others were Abhisit and Suthep. Now I could very quickly see that letting off 2 people that you've gone to great lengths to paint as murderers of redshirts to whom you've promised justice might cause a few problems but then I'm not weighed down with advanced education and political brilliance.

It's worth remembering that Thaksin had to stage one of his video rallies to apologise for the previous one where he'd spent most of it complaining that he couldn't come to Thailand without being arrested. Many of those listening to his first speech would have been supporters who had gone through considerable hardship backing him whilst he was living in luxury. I'm sure he claimed not to know who the redshirts were in 2010 but perhaps I'm wrong. It's great to have someone who's so in touch with the normal people.

Not surprisingly this amnesty including Abhisit and Suthep didn't go down too well with many amongst the redshirts. I can't remember Jutaporn's reaction but I think he sided with Thaksin rather than the angry redshirts but I'm sure he found it a bit difficult.

At this point a lot of people who didn't like Thaksin realised that this split and the obvious fact that Thaksin was effectively running much of the government was an ideal time to start a protest. This doesn't include the then general and his friends as we'll see later. We're all aware that the protests, like those in 2010 were largely peaceful but used by those who favoured violence as a cover and there were many injuries and deaths.

After the coup the general and his friends, who as you point out aren't all that smart failed to take advantage of the split in the redshirt support that the anti Thaksin supporters had exploited. Where I live in Isaan there are a lot of redshirts and they're perfectly reasonable people. A lot of them used to have Thaksin calendars but they seemed to disappear around the time of the attempted amnesty so there was a definite lessening of support for Thaksin if not for the PTP. None of this was used nor was there any attempt to gain support from moderate PTP members as far as I know. There could also have been a better approach to Yingluck who although she certainly aided Thaksin's plans and seemed not to carry out her duty my impression is that she isn't herself dishonest. Naive probably, possibly stupid but her popularity that we've seen recently and her tendency not to be confrontational could have been better used if only someone with foresight were in charge.

The shortsighted false accusations by Jutaporn and others, whilst not the whole reason for the problems of the PTP government certainly sowed the seeds of the cracks in the support from the redshirts that gave those opposed to them the opportunity to start a protest.

As for what happens now I don't know. There could be increased opposition from ordinary citizens on all sides at some point and lack of support from the rank and file in the military could also be crucial.

[metisdead]

Please use discretion in your references to the government. Phrases which can be considered as anti-coup will be removed. Referring to Thailand or the government as a dictatorship, military dictatorship or other such terms will be removed.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/878797-updated-notice-to-members-posting-in-thailand-news/

[wprime]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

There's always a lack of impartiality, it just so happens to be against the red shirts now.

[daveAustin]

Should have got 10. I expect two years will be no promphan for him.

[doode]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

In the context of how Jatuporn said what he did, i think the sentence is completely appropriate. He was using his speeches to incite violence and disorder. The lies he told were intended to whip up anger and hatred on a large scale, leading to bloodshed. Regardless of what side of the divide a person is on, they should be punished properly for that, not just a slap on the wrists.

Exactly!

In that time I heard his morning adresses every day.

That b¥tch deserves jail

[chainarong]

It's not looking good for Yingluck. Will she be next?

The short answer NO

Hmmm. That assumes the powers-that-be have at least a little common sense, which I too believed at one point, but which I no longer believe.

As much as I sympathise with YL, seeing her banged up would be a useful amount of fuel on what at the moment is a modest smoulder...

Winnie

True Winnie and someone at the top is a good friend or used to be , a suspended sentence would be the way to go. It may well be, we seem to be doing something , when in fact we are going to do bugger all..

Edited June 11, 2016 by chainarong

[scorecard]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

There's always a lack of impartiality, it just so happens to be against the red shirts now.

Is it all really one sided? Perhaps you might recall the very senior government accounting officer / lady who tried to blow the whistle about the rice scam and ultimately she was correct. When she spoke up the red government very quickly gagged her and moved her out.

[scorecard]

A new proof that Thailand is the contrary of a democratic country and is 555 years back in time compared to Europe.

How's that?

[Winniedapu]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I wasn't aware the redshirts (UDD) had taken part in any elections let alone won any. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

I wasn't aware the redshirts (UDD) had taken part in any elections let alone won any. Maybe I haven't been paying attention.

Perhaps you haven't. I said Redshirts, *you* said UDD. The redshirts were a bloc before the UDD formalised it.

I'm sure this is just an unwitting mis-statement, but, even though this is Thailand, the whole point is that *all eligible voters" have the right to elect a government.. Of course the UDD took part in elections, and before the UDD became an entity, the people who later became a part of the UDD still participated.

That's why the Thaksin and Thaksin-affilated parties always won.

In any event, that lack of insight really ruined the post for me and I pretty much stopped reading right there. The rest of the post might well be better but I shall wait until it is reposted.

Winnie

Edited June 11, 2016 by Winniedapu

[daveAustin]

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000.

Blinkers, much. Won. Bought.

[Winniedapu]

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000.

Blinkers, much. Won. Bought.

Oh puhlease. Not the old *vote buying* refrain again.

It's been shown to be nonsense time and time again, but some of the old faithfuls keep trotting it out.

At best it shows an almost pooch-like loyalty to those who have been repeatedly been shown not to deserve loyalty. Touching in some ways I suppose.

But not intelligent.

Winnie

Edited June 11, 2016 by Winniedapu

[wabothai]

Double post.

Sorry.

My internet connection has just come back after being down for the 4th time in 8 days.

Sometimes it doesn't seem to post but it does post sneakily.

Blame Thaksin.

W

I would love to do that but to be fair it has nothing to do with Thaksin at all.

My TOT internet is a WiNet connection and is connected by a microwave link to a base station in Klong Lan some 5 km away. That base station seems to have a fault as it has crashed the link 4 times in 8 days.

One time I can accept as it has been running OK for nearly a year apart from the New Year when some drunk driver rammed a power pole and took out the power and fibre optic links.

A second time 2 days later leads me to believe that the "fix" wasn't the problem.

The third one 8 hours later leads me to believe that the TOT "expert" teams is worse than useless.

The 4th one 48 hours later makes me believe that the team of experts came from the home for the sick, lame, lazy, stupid and congenitally moronic cretins.

The good news is that when I go there next week and pay my bill TOT have promised me a discount. That may change when I explain about all the other users hanging on the WiNet out here.

Repeat 10 times every day in the comfort of your own home:

"All Thais are incompetent. They're all and always in the sh|t, it's only ever the depth that varies. They choose to always be incompetent and in the sh|t. How much respect can I be expected to have for someone who chooses to be incompetent and at least semi-submerged in sh|t all the time?"

I guarantee after just a few days, you will have a completely different perspective on Thailand and Thais.

It's like having a dog which habitually craps on your carpet. There's no point scolding, the dog doesn't understand. There's no point thrashing it, the dog won't understand why you're thrashing it. The dog reads body language and body language among humans is pretty universal, the dog understand it. You have to teach the dog in a language which it understands.

The Thai will read the contempt in your eyes, they'll hear it in your voice, they'll see it in your body and facial language. They'll pretend they don't care, but the one thing a Thai cannot abide is being viewed with contempt, especially by foreigners whom they already feel inferior to.

Nothing else seems to work...

W

ps: Before the censors arrive, this is not to say I think Thais are dogs, it's just an example, cats are the same, and small children. It's not perjorative. It's how living and intelligent creatures behave, it's universal.

When you start to realize that thai are reading your contempt it is time to pack up. Well said.

[Artisi]

As much as I despise the toad, I do believe that if this had been a person from the other side of the political divide, the sentence would have been suspended.

I cannot help but feel that there is a lack of impartiality at the moment.

In the context of how Jatuporn said what he did, i think the sentence is completely appropriate. He was using his speeches to incite violence and disorder. The lies he told were intended to whip up anger and hatred on a large scale, leading to bloodshed. Regardless of what side of the divide a person is on, they should be punished properly for that, not just a slap on the wrists.

If you regard even two minutes, let alone two years, behind bars in a Thai jail as a slap on the wrist then you clearly know nothing about the Thai penal system.

Are you speaking from the point of authority or experience?

[Winniedapu]

Blame Thaksin.

W

I would love to do that but to be fair it has nothing to do with Thaksin at all.

My TOT internet is a WiNet connection and is connected by a microwave link to a base station in Klong Lan some 5 km away. That base station seems to have a fault as it has crashed the link 4 times in 8 days.

One time I can accept as it has been running OK for nearly a year apart from the New Year when some drunk driver rammed a power pole and took out the power and fibre optic links.

A second time 2 days later leads me to believe that the "fix" wasn't the problem.

The third one 8 hours later leads me to believe that the TOT "expert" teams is worse than useless.

The 4th one 48 hours later makes me believe that the team of experts came from the home for the sick, lame, lazy, stupid and congenitally moronic cretins.

The good news is that when I go there next week and pay my bill TOT have promised me a discount. That may change when I explain about all the other users hanging on the WiNet out here.

Repeat 10 times every day in the comfort of your own home:

"All Thais are incompetent. They're all and always in the sh|t, it's only ever the depth that varies. They choose to always be incompetent and in the sh|t. How much respect can I be expected to have for someone who chooses to be incompetent and at least semi-submerged in sh|t all the time?"

I guarantee after just a few days, you will have a completely different perspective on Thailand and Thais.

It's like having a dog which habitually craps on your carpet. There's no point scolding, the dog doesn't understand. There's no point thrashing it, the dog won't understand why you're thrashing it. The dog reads body language and body language among humans is pretty universal, the dog understand it. You have to teach the dog in a language which it understands.

The Thai will read the contempt in your eyes, they'll hear it in your voice, they'll see it in your body and facial language. They'll pretend they don't care, but the one thing a Thai cannot abide is being viewed with contempt, especially by foreigners whom they already feel inferior to.

Nothing else seems to work...

W

ps: Before the censors arrive, this is not to say I think Thais are dogs, it's just an example, cats are the same, and small children. It's not perjorative. It's how living and intelligent creatures behave, it's universal.

When you start to realize that thai are reading your contempt it is time to pack up. Well said.

If you're still working and have to get along with Thais, then what you say is probably true. I took early retirement because I was sick of the rat-race, and yet in my first years here, trying to persuade Thais to like/love me for me and not the money (as we all do to start with, even those who say they don't), I see now how I just exchanged one thankless rat-race for another. But that all changed when I recognised it.

To be candid, if Thais see that I have contempt for them, I don't care, I'm always polite whether I feel contempt or not. Of course they do sometimes see it, and in practice, it counterbalances the contempt/fear they have for foreigners, European and otherwise (in my experience Thais have contempt for anyone who is not Thai - it's a part of the 'Thai exceptionalism' we've talked about before).

So I don't really care if they see my contempt or not. money talks louder. I've never failed to get someone to do some work for money because they see I don't like them, and the occasional chang to do stuff I can't or won't do is useful. My education and profession enables me to understand and see right through most people, and Thais are particularly transparent in my experience. Understanding breeds contempt as I saw someone else write in a book a while back.

I don't care if they like me, my family likes me just fine. I have a bank balance, a decent vehicle, we own the house and land, we have no debt so things are pretty good - now. Since I learned not to give a toss if Thais like me or not. We try to be pretty self-sufficient (not to be confused with the 'sufficiency theory', which I believe is a lot of nonsense fed to the poor to keep them poor and stupid).

So, bottom line? If I want a friend I'll buy a dog.

Winnie

Edited June 11, 2016 by Winniedapu

[ramrod711]

Double post.

Sorry.

My internet connection has just come back after being down for the 4th time in 8 days.

Sometimes it doesn't seem to post but it does post sneakily.

Blame Thaksin.

W

I would love to do that but to be fair it has nothing to do with Thaksin at all.

My TOT internet is a WiNet connection and is connected by a microwave link to a base station in Klong Lan some 5 km away. That base station seems to have a fault as it has crashed the link 4 times in 8 days.

One time I can accept as it has been running OK for nearly a year apart from the New Year when some drunk driver rammed a power pole and took out the power and fibre optic links.

A second time 2 days later leads me to believe that the "fix" wasn't the problem.

The third one 8 hours later leads me to believe that the TOT "expert" teams is worse than useless.

The 4th one 48 hours later makes me believe that the team of experts came from the home for the sick, lame, lazy, stupid and congenitally moronic cretins.

The good news is that when I go there next week and pay my bill TOT have promised me a discount. That may change when I explain about all the other users hanging on the WiNet out here.

Repeat 10 times every day in the comfort of your own home:

"All Thais are incompetent. They're all and always in the sh|t, it's only ever the depth that varies. They choose to always be incompetent and in the sh|t. How much respect can I be expected to have for someone who chooses to be incompetent and at least semi-submerged in sh|t all the time?"

I guarantee after just a few days, you will have a completely different perspective on Thailand and Thais.

It's like having a dog which habitually craps on your carpet. There's no point scolding, the dog doesn't understand. There's no point thrashing it, the dog won't understand why you're thrashing it. The dog reads body language and body language among humans is pretty universal, the dog understand it. You have to teach the dog in a language which it understands.

The Thai will read the contempt in your eyes, they'll hear it in your voice, they'll see it in your body and facial language. They'll pretend they don't care, but the one thing a Thai cannot abide is being viewed with contempt, especially by foreigners whom they already feel inferior to.

Nothing else seems to work...

W

ps: Before the censors arrive, this is not to say I think Thais are dogs, it's just an example, cats are the same, and small children. It's not perjorative. It's how living and intelligent creatures behave, it's universal.

This from a guy with 729 posts, who knows all about Thais and Thailand. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that Thais think of you as less than human and view you with contempt.

[billd766]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I am sorry to point out to you that the Red Shirts or the UDD to give them their correct title are NOT a political party at all. Nor did they even exist until 2006.

The parties that won the election in 2000 and 2004 was the TRT owned by Thaksin Shinawatra but this party was disbanded for election fraud and was only a caretaker government at the time of the last but one coup. When that military government handed back the power to the people.

The election was won by the PPP (also owned by Thaksin) and the PM was Samak Sundaravaj who was removed by the courts as he was also being paid by a TV programme (a charge he denied). He could have gone back to being the PM but the PPP owner decided on nepotism and brought his brother in law, Somchai Wongsawat in as PM.

The PPP was also disbanded for election fraud and couldn't form a government so the Democrats as the next largest party and though some horse trading (much as every government has done since 1932) managed to form a government.

At the next election they lost power to the TRT (yet another party owned by Thaksin) and keeping to nepotism he sister, despite having no political experience at all was elected as PM.

Several years later Yingluck dissolved parliament and called a general election but this was not held and after a brief period the current government took power.

I am not commenting on who was right or wrong, guilty or not guilty, and of what charges but merely pointing out that the UDD has never been a political party nor to my knowledge has the UDD ever held an election for the senior positions in the group.

No matter what their spokespersons say they are not a political party, nor do I think that they would want to be as that would probably split the vote and take many votes away from the next Thaksin party and that may in turn allow another party to form a government.

[Plutojames88]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

There is no question civil War is on track.

With every jailed red shirt .

Every sentence .

Oppressive directive.

Disempowerment .

Biased judgement.

The Elephant will awaken .

It's clear that will happen.

And when it does it will quickly escalate out of all control

[Winniedapu]

Blame Thaksin.

W

I would love to do that but to be fair it has nothing to do with Thaksin at all.

My TOT internet is a WiNet connection and is connected by a microwave link to a base station in Klong Lan some 5 km away. That base station seems to have a fault as it has crashed the link 4 times in 8 days.

One time I can accept as it has been running OK for nearly a year apart from the New Year when some drunk driver rammed a power pole and took out the power and fibre optic links.

A second time 2 days later leads me to believe that the "fix" wasn't the problem.

The third one 8 hours later leads me to believe that the TOT "expert" teams is worse than useless.

The 4th one 48 hours later makes me believe that the team of experts came from the home for the sick, lame, lazy, stupid and congenitally moronic cretins.

The good news is that when I go there next week and pay my bill TOT have promised me a discount. That may change when I explain about all the other users hanging on the WiNet out here.

Repeat 10 times every day in the comfort of your own home:

"All Thais are incompetent. They're all and always in the sh|t, it's only ever the depth that varies. They choose to always be incompetent and in the sh|t. How much respect can I be expected to have for someone who chooses to be incompetent and at least semi-submerged in sh|t all the time?"

I guarantee after just a few days, you will have a completely different perspective on Thailand and Thais.

It's like having a dog which habitually craps on your carpet. There's no point scolding, the dog doesn't understand. There's no point thrashing it, the dog won't understand why you're thrashing it. The dog reads body language and body language among humans is pretty universal, the dog understand it. You have to teach the dog in a language which it understands.

The Thai will read the contempt in your eyes, they'll hear it in your voice, they'll see it in your body and facial language. They'll pretend they don't care, but the one thing a Thai cannot abide is being viewed with contempt, especially by foreigners whom they already feel inferior to.

Nothing else seems to work...

W

ps: Before the censors arrive, this is not to say I think Thais are dogs, it's just an example, cats are the same, and small children. It's not perjorative. It's how living and intelligent creatures behave, it's universal.

This from a guy with 729 posts, who knows all about Thais and Thailand. I don't suppose it ever occurred to you that Thais think of you as less than human and view you with contempt.

Well, I don't know *all* about Thais or Thailand, but I'll wager I know more than some and as much as most. Not sure what the number of posts signifies though, a bit of a mystery there.

And Thais treat *all* foreigners with contempt if they cannot feel superior to them... This is basic psychology, and it applies to all nationalities which think they are better than the others (the worst imho are the Chinese,the Thais, the Israelis and the Americans, though out of them all, the Thais have least reason to feel superior to anyone). So yes, it had occurred to me, but thanks for pointing it out anyway.

Not sure what your point was though. Actually. no, that's not right, I know exactly what your point was. Doubtless if I had posted 2609. I would have more street-cred.

Have a nice day.

Winnie.

[Winniedapu]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I am sorry to point out to you that the Red Shirts or the UDD to give them their correct title are NOT a political party at all. Nor did they even exist until 2006.

The parties that won the election in 2000 and 2004 was the TRT owned by Thaksin Shinawatra but this party was disbanded for election fraud and was only a caretaker government at the time of the last but one coup. When that military government handed back the power to the people.

The election was won by the PPP (also owned by Thaksin) and the PM was Samak Sundaravaj who was removed by the courts as he was also being paid by a TV programme (a charge he denied). He could have gone back to being the PM but the PPP owner decided on nepotism and brought his brother in law, Somchai Wongsawat in as PM.

The PPP was also disbanded for election fraud and couldn't form a government so the Democrats as the next largest party and though some horse trading (much as every government has done since 1932) managed to form a government.

At the next election they lost power to the TRT (yet another party owned by Thaksin) and keeping to nepotism he sister, despite having no political experience at all was elected as PM.

Several years later Yingluck dissolved parliament and called a general election but this was not held and after a brief period the current government took power.

I am not commenting on who was right or wrong, guilty or not guilty, and of what charges but merely pointing out that the UDD has never been a political party nor to my knowledge has the UDD ever held an election for the senior positions in the group.

No matter what their spokespersons say they are not a political party, nor do I think that they would want to be as that would probably split the vote and take many votes away from the next Thaksin party and that may in turn allow another party to form a government.

Sorry Bill, the point about the red-shirts appears to have gone completely over your head. No offence but you mustn't confuse political parties with the people who vote for them, the electorate wins elections, political parties merely vie for their votes. A fine distinction perhaps, but an important one. Voters select those they wish to represent them in parliament, hence voters win, not parties, though I grant that's often not how it is portrayed.

In the constitution that the treasonous rebels tore up, ultimate sovereign power is vested in the people. Not parties. The people win over other people.

Winnie

Edited June 11, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Khun Han]

I strongly suspect that, on looking back, perhaps in 2017, Jatuporn will prove to have been the catalyst, or a major player behind YL if she is the catalyst.

Making a martyr of Jatuporn might not have been a really smart idea, and it's the little general who will be blamed. With ultimate power comes ultimate responsibility and the little general gave himself ultimate power.

I guess we'll see, but I think I'll put a bag of popcorn in the cooker...

Closer than we think., The rusty wire that holds the cork that keeps the anger in is rustier than we think... (apologies to RW).

Winnie

I don't experience any anger among Thai people.

OK - I have no contact to red Shirts but anyway - they are a minority

Well, since it's largely the red shirts who are angry, and who are getting angrier, which sort of invalidates your comment a bit because, as you say, you have no contact with them. Doesn't take a genius to see what's happening though, which is probably a good thing because there are very few Thai geniuses.

The redshirts won all free elections since 2000. I can't help but wonder how they could do so if they were an electoral minority. They may be population minority, but that is a useless fact because It isn't about numbers of supporters, it's about numbers of people who will stand and fight, in whatever fashion might suit them against highly regimented and formulaic soldiers who have little real intelligence and can't adapt quickly.

Since Suthep's claim of 3.5 million people in BKK representing the 'great mass of the people" was only about 200,000, and according to some observers they used aerial photos from the 60th anniversary celebrations anyway, we get a more realistic assessment of where the real power lies, and it isn't necessarily in the yellow direction. The balance is tipping. The landed barons know this and some of them are (as we speak) making arrangements to srore small mouintains of wealth outside of Thailand.

Prayuth is really worried about the redshirts, and because he isn't very smart, he's poking the sleeping dog while he rides the tiger (sorry to mix metaphors). This arrogance will likely cost him dearly, bless him, he's not the brightest start in the sky on a good day. His actions have been largely triggered by events not under his control, hence his frequently bad temper - he knows he's not in control. He doesn't have much personal choice in the path he's following. More and more I think this man (whom I personally believe to be a few sandwiches short of a full picnic) is going to become the fulcrum, around which Thailand will come crashing down around his ears.

The unpredictable thing is whether or not the propagandised people in North and North-East have awoken up enough to be angry and prepared to stand and fight, come the day. Consider that, in conjunction with what will be a huge psychological crisis precipitated by an event we can't talk about, and I think there are reasons to think that the country will likely become a story of accelerating disintegration - a process that has probably already started. Partly because of the ineptitude of Prayuth and his merry men, and partly because the propaganda over several decades has caused most Thais to strongly identify and associate themselves with one idea; when that idea disappears, the focus of their identification will suddenly not be there. This is likely to generate a perfect storm. Combine that with an already simmering resentment towards Prayuth and the feudal barons, and Prayuth's inept management of the country and ... well, I think you can guess what may lay in store as well as I can. Prayuth certainly can unless I miss my guess. And that's before we factor in rival sections of the armed forces and police that may not support him.

A possible wildcard in this game of cards, is the secessionists in the south of Thailand, who are slowly discovering (via whatever trouble-makers there may be down there) that their future lies, not necessarily in bombing the south but perhaps in aiming a bit to the north to achieve their goals. This is also something that worries the generalissimo.

Just a few thoughts, perhaps they have no merit. But then again, perhaps they do. Who's to say? The disadvantage of having 65,000,000 people in an essentially chaotic and disorganised culture is that prediction becomes difficult.

Winnie

I am sorry to point out to you that the Red Shirts or the UDD to give them their correct title are NOT a political party at all. Nor did they even exist until 2006.

The parties that won the election in 2000 and 2004 was the TRT owned by Thaksin Shinawatra but this party was disbanded for election fraud and was only a caretaker government at the time of the last but one coup. When that military government handed back the power to the people.

The election was won by the PPP (also owned by Thaksin) and the PM was Samak Sundaravaj who was removed by the courts as he was also being paid by a TV programme (a charge he denied). He could have gone back to being the PM but the PPP owner decided on nepotism and brought his brother in law, Somchai Wongsawat in as PM.

The PPP was also disbanded for election fraud and couldn't form a government so the Democrats as the next largest party and though some horse trading (much as every government has done since 1932) managed to form a government.

At the next election they lost power to the TRT (yet another party owned by Thaksin) and keeping to nepotism he sister, despite having no political experience at all was elected as PM.

Several years later Yingluck dissolved parliament and called a general election but this was not held and after a brief period the current government took power.

I am not commenting on who was right or wrong, guilty or not guilty, and of what charges but merely pointing out that the UDD has never been a political party nor to my knowledge has the UDD ever held an election for the senior positions in the group.

No matter what their spokespersons say they are not a political party, nor do I think that they would want to be as that would probably split the vote and take many votes away from the next Thaksin party and that may in turn allow another party to form a government.

You do yourself no favours by going to great lengths and detail in picking holes in the various Thaksinista governments, whilst breezing past all the other side's shenanigans. This one's a classic:

"Several years later Yingluck dissolved parliament and called a general election but this was not held and after a brief period the current government took power."

[halloween]

The major amendment I would like to see is making a defense of provably true statements. But I fully support criminal defamation where there is no truth provable.

Why? Let's say it becomes a civil matter only, with monetary penalties and retractions the only options. During an election an un-named billionaire gets his stooges to tell horrendous lies about his political opponents, with a guarantee to pay all fines. How do you redress the wrong done?

Levying fines on a man with the financial backing of a billionaire is obviously ineffective, and clearly a double standard. And by the time the matter reaches court, the election has been decided, with possibly many votes affected by false statements. Does that fit well with your definition of democracy?

"How do you redress the wrong done?"

You show the lies up for what they are and thus discredit the liars in the eyes of the general public. It's called campaigning, and it's a system that's been proven to work pretty well when it's allowed to .

So you spend most of your campaign refuting vicious smears and hoping that none of the mud sticks? Where exactly does it work that way?

[Khun Han]

It works because you discredit your opposition by showing them up as unsavoury liars in the eyes of the general public, who decide not to vote for unsavoury liars. That's if you are any good as a politician, of course. If you're not, you don't deserve to get elected anyway. It's a system that works fantastically well in democracies.