Is This Typical Moo Baan Behavior Or...........

[1Gringo]

I admit to being a neophyte at living in a gated moo baan and this is my first experience of Korat. among our questions prior to renting was whether or not we'd be responsible for moo baan fees and dues and were informed that we would not.

but the worm has turned. maybe.

big emergency meetings in the past two weeks. apparently the moo baan budget is zilch and headed below that because of this or that obligation. many services have been eliminated or curtailed already. seems the moo baan tenant occupancy has well exceeded owner occupancy and some owners haven't paid their fees in 10 years. in my case, only two, but...

what the moo baan association is proposing is that the water services to properties where the owner is delinquent will be cut off if dues aren't paid.

I'm not sure how this impacts the absentee owner but it makes the house and tenant's life unlivable.

I know lawyers can attach liens to houses but the payout only occurs when the house is eventually sold, not before. otherwise I'm not sure there is a legal coercion which would force the hand of an owner. so this has the feel of a power play between the (for brevity I'm going to call this a) Home Owner's Association (HOA) management and the owners. is it? or what is it?

tenants living in houses where water is going to be denied are very likely to move. this will have an eventual impact on the owners. I'll be damned if I'm going to live in a house with no water. I can offer to pay my owner's dues in lieu of rent and soldier on. I'm not sure that is going to be acceptable to the owner, but <deleted>? and I'm not sure how many other tenants can, could or would do this with their respective owners/landlords.

are these dramas a regular feature of moo baans or is this an anomaly?

[trojanhorse]

You as a renter should not be liable for fees it should say so in the contract, these are the owners responsibility

mobile

[daveAustin]

IME, I've gone halves with owner on fees. Even though it's their property, I'm have the benefit of services/clubhouse etc.

In the no-name/fly-by-night moobahns, people often don't pay followed by subsequent downgrade of maintenance and eventual lowering of property values. If buying, always best to stick to the big name moobahns, like Land & Houses. Some people don't pay there either, but they nonetheless keep up maintenance and services.

[SantiSuk]

If your landlord has not been paying fees that he should and you expect to be foced to pay those fees in a situation where the landlord is obliged to pay I would write a friendly note (preferable to keep everything in writing) and get it translated. "Understand you've not been paying/understand you should have been paying/this is for landlords account/if you don't pay I'll have to pay and reduce the rent payments accordingly.

But I defer to anyone with actual Thai experience in this situation. Mine is as a residents rep on a condo committee in another country, where lawyers advised "keep it friendly/do everything in writing/keep lawyers letters for later!

[meatboy]

You as a renter should not be liable for fees it should say so in the contract, these are the owners responsibility

mobile

what contract? if the op has one,if not he leave's himself wide open for anything that come's along.

all or most moobans have a community charge that covers,electric,security,cleaners and maintinance.this is useually worked out as per.ground size.

all new owners or tennants should check out the state of the place first.

eg.nearly bought a house on one of land and house's moobans 10yrs.ago went back to have a look at the place 3yrs.later IT WAS LIKE A RUBBISH TIP.

[mikebell]

I am so glad I live in a Mooban in Bang Saray which is a Juristic Entity. The Committee is 4 farangs/3 Thais. Of 62 houses, 61 paid on time last year thanks to a discount scheme for annual fees. We publish monthly accounts; have a proper accountant + office manager and 1.5 million in the bank. Renters have full use of pool/gym and owners pay the Maintenance fee.

Living in such a stable & solvent environment must be worth thousands a year. Most houses sell at 4 million & rent at 25K a month. It's a stress free life here at Dhewee Park.org

PM me for more info.

[thailand49]

This is really a common problem. This is something people when buying or renting need to check into before the enter into the contract. First the responsibility is with the owner period, if you are renting you need to make sure this part is agree on whether owner or renter is going to pay in your rental contract. You need to speak to the landlord or owner and address the problem and get a solution right away. Basically he pay up or you will move! It might be better if you just lose the deposit than deal with the results. A reasonable owner would allow you to pay the rears on the due and then allow you to take it off each month. A few years back had a friend in the same situation the Thai owner got real stupid love getting the rent each month but never paid the dues wouldn't pay and wouldn't work it out. My friend said he was leaving basically breaking the contract owner said go ahead no deposit back. See I look at people like this whether Thai or not that have the ability to own property but shouldn't. My friend and I very similar he basically looked for another place moved all his stuff to his new place but time it so he didn't pay the last month rent, took out the deposit money on the owner A/C units, hot water heaters, and a water pump. He moved and changed changed his Sim card on his phone. Whether renting or not always check how well runs is the Association that is running the complex and especially how they spend the money and how many aren't paying. Yours is a very common problem especially in the Pattaya area from my experience.

[Fookhaht]

As with a million other things here, they start new and shiny, then degrade without proper maintenance and/or management.

I'm working in a three-year old building complex. Now: walkway pavers broken up, air conditioners broken, elevators stopped working, lights burned out, office door locks broken, toilets constantly running, ad infinitum.

You just learn to roll with it or get out (of the company, school, moo-ban, country). Once I accepted this, my stress levels went WAY down.

[Farang99]

When I bought a house in my present moo baan 18 years ago there was a charge for maintenance - a lump sum which I was assured would be a once only payment. This was when interest rates were 10-12%. As the interest on the combined lump sum declined the management began to eat into the original sum to pay costs, with the result that about 6 years ago the kitty was empty and they came round saying we would all now have to pay a monthly charge. This did not go down at all well, and many of the houses refused to pay, but the rest of us grin wryly and bear it.

[1Gringo]

thanks for the input!

[bazza40]

Explain to the landlord he/she is going to find it really difficult to find any replacement tenants if the baan has no water. If they still won't budge, walk away. The moo baan's problems are the property owners', not yours.

I'll take a small bet the management have been financing their own lifestyle out of the moo baan kitty. Seems to be a frequent occurrence in Thailand.

[topt]

OP unless the water bills are paid by the moo baan (highly unlikely) then I do not think that legally they can cut off the water. We looked at this and were told by a lawyer that it can only be done by the water authority. They would have to go round and individually remove peoples water meters.

If they can legally do this please let me know as we could use this in our village to force a few people to pay up!

[Tomtomtom69]

I live in a moo baan. We pay all our dues but I know quite a lot of owners don't. Our moo baan, probably like most of them has quite a few vacant properties, many of which have been vacant for years. Some look as though they've never been lived in. So obviously they're not paying the moo baan association fees.

I would second the advice of those that suggested writing a note but before you do this, how about you contact your landlord and ask whether the fees have been paid?

[laislica]

I believe that when the moo bhan is being constructed, the builder's office takes care of the community charges and responsibilities for security, lighting, cleaning etc.

The builder wants it to look inviting so they can sell their houses.

If a few folk don't pay their dues, the builder often doesn't care, they just take up the slack.

When the builder decides to hand it over to a committee, the fun starts.

Some owners fail to pay, others get annoyed and also stop paying and the moo bhan goes to hell.

If you are lucky, all goes well.

If not, rent somewhere else!

[thailand49]

I should also add, this is really the weakness of whoever is in charge to allow owners whether they live or do not live in the complex to get away with this type of behavior. I can safely say even in Thailand when the owners purchased there is a written clause regarding the penalty if the Dues aren't paid! They just need to enforce it! Every well run complex and not many from my experience is every month a Statement should be provided to every owner or rental as to where the money is being spent and how much is in the account, this is the number one factor in buying or renting!

[Thingamabob]

Yes...typical.

[MyFrenU]

"Living in such a stable & solvent environment must be worth thousands a year."

I wonder if that's due to the foreigners or the locals then?
This is the problem with owning property in Thailand and I would say especially for an apartment in Thailand,the foreigners should by law have a work permit to manage an apartment building or moo ban that I'm pretty sure they can't get.
That means a Thai management company takes over and guess what,they spend the money on fast cars and mia nois until it's all gone then do a runner,while the owners are left waiting for the next local management company to do exactly the same!

[claffey]

IME, I've gone halves with owner on fees. Even though it's their property, I'm have the benefit of services/clubhouse etc.

In the no-name/fly-by-night moobahns, people often don't pay followed by subsequent downgrade of maintenance and eventual lowering of property values. If buying, always best to stick to the big name moobahns, like Land & Houses. Some people don't pay there either, but they nonetheless keep up maintenance and services.

People who rent are not liable for maintenance fees. Anyone who pays part or all of the fees are very naive and being taken for a ride by the landlord...

[Travel2003]

I asked my neighbors about if this happened. They have no idea what to do if this happens.

But then again, we have issues with neighbor dogs roaming the Moobaan, which nobody wants to touch.

[wasisdn]

Our Moo Baan has a swimming pool which maintenance is quite expensive. On part of the neighborhood (mostly owners) never paid for anything and argument they don't care about garbage, security, gardener, bla bla. Actually I'm paying and I don't care about the pool but others which still paying says, if we stop maintaining or close down the swimming pool to save money they will stop paying anything...

Any idea how to motivate (or force the owners at least to pay a minimum amount for maintain the estate?

[TerryLH]

"People who rent are not liable for maintenance fees. Anyone who pays part or all of the fees are very naive and being taken for a ride by the landlord..."

 

Isn't it naive to think that the fees aren't built into your rent?  Whether the landlord passes the fee on is another matter.