So what did the Brexit supporters gain?

[SgtRock]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

In April 2015 the Guardian had a daily circulation of only 178,758. Hardly representative of the UK as a whole.

 

 

The Guardian must be the most Pro EU rag in circulation. I do read the Guardian, although it is now getting so disjointed and publishing articles that are not fit to be used as bog roll, that I am starting to drift away from it.

 

This from yesterday.

 

Quote

The nationalist, anti-immigration, anti-European Union FN, which wants to leave the euro and favours French people over immigrants in giving out state benefits, remains the most significant far-right party in western Europe and has made big electoral gains in recent years. In the past five years, it has gone from from no presence in parliament to seats in both the lower house and the senate, 11 mayors and hundreds of local councillors at different levels. It has expanded its traditional voter base to new groups, including senior public sector workers in the police, hospitals and schools.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/18/nation-state-marine-le-pen-global-mood-france-brexit-trump-front-national

 

This mirrors AfD in Germany.

 

So again, my answer to the OP is nothing yet. Great play by the PM delaying A50. Sit back, feet up and watch the EU change forever in 2017.

 

It will be a very different future vision of the EU and it will be interesting to see who wants to be negotiating with who.

 

One thing is certain. The UK will be in the right position, right at the head of those talks.

[Craig krup]

On 9/18/2016 at 3:47 AM, KonaRain said:

Someone said on bbc, from Europe, that the Union might proceed nicely, without reluctant UK always dragging its heels, kicking and screaming..
Something like that,
not trying to start anything.
Aloha

 

Today's big story is that Moody's have admitted that the whole hoo ha about "passporting" and the supposed problems that the financial services industry will suffer after a hard Brexit is nonsense. There isn't a problem, just as I said (repeatedly, with arguments, to anyone who would listen) at the time. 

 

Then we've got the Visygrad group saying they don't want any migrants. 

 

Then we've got the leave Article 50 deal being a QMV matter, so the bitter and twisted states won't be able to stop the Germans, French and Spanish forcing through the free trade agenda that they need to avoid being screwed. Juncker's an irrelevance, it's the major countries who have the power, the European economy (and especially German cars, French farms and Spanish tourism) can't take a hit - it's all good. We're free, we called their bluff, and now we need to crack on. 

[SgtRock]

8 hours ago, Craig krup said:

Today's big story is that Moody's have admitted that the whole hoo ha about "passporting" and the supposed problems that the financial services industry will suffer after a hard Brexit is nonsense.

 

Moody's 

 

Were they not one of the cited experts that were shouting loud and proud that the UK would suffer immediate financial armageddon  in the event of an out vote ?

 

Quote

Fears that the UK would see a mass exodus of banks in the event of a “hardBrexit” have been downplayed by one of the world’s three big rating agencies in a report that says the impact on the City would be modest and manageable.

An analysis by Moody’s said there would be a loss of business if the referendum result leads to Britain leaving the single market as well as the EU, but the impact would be less serious than some experts have suggested.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/19/hard-brexit-would-have-only-modest-impact-on-city-says-moodys

 

Agreed

 

Bluffs have been called. The threatening rhetoric from the EU and the chimpanzees that reside in the various commissions and councils is diminishing by the day.

 

40 years of EU Eurocrats fantasy is now being smashed into oblivion by a wrecking ball called reality.

 

 

[evadgib]

Nigel Ferage is on HARDtalk today in UK

[AlexRich]

14 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Moody's 

 

Were they not one of the cited experts that were shouting loud and proud that the UK would suffer immediate financial armageddon  in the event of an out vote ?

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/sep/19/hard-brexit-would-have-only-modest-impact-on-city-says-moodys

 

Agreed

 

Bluffs have been called. The threatening rhetoric from the EU and the chimpanzees that reside in the various commissions and councils is diminishing by the day.

 

40 years of EU Eurocrats fantasy is now being smashed into oblivion by a wrecking ball called reality.

 

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/20/passporting-rights-brexit-uk-firms-fca-eu

 

Au contraire? 

 

 

[Khun Han]

Andrew Tyrie, confirmed member of Project Fear:

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-eu-referendum-36513693

 

"Conservative MP Andrew Tyrie, who chairs the Treasury select committee, has announced he will back the Remain campaign in the EU referendum.

The former Treasury adviser said leaving the EU would almost certainly lead to a "short-term economic shock"."

[jimmybkk]

I thought the whole Brexit debacle was hilarious. It was, and always will be, about the money (at least far as politicians are concerned).

 

The politicians were so transparent in their support:  George Osborne with his politicized assertions that he would need to cut the NHS budget and raise taxes if Britain voted for leaving the EU... Ooooohhhh... That's scary George. Well, it's happened, so crack on with implementing that plan of yours... Oh, but wait... You won't, will you... Because that plan would probably result in your party losing the next general election. So now you're gonna pull Plan B out of you're pocket, right? Well, don't you think you shoulda let the public know the details of Plan B beforehand...?

 

And as for David Cameron... when he saw that the gravy train was leaving the station that was enough for him... Atta boy Dave - Don't stick around, pander to the wishes of the people and then actually lead a country based on the wishes of the people, like you're supposed to do... If the job no longer pays enough you just get yourself the hell out of dodge... Can you imagine if the UK had to go to war with this guy at the helm?

 

As for the UK's immigration policies - the UK is now seeing the inevitable backlash of what happens when you open your doors to immigrants and bend over backwards to accommodate their religious requests. Logic seems to have gone out of the window on this one. If a Muslim moves to the UK and then states that he and his mates now need a Mosque so that they can conduct their prayers in accordance with their religion, I think the question that should be asked first is: "If your religion is so important to you, why would you choose to relocate to the UK as opposed to a Muslim country...? Where incidentally, there are Mosques everywhere... no shortage of places to pray... that kind of thing..." "You know that there are plenty of Muslim countries out there, right...? Here's a list in case you don't..."

 

The next question I would be asking is this: "Hey guys... you know that whole Call-To-Prayer thing that you do like however many times per day... It's kinda intrusive... some people have even suggested it's like spam messages, i.e. uncalled for, unwarranted, unnecessary... Well, it's the year 2016... Would it be oh-so-hard to pass that message on to other followers of your faith by... I dunno... say sms for example...? Or is it totally necessary to project your religion and its presence onto others?

 

Oh wait - no need to answer that last one...

[SheungWan]

Bottom line for those in Thailand is that their sterling is currently worth >10% less.

[SgtRock]

For those that are still struggling to think beyond the screaming headlines of doom and gloom.

 

Ask yourself why this merger is still going ahead

 

Quote

Deutsche Boerse wins investor support for London Stock Exchange merger

 

Quote

Several politicians and watchdogs have already urged the EU’s antitrust body to prevent the group from clearing euro trades outside the currency bloc, despite the UK winning a court case last year that shored up the LSE’s rights to carry out this service.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/26/deutsche-boerse-wins-investor-support-for-london-stock-exchange/

 

The moneymen are way ahead of the politicians.

[SgtRock]

38 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

Bottom line for those in Thailand is that their sterling is currently worth >10% less.

 

Bottom line is, some of us do not care.

 

There are some things in life that are priceless  Something that bankers would never understand.

[SgtRock]

It would appear that some posters need to start reading and understanding the links that they post here.

 

Quote

“These figures give us an initial idea of the effects of losing full access to the single market in financial services. The business put at risk could be significant. Almost 5,500 UK firms are using passports to do business in Europe, and over 8,000 European firms are using passports to provide services in the UK,” said Tyrie.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/20/passporting-rights-brexit-uk-firms-fca-eu

 

There will be a recalibration on how business is done, but nothing will be lost.

[rockingrobin]

22 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

It would appear that some posters need to start reading and understanding the links that they post here.

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/20/passporting-rights-brexit-uk-firms-fca-eu

 

There will be a recalibration on how business is done, but nothing will be lost.

Some additional info

In it, Mr Bailey revealed that 8,008 European companies use 23,532 passports to trade in the UK.

By contrast, 5,476 UK firms currently hold some 336,421 passports to trade elsewhere in EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37416280

 

The reality is we mere mortals will have to wait and see what the lucky dip bag produces

[Khun Han]

11 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Some additional info

In it, Mr Bailey revealed that 8,008 European companies use 23,532 passports to trade in the UK.

By contrast, 5,476 UK firms currently hold some 336,421 passports to trade elsewhere in EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37416280

 

The reality is we mere mortals will have to wait and see what the lucky dip bag produces

 

How many countries are there in the EU, and how many countries are there in the UK?

[AlexRich]

"The total number of passports held by UK companies amounted to 336,421 because many have passports for different sectors in different countries, the FCA said. The total number of passports held by European businesses for access to the UK is 23,532.

The passports cover a range of activities, including investment banking, corporate lending, insurance, payments and asset management".

 

Source: Financial Times

.

[AlexRich]

"Most big US, Japanese and Swiss banks use London as their hub for passporting into other EU markets. Since the Brexit vote in June they have been drawing up contingency plans for moving some business out of the UK if passporting goes".

 

Financial Times

[Khun Han]

It's ok to cherry pick quotes from news articles, but not providing links to give other readers the chance to put the quotes into context is a bit naughty. Posts are often deleted because of this.

[AlexRich]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/21/brexit-care-older-disabled-people-eu-workers-uk

 

Given the demographic of the vote ... is this poetic justice? 

[cumgranosalum]

1 hour ago, SgtRock said:

For those that are still struggling to think beyond the screaming headlines of doom and gloom.

 

Ask yourself why this merger is still going ahead

 

 

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/07/26/deutsche-boerse-wins-investor-support-for-london-stock-exchange/

 

The moneymen are way ahead of the politicians.

Because the London financial markets are desperately looking to get out of London and keep a foot in the EU?

Edited September 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[cumgranosalum]

On 9/18/2016 at 10:12 PM, Khun Han said:

Like I said, you're either buying into a European superstate, as kindly explained by Juncker, or you're not. All the other arguments about brexit are just dots, crosses and commas.

 

I think the most frustrating thing about Brexit is that it is so intellectually bereft.

 

We see the same cliches from Brexiteers - very little opinion based on reasoned  or critical thought.

 

How many times have we seen/hard "freedom" "immigration" and European "Superstate" rolled out as if they are some dreadful factual concept - they are in fact nothing more then cliches -= repeated often enough some of the more gullible start to believe them.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2016 by cumgranosalum

[SgtRock]

34 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

Some additional info

In it, Mr Bailey revealed that 8,008 European companies use 23,532 passports to trade in the UK.

By contrast, 5,476 UK firms currently hold some 336,421 passports to trade elsewhere in EU.

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37416280

 

The reality is we mere mortals will have to wait and see what the lucky dip bag produces

 

From your BBC link

 

Quote

In a separate report, however, credit ratings agency Moody's said the loss of passporting rights would likely be "manageable" for most UK-based financial firms.

This is because the EU already recognises non-EU regulatory regimes for the purpose of undertaking investment and banking business.

 

And as I pointed out in post 1841. The moneymen are way ahead of the Politicians.

 

Yes you are correct. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens within the EU when Merkel and Hollande get the boot next year.

 

The PM played a blinder by delaying A50.

[cumgranosalum]

2 minutes ago, SgtRock said:

 

From your BBC link

 

 

And as I pointed out in post 1841. The moneymen are way ahead of the Politicians.

 

Yes you are correct. 

 

It will be interesting to see what happens within the EU when Merkel and Hollande get the boot next year.

 

The PM played a blinder by delaying A50.

so what did Brexiteers gain? Lots of money for the money men - everyone knows that the more volatile a financial market becomes the more opportunities there are for the few to make money - I hardly think that is something to crow about.

[Khun Han]

2 minutes ago, cumgranosalum said:

 

I think the most frustrating thing about Brexit is that it is so intellectually bereft.

 

We see the same cliches from Brexiteers - very little opinion based on reasoned  or critical thought.

 

How many times have we seen/hard "freedom" "immigration" and European "Superstate" rolled out as if they are some dreadful factual concept - they are in fact nothing more then cliches -= repeated often enough some ore gullible start to believe them.

 

 

 

I really don't know why you keep posting these opinions. You do yourself no favours. Go back and read Juncker's state of the union speech. He made it quite clear that the EU's future is a superstate, where the needs of the superstate override the needs of individual regions. You can keep on bandying insults about, but Juncker's statement is there for all the world to see. He can't un-make it. But you will keep pretending that he didn't make it.

[Khun Han]

What's become really amusing about this debate on here is that the remainers kept deathly quiet for a few days after Juncker made his bombshell speech. They had no answer to it. Now they are back, carrying on as though he never made it, with the usual nitpicking. Either they have goldfish memories, or they think brexiters have. Probably the latter, knowing their arrogance and condescension .

[SgtRock]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I really don't know why you keep posting these opinions. You do yourself no favours. Go back and read Juncker's state of the union speech. He made it quite clear that the EU's future is a superstate, where the needs of the superstate override the needs of individual regions. You can keep on bandying insults about, but Juncker's statement is there for all the world to see. He can't un-make it. But you will keep pretending that he didn't make it.

 

White noise is difficult to ignore and its sole purpose is to grind someone down and break them.

 

They are easy to identify. They are normally very fast to offer unsubstantiated opinions, never address facts that is contrary to their white noise and lastly, they normally throw insults to hide their shocking lack of education.

 

It is best to place those that are nothing but white noise on ignore.

[i claudius]

1 hour ago, Khun Han said:

 

I really don't know why you keep posting these opinions. You do yourself no favours. Go back and read Juncker's state of the union speech. He made it quite clear that the EU's future is a superstate, where the needs of the superstate override the needs of individual regions. You can keep on bandying insults about, but Juncker's statement is there for all the world to see. He can't un-make it. But you will keep pretending that he didn't make it.

 

Its a waste of time talking to people like this ,they are so upset that the sky did not fall in when we won ,and that in fact things are looking better all the time ,soon the last couple of remainers that are still posting will just give up ,especially as its looking as if the E,U is about to fall apart anyway .

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

Bottom line for those in Thailand is that their sterling is currently worth >10% less.

 

4 hours ago, SgtRock said:

 

Bottom line is, some of us do not care.

 

There are some things in life that are priceless  Something that bankers would never understand.

 

No. Its not 'priceless'. It is a >10% hole in sterling income converted to baht. That is the real world right now.

[Ace of Pop]

Portugal now realizes that it can bury itself without the EU helping.Just look at our debt,and only the elite few gained from it.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, i claudius said:

 

Its a waste of time talking to people like this ,they are so upset that the sky did not fall in when we won ,and that in fact things are looking better all the time ,soon the last couple of remainers that are still posting will just give up ,especially as its looking as if the E,U is about to fall apart anyway .

I agree with most of your post, but think the possible/likely collapse of the EU would be harmful to everyone in the short term.

 

Its unfortunate that it took brexit to make the EU realise (too late) that they had 'lost touch' with too many in the EU population.

 

On top of which,  the brexit result exacerbated the unrest and dislike of many things about the EU in other countries - resulting in them also giving voice to their concerns, and (it appears according to recent voting) they're also voting to reject the EU bureaucrats .

 

What happens next will be 'interesting' in the sense of 'may you live in interesting times' - but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic.

 

 

[SheungWan]

2 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree with most of your post, but think the possible/likely collapse of the EU would be harmful to everyone in the short term.

 

Its unfortunate that it took brexit to make the EU realise (too late) that they had 'lost touch' with too many in the EU population.

 

On top of which,  the brexit result exacerbated the unrest and dislike of many things about the EU in other countries - resulting in them also giving voice to their concerns, and (it appears according to recent voting) they're also voting to reject the EU bureaucrats .

 

What happens next will be 'interesting' in the sense of 'may you live in interesting times' - but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic.

 

 

 

'...but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic'. Now that really is priceless.

Edited September 21, 2016 by SheungWan

[dick dasterdly]

14 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I agree with most of your post, but think the possible/likely collapse of the EU would be harmful to everyone in the short term.

 

Its unfortunate that it took brexit to make the EU realise (too late) that they had 'lost touch' with too many in the EU population.

 

On top of which,  the brexit result exacerbated the unrest and dislike of many things about the EU in other countries - resulting in them also giving voice to their concerns, and (it appears according to recent voting) they're also voting to reject the EU bureaucrats .

 

What happens next will be 'interesting' in the sense of 'may you live in interesting times' - but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic.

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

 

'...but hopefully I'm just being pessimistic'. Now that really is priceless.

Bearing in mind my entire post was expressing concern at the possible collapse of the EU - the way you picked up one, tiny clause in the post (in an attempt to ridicule) just shows that you are incapable of reasoned thought, but rely on sound-bites - regardless of context .