when in rome do as romans do. when in thai do as thais do

[mrfaroukh]

I think everyone misunderstood you as you didn't put your question in a right way.

I think you mean when foreigners come to your country (probably you mean the Western world) they expect them to adapt to that country by learning their language, living among them, ,learn their culture etc. I know in many countries for example scandinavia most people from Pakistan live in the same area or for that matter the same is with them in London or Chinese in Toronto. Many of them do not even learn the language and do not mix with the native of those countries. There are thousands of debates why is that so.

But I have also notice when for example Norwegian travel to Toronto they have an area called Little Norway, or Italian in New York have an area called Little Italy.

Now this gentleman probably saying when they are in your country you always complain that they live in their own area and do not learn the language etc. And his question is now that you are here on a long visa and staying for many years are you mixing with Thai people, learning their language and culture?

[KarenBravo]

I have learnt their language (can hold a conversation).

Thais are the least curious people that I have ever met. Most of their conversation centres around money, food and malicious gossip (usually about their friends).

As to culture, Thais don't read books, their traditional music is all very much the same and their modern music is a poor imitation of Western music.

Thinking in this country is not considered a virtue, thus the Thai saying "Don't think too much".

The only part of their culture that I consider any good is their food..........you can keep the rest.

[HappyDazed]

If there is one thing worse than a serial "Thai-basher", it's a rose-tinted glass wearing Thai apologist who thinks Thais can do no wrong. You know, the ones that think they understand "Thainess" (and secretly think they have it, too).

The Thai bashers are in almost every thread, however I don't recall seeing a single post on TV that meets your criteria ..link?

Why do people keep banging on about "engaging" with Thais?

Believe it, or not, many people choose to live in Thailand because of the climate, beaches, scenery and the cost of living. The inhabitants that occupy this country is irrelevant. Couldn't give a crap if Thais, Indians, Chinese, or Westerners were the locals.

Frankly, I much prefer my own Western culture. I think it is far superior to the one here.

I bet you moan about immigrants not learning the language and integrating in your home country?

[jeab1980]

We are not immagrants yes we are guests. No we don't have to mix if we don't want. Yes Idid not llike the immagrants entering my home country and yes i disliked how they congregated.Yes i do mix and enjoy it here. No its not my home but it's as close as it can be. No I will never return to my birth country not even dead.

[gemguy]

Silly assumptions and or what you imply is silly.

Yes, as in YES.....the foreigners and or expats that come here and live here do mingle with and or do closely associate with and or get close and intimate with the locals.

To put it plainly: Fxxing with all the women here in Thailand is about as close as you can get and how much closer do you want a person to be with the locals.

The expats commonly have Thai wives and several children with the locals and I would surmise that is also about as close up and personal as you can get.

When married here in Thailand you marry the wife and her family and everything that is entailed ... and that really gets you close and up front and personal with everything entailed...The Good, The Bad and The Ugly aspects of Thai people and Thai society

Is that close enough for you.

What most foreigner men do not do so much is get too close to the Thai men rather keep their distance, so to speak, because experience teaches us that, unfortunately, all too often the friendly relation's with Thai men can easily turn sour in any number of ways as does relationships with the Women....all too often also.

Besides no one is obligated by anything or anyone or any politically correct sense of right and wrong and needing to deliberately seek close friendships with the locals the way that you imply.

If relationships with Thai people develop into close friendships and long standing mutual appreciation and respect and reciprocal based relationships then so be it while they can and often do "evolve" ( key word here: Evolve ) but a lot of foreigners hold back because it is best to be cautious because all too often the relationships can and often do drag you into matters that are not your concerns or problems.

In my experiences, getting too close results in you having to bear or share the burden of all the problems they have and for some reason they seem to have a lot of problems...what ever they may be ...including coming to you with their hands out and asking you to help them with money matters....and that is long before you would even consider yourself remotely being a close personal friend.

It is hard to explain actually, but meantime you go right ahead and see what happens, and report back to us, as usually there is too much chance you will encounter too much drama and too many problems...as some of us well know already exactly what I mean.

Cheers

Edited June 27, 2016 by gemguy

[Lannig]

Disclaimer: I'm no Thai apologist. Really I am not if you care reading my usual posts. But I feel the need to counter this oversimplified Thai bashing:

I have learnt their language (can hold a conversation).
Thais are the least curious people that I have ever met. Most of their conversation centres around money, food and malicious gossip (usually about their friends).

We don't talk to the same Thai people then (hence the risk of making such generalisations).

I keep getting questions all day long about my my life, my own country, computers and the Internet (for those who know I work in IT)
It even gets boring sometimes, I have to say.

As to culture, Thais don't read books,

Do you see many people under 50 reading books much in your home country? I don't. Not much difference I'd say.

their traditional music is all very much the same and their modern music is a poor imitation of Western music.

Wrong. If it's an imitation, it would be of Korean and/or Japanese pop.

Thinking in this country is not considered a virtue, thus the Thai saying "Don't think too much".

One could see it another, more positive way, as hedonism.
We westerners think too much sometimes, and always considering the wrong side of things.

The only part of their culture that I consider any good is their food..........you can keep the rest.

Food is as important to Thais as it is to us Frenchies. That's certainly an element of culture we have in common, and I enjoy this every day while in the LOS.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Lannig

[KarenBravo]

If there is one thing worse than a serial "Thai-basher", it's a rose-tinted glass wearing Thai apologist who thinks Thais can do no wrong. You know, the ones that think they understand "Thainess" (and secretly think they have it, too).

The Thai bashers are in almost every thread, however I don't recall seeing a single post on TV that meets your criteria ..link?

Why do people keep banging on about "engaging" with Thais?

Believe it, or not, many people choose to live in Thailand because of the climate, beaches, scenery and the cost of living. The inhabitants that occupy this country is irrelevant. Couldn't give a crap if Thais, Indians, Chinese, or Westerners were the locals.

Frankly, I much prefer my own Western culture. I think it is far superior to the one here.

I bet you moan about immigrants not learning the language and integrating in your home country?

Firstly, do more reading on Thaivisa. The place is littered with Thai apologists. If you don't want to take my word for it, do your own work. Don't expect me to do it for you.

Secondly, no, I don't give a crap what immigrants do in my home country. I left 36 years ago. But, yes, I do expect immigrants to integrate. Those that have come to the UK, have a British passport and work in the labour force should learn the language.

Hypocrisy on my part? No. The differences are that firstly, as a foreigner we are made to understand by Thais at every level, that we are not Thai and never will be and therefore will always be second class citizens at best.

We don't have open access to labour markets. We can't own land. Justice isn't blind in Thailand. Double-pricing. I could go on and on.

I like Thai people as individuals. I'm just not so keen on them as a society.

[Gecko123]

I have learnt their language (can hold a conversation).

Thais are the least curious people that I have ever met. Most of their conversation centres around money, food and malicious gossip (usually about their friends).

As to culture, Thais don't read books, their traditional music is all very much the same and their modern music is a poor imitation of Western music.

Thinking in this country is not considered a virtue, thus the Thai saying "Don't think too much".

The only part of their culture that I consider any good is their food..........you can keep the rest.

Just finished talking to a Bangkok Bank employee named Mike, age late 20's. I was having an i-banking problem, he happened to be in the area, so he stopped by the house. We joked about how he was probably glad to get out of the office. We talked about Brexit, how the stock markets, especially bank stocks, fell on Friday, and how interest rates were likely to remain depressed for quite some time. I told him banks might need to cut expenses (i.e., make job cuts) because bank profits were likely to be under pressure for a considerable amount of time. Mike was fully aware of Brexit, knew that stock markets had fallen dramatically on Friday, knew that banks make money off of the difference between deposit and loan rates, and appreciated the tip that banks might need to cut expenses.

Anybody who thinks that "the only thing Thais are interest in talking about is money, food and malicious gossip," probably doesn't speak Thai as well as they imagine they do. It is also difficult to see how anyone who would make the statement "the only part of their culture that I consider any good is their food" could possibly have sufficient motivation to learn the language well, given the high degree of motivation required to master it.

In short, I strongly suspect that it's the limitations of your language skills which caused you develop such a shallow appreciation of Thai people and their culture. Once your Thai gets good enough that they can initiate a conversation about something you are interested in talking about, I think you will be greatly surprised about what Thais are interested in talking about. With all due respect, I don't think you're there yet.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gecko123

[NoshowJones]

"remember in your own country you hated the new immigrants"

Not really, if they were here to work and contribute to the economy, most folk would welcome them.

But there are so many who only come for the handouts and benefits, these are the ones who are hated, and rightly so.

Why do you thing they are queuing up in Calais, to come to the UK and get a job??

[NoshowJones]

jinger they have a visa to live usa

you have a visa to live here

as a guest

"guest"? Here in Thailand??

[jeab1980]

This thai apologist rubish is Purley a thai visa phenomenon . It is used by thai bashers when they run out of or lose a discussion. Seemingly calling someone a thai apologist makes the caller an alpha male and all the Apologist leaches suddenly apear to try to heap there own venom on the so called Thai Apologist . Thus making there boring little day fullfield and there feeling of smugness at 100%. They are then ready to start thai bashing all over again awaiting there next victim. A new name has emerged ThaihApologist bashers.

Iawait the alpha males move

[NoshowJones]

I am sorry, but stupidity is something I can't tolerate.....

That's a pity, there's plenty of stupidity here in Thailand, but the good still outweighs the bad.

[NoshowJones]

I find I have friends with mostly Thai's but I also have a small close knit group of foreign friends. My foreign friends are actually not from the UK but, South Korea, Bhutan, South Africa, Philippines, Australia, Germany, Switzerland, Norway and the US. To be honest I will mix and spend time chatting with anyone if they are nice. There are also foreigners who live in my town that I do not have the time of day for because of one thing or another. The most hassle I have had in Thailand has usually been caused not by the Thai's but from other foreigners who have a bee in their bonnet or are a little aggressive/mental.

or are a little aggressive/mental.

That will be the "Barstool Brigade" you are referring to.

[KarenBravo]

This thai apologist rubish is Purley a thai visa phenomenon . It is used by thai bashers when they run out of or lose a discussion. Seemingly calling someone a thai apologist makes the caller an alpha male and all the Apologist leaches suddenly apear to try to heap there own venom on the so called Thai Apologist . Thus making there boring little day fullfield and there feeling of smugness at 100%. They are then ready to start thai bashing all over again awaiting there next victim. A new name has emerged ThaihApologist bashers.

Iawait the alpha males move

What colour is the sky on your planet, because it certainly isn't blue...

[NoshowJones]

Personally I do not give a rat's arz if immigrants to my country do not integrate or speak English, as long as they obey the law, and do not interfere with me.

You left out the main thing, as long as they have a job and are not claiming benefits.

[KarenBravo]

In short, I strongly suspect that it's the limitations of your language skills which caused you develop such a shallow appreciation of Thai people and their culture.

Nope, nothing to do with my language skills. What evidence do you have to the contrary?

My conclusion is through observation and comparing the differences between two cultures.

[NoshowJones]

If there is one thing worse than a serial "Thai-basher", it's a rose-tinted glass wearing Thai apologist who thinks Thais can do no wrong. You know, the ones that think they understand "Thainess" (and secretly think they have it, too).

"Where are you Berkshire"?

[NoshowJones]

We are not immagrants yes we are guests. No we don't have to mix if we don't want. Yes Idid not llike the immagrants entering my home country and yes i disliked how they congregated.Yes i do mix and enjoy it here. No its not my home but it's as close as it can be. No I will never return to my birth country not even dead.

Another member of the "we are "guests" in Thailand brigade.

[Catoni]

I don't understand the question .. . Of course I mix with Thais when in Thailand. Mix with Cambodians when in Cambodia... Filipinos when in the Philippines.. Americans when in the U.S., Canadians when in Canada...

Why go to a foreign country if you don't want to get to know the people and make friends with them?

I would just as soon stay home and save my money if that was the case..

[MissAndry]

This thai apologist rubish is Purley a thai visa phenomenon . It is used by thai bashers when they run out of or lose a discussion. Seemingly calling someone a thai apologist makes the caller an alpha male and all the Apologist leaches suddenly apear to try to heap there own venom on the so called Thai Apologist . Thus making there boring little day fullfield and there feeling of smugness at 100%. They are then ready to start thai bashing all over again awaiting there next victim. A new name has emerged ThaihApologist bashers.

Iawait the alpha males move

What colour is the sky on your planet, because it certainly isn't blue...

I'm from England, the colour of my sky is grey, when you can see it through the rain and drizzle.

[Catoni]

I live here 13+ years and before that 25+ holidays, in Pattaya, not the bar scene.

The Thais that know me consider me "Thai", their words, not mine.

So I have learned to say YES and do NO, just an example.

No Thai ever questions me about it, just as I learned, to not count on their YES statement.

Just 1 example my dear.

After getting several Sak Yant tattoos over the period of a few weeks, using Khem Sak, done by a monk with blessings and rituals etc.... my favourite tuk tuk driver, and friend, said... "Now... you are Thai. Wherever you go in the world.. .you are Thai... and you have Thai inside you... in your heart."

I did not know how to respond to him.. But I felt peace inside...

Edited June 27, 2016 by Catoni

[KarenBravo]

Why go to a foreign country if you don't want to get to know the people and make friends with them?

As I mentioned in a previous post, the weather, beaches, scenery, life style and cost of living.

[tails]

Why ask a question you already know the answer to? Some do, some dont, same as back home.

[Gecko123]

More economic refugees here than I previously realized. Maybe immigration needs a new classification.

Edited June 27, 2016 by Gecko123

[Gillyflower]

to Dave Austin

Don't you mean 'really boring'?

[HappyDazed]

Firstly, do more reading on Thaivisa. The place is littered with Thai apologists. If you don't want to take my word for it, do your own work. Don't expect me to do it for you.

You are the one who made the unsubstantiated claim that TV was full of Thai apologists ...therefore it's your work to provide evidence for your assertion.

The fact you cannot provide links to posts made by these "Thai apologists" link speaks volumes...

Secondly, no, I don't give a crap what immigrants do in my home country. I left 36 years ago. But, yes, I do expect immigrants to integrate. Those that have come to the UK, have a British passport and work in the labour force should learn the language.

Hypocrisy on my part? No.

So you think immigrants to your host nation should integrate, assimilate and learn the language ...meanwhile you have stayed in Thailand for 36 years but have done neither of these things and think that's ok?

Hilarious and hypocritical ...it's obvious you're not playing with a full deck!

This thai apologist rubish is Purley a thai visa phenomenon . It is used by thai bashers when they run out of or lose a discussion. Seemingly calling someone a thai apologist makes the caller an alpha male and all the Apologist leaches suddenly apear to try to heap there own venom on the so called Thai Apologist . Thus making there boring little day fullfield and there feeling of smugness at 100%. They are then ready to start thai bashing all over again awaiting there next victim.

Amen!

Edited June 27, 2016 by HappyDazed

[Jingthing]

More economic refugees here than I previously realized. Maybe immigration needs a new classification.

Thailand is not big on accepting actual refugees.

The current visa categories work well enough for the people you are referring to.

Which I assume is about westerners that find Thailand more affordable than their home countries.

You must financially qualify like everyone else, so no need for a new classification as you propose.

[Berkshire]

This thai apologist rubish is Purley a thai visa phenomenon . It is used by thai bashers when they run out of or lose a discussion. Seemingly calling someone a thai apologist makes the caller an alpha male and all the Apologist leaches suddenly apear to try to heap there own venom on the so called Thai Apologist . Thus making there boring little day fullfield and there feeling of smugness at 100%. They are then ready to start thai bashing all over again awaiting there next victim. A new name has emerged ThaihApologist bashers.

Iawait the alpha males move

So true....

Wikipedia definition, the term Thai Apologist (from Greek ἀπολογία, "speaking in defense") is a term used exclusively by Thai haters/bashers to describe someone who does not share in their vile hatred of all things Thai. A Thai Basher is typically a disenfranchised expatriate who is no longer enchanted with Thailand and spends most of his waking hours trying to convince others to despise the Thais as much as he does. Accordingly, he is often mystified and highly offended by those who do not share in his misery and seeks to label them in such a way as if to say "do ye not feel shame in speaking in defense of these dreadful natives!!"

Thai Apologist used in a sentence:

"If you don't hate the Thais as much as I do, then you must be a Thai Apologist!"

Disclaimer: This "would be" the Wikipedia definition if Wikipedia had a definition of said word.

[jeab1980]

We are not immagrants yes we are guests. No we don't have to mix if we don't want. Yes Idid not llike the immagrants entering my home country and yes i disliked how they congregated.Yes i do mix and enjoy it here. No its not my home but it's as close as it can be. No I will never return to my birth country not even dead.

Another member of the "we are "guests" in Thailand brigade.

Soi f not a guest then what are you????

[NoshowJones]

We are not immagrants yes we are guests. No we don't have to mix if we don't want. Yes Idid not llike the immagrants entering my home country and yes i disliked how they congregated.Yes i do mix and enjoy it here. No its not my home but it's as close as it can be. No I will never return to my birth country not even dead.

Another member of the "we are "guests" in Thailand brigade.

Soi f not a guest then what are you????

An Alien perhaps. 90 day reports?? That's how you treat criminals, not guests.

We are just tolerated for what we contribute to the Thai economy.