Even though we voted for it, a Brexit won't happen in the end. Here's why

[dick dasterdly]

Have to agree, far too many English are racist .

On the other hand, IMO its a reasonable argument that non-skilled foreigners should not be allowed into the UK as the are cutting pay for the already badly paid UK workers.

I'd make an exception for plumbers though !

Unfortunately for the UK, for the EU that demand is a non-starter. If they have do it for the UK, then it will have to be allowed for EU members as well. And in that case, it's longer a genuine economic union.

I gather China has somehow got away with this? Albeit they are not allowed to 'dump' produce in the EU?

China has got away with what? Shipping over mass quantities of its citizens to work in the EU? What has produce got to do with the free movement of labor?

Heavy sigh - no free movement rules as per the EU - but still allowed free trade (with a few exceptions).

[Andreas2]

It didn't take long for the presstitutes to wake up. Uhh, ohh, be afraid, very afraid. A wussy writer outing himself.

Anyway, here some evidence that the UK is a leading force: EU BACKLASH: Brexit ‘TSUNAMI’ expected as 34 referendums set to rock union

Ha, ha, quick, share your immense (6 days) and oh so bad, bad, bad experiences you have already made, with the other people of the EU.

Now seriously, what did you expect? It's done by the end of the week and everybody can go to bed again? Oh dear.

I just hope that the other EU leavers are going to take it with a little bit more self-confidence and PRIDE.

[dick dasterdly]

I voted to remain, but following the shock result I am resigned to us leaving.

And following the very nasty nature of some or the European Leaders and Bureaucrats to us I certainly will not vote remain if there is another referendum.

Further more before any negotiations start ..."Junkers must Go"

Even now that the British public have spoken, the arrogance still remains. He is still trying to dictate terms:

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK did not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, which will trigger talks on the country's withdrawal from the EU.

"If someone from the Remain camp will become British prime minister, this has to be done in two weeks after his appointment," he said.

"If the next British PM is coming from the Leave campaign, it should be done the day after his appointment."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36656753

In other words, he's accepted that there is no way for the EU to force the UK into invoking article 50. Bluster is always fun though.

[ilostmypassword]

I gather China has somehow got away with this? Albeit they are not allowed to 'dump' produce in the EU?

Unfortunately for the UK, for the EU that demand is a non-starter. If they have do it for the UK, then it will have to be allowed for EU members as well. And in that case, it's longer a genuine economic union.

China has got away with what? Shipping over mass quantities of its citizens to work in the EU? What has produce got to do with the free movement of labor?

Heavy sigh - no free movement rules as per the EU - but still allowed free trade (with a few exceptions).

You brought up the issue of the mobility of labor. And then you said in a reply that China was getting with dumping "produce". What has that got to do with the mobility of labor? If you weren't addressing that issue, then make a fresh post.

[dick dasterdly]

I gather China has somehow got away with this? Albeit they are not allowed to 'dump' produce in the EU?

Unfortunately for the UK, for the EU that demand is a non-starter. If they have do it for the UK, then it will have to be allowed for EU members as well. And in that case, it's longer a genuine economic union.

China has got away with what? Shipping over mass quantities of its citizens to work in the EU? What has produce got to do with the free movement of labor?

Heavy sigh - no free movement rules as per the EU - but still allowed free trade (with a few exceptions).

You brought up the issue of the mobility of labor. And then you said in a reply that China was getting with dumping "produce". What has that got to do with the mobility of labor? If you weren't addressing that issue, then make a fresh post.

You misread my post as I said that China only had tariffs imposed when they were 'dumping' produce.

I then said that China has not had the EU 'free movement of labour' rule imposed - so I'm not sure of your point?

[manfredtillmann]

The EU has been foolish to link social policy (ie migration) with trade and economic/financial/production standards. Having said that, the UK vote to extricate itself was also foolish because it has already wiped trillions off global wealth and puts Britain a precarious position. The positive thinkers keep saying 'no problem, Britain has a strong and vibrant economy so we will do fine". not so fast...the economy is strong and vibrant partly because of the EU relationship and not in spite of it. imported labor, exports and trade relatiobships all contribute and will have to be replaced with a new plan, a plan which the Brexiters clearly do not have.

Like Donald Trump 'may' learn....renegotiating trade agreements that you deem are not in your favor may not be the cakewalk you believe.

Not only is the EU linking social policy with all the others you mentioned. The EU project is one of a superstate, with it's own currency, flag, militray, judiciary, executive and legislative. All member states will merely become states within this, reporting to a central government and compliant to the laws laid by this parliament.

And how exactly will they bring this state into being? The European parliament would have to vote on it. Do you believe that the votes are there? And of course, if the votes were there, then any nation could invoke article 50 and withdraw. I used to think that this kind of ludicrous speculation was the preserve of the American right. Actually, I think they may have learned it from the Europeans.

but in the americas, it already happend, a long time ago. and in australia. the federation of states.

united we stand, and divided...

there is no future for small, intendant economies in a globalised world economy.

one day we will be the nation of nations, a united planet, all one and no one different. if not, we will not survive.

[Basil B]

I voted to remain, but following the shock result I am resigned to us leaving.

And following the very nasty nature of some or the European Leaders and Bureaucrats to us I certainly will not vote remain if there is another referendum.

Further more before any negotiations start ..."Junkers must Go"

Even now that the British public have spoken, the arrogance still remains. He is still trying to dictate terms:

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK did not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, which will trigger talks on the country's withdrawal from the EU.

"If someone from the Remain camp will become British prime minister, this has to be done in two weeks after his appointment," he said.

"If the next British PM is coming from the Leave campaign, it should be done the day after his appointment."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36656753

In other words, he's accepted that there is no way for the EU to force the UK into invoking article 50. Bluster is always fun though.

The referendum was nether binding and would require I assume parliament to ratify it...

With the EU not willing to negotiate on terms of us leaving or renegotiating our terms of membership so the issues that us Brits find most objectionable about the union can be addressed, ...we have a stalemate.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Basil B

[Gweiloman]

The EU has been foolish to link social policy (ie migration) with trade and economic/financial/production standards. Having said that, the UK vote to extricate itself was also foolish because it has already wiped trillions off global wealth and puts Britain a precarious position. The positive thinkers keep saying 'no problem, Britain has a strong and vibrant economy so we will do fine". not so fast...the economy is strong and vibrant partly because of the EU relationship and not in spite of it. imported labor, exports and trade relatiobships all contribute and will have to be replaced with a new plan, a plan which the Brexiters clearly do not have.

Like Donald Trump 'may' learn....renegotiating trade agreements that you deem are not in your favor may not be the cakewalk you believe.

Not only is the EU linking social policy with all the others you mentioned. The EU project is one of a superstate, with it's own currency, flag, militray, judiciary, executive and legislative. All member states will merely become states within this, reporting to a central government and compliant to the laws laid by this parliament.

And how exactly will they bring this state into being? The European parliament would have to vote on it. Do you believe that the votes are there? And of course, if the votes were there, then any nation could invoke article 50 and withdraw. I used to think that this kind of ludicrous speculation was the preserve of the American right. Actually, I think they may have learned it from the Europeans.

but in the americas, it already happend, a long time ago. and in australia. the federation of states.

united we stand, and divided...

there is no future for small, intendant economies in a globalised world economy.

one day we will be the nation of nations, a united planet, all one and no one different. if not, we will not survive.

What will we not survive? An invasion from Mars?

[silver sea]

Has David Cameron "outmanoevered and checkmated" Boris Johnson? He won't be able to invoke Article 50 to start negotiations with the EU about a formal withdrawal. From the Independent via the comments section in the Guardian. Click HERE

A top British Constitutional lawyer says that the referendum is advisory only. The final decision lies with Parliament.

He also says that there had been "a lot of stupid statements" suggesting Britain could simply send a note to the EU to trigger "Article 50" of the Lisbon Treaty, which lays out the process under which states can leave.

"The article itself says a state can only leave in accordance with "its own constitutional requirements". "Our most fundamental constitutional requirement is that the decision must be taken by parliament. It will require a bill, In November, the situation may have totally changed. According to polls, a million vote leavers appear to have changed their mind, that could be five million by the November."

To read the article and his comments in full, click HERE

If you want to know what Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty actually says, click HERE

Edited June 29, 2016 by silver sea

[dick dasterdly]

Even now that the British public have spoken, the arrogance still remains. He is still trying to dictate terms:

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK did not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, which will trigger talks on the country's withdrawal from the EU.

"If someone from the Remain camp will become British prime minister, this has to be done in two weeks after his appointment," he said.

"If the next British PM is coming from the Leave campaign, it should be done the day after his appointment."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36656753

In other words, he's accepted that there is no way for the EU to force the UK into invoking article 50. Bluster is always fun though.

The referendum was nether binding and would require I assume parliament to ratify it...

With the EU not willing to negotiate on terms of us leaving or renegotiating our terms of membership so the issues that us Brits find most objectionable about the union can be addressed, ...we have a stalemate.

Discussions galore about whether parliament need to vote before article 50 can be invoked.

I'd be suprised if Brit. politicians (largely wanting to stay in the EU) don't come up with a way out.

My best guess is 'new terms' - even though the EU has said otherwise .

Edited June 29, 2016 by dick dasterdly

[ddavidovsky]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

Then you clearly have no understanding whatsoever.

I saw an exit poll graphic that stated the largest concern of those that voted Leave was .... Immigration..... i.e. too many foreigners..... now some of those that voted to leave based on Immigration might have voted that way because they love "foreigners".... but I have a feeling... not many.... Whether that is xenophobia or racism ... I guess it is all up to the person interpreting why Immigration was such an important issue.

There is an interesting feature on the CNN website today in which the people of Hull are asked why they voted to Leave. One woman said there are gangs of Eastern Europeans hanging around her neighbourhood. The locals clearly feel alienated in their own country to the extent that their culture, and their security, is being threatened.

To my mind, it's neither xenophobia (hostility to all foreigners) nor racism (hostility based on race), but simple discrimination (a preference for living among and dealing with people of one's own culture). Everyone - absolutely everyone - practices discrimination all day long every day. If you want to ask directions from someone in the street, you will, probably without being aware of it, choose someone similar to yourself to ask. And there you have it. People want to communicate with each other in their own (age-old) idiom and live amongst those who share their (age-old) values.

As I have already said somewhere, the immigration issue is fairly taboo and cannot be frankly addressed by the politicians or ordinary people battered by political correctness (which is largely designed to suppress that discussion). Still, the issue always creeps out in the discussion.

To take a balanced view of this, it is not a blanket hatred of all foreigners, nor is it linked to race, but is simply an aversion to strangers who may well have a different (and incomprehensible) set of values (such as Muslims), and a reaction to the sheer numbers of foreigners who have made themselves at home in Britain because their own countries are (by their own admission) no good.

A bit of diversity used to be welcomed, but so many foreigners have turned up relatively recently and they have taken over entire districts. On a recent visit to the UK I can honestly say that in several cities I heard more foreign accents than local ones. The sheer numbers are the problem, and - more subtly - the brazenness of those who turn up with a sense of entitlement that doesn't sit right with traditional British reserve.

[Berkshire]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

Then you clearly have no understanding whatsoever.

I saw an exit poll graphic that stated the largest concern of those that voted Leave was .... Immigration..... i.e. too many foreigners..... now some of those that voted to leave based on Immigration might have voted that way because they love "foreigners".... but I have a feeling... not many.... Whether that is xenophobia or racism ... I guess it is all up to the person interpreting why Immigration was such an important issue.

Of course it wasn't about xenophobia or racism (wink wink). It's just like when Donald Trump says he wants to "Make America White Again"...eh, "Great Again."

Speaking of, if somehow Brexit doesn't happen, expect a press conference by Mr. Trump to say that he "called it!"

[ilostmypassword]

I saw an exit poll graphic that stated the largest concern of those that voted Leave was .... Immigration..... i.e. too many foreigners..... now some of those that voted to leave based on Immigration might have voted that way because they love "foreigners".... but I have a feeling... not many.... Whether that is xenophobia or racism ... I guess it is all up to the person interpreting why Immigration was such an important issue.

There is an interesting feature on the CNN website today in which the people of Hull are asked why they voted to Leave. One woman said there are gangs of Eastern Europeans hanging around her neighbourhood. The locals clearly feel alienated in their own country to the extent that their culture, and their security, is being threatened.

To my mind, it's neither xenophobia (hostility to all foreigners) nor racism (hostility based on race), but simple discrimination (a preference for living among and dealing with people of one's own culture). Everyone - absolutely everyone - practices discrimination all day long every day. If you want to ask directions from someone in the street, you will, probably without being aware of it, choose someone similar to yourself to ask. And there you have it. People want to communicate with each other in their own (age-old) idiom and live amongst those who share their (age-old) values.

As I have already said somewhere, the immigration issue is fairly taboo and cannot be frankly addressed by the politicians or ordinary people battered by political correctness (which is largely designed to suppress that discussion). Still, the issue always creeps out in the discussion.

To take a balanced view of this, it is not a blanket hatred of all foreigners, nor is it linked to race, but is simply an aversion to strangers who may well have a different (and incomprehensible) set of values (such as Muslims), and a reaction to the sheer numbers of foreigners who have made themselves at home in Britain because their own countries are (by their own admission) no good.

A bit of diversity used to be welcomed, but so many foreigners have turned up relatively recently and they have taken over entire districts. On a recent visit to the UK I can honestly say that in several cities I heard more foreign accents than local ones. The sheer numbers are the problem, and - more subtly - the brazenness of those who turn up with a sense of entitlement that doesn't sit right with traditional British reserve.

Well, then, those unhappy people are in for a shock when they find out that Brexit won't change this at all. Unless the UK completely repudiates any special ties with the EU. As Switzerland and Norway know, when thing the EU is adamant about is the mobility of Labor. And now that the Brexit leaders have gotten what they wanted, they're starting to say the same thing.

[Gweiloman]

There is an interesting feature on the CNN website today in which the people of Hull are asked why they voted to Leave. One woman said there are gangs of Eastern Europeans hanging around her neighbourhood. The locals clearly feel alienated in their own country to the extent that their culture, and their security, is being threatened.

To my mind, it's neither xenophobia (hostility to all foreigners) nor racism (hostility based on race), but simple discrimination (a preference for living among and dealing with people of one's own culture). Everyone - absolutely everyone - practices discrimination all day long every day. If you want to ask directions from someone in the street, you will, probably without being aware of it, choose someone similar to yourself to ask. And there you have it. People want to communicate with each other in their own (age-old) idiom and live amongst those who share their (age-old) values.

As I have already said somewhere, the immigration issue is fairly taboo and cannot be frankly addressed by the politicians or ordinary people battered by political correctness (which is largely designed to suppress that discussion). Still, the issue always creeps out in the discussion.

To take a balanced view of this, it is not a blanket hatred of all foreigners, nor is it linked to race, but is simply an aversion to strangers who may well have a different (and incomprehensible) set of values (such as Muslims), and a reaction to the sheer numbers of foreigners who have made themselves at home in Britain because their own countries are (by their own admission) no good.

A bit of diversity used to be welcomed, but so many foreigners have turned up relatively recently and they have taken over entire districts. On a recent visit to the UK I can honestly say that in several cities I heard more foreign accents than local ones. The sheer numbers are the problem, and - more subtly - the brazenness of those who turn up with a sense of entitlement that doesn't sit right with traditional British reserve.

Well, then, those unhappy people are in for a shock when they find out that Brexit won't change this at all. Unless the UK completely repudiates any special ties with the EU. As Switzerland and Norway know, when thing the EU is adamant about is the mobility of Labor. And now that the Brexit leaders have gotten what they wanted, they're starting to say the same thing.

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

[Usernames]

And what happens if the British don't take any parliamentary action at all but just stop sending any money to Brussels and start ignoring EU regulations and laws?

[mercman24]

did i read recently that the EU allowed the chinese(or japanese)? to dump cheap steel in the community, to the detriment of the british steel industry, yes that is called looking after your own, NOT

Edited June 29, 2016 by mercman24

[ilostmypassword]

There is an interesting feature on the CNN website today in which the people of Hull are asked why they voted to Leave. One woman said there are gangs of Eastern Europeans hanging around her neighbourhood. The locals clearly feel alienated in their own country to the extent that their culture, and their security, is being threatened.

To my mind, it's neither xenophobia (hostility to all foreigners) nor racism (hostility based on race), but simple discrimination (a preference for living among and dealing with people of one's own culture). Everyone - absolutely everyone - practices discrimination all day long every day. If you want to ask directions from someone in the street, you will, probably without being aware of it, choose someone similar to yourself to ask. And there you have it. People want to communicate with each other in their own (age-old) idiom and live amongst those who share their (age-old) values.

As I have already said somewhere, the immigration issue is fairly taboo and cannot be frankly addressed by the politicians or ordinary people battered by political correctness (which is largely designed to suppress that discussion). Still, the issue always creeps out in the discussion.

To take a balanced view of this, it is not a blanket hatred of all foreigners, nor is it linked to race, but is simply an aversion to strangers who may well have a different (and incomprehensible) set of values (such as Muslims), and a reaction to the sheer numbers of foreigners who have made themselves at home in Britain because their own countries are (by their own admission) no good.

A bit of diversity used to be welcomed, but so many foreigners have turned up relatively recently and they have taken over entire districts. On a recent visit to the UK I can honestly say that in several cities I heard more foreign accents than local ones. The sheer numbers are the problem, and - more subtly - the brazenness of those who turn up with a sense of entitlement that doesn't sit right with traditional British reserve.

Well, then, those unhappy people are in for a shock when they find out that Brexit won't change this at all. Unless the UK completely repudiates any special ties with the EU. As Switzerland and Norway know, when thing the EU is adamant about is the mobility of Labor. And now that the Brexit leaders have gotten what they wanted, they're starting to say the same thing.

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

Tell that to the people in Hull who want those Eastern Europeans gone. Or better yet, tell that to the EU. They've never yielded on that point - ask Norway and Switzerland - and they aren't going to, If they did, that would mean the end of the EU.

[Calach]

Don't dream, it will happen. And EU should not let go this opportunity to get rid of its most whimsical member, that had all of the advantadges of Europe, without as many inconvenients as other members have. A priviledged position that was brilliantly negotiated by Tatcher, which they ruined in one day. Congrats.

It's the best thing that could have happened to Europe, it will reinforce it on its core, remove its US outpost, and also teach a lesson to those in Europe elite who wished further integration or federalism, which European peoples don't want though they aren't necessarily against the union itself.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Calach

[dick dasterdly]

There is an interesting feature on the CNN website today in which the people of Hull are asked why they voted to Leave. One woman said there are gangs of Eastern Europeans hanging around her neighbourhood. The locals clearly feel alienated in their own country to the extent that their culture, and their security, is being threatened.

To my mind, it's neither xenophobia (hostility to all foreigners) nor racism (hostility based on race), but simple discrimination (a preference for living among and dealing with people of one's own culture). Everyone - absolutely everyone - practices discrimination all day long every day. If you want to ask directions from someone in the street, you will, probably without being aware of it, choose someone similar to yourself to ask. And there you have it. People want to communicate with each other in their own (age-old) idiom and live amongst those who share their (age-old) values.

As I have already said somewhere, the immigration issue is fairly taboo and cannot be frankly addressed by the politicians or ordinary people battered by political correctness (which is largely designed to suppress that discussion). Still, the issue always creeps out in the discussion.

To take a balanced view of this, it is not a blanket hatred of all foreigners, nor is it linked to race, but is simply an aversion to strangers who may well have a different (and incomprehensible) set of values (such as Muslims), and a reaction to the sheer numbers of foreigners who have made themselves at home in Britain because their own countries are (by their own admission) no good.

A bit of diversity used to be welcomed, but so many foreigners have turned up relatively recently and they have taken over entire districts. On a recent visit to the UK I can honestly say that in several cities I heard more foreign accents than local ones. The sheer numbers are the problem, and - more subtly - the brazenness of those who turn up with a sense of entitlement that doesn't sit right with traditional British reserve.

Well, then, those unhappy people are in for a shock when they find out that Brexit won't change this at all. Unless the UK completely repudiates any special ties with the EU. As Switzerland and Norway know, when thing the EU is adamant about is the mobility of Labor. And now that the Brexit leaders have gotten what they wanted, they're starting to say the same thing.

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

But he has a point. The Brit. govt. supports unskilled workers coming in from poor EU countries - driving poorly paid jobs' wages down.

[bkkcanuck8]

I voted to remain, but following the shock result I am resigned to us leaving.

And following the very nasty nature of some or the European Leaders and Bureaucrats to us I certainly will not vote remain if there is another referendum.

Further more before any negotiations start ..."Junkers must Go"

Even now that the British public have spoken, the arrogance still remains. He is still trying to dictate terms:

European Commission president Jean-Claude Juncker said the UK did not have "months to meditate" on activating Article 50, which will trigger talks on the country's withdrawal from the EU.

"If someone from the Remain camp will become British prime minister, this has to be done in two weeks after his appointment," he said.

"If the next British PM is coming from the Leave campaign, it should be done the day after his appointment."

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-36656753

In other words, he's accepted that there is no way for the EU to force the UK into invoking article 50. Bluster is always fun though.

The referendum was nether binding and would require I assume parliament to ratify it...

With the EU not willing to negotiate on terms of us leaving or renegotiating our terms of membership so the issues that us Brits find most objectionable about the union can be addressed, ...we have a stalemate.

It is only a stalemate because those that said they want to leave actually don't want to leave -- they want a new and again an even more special deal than they already had. If the EU was as bad as all that has been said, they would not need terms to leave.... terms are not about leaving they are terms on how to stay..... Leaving is rather easy - it is all spelled out.... All that is needed is invoking article 50 (not rocket science) - done.... after that all the talks are really about how to keep a foot in the door and stay in some sort of way. Funny thing is the referendum question was not about getting a mandate on renegotiating... it was a referendum question that asked if you wish the UK to leave the EU.

When people are making simple things seem hard is because they really don't want to do that thing..... The stalemate is artificial.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Was reading an interesting stock market commentary from the U.S. the other day...

It suggested, in the wake of Brexit, that the English-speaking western countries form their own trade/employment etc zone, encompassing U.S., Canada, the UK, Australia, New Zealand, etc.

Interesting idea, IMHO.

Because automobiles manufactured by English speaking people will be easier to use? Will run faster? Use less fuel? What rational economic basis is there for this?

No... the purpose would be to foster tariff free and enhanced trading relations between like-minded and more similar countries. In other words, the same kinds of economic advantages the UK had with the EU, but instead for the future, with a different and arguably better bloc of nations.

And also to foster some mobility of employment -- presumably in a different environment unlike the one where the dregs of the EU are dragging down the more affluent and advanced countries, leading to great imbalances in migration flow between those countries.

Edited June 29, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[ddavidovsky]

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

Tell that to the people in Hull who want those Eastern Europeans gone. Or better yet, tell that to the EU. They've never yielded on that point - ask Norway and Switzerland - and they aren't going to, If they did, that would mean the end of the EU.

If Germany or France were an island they would feel exactly the way the British do about 'free movement of labour'.

And if Germany or France hadn't gone through the shock of WWII they wouldn't feel it so necessary to club together now (it was telling that Merkel's first reaction to Brexit was a plaintive reminder of the possibility of war).

Britain doesn't share their values on these matters. That's entirely understandable and entirely the point.

[Baerboxer]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

[chiang mai]

The EU has been foolish to link social policy (ie migration) with trade and economic/financial/production standards. Having said that, the UK vote to extricate itself was also foolish because it has already wiped trillions off global wealth and puts Britain a precarious position. The positive thinkers keep saying 'no problem, Britain has a strong and vibrant economy so we will do fine". not so fast...the economy is strong and vibrant partly because of the EU relationship and not in spite of it. imported labor, exports and trade relatiobships all contribute and will have to be replaced with a new plan, a plan which the Brexiters clearly do not have.

Like Donald Trump 'may' learn....renegotiating trade agreements that you deem are not in your favor may not be the cakewalk you believe.

Nothing has been wiped off.

The financial markets overreacted and the markets will bounce back as it becomes clear that Europe wants to keep exporting to the UK

So it's not been wiped off, it's just gone away temporarily, hiding as such, and when everything gets better it'll come back hence nobody has lost anything, go it!

[chiang mai]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

[Gweiloman]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

Yeah, solid logical reasons

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIjUESuwqes#t=74

[Baerboxer]

I'm afraid you got it wrong again.

Remain means the status quo will not change, period.

Brexit means that the UK now has an opportunity to change the status quo. Whether that succeeds or not remains to be seen.

Once again, the Brexiters were not talking about stopping immigration - just controlling it. Being in the EU, the UK has NO RIGHT to stop any EU citizen from coming in.

Tell that to the people in Hull who want those Eastern Europeans gone. Or better yet, tell that to the EU. They've never yielded on that point - ask Norway and Switzerland - and they aren't going to, If they did, that would mean the end of the EU.

If Germany or France were an island they would feel exactly the way the British do about 'free movement of labour'.

And if Germany or France hadn't gone through the shock of WWII they wouldn't feel it so necessary to club together now (it was telling that Merkel's first reaction to Brexit was a plaintive reminder of the possibility of war).

Britain doesn't share their values on these matters. That's entirely understandable and entirely the point.

Really, and Britain didn't go through WW11 then?

If it wasn't for Britain there wouldn't be an independent France, or Belgium or Netherlands or Luxembourg, or Poland etc etc etc

Germany tried twice to impose it's will, through force, at any cost, and to rule Europe.

Germany grew out of that and moved on. Like Churchill the realization was that a unified united Europe would be needed to prevent any country from acting in such a way in the future. That view is more visionary in the context of globalization, the IT and knowledge age, and the increased complexities the world now faces.

Anglela Merkel, for all her faults, is right when she recognizes and states the Europe is a lot stronger with Britain in the EU; and Britain is a lot stronger within the EU.

Juncke is a smart cookie. He knows that if Britain had voted to remain, then there would have mean movement, maybe small at first, towards closer British integration.

[Berkshire]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

Then you clearly have no understanding whatsoever.

Hmmm, maybe you can explain this thread:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/928264-taunts-threats-surge-in-days-following-british-referendum/

Perhaps JT understands it a little too well.

[dick dasterdly]

I'll stick my neck out and say that Brexit wont happen, even though the majority voted for it, it's simply not the right answer and today a larger majority have come to realise that.

You're not "sticking your neck out".... . Many of us have said the same thing - albeit for different reasons. i.e. because the Brit. govt./MPs/big business and EU do not want it to happen.

[PREM-R]

My understanding is that a lot of people voted to leave based on xenophobia and racism. So the day after their "victory" they realized the Poles and the Muslims, etc. aren't going anywhere. Oops!

I saw TV programs interviewing people in Britain over the weekend. All those who voted to remain had solid logical reasons for doing so. Those who voted to leave were a mixture - old people who yearned for past days which seemed so 'perfect" - memory plays so many tricks on us all; and younger people who blames immigrants for everything and thought leaving meant immigration would cease and lots of people would go home - they were lied to over and over again or harped on about sovereignty and change - neither of which they could elaborate on.

The extreme right, racists and those who have been stirring up those emotions for some time have seized their opportunity.

A considerable number of people who voted to leave appear to have had no idea of the consequences or understanding of what they were actually voting for.

I have to say that I have totally disagreed with just about every post you have ever made. However, with this one I agree with you completely.