Foreign Husbands Bring Big Changes To Isaan

[Plus]

They went into the villages and interviewed people then published their findings. Why not accept them as they are?

I, personally, tend to agree with most of it, and some arguments against are simply amazing - "My parents didn't teach me my language".

Talking of language - the researches can certainly make judgements on Thai language proficiency. I don't know how they judged English, but they probably compared it to native English speakers, not other Thais learning English at schools only. Can these luk-kruengs speak English like English children of the same age? I doubt it. Do they speak German or Swedish?

Age difference and education levels - why even argue about it? Most farangs are over 50 and most Thais are about 35 and with no high school education. How can you even begin to argue against that?

[BPayette]

CROSS-CULTURAL MARRIAGES

Foreign husbands bring big changes to Isaan

It cited the example of many Thai wives now being keener on eating Western food and almost forgetting somtam - the region's popular papaya salad dish.

The wives still ate somtam, which they grew up eating, but also ate pizza, hamburgers or fried chicken as a symbol of their adjustment to Western culture.

Many ended up eating both local and Western dishes, while their husbands found it harder to adjust to local food and stuck more to Western food.

Supawatanakorn said that since the wives found it more convenient to cook once for all family members including their husbands, Northeastern food - especially somtam with fermented fish - had gradually disappeared from their meals, she said.

Where can you find western food in Isan? The only place I know of is the McDonalds in the Megamall in Korat

[navajo]

That is good....It is well documented that intergration of different cultures into both the social and economic fabric of Western societies has been responsible for their strength as nations. It is good to see this happening to some extent here in Thailand, though I am quite sure there still very much

prejuduice/ignorance here. Whether they like it or not, it is nice to see some negative aspects of Thai culture eroding; whether they like it or not. One thing that I have noticed is some Thais of course irrespective of what part of their country they are from their lack of open mindedness in

trying different foods from different cultures other than their own, with the exception of the Thais which have been abroad. Whether that reluct ance on their part is a matter of economics or closed mindedness is hard to say or perhaps both. I am quite sure that least Issan the major benefits to the families in those areas who's daughters marry farrangs is the induction of money when the woman and the great white father (farrang pay them a visit). I have been with both my American and British friends to those areas on occasions when they have come to visit their inlaws and have watched the children come running with their hands out. And of course the mother isolates the daughter for a moment or to (which I am sure she is asking her daughter, "wheres the money"? ) But such is life.

[Martin]

I am acquainted with the lady Associate Professor who headed up this research. First, I will ask her if this report is a fair reflection in English of her publication that was written in Thai. Only then will I make any judgement about the biases that appear to be revealed.

In post #9, 'legendarysurfer' said:

"Never saw a survey that wasn't skewed in some way. Note this one was done in some of the major cities in the Isaan. I'm sure the results would be different if it had been conducted in the countryside."

I agree. But, as yet, there seems to be no such research going on in the countryside; probably because farangs living right out in the villages are, as yet, so few and far between.

Being realistic, academic research will always be skewed to what happens within the Universities or their nearby surrounding urban areas.

A lot of research projects involve generating a questionnaire, getting a lot of people to answer it, and then showing mastery of statistical analysis by drawing conclusions from the answers.

Both faculty members and postgraduate students are going to find students on campus to be the easiest to approach to get their questionnaires answered. (Mr Thaksin Shinawatra's PhD comes to mind!)

Second easiest will be people in the urban area, since the University will be, in their eyes, that unit of the Higher Education Industry that is a big part of the local economy; and so they many will be pre-disposed towards being helpful.

(Though the researcher may run into some members of the public who are fed up with the behaviour of the students and will tell the researcher , in two short words, not they are not going to co-operate. That used to be known as the "Town versus Gown" syndrome in places like Cambridge and Oxford.

In reading all such research reports, we should bear in mind that we are only reading about the replies of those who were disposed to give their time and co-operate with the researcher and answer his/her questions.)

My own bit of academic activity in retirement involves looking ahead to what may be the effects in the villages when the 'baby-boomers' retire.

A small number of Thai women are indicating that they and their Western husbands are going to spend their reirement years (and that may be a period of up to thirty years) based in their girlhood villages.

Some of these women have spent many years in the West and may have seen their kids through University, run businesses, coped with prejudice, and generally got a much more thorough view of the West, and of Thailand, than your average Thai academic who has just been to the West for the few years that it takes to do an advanced degree.

I call these people "transcultural couples" to distinguish them as a subset within the bigger set that we call "cross-cultural marriages", which is itself a subset within "inter-cultural relationships".

They may well have effects disproportionate to their numbers.

[Crow Boy]

This is interesting because the report is at least 12 months old and published in both the Nation and the Post at that time. It was given a more positive spin then in the English newspapers but raise a fair amount of controversy in the Thai language papers and on the radio/tv talk shows.

The study was about the changes in culture and values in Isaan due to the number of women married to farung husbands and started out as a study of one village that had a large percentage of the women who had married and moved overseas. From memory (always fallable) it started out as one woman who married a Swiss guy and moved back there with him. She got lonely separated by language and cultural differences (understandable) and got someone from the village to visit who ended up marrying another Swiss, another friend came over and the process continued. Some of the men retired and came back to Thailand and bought houses etc in the Isaan village which became a miniture Swiss enclave.

The study continued with the theme that it was all pretty positive for the women and families BUT that the local men could not compete (financially) so were finding it very difficult to get a wife which of course had offshoot issues for them and some understandable ill feelings.

Asst Prof Supawatanakorn Wongtha-nawasu expanded the study to the impacts on Isaan as a whole and came up with some interesting information but the part that caused the controversy in the Thai papers etc were:

1) whole villages had become dependent on farung money for their existence either because of them living there or money being sent back from overseas

2) an increasing percentage of thai girls who said they did not want a Thai husband because they believed the farung were better able to support their family

Some of the posts in this forum have been derogatory about Asst Prof Supawatanakorn Wongtha-nawasu accusing her of bias and such things as "typical Chinese-Thai" bias which is not correct. It would be more accurate to make the comment about the reporting in the newspaper who used small snippets of information to create a minor controversy.

regards

Matt (Crow Boy)

Chiang Mai

[peekint]

This report really smells of a predetermined outcome. The summary of results includes so many value judgements that you can't help but think the investigators found what they were looking for, not looking to see what they might find.

Strange, there didn't see to be any benefits to having a farang husband, according to the study.

On the other hand, I can think of many anecdotal cases in which a clear relationship can be established between having a farang husband (or wife), and the superior education afforded to the children (due to expectation, motivation, and economy).

One of the folks above pointed out the study was done in cities. In what other ways might the sample have been skewed?

[apalink_thailand]

I wonder how much time and money this rediculous survey cost and what impressions it left in the minds of the students who performed it? It smacks of typical Chinese-Thai Taksinesque anti-foreigner sentiment yet again. The simple fact is, the Chinese "powers that be" would prefer ignornace in the ranks. As George Orwell once wrote, "ignorance is bliss".

Maybe they should be studying the work ethics of Isan men. For example, how many hours a week an Isan man spends drinking lao, sleeping and screwing around on his wife and the spread of HIV as a result compared to hours spent actually earning a living. What a load of total <deleted> this "report" is. How could a respectable newspaper like the Nation even consider such tripe? TIT

[Plus]

The study was released "yesterday" according to the Nation. They interviewd 231 Thai wives of of foreign husbands in Khon Kaen, Udon, and Roi Et. There were a few hints that they actually interviewed people in villages rather than urban centers.

[izzyanthony]

Many Thai women in the Northeast who have married foreigners are now keener on eating pizzas and hamburgers than somtam

> Most can't afford it unless a farang is paying

and prefer celebrating Western holidays like Christmas and Valentine's Day to traditional Thai holidays

> farang holidays are about being given gifts instead of paying penance to make merit

The head of the study, Asst Prof Supawatanakorn Wongtha-nawasu

> Now there's a real immigrant Chinese-Thai name if ever i saw one (more than 13 characters in the spelling means Chinese immigrant a reliable source once told me) .... leads to the validity of their entitlement to discuss westerners changing the cultural traditions in Thailand - Chinese have done their fair share of that too ..... think noodles - first made in China and brought here by the Chinese. Ditto for fireworks at Loy Kratong time - adopted from the Chinese New Year practise.

found that foreign son-in-laws had caused the community-oriented Northeasterners to become the more individualistic and give less attention to social interaction.

> More accurate would be that the spouses chose to more closely associate with their husband and the spouses believed their husband did not want to join in with community events due to language issues and feeling awkward when they didn't know what to do at events.

Cross-cultural couples had less interaction with neighbours because foreign husbands faced language and cultural obstacles, while the wives tried to adjust by becoming "farang" rather than helping their husbands to be more 'Thai', Supawatanakorn said.

> More accurate than the preceding statement?

Thai culture in these families was thus overshadowed by Western culture, with the families' own consent, due to the pride of having foreign sons-in-law, she said.

The researchers also found most wives interviewed were either not interested or less enthusiastic about traditional Thai holidays - such as Buddhist Lent and Makha Bucha Day - compared with Western holidays like Christmas Day or Valentine's Day.

"In some Khon Kaen villages, with dozens of women marrying farangs, Christmas Day is no different from the movies with real traditional Christmas celebrations, while many Northeastern festivals were forgotten," the academic said.

> It's the gifts I tell you !!!

On the other hand, many foreign husbands enjoyed celebrating the Songkran festival but did not understand the tradition and meaning behind it, she said.

> Might be true in Issaan, but not in Chiangmai - many farangs living here despise Songkran and even leave the country for a holiday to escape it ..... 10-12 days of it is way too long.

The wives still ate somtam, which they grew up eating, but also ate pizza, hamburgers or fried chicken as a symbol of their adjustment to Western culture.

> No, not as a symbol of adjustment, but to show off the status of being able to afford it, in the same way that low paid government servants put themselves in debt for life to own a Mercedes. Same paradigm, different price tag.

Many ended up eating both local and Western dishes, while their husbands found it harder to adjust to local food and stuck more to Western food.

> Yup - the longer you're here, the more you want an increase in western food in your diet - even if it's what you'd class as junk food back home.

Supawatanakorn said that since the wives found it more convenient to cook once for all family members including their husbands, Northeastern food - especially somtam with fermented fish - had gradually disappeared from their meals, she said.

> Not in my household - the wife BUYS her Somtam 4-5 times a week. She ONLY cooks Thai food and all western food is bought in rather than made.

The study found that most Northeastern Thai women married to foreigners were over 30, with an average age of 35, and had education below secondary level. More than 70 per cent had previously wed and divorced Thai husbands and most had one child from the first marriage.

> Can't help feeling the survey sample was biased in order to reinforce social stereotyping here - education below secondary level ..... meaning they never finished High School? Exactly whose fault was that? And why were the parents not punished for permitting the truancy? I've always found a very high percentage who marry farang have not only finishjed high school, but have also finished college or university, and many of the college students have also returned as adults and done vocational courses as well. Regardless of the qualifications, Thais married to westerners quickly acquire a much wider knowledge of global history, geography, and current affairs than their peers, and they get their eyes opened wide about the same topics related to Thailand itself. They quickly become "Pee" even to their own elders simply because of the wealth of knowledge transferred from being married to someone with a different perspective.

Supawatanakorn said most wives saw their cross-cultural marriage as turning over a new leaf.

> See my comments immediately above ..... trying to be positive here - I'll ignore the stereotyping about money digging.

The average age of farang husbands was 50, and most came from Germany, Britain and Scandinavia. A fourth of those over 60 had brought their retirement funds to settle down with Thai wives who took care of them, Supawatanakorn said.

> Again - very different results in Chiangmai where the average must be nearer to 38-40 for the husbands.

The foreign husbands had an average income of Bt60,000 a month, but most of their wives didn't know their husband's work or educational background. The wives were mainly interested in whether their husbands had enough money to support the family, she said.

> I'm trying to stay off the gold-digger cliches, but it's getting difficult.

The study also found that Isaan families whose members had married foreigners had changed their views on choosing spouses. From the traditional practice of parents choosing spouses for their children, the decision is now made by the individual and is based mainly on economic security. Some women agreed to marry foreigners they had never met before the wedding day as they felt that if the man had money, the villagers would eventually accept and respect them.

> Or, to put it another way - if the man had no money, the villagers would never ...... ?

With the obvious increase in wealth of wives married to farang, due to their husbands' financial support, some 90 per cent of residents surveyed said they wanted their daughters to marry foreigners, Supawatanakorn said.

> More fool the husbands for letting the wives be obvious about the wealth - fastest way I know to empty a wallet is to give the wive carte blanche on buying - in ANY country.

Some girls told the researchers they were prepared to fly overseas to marry a foreigner when they grew up.

> But some of them never do grow up, even after having kids and a string of different husbands.

Cross-cultural marriages were also supported by the older generation as these couples took care of their own children instead of placing the burden on the grandparents, or could afford nannies.

> I'm also trying to stay away from stereotyping about laziness. However, this is maybe the only genuine positive thing said about farangs as spouses for Thais in the whole articvle. Why should retired grandparents get lumbered with their grandkids day-in-day-out ? But then, that's farang thinking for you.

However, the cross-cultural marriage weakened the children's language skills as parents spoke to them in a mix of Thai and English, which confused the kids and made them less fluent in the Thai language, she said.

> Not accepting that. It's up to the parents as to which language they want to be dominant in a mixed race household. Besides, the academic's statement is absolving the educators from ensuring the children reach the minimum standard requiored by academic testing. She's blaming the mixed marriages for the failures of her colleagues in the classroom.

The children's English skills were limited to basic daily communication due to the parents' limited educational background or a less stimulating social environment.

> Absolute twaddle and blame shifting from the teachers in the classroom - my parents didn't teach me my language - my teachers in school did that, and my own intelligence and aptitude then allowed me to expand on that teaching and refine my skills for speaking, listening, reading and writing, building my vocabulary based on those skills, not on what my parents said to me.

In areas with many farang residents there was the phenomenon of shops putting up signs for their goods in Thai and English and of English being spoken between vendors and husbands, Supawatanakorn said.

> And so they should if they want non-mixed race kids to learn enough English to allow Thailand to compete in the global marketplace - everywhere in Thailand should be doing it, just as they do in Malaysia, Singapore and China.

Ever seen an interesting TAT promotional banner, but the whole thing is in Thai? Really makes you feel wanted, doesn't it?

Is it just me, or does the write up of this study not sound just a tad more xenophobic and condemning of foreigners than similar ones over recent years?

Gaz

[Tywais]

They interviewd 231 Thai wives of of foreign husbands in Khon Kaen, Udon, and Roi Et.

That in itself puts a bias on the study and as such much of the outcome should be no surprise.

[Plus]

How is that a bias? They (the wives) were the subject of the study after all. Maybe they should have interviewed 231,000 for a more balanced picture, but I wouldn't dismiss the results as easily as some posters here.

They didn't make it up, most of it, at least. If [many] wives [often] cook western food for the whole family because they can't be arsed to cook two sets of dishes, why argue?

You need to interview 500 women in Isan yourself to prove them wrong.

[OzMan_Bkk]

There seems to quite a disparity between the researcher's conclusions and many of the previous correspondents. I am sure that each of us involved in a mixed culture relationship have a story or two to impart. Not least yours truely.

My partner, Oi, is from a very small village near Khon Kaen. So small that I think half the village is related. Maybe because Oi's grandmother had 13 kids. Obviously before TV reached town. My first visit was during a Songkran festival. There was a daily procession through the village, complete with monks and a band. We all got soaked and had a ball. I seemed to be accepted, even though being the wrong side of 50. I ate the food [yes, including the snails], drank the horrible alcohol in little brown bottles and tortured everyone with my abysmal Thai.

At home in Bangkok we speak english. In fact when Oi first moved in she threatened to fine me B500 for every Thai word I spoke. She knew how important english is in modern Thailand. I can't remember the last time we had pizza, a hamburger, a steak. We eat Thai off the street or a concoction that I cook up sometimes because I enjoy it, like Ozman Fried Rice and Ozman Noodle Surprise. I enjoy somtam [5 chillies only] and sticky rice. I have lost a lot of weight and I feel bloody great.

Maybe my acceptance is because I am Australian. Maybe we are more relaxed and adaptable. As for the researcher, well he is entitled to his somewhat [in my view] narrow opinion. I imagine each mixed couple finds the balance that suits them and their circumstances. I don't think there is a right OR wrong answer. There is just an answer.

Edited November 17, 2006 by OzMan_Bkk

[anon467367354]

Just a thought for the heck of it. I don't think it was the foreigners that married Thai people that brought Mickey Mouse, Hello Kitty, Winnie the Pooh, Warner Bros and that whole gang to the kingdom. Any more than they brought KFC, McDonalds, Pizza Hut, Starbucks, Subway etc. The problem with the Thai and their diet is all they know is Thai. In America deciding what kind of food to eat is a chore especially when deciding with a group of people. The Thai don't really have an interest in trying anything new, but by chance they do and like it, then it's a different story. I live with a Thai family, I cook western style food as well as Thai, being a vegetarian of 30 years, it's what I cook. Most Thai will not eat anything that doesn't have meat in it. They will say, I don't like Je. A recent conversation with my friends sister, "try this, it's delicious" "I don't like it" when have you had guacamole? Never have. Ok, what's it made of? I don't know. How do you know you don't like it? Reason, because it's new and not Thai. I find that a study that seems to demean or incredulize Thai people for eating something other than Thai food pretty ignorant. The whole Disney, Warner Bros, Pooh, Hello Kitty thing is nothing more than ego gratificaton from owning something that gives you the feeling of a mind fabricated rush. Totally the opposite of the Buddha's teachings about desire and suffering. Eating meat because it tastes good, disregard the 1st rule about killing for purposes of sense gratification is again non-Buddist to the hilt. "but Thai people believe" is what I hear, again, using the mind to make you happy,non- Buddhist. Like most people out there, the Thai justify doing whatever they want if it makes them feel good for reasons of sense gratification or belief. Not good or bad, just is. Beliefs change, just ask anyone that had divorce, which is the reason why religions don't work when it's supposed to be about awareness and not mind. Thailand wants to change, but then again they don't want to admit it, or something. A quick word about bi-lingually raised children. studies have shown that children raised speaking more than one language have a more diificult time expressing themselves in any language. Something I have observed, after the study was brought to my attention. In summary, if Thai people want to eat western foods, who cares? If they enjoy Christmas, who cares? Let it be.

[whalers7]

I don't think the study is total rubbish. I have a feeling this negative topic may be hitting to close to home with many posters.

cpt money has a good poiint. The subjects should of been devided into bar girls and non bar girls. and I guess to be fair the men should of been been asked questions to see if they where dirt bags.

sure the topic consentrated on food and culture but their were lots of conotations which We all have picked up on.

from my experience. I somewhat see Isann as the ghetto of thailand (usa style). actually most non Isaan thais hae a negatie view about isaan people as being lazy. scam aritists. who have litle education. Even Isaan folk make fun of thier own stariotype in movies and music videos.

So the topic seems to be about some Isaan becoming "ghetto fabulouse" becouse of wedding a farang. well I think it is what it is. Yet the "reaserchers" seem to have beat around the bush by talking about burgers and som tam.

I also found the topic about bilngual children to be crap, there are to many of us bilingual speekers out there to dispute that far fetched claim.

--------

seriously you should ask a non isaan friend what they think about the region and you will be drawn a prity negative picture.

----

Na, im not trying to be a jerk. I myself am somewhat ghetto.

[teddy_bare]

I like you W*nkers of the World Unite, but maybe we should just pull together!

[Neeranam]

Where can you find western food in Isan? The only place I know of is the McDonalds in the Megamall in Korat

Obviously never been to Khon Kaen - German, French, Italian, British restaurants

[Pakboong]

4 times out of 5, these type conclusions are pre-emptive and are designed to serve a greater political motive. In view of what has happened in Thailand in the last 6 months, I would expect that this survey was not the newspaper's idea. Probably fed to them by the press secretary

[tourist43]

Several aspects of this topic strike me as interesting:

1. While academics attempt what they hope will be a representative survey (choosing a proper sample is the big challenge), and then try to summarize accurately what they find, each of us has personal experience in this area that make the study's results seem skewed. Debate and skepticism always greet reports like this.

2. The economic motives of the people in the Northeast come through clearly in this study; it's easy to see why Thaksin's populist policies were so successful in obtaining the political support of this region. One might be forgiven for believing that the Northeast is willing to sell its very soul.

3. Diet and language are relatively superficial aspects of culture. The real roots of behavior, the deeper values and mindset of the people, are almost certainly less affected by foreign husbands than the study suggests. The decrease in the level of social (community) involvement, however, hints at long-term changes that could be profound. The scholars will know more -- assuming they look -- in a generation or two.

4. While the study focuses on alien husbands, there is an aspect of culture change in the Thai Northeast that is even more significant than that prompted by Westerners who marry locals: the colonization of the region by Muslim men from the deep south. Multiple wives, large families, the need for mosques and Islamic schools, and the inability of any Muslim to leave Islam are all factors that will have huge long-term consequences. This, not a few Westerners living in the region, will alter the character of the Northeast in fundamental ways -- and permanently. Yet little if anything is being said about this, and as far as I know no one is studying it. If you know of such research, please tell me about it.

Clearly, the Northeast is changing, and will continue to. Meanwhile the vicious prejudices of the Central Thais and the economic/educational/geographical-agricultural facts of life, combined with the feudal traditions of Thai business/politics, all conspire to perpetuate the region's problems. Poverty is valuable: without it, many Western men would be closed out of the marriage market, Thai politicians would find it much harder to seize and hold the power to bleed the taxpayers, the cost of services would rise in the urban areas, the middle class would be threatened, and the literal missionaries of Islam would find it much more difficult to alter the demography of Thailand. Only the poor have an interest in reducing poverty, and that task is beyond their ability.

[hardy1943]

However, the cross-cultural marriage weakened the children's language skills as parents spoke to them in a mix of Thai and English, which confused the kids and made them less fluent in the Thai language, she said.

The findings are generally a little sad. But, the above quote is highly questionable. It's a fact that young children don't have a problem with learning not two but even more languages similtaneously. Those of you who live in a bilingual society will be able to understand.

Mainland European's are routinely able to speak multiple languages. Children are sponges and will learn whatever languages are spoken around them. Even if the English speaker is not speaking technically correct the children will learn English much better than most Thais simply by virtue of being exposed to it at a formative age.

Many children move to America and not knowing any English and start school at the age of 14

like I did . I am complete BILINGUAL and it was never confusing just a great asset and now I am teaching my daughters English and they speak it better then their Thai English teacher.

[nikster]

Is it just me, or does the write up of this study not sound just a tad more xenophobic and condemning of foreigners than similar ones over recent years?

It kinda does - the author's own prejudices and beliefs are as present as the underlying data which he wants to present.

The reality is very simple. There are many poor women in Thailand and they value not being poor, and there are rich men coming from foreign countries who absolutely want to marry them and take care of them and their families, it's a match made in heaven. So, it happens.

In addition - oh shock - cultures mix. Children learn English! OMG.

I think it was Sharon Stone who said "I love rich men. People say I love them just because they are rich, but men love me just because I am beautiful, so what's the difference?". And she was absolutely right, in her way.

[s.pylos]

To be fair, I think everyone needs to understand that this is a study--it's not research. Many of the things that have been surveyed are attitudes and beliefs about things. It doesn't site, for example, how often these wives tend to eat western food. It doesn't compare that trend with the overall trend of people eating more western (fast) food.

...

And the whole-lot of you suddenly-graduated-and -expert-in-thai-social-studies are also forgetting that you are not reading the actual study, but a report about it in The Nation... A bit of humility maybe?

[sandy]

[Plus]

3. Diet and language are relatively superficial aspects of culture. The real roots of behavior, the deeper values and mindset of the people, are almost certainly less affected by foreign husbands than the study suggests. The decrease in the level of social (community) involvement, however, hints at long-term changes that could be profound. The scholars will know more -- assuming they look -- in a generation or two.

I don't think that they are superficial aspects, especially language, ... and food, too, come to think of it. If people eat different food and speak different languages, they are culturally different. Imagine these children grow up despising somtam. You can't call them Isan Thai anymore, and it's not because they don't eat it, but because of their attitudes.

If farang kids can't speak Thai as required of them, Thais might sound alarm bells, if they don't attend Buddhist ceremonies, Thais might start alarm bells. They obviously want to preserve their own, Thai culture and religion.

In a generation or two the process will be irreversible. It will be too late then.

For each negative finding there are two sides - Thais are as much at fault as farangs here. For one thing, you can't blame people who'd never ever in their lives get ownership of their houses, residency permits, let alone citizenships, of not being "integrated". On the other hand, most of these farangs can't read or write Thai - how can they expect to be integrated?

Maybe, despite of all self-professed love for Thailand, farangs never feel quite welcomed and accepted here. It's a big topic, every paragraph in that study deserves a separate thread.

[toptuan]

Overall, a very xenophobic-skewed survey. Bottom line: "Hit the panic button!!! They're wiping out our culture!!" (Ergo: "Clamp down on those 30-day visa runners!")

Two years ago, the Bangkok Post did an an almost identical study with dramatically different conclusions. Their major take on Isaan women marrying westerners was that it contributed to family stability and fulfillment in Thailand's Northeast.

The women's motivation? Isaan women were fed up with philandering, drunk husbands who couldn't support the family and provide an adequate role model for their sons and daughters.

The Post profiled a village in which over 30 women had married Swiss expats. It quadrupled the standard of living for the whole village and opened new vistas for education, travel and cross-cultural input for the children who otherwise would have remained "buffalo boys/girls" for the rest of their lives. Most of the Swiss husbands took on more economic responsibility than just his immediate family, to include other extended members such as parents, aunts and uncles of the wife.

Of course, consider the source, also--The Bangkok Post--voice of the expat in Thailand.

Edited November 17, 2006 by toptuan

[AndyCanfield]

The survey results seem to me highly accurate in reflecting the situation in Isan. Gaz apparently sees something different in Chaingmai. Do the same survey in Bangkok and you'll see something different. Here in Isan, it's women with a child from a broken relationship with a Thai man, grabbing an older farang husband. The husband provides security for her and her child and her parents. The Isan lady provides comfort and care and excitement for the man. You take care of me and I take care of you. Many farang men are in this position. I know - I am one.

I see no inaccuracy in this survey. So many ladies in Isan have given up on an Isan husband because he is lazy and drunk. So how does she feed the baby? She wants a farang. Feed her, feed her baby, feed her parents, and you can keep her forever. No feminism in this village. Take a survey at Soi Cowboy, or Nana Plaza, or Patpong.

Gaz thinks the survey is biased because most of the wives interviewed do not have a high school education. Gaz, darned near nobody in Isan has a high school education. Most people here only stay in school as long as the government requires them to. As soon as they can get out, they go to work in the field or in a Bangkok factory. That's not study bias, that's culture bias.

[Plus]

Nah, I read the same story in the Nation, it was probably done by the same research group. If you noticed, this time they are talking about impact on typical Thai values, subject they didn't even touch last year.

[Rhys]

Better watch out the culture commission will come to get ya.... 555555

[nikster]

However, the cross-cultural marriage weakened the children's language skills as parents spoke to them in a mix of Thai and English, which confused the kids and made them less fluent in the Thai language, she said.

The findings are generally a little sad. But, the above quote is highly questionable. It's a fact that young children don't have a problem with learning not two but even more languages similtaneously. Those of you who live in a bilingual society will be able to understand.

Mainland European's are routinely able to speak multiple languages. Children are sponges and will learn whatever languages are spoken around them. Even if the English speaker is not speaking technically correct the children will learn English much better than most Thais simply by virtue of being exposed to it at a formative age.

Many children move to America and not knowing any English and start school at the age of 14

like I did . I am complete BILINGUAL and it was never confusing just a great asset and now I am teaching my daughters English and they speak it better then their Thai English teacher.

I would go a bit further and just say it: The original article's assumption that growing up with multiple languages is "confusing" is complete BS. It's been shown that kids will be slower to start speaking when growing up with multiple languages but the benefits far outweigh that by a far margin.

Royalty has been teaching their kids multiple languages from the earliest age for hundreds of years. With good reason.

[hardy1943]

The survey results seem to me highly accurate in reflecting the situation in Isan. Gaz apparently sees something different in Chaingmai. Do the same survey in Bangkok and you'll see something different. Here in Isan, it's women with a child from a broken relationship with a Thai man, grabbing an older farang husband. The husband provides security for her and her child and her parents. The Isan lady provides comfort and care and excitement for the man. You take care of me and I take care of you. Many farang men are in this position. I know - I am one.

I see no inaccuracy in this survey. So many ladies in Isan have given up on an Isan husband because he is lazy and drunk. So how does she feed the baby? She wants a farang. Feed her, feed her baby, feed her parents, and you can keep her forever. No feminism in this village. Take a survey at Soi Cowboy, or Nana Plaza, or Patpong.

Gaz thinks the survey is biased because most of the wives interviewed do not have a high school education. Gaz, darned near nobody in Isan has a high school education. Most people here only stay in school as long as the government requires them to. As soon as they can get out, they go to work in the field or in a Bangkok factory. That's not study bias, that's culture bias.

The same thing applies to Chiang Rai province. I know- I am one also

[BigSnake]

yes indeed we Farang husband bring BIG big changes and those with big money like my friend John is a Bonus. "enough said"

[Steph1012]

It's just another hysterical reaction from acedemia. The basis for the report is probably that they are noticing many lower class people getting ideas above their station.

Whats behind this is that many of our kids are whiter and richer than the Chinese Thais. Pale skin is thought of as beautiful in Thailand and its always been a way to keep the Issan folk in their place ie. poor and greatful to produce rice at 10 baht per kilo for those lovely grasping Chinese middle men.

In the next 20 years, the Luk Krung will me earning immense wages compared to their parents and especially grandparents and they will be educated. This will be a serious threat to the current middle classes as their pool of cheap labour dries up. My wife is a great english speaker these days and does it ever piss off the Bank staff, sales people and Estate agents. Even more so when we go to schools and Universities and she has to translate because the proffessors and principals hardly peak a word of English, all of whom are whiter than her.

Most of the northern way of life came about through being kept in grinding poverty anyway. In my view, Issan people work much incredibly hard, then laze about. They don't have the money or the spare energy to be going to gyms, on cycling holidays, and all the other activites that are available to the middle classes in Bangkok.

Its only the falangs that have started to impact on this in the last 20-30 years or so.

Culture my arse, its the big fight to preserve the status quo. Lost already I hope!

Edited November 17, 2006 by Steph1012