Investing in the SET - where to learn?

[Johnniey]

I opened an account with Maybank Kim http://www.maybank-ke.co.th/en/

I want to start buying stock more for a bit of fun to start with and to learn about it for the future.

Can any of you financial experts suggest a good place(site, forum) or book to learn all about it?

Can I buy gold an other precious metals from it?

Cheers

[fiddlehead]

I bought some K-bank stock about 8 years ago and sold it this year.

All through Kim Eng, which is now Maybank.

Had a bit of a problem getting the money, but eventually they gave it up.

The trick is timing.
Watch the market, pick some stocks, buy on the dips, sell on the peaks.
Or, hold it long term like I did if you believe in a company.

If you want to trade daily or weekly, chances are you'll lose as many say it's a fixed market.
How knows.

Anyway, in the US, I use Charles Schwab and their website has tips that I read.
But that's for the US stock market.

For Thailand? I like banks, maybe the cement company, maybe something in construction.
I'd stay away from airlines here.

But you asked for a website.

Here's one that appears to show some chart reading. (which I always try to figure out, but often guess wrong):

https://www.facebook.com/SETResearch/

Here's another one for Thailand; https://thaistocks.com/

Years ago, I was in an investment club which was fun.
But we lost a lot.
We were not all that bad at picking winners, but the timing killed us and we didn't know when to sell.
(basically we sold our winners and held on to our losers)
We disbanded after losing too much.
Half were conservative and half were gamblers.
We had fun anyway.

Remember, it's legalized gambling so, don't bet more than you can lose.

(by the way, my Kbank more than doubled in those 8 years, but that's because I basically stopped watching it, and didn't get emotional on the ups and downs) (or I probably would have sold it a few times)

Have fun.
Don't lose too much.

Hopefully.

[Johnniey]

I bought some K-bank stock about 8 years ago and sold it this year.

All through Kim Eng, which is now Maybank.

Had a bit of a problem getting the money, but eventually they gave it up.

The trick is timing.

Watch the market, pick some stocks, buy on the dips, sell on the peaks.

Or, hold it long term like I did if you believe in a company.

If you want to trade daily or weekly, chances are you'll lose as many say it's a fixed market.

How knows.

Anyway, in the US, I use Charles Schwab and their website has tips that I read.

But that's for the US stock market.

For Thailand? I like banks, maybe the cement company, maybe something in construction.

I'd stay away from airlines here.

But you asked for a website.

Here's one that appears to show some chart reading. (which I always try to figure out, but often guess wrong):

https://www.facebook.com/SETResearch/

Here's another one for Thailand; https://thaistocks.com/

Years ago, I was in an investment club which was fun.

But we lost a lot.

We were not all that bad at picking winners, but the timing killed us and we didn't know when to sell.

(basically we sold our winners and held on to our losers)

We disbanded after losing too much.

Half were conservative and half were gamblers.

We had fun anyway.

Remember, it's legalized gambling so, don't bet more than you can lose.

(by the way, my Kbank more than doubled in those 8 years, but that's because I basically stopped watching it, and didn't get emotional on the ups and downs) (or I probably would have sold it a few times)

Have fun.

Don't lose too much.

Hopefully.

Thanks very much, you've been very helpful. Nice to be reminded it is gambling!

[maewang99]

Two things to add to the reference to Schwab,. Excellent trades when it's a Thai stock, all handled by Phatra. But the shares, as always with non Thai brokers are held in nominee name, without even for the asking and even if you ask otherwise..... because the first thing to know about the Thai stock market is that the dividends give an extra kick of the corporate tax paid ahead of the dividend, if you are in Thailand for 180 days in any tax year. The kick is usually worth 3/7 of the dividend paid so a 7% yielding Thai stock actually has a cash payout of 10%. Very nice. I've been filing for these more than 10 years in a row. You keep the orange mailer from the TSD. As for the general gist, the Thai stock market is great because it is one market run by a single computer system, except for a few big lot outside trades. Everyone has a fair shot, and you can act as a market maker yourself. That's one way to work it. Books! Al Brooks trilogy. Very difficult to read, because he was a real trader. But if you can pick up the gist of it... it works in heady markets, which we are headed for now I think. Especially with DW warrants, whereas you can instantly go short as well as long on most Thai bigcaps. Enjoy! And profit! Brooks books are titled about "Price Action". You have to have nerves of steel, though, because the market almost always moves against you for a short time. Always. And number 1, if you ain't at least a little bit scared... you are making a mistake. A good trade is always hard to do. That's not Brook's, but you know it applies everywhere but especially here I think. The action is short timed, as the undervalued long term picks either are very rare (were bought in on as we went from 300 to 1,400 on the general SET index) or already in play.. but there are still a few!

Edited July 12, 2016 by maewang99

[Johnniey]

^^^

Sounds like double Dutch to me but thanks for the reply. I'll check out the book.

I don't pay any tax, do I have to claim?

[Buzzz]

Thinking of trading and timing the market? Huge mistake. You will eventually learn this but it might be too late.

This poster has learned:

"(by the way, my Kbank more than doubled in those 8 years, but that's because I basically stopped watching it, and didn't get emotional on the ups and downs) (or I probably would have sold it a few times)"

Edited July 12, 2016 by Buzzz

[Buzzz]

John Bogel has been named #1 in the investopedia hall of fame.

He is the conscience of the average investor and has gone up against the $650 billion "investment industry".

Read this before you start day trading.

Also, go to YouTube to listen to some of his interviews. Good stuff.

[Oxx]

John Bogel has been named #1 in the investopedia hall of fame.

He is the conscience of the average investor and has gone up against the $650 billion "investment industry".

Read this before you start day trading.

That book has nothing whatsoever to do with day trading, or the trading of individual equities. It's about funds. Totally irrelevant.

And whilst Bogel might be well known, let it be remembered he's the founder of the Vanguard group which sells passive (index) products, so of course he's going to be unduly negative about active fund management.

[fiddlehead]

Here's a book (free version even): http://site.iugaza.edu.ps/wdaya/files/2013/03/A-Random-Walk-Down-Wall-Street.pdf

That my brother follows to this day.
He is much more successful at buying (selling???) stocks than I am.

I now buy index funds and buy to hold, till I need the money.
It's not nearly as much fun as buying things I think will do good.
But much more profitable, LOL!

Again, this is based on US stocks and bonds and NOT the Thai SET.

But, it's good to know the basics and some of the emotional things that WILL go through your mind once you start.

[maewang99]

Watch out. Everyone who has ever "played" the market for a few years has advice. To be any kind of expert in anything you need to spend many hours a day for many years, studying and doing it. Also... always have a specific and as fairly lengthy ***written*** assessment of why you took on any particular trade, before you do so. Review that ***written*** assessment periodically and update it based on new information. Don't use your emotions or even your "gut" as it is what messes folk up. Those are exactly the folks you are going to make money from. And always have a stop, you need nerves of steel because there are folks whose strategy is to make your stop get hit and then jump onto your position which was entirely right all the way along. When you do get burned..... use it to learn, and not go around telling other folks all kinds of nonsense about it being gambling. You gamble if you live. You can't expect to win a swimming meet after paddling around a few laps in the backyard pool. We all tell ourselves and others all kinds of nonsense. learn not to buy it. The real negative about trading.... is that it can change how you look at things.. it can change who you are.

Edited July 13, 2016 by maewang99

[Buzzz]

Bogles advice is to mirror the market through an index strategy instead of trying to beat the market.

Historical results have borne out what looked controversial in 1974, when Bogle founded Vanguard.

Passive long term index funds are a solid investment strategy.

For instance, there were 562 actively managed funds in the U.S. large-growth category and 25 passively managed funds.

In the 10 years leading up to Dec. 31, 2014, passively managed funds' was an average 9.27 percent versus actively managed funds' 8.05 percent, according to Morningstar.

The average investor with long term index holdings beats the professionals by reducing trading costs, fees, capitol gains tax and emotional decisions.

[maewang99]

Just think about one recent thing.... if you believe passively following the general market is a winning idea still. Despite all the stuff Japan has gone through post WWII, up and down, it was only last week that their 20 year debt went negative. Only last week. Get small and get nasty... look for businesses that make money and are "paw peang" and they do have some that are actually publicly listed, in Thailand because they get benefits from that listing. If you want to go with a longer time frame than day trading. And it also helps you to be Opposite George in all things that you do, look where others fear or are bored. Don't go for anything at all intuitively obvious to most folks.... that's the losing thing.

Edited July 13, 2016 by maewang99

[1FinickyOne]

For most, the idea of playing the market is a losing strategy... you want fun - it is only fun when you are winning, otherwise it is pain and since the market goes up and down, the question will be your tolerance for pain...

Investing is a whole other thing - you can spends hours, days and your life's time pouring over corporate reports and statements, hope they are true, hope you are correct, hope they are indicative of future performance... this is not an easy road - it is also a full time job...

So, given that, why not buy mutual funds and leave that to the professionals. Buy and hold is the best philosophy. Pull up a 20 year and 50 year chart of the dow or S&P 500... then look at a month here and there - there can be a huge drop or gain in a weeks time... but you will see that over the years, the indexes go up...

If you are young, add to your holdings regularly... making money is more fun than losing it through impulsive, unknowledgeable trading.

Good luck...

[orpheus454]

Two things to add to the reference to Schwab,. Excellent trades when it's a Thai stock, all handled by Phatra. But the shares, as always with non Thai brokers are held in nominee name, without even for the asking and even if you ask otherwise..... because the first thing to know about the Thai stock market is that the dividends give an extra kick of the corporate tax paid ahead of the dividend, if you are in Thailand for 180 days in any tax year. The kick is usually worth 3/7 of the dividend paid so a 7% yielding Thai stock actually has a cash payout of 10%. Very nice. I've been filing for these more than 10 years in a row. You keep the orange mailer from the TSD. As for the general gist, the Thai stock market is great because it is one market run by a single computer system, except for a few big lot outside trades. Everyone has a fair shot, and you can act as a market maker yourself. That's one way to work it. Books! Al Brooks trilogy. Very difficult to read, because he was a real trader. But if you can pick up the gist of it... it works in heady markets, which we are headed for now I think. Especially with DW warrants, whereas you can instantly go short as well as long on most Thai bigcaps. Enjoy! And profit! Brooks books are titled about "Price Action". You have to have nerves of steel, though, because the market almost always moves against you for a short time. Always. And number 1, if you ain't at least a little bit scared... you are making a mistake. A good trade is always hard to do. That's not Brook's, but you know it applies everywhere but especially here I think. The action is short timed, as the undervalued long term picks either are very rare (were bought in on as we went from 300 to 1,400 on the general SET index) or already in play.. but there are still a few!

This will vary, depending on the company's tax status. There may even be no franking at all.

[Oxx]

Bogles advice is to mirror the market through an index strategy instead of trying to beat the market.

Historical results have borne out what looked controversial in 1974, when Bogle founded Vanguard.

Passive long term index funds are a solid investment strategy.

For instance, there were 562 actively managed funds in the U.S. large-growth category and 25 passively managed funds.

In the 10 years leading up to Dec. 31, 2014, passively managed funds' was an average 9.27 percent versus actively managed funds' 8.05 percent, according to Morningstar.

The average investor with long term index holdings beats the professionals by reducing trading costs, fees, capitol gains tax and emotional decisions.

Oh dear, somebody's been drinking the passive investment Kool-Aid.

(1) So the average of actively managed funds is less than passively run ones. That doesn't mean that all actively managed funds underperform the passive ones: some outperform. The important thing is to do one's research into the fund management and identify those funds which are likely to outperform, and many do so consistently over years and years.

(2) The US equity market is rather different from the rest of the world because of its efficiency. In other markets (including Thailand) it's much easier for active fund managers to outperform.

[orpheus454]

^^^

Sounds like double Dutch to me but thanks for the reply. I'll check out the book.

I don't pay any tax, do I have to claim?

Yes, you would have to file a tax return to get the benefit.

[sendintheclowns]

investing for 40 years. a few lessons learned:

1. don't place too much trust in what your broker tells you.

2. rule of thumb is - sell on news, very very rarely, buy on news

3. if you take a profit, you cannot lose money.

4. sign up for Investor Relations news from a company you are interested in

5. Very good research available at several Thai stockbrokers

avoid Thai bank -stocks earnings need careful (and educated) reading - due to the impact caused by changes in the amount of reserves they record for iffy

6. before buying a stock, research for (at least) the following:

1. PER price earnings ratio

2. PEG measures genuine growth

3. YIELD

4. DIVIDEND COVER: (inverted measure of ''the % of earnings paid out'')

5. the hi and lo for the3 past 12 months.

all of this info is readily available at numerous websites.

This may seem too complicated, too much info. If it is, with respect, I suggest youre not ready to strat buying stocks yet.

good fortune (not luck) with your investing.

Edited July 13, 2016 by sendintheclowns

[Orac]

Two things to add to the reference to Schwab,. Excellent trades when it's a Thai stock, all handled by Phatra. But the shares, as always with non Thai brokers are held in nominee name, without even for the asking and even if you ask otherwise..... because the first thing to know about the Thai stock market is that the dividends give an extra kick of the corporate tax paid ahead of the dividend, if you are in Thailand for 180 days in any tax year. The kick is usually worth 3/7 of the dividend paid so a 7% yielding Thai stock actually has a cash payout of 10%. Very nice. I've been filing for these more than 10 years in a row. You keep the orange mailer from the TSD. As for the general gist, the Thai stock market is great because it is one market run by a single computer system, except for a few big lot outside trades. Everyone has a fair shot, and you can act as a market maker yourself. That's one way to work it. Books! Al Brooks trilogy. Very difficult to read, because he was a real trader. But if you can pick up the gist of it... it works in heady markets, which we are headed for now I think. Especially with DW warrants, whereas you can instantly go short as well as long on most Thai bigcaps. Enjoy! And profit! Brooks books are titled about "Price Action". You have to have nerves of steel, though, because the market almost always moves against you for a short time. Always. And number 1, if you ain't at least a little bit scared... you are making a mistake. A good trade is always hard to do. That's not Brook's, but you know it applies everywhere but especially here I think. The action is short timed, as the undervalued long term picks either are very rare (were bought in on as we went from 300 to 1,400 on the general SET index) or already in play.. but there are still a few!

Is this corporation tax kick back already taken into account in the dividend payout or something that needs to be claimed from the tax office seperately. I have been investing small amounts in the SET for a couple of years and have a few of the TSCD slips but, since i don't pay any tax here, had not looked into wether any of the tax was reclaimable.

As a source for info on Thai shares thaicapitalist.com has some useful insights. Also the Maybank website or app (i find the app better) has a few useful tools and research notes on Thai companies, sectors and the market as a whole though they do seem to be over bullish in quite a few cases IMHO.

[maewang99]

Ooopps. You asked about filing. Get a tax ID, easy. File before the end of March at any Jungwat regional Revenue office, they will do all the paperwork for you. My first time was in Phayao, I assumed I would owe some money. When they said the number XXX,XXX baht I thought "oh my gosh I should have listened to my Thai wife (and not filed any Thai tax return)". That is not small change but heh.... I am x-Enrolled IRS. Like my German-American mom & dad, I do all legal things for sure by the letter. Maybe not so bad after all..... they (the folks at Phayao Revenue) added that I should get my check in a few weeks. Huh? Wow!!! Yeah, my REFUND check. It was only after a day or so on the web that I knew for sure the scoop. The orange mailers from the TSD that you get for holding Thai securities with a Thai broker (not as a nominee) are worth real cash. It's not just that... I picked as I still do counters that make money and pay out around 25% or 30% or so. I stay away from anything that doesn't pay out or pays out more than they are a'makin'... sound correct? You don't think that way... or get refunds... if you hold a fund or hold the stuff using a non-Thai broker. Also... Maybank Kim Eng... English speaking.. yes. Talk to my old friend Wittaya who works near the Central Festival office of MB... difficult to find, just after the Big C going south on the big ring road or whatever it is, the one the bus station and Lanna H is off of. Wittaya can give you the SET basics and trading for sure, but best in person not email. He's not a prolific email writer, which is cool.

Ooops again... by 25 to 30% I don't mean yield... I mean the really important figure... dividends paid per sh / EPS as a pct, in case someone gets confused. Just as with most things, you not only don't want too little oi something.... but don't want "too much" either. They should be well padded and doing something with the cash than just handing it out unless it is an insurance.... or listed securities broker.

Edited July 13, 2016 by maewang99

[Time Traveller]

Two things to add to the reference to Schwab,. Excellent trades when it's a Thai stock, all handled by Phatra. But the shares, as always with non Thai brokers are held in nominee name, without even for the asking and even if you ask otherwise..... because the first thing to know about the Thai stock market is that the dividends give an extra kick of the corporate tax paid ahead of the dividend, if you are in Thailand for 180 days in any tax year. The kick is usually worth 3/7 of the dividend paid so a 7% yielding Thai stock actually has a cash payout of 10%. Very nice. I've been filing for these more than 10 years in a row. You keep the orange mailer from the TSD. As for the general gist, the Thai stock market is great because it is one market run by a single computer system, except for a few big lot outside trades. Everyone has a fair shot, and you can act as a market maker yourself. That's one way to work it. Books! Al Brooks trilogy. Very difficult to read, because he was a real trader. But if you can pick up the gist of it... it works in heady markets, which we are headed for now I think. Especially with DW warrants, whereas you can instantly go short as well as long on most Thai bigcaps. Enjoy! And profit! Brooks books are titled about "Price Action". You have to have nerves of steel, though, because the market almost always moves against you for a short time. Always. And number 1, if you ain't at least a little bit scared... you are making a mistake. A good trade is always hard to do. That's not Brook's, but you know it applies everywhere but especially here I think. The action is short timed, as the undervalued long term picks either are very rare (were bought in on as we went from 300 to 1,400 on the general SET index) or already in play.. but there are still a few!

Is this corporation tax kick back already taken into account in the dividend payout or something that needs to be claimed from the tax office seperately. I have been investing small amounts in the SET for a couple of years and have a few of the TSCD slips but, since i don't pay any tax here, had not looked into wether any of the tax was reclaimable.

As a source for info on Thai shares thaicapitalist.com has some useful insights. Also the Maybank website or app (i find the app better) has a few useful tools and research notes on Thai companies, sectors and the market as a whole though they do seem to be over bullish in quite a few cases IMHO.

The dividend statement has the tax credit written on it. To claim it back you will need to add all of your dividend to your income and file a tax return

[maewang99]

The tax refund thing is so big a deal that for many small caps.... management gives out their net tax rate along with their quarterly comments that are put on the SET website... because they know how many folks want to know that. It can be great fun to press F5 to see your company's quarterly reports show up, every 3 months. The data that shows up on the orange mailers isn't too easy to decipher as well. My point, the refund thing is really big for many folks. Also, about this, unlike western markets, Thai stocks don't always or even usually drop by the XD amount... a very telling signal about how much the Thai market is retail versus institutional.. and yet another reason why a little guy or gal can do well here but not back home where the rocket scientist munchkins do stuff like trade in "dark pools" and go around your own trades to make even more money off of you. Here a click of your mouse is almost just as good, or better than, one done by a Phatra back office girl in Bangrak. The big guys are not that automated... and the tons of retail traders outweigh them here as well. Believe me. Even the big DW warrant programs seem to be so.

Edited July 13, 2016 by maewang99

[Buzzz]

Bogles advice is to mirror the market through an index strategy instead of trying to beat the market.

Historical results have borne out what looked controversial in 1974, when Bogle founded Vanguard.

Passive long term index funds are a solid investment strategy.

For instance, there were 562 actively managed funds in the U.S. large-growth category and 25 passively managed funds.

In the 10 years leading up to Dec. 31, 2014, passively managed funds' was an average 9.27 percent versus actively managed funds' 8.05 percent, according to Morningstar.

The average investor with long term index holdings beats the professionals by reducing trading costs, fees, capitol gains tax and emotional decisions.

Oh dear, somebody's been drinking the passive investment Kool-Aid.

(1) So the average of actively managed funds is less than passively run ones. That doesn't mean that all actively managed funds underperform the passive ones: some outperform. The important thing is to do one's research into the fund management and identify those funds which are likely to outperform, and many do so consistently over years and years.

Passive investor kool aid?

What a load of crap.

You are now recommending "chasing performance" (invest in last years winner)

Good luck with your 'beat the market' strategy.

[maewang99]

Some really good objective data is the monthly Thai Customs data which is only a few weeks old and goes to 12 HS code digits. And unlike the USA, it is free and online to everyone. There's a few quirks about getting it to work, but you can acquaint yourself with them in about 10 minutes. HS codes for those who don't know mean that you can drill down to get something as small as how many boxes of paperclips were imported as of 3 weeks ago or how many automotive air bags were shipped out of the country that has the world's biggest airbag fabric plant. That would be Thailand. Yes, Thailand. But be careful, sometimes you need to track more than one HS code category to get the whole picture. It is also broken down by export/import destination country. Japan also gives this data out. I have not been able to get USA data for free at all after many tries and research Anyone know how to do that? I think you must pay for it. Not in Thailand. It's an almost equal playing field.... amazing... but only if you have money and know the game... which easily leaves out many more folks here than it ever could in the west for the most obvious of all reasons. It starts with the letter L. yes?

Edited July 13, 2016 by maewang99

[Oxx]

Passive investor kool aid?

What a load of crap.

You are now recommending "chasing performance" (invest in last years winner)

Good luck with your 'beat the market' strategy.

Try reading and understanding what I wrote: "do one's research into the fund management and identify those funds which are likely to outperform". Nothing there to do with "chasing performance".

And I don't need "good luck". I'm doing quite nicely, thanks.

Just one example (out of many in my portfolio), Ruffer European (which I've held for more than 10 years) versus SPDR MSCI Europe UCITS ETF. Both are Europe including UK.

Chart is performance over 10 years in GBP with reinvestment of income and after charges.

Could anybody rational seriously claim that the performance of the index tracking ETF is preferable?

[jippytum]

visit various brokers trading rooms. Choose the company you feel most comfortable with . Other investors will be happy to give you basic advice and you can make friends . Beware however everyone is 'an expert' don't rush in at first and follow your own instincts from your own research .

[Buzzz]

A proper portfolio of stocks will be diversified. Say 25 stocks.

That's really going to mirror the Index and be allot of work with trading expenses, fees, taxes, losses and your time involved.

That is why the 'boring' Index funds best the professional investor consistently.

[Oxx]

The OP might find Jitta of interest.

Here, for example, is Jitta's analysis of Thai Airways:

https://www.jitta.com/stock/bkk:thai

[how241]

It's all timing (LUCK) , just like any casino. Good Luck .

[Johnniey]

John Bogel has been named #1 in the investopedia hall of fame.

He is the conscience of the average investor and has gone up against the $650 billion "investment industry".

Read this before you start day trading.

That book has nothing whatsoever to do with day trading, or the trading of individual equities. It's about funds. Totally irrelevant.

And whilst Bogel might be well known, let it be remembered he's the founder of the Vanguard group which sells passive (index) products, so of course he's going to be unduly negative about active fund management.

Actually I'm interested in Mutual Funds instead of a pension. Been here most my life so won't get a UK pension. Is this wise. I'm 53 now so looking to put away a substantial amount every month now my kids have grown up(well nearly)

[Johnniey]

Watch out. Everyone who has ever "played" the market for a few years has advice. To be any kind of expert in anything you need to spend many hours a day for many years, studying and doing it. Also... always have a specific and as fairly lengthy ***written*** assessment of why you took on any particular trade, before you do so. Review that ***written*** assessment periodically and update it based on new information. Don't use your emotions or even your "gut" as it is what messes folk up. Those are exactly the folks you are going to make money from. And always have a stop, you need nerves of steel because there are folks whose strategy is to make your stop get hit and then jump onto your position which was entirely right all the way along. When you do get burned..... use it to learn, and not go around telling other folks all kinds of nonsense about it being gambling. You gamble if you live. You can't expect to win a swimming meet after paddling around a few laps in the backyard pool. We all tell ourselves and others all kinds of nonsense. learn not to buy it. The real negative about trading.... is that it can change how you look at things.. it can change who you are.

Good advice. I used to be a professional poker player so know all about variance and the emotional roller-coaster!