Thailand Referendum: Draft constitution wins approval

[dcnx]

4 hours ago, MaiChai said:

Does this mean Prayut will be replaced by a Senate pm fairly soon?

 

Only to have them vote for Prayut.

[Winniedapu]

34 minutes ago, tuanku said:

On to elections then. Interesting to see if any populist party is able to form and stand, and if so, if the previous voting patterns remain. Time for some new blood in politics, perhaps from the students who have led the resistance to the Junta. Once the unspeakable event happens, the political landscape may change again.

 

Oddly, since the balances of power mandated in the new constitution are so heavily stacked against the idea of an elected government being allowed to be effective, I  suspect the result from Sunday has made violent conflict in Thailand almost inevitable now, since it will prove impossible for any peace-time government to amend the constitution, which is what was intended.

 

This is what Thaksin gets for playing by the rules against a power bloc that feels no such need. Whether or not he intended it, I think Thaksin is now almost irrelevant. Perhaps he ran out of puff or conviction, or perhaps he just got old and stopped giving a damn, which would be understandable. I think Thailand must await the rise of a new leader for the nation's heartland.

 

The fat lady is singing.

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[exalll]

16 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Not relevant - you're comparing apples and oranges. This was a referendum not an election. 

 

The percentage of eligible voters supporting the draft constitution was 33%. Not an accolade for Mr Prayuth by any stretch of the imagination.

 

The percentage of eligible voters supporting Pheua Thai in the 2011 election was 32% (66% turn-out, of which 48% voted PT).

 

So if we can agree that the 2011 election was not an accolade for the Shins "by any stretch of the imagination", then we can agree the same for Prayuth.

 

Deal?

[louse1953]

33 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Why is it rubbish? The fact that the draft constitution was supported by only a third of eligible voters certainly isn't rubbish. I doubt they chose peace, they chose futility, which ultimately will not be peace, imho.

 

"These are the same type of people that went to Bangkok and stood against the might of the Army and police".

 

And were shot down like dogs for their trouble. By a Prayuth-commanded section of the 'Royal' Thai Army whose job it is to secure the safety of the Thai people from external threat.

 

I cannot for the life of me see your logic, though I wouldn't dram of calling it rubbish. That just wouldn't be polite.

 

Winnie

And yet the majority of people who voted for a Prayuth inspired charter voted overwhelmingly for it.The people who chose not to vote do not enter the equation.

[MaxLee]

2 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

General Elections are expected to take place in 2017  !

I remember reading a book about this,  Great Expectations  !

 

Haha,.... just kidding,.... wanna bet?

[Peterw42]

Does it Matter ???

 

I dont know if anyone has noticed, but even under a military Government, schools, hospitals, expressways, shopping malls are still open and new ones are being built. Thailand still makes and grows things, rice, shoes, hardrives, ball bearings, washing machines, and still exports to the rest of the world. The common law legal system still exists and is functioning.  And the police still look after law and order. 

 

Countries can exists and even thrive without much of a government. 

 

Look at Italy as a country. They have porn stars and formula one drivers for politicians , and the gov changes every 6 months. And they are a G7 nation.

 

I think the western ideal of a democracy, or the illusion of a democracy, is a nice fuzzy feeling of "you do have a say in things"

 

So long as basic services are provided, infrastucture gets built, law and order prevales, and people can find a job or make a business.

 

A couple of years from now, things will be pretty similar. The word military will be missing in reference to the Government.

 

 

[williamgeorgeallen]

we can only guess if these figures were true or made up. i am staying in esan and my girl voted for the referendum to pass. i tried to ask her why and she said because that was what everyone else was voting for. i was surprised about that as i am sure we are in the heart of red shirt country. with 20 referendums in the last 80 years it is hard to say if this one will achieve anything different, certainly looks like the army is going to be in control for a while to come, even if it is behind the scenes. hope they can bring in some more foreign investment incentives. 78% reduction last year and 80% reduction so far this year must have someone worried.

[Brer Fox]

5 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

Prior to the voting there was no discussion of the charter,      the only comments permitted came from official sources.

It was a crime to criticize the proposals and to spread lies,    distorted facts,  misrepresentations etc the definition of which lay with the junta.  Thousands of military cadets were sent out to spread the word to vote and who knows what else they may have said.

 

Now some of the laws can easily be amended by changing a few words so expect an official announcement that it's against the law to discuss or criticize the result and no doubt the biggest No No will be to suggest the final tally was anything less than accurate.

The proposals were  '  passed  '  and every opportunity will be taken to remind the country of it.

Take out the obligatory YES votes of the army, politicians, police, the civil servants and the many obliged city slickers votes and what would be left of the total YES count??

[Winniedapu]

20 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

The usual flow of money from outside the country didn't arrive,so the mercenaries stayed home.No money,no support. 

 

 

Any evidence for this?

 

Nah...

 

Winnie

[Eric Loh]

8 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

There's no point comparing a referendum turnout to an election turnout. Apples and oranges.

 

Winnie

 

Totally agree with you. Never aimed to make the comparison in my original post. Should see and interpret the referendum turnout result on its own. All said, the approval is not unanimous and the general should not get carried away and should now try to get everyone aboard and be inclusive on his reform plan. The election bit was a reply to Greasyfinger.   

[louse1953]

35 minutes ago, mesterm said:

Now that the Thai people have decided they want a military government for the next few years, I guess all us farangs online should just shut up?

Not me,i have been pro coup right from the start and said this would be a 5 year process to clean up the last 80 odd years.What was happening in Bangkok and other places had to stop,one way or the other.The two sides were incapable of acting like adults so they got the other.

[NongKhaiKid]

3 minutes ago, Brer Fox said:

Take out the obligatory YES votes of the army, politicians, police, the civil servants and the many obliged city slickers votes and what would be left of the total YES count??

Still more than enough to carry the day perhaps  ?      

[Winniedapu]

6 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

we can only guess if these figures were true or made up. i am staying in esan and my girl voted for the referendum to pass. i tried to ask her why and she said because that was what everyone else was voting for. i was surprised about that as i am sure we are in the heart of red shirt country. with 20 referendums in the last 80 years it is hard to say if this one will achieve anything different, certainly looks like the army is going to be in control for a while to come, even if it is behind the scenes. hope they can bring in some more foreign investment incentives. 78% reduction last year and 80% reduction so far this year must have someone worried.

 

The italicised/bold was mine for ease of reference, I wasn't editing your comment.

 

The comment does illustrate the Thai hive mind quite well. Social interaction/acceptance/compliance is a fundamental need.

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[NCC1701A]

So submarines for sure now, right?

[Toknarok]

    It's always refreshing to read a viewpoint from outside of Thailand. They often tend to look at the whole scene without the jaundiced eye that many TVF members have or the 'official' line from the powers that be. Here's a viewpoint from today's Nikkei Review...,.,http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy/Policy-Politics/Duncan-McCargo-Thailand-s-ambiguous-referendum-result?page=2

[williamgeorgeallen]

2 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

Not me,i have been pro coup right from the start and said this would be a 5 year process to clean up the last 80 odd years.What was happening in Bangkok and other places had to stop,one way or the other.The two sides were incapable of acting like adults so they got the other.

not so many pro army poster left on here. in the 2 years the army has been in power have the actually achieved anything? i am not anti army as such but it seems they are driving away foreign investment and it is going directly to vietnam. there is an impending disaster looming in the manufacturing sector which makes up a large proportion of GDP. manufacturing is far more important than tourism, which also seems to be in trouble.

[seajae]

the referendum has been out there for people to read for a while now, this means that if people wanted to know what it said they could see for themselves and make up their own minds. A big problem in Thailand is apathy, some people just dont care or simply follow what ever they are told but here if the people wanted to know what it was about they were able to do so. From what I have heard from family and friends the biggest thing for them was the fact this may well stop a lot of the corruption and stop politicians from lining the pockets of themselves as well as family and friends. Of course the reds voted no because they were told to do so by their leaders, nothing new but the greater majority of voters went with the yes vote. This is the vote of the thai people, like it or not we have to,accept it, making up excuses is just that, making them up,  as the only ones that know why they voted the way they did are the thai people, the decision has been made so all we can do is sit back and see what happens.

[mike324]

5 minutes ago, williamgeorgeallen said:

not so many pro army poster left on here. in the 2 years the army has been in power have the actually achieved anything? i am not anti army as such but it seems they are driving away foreign investment and it is going directly to vietnam. there is an impending disaster looming in the manufacturing sector which makes up a large proportion of GDP. manufacturing is far more important than tourism, which also seems to be in trouble.

 

I am in the manufacturing sector....would like to point out foreign investments are down and moving away mainly due to the lower labor costs in Vietnam/Cambodia, second because the world economy is very very bad so many are taking the wait and see approach. To add to that the government has been giving more incentives to promote the high tech sector. As you can see, the ones that shift to Vietnam / Cambodia are still in the labor intensive industry. Thailand needs to move towards a high tech sector due to its shortage of labors as well. The army running the country has had a small impact on foreign investment.

 

Its also not just foreign investment, the locals businesses are having a hard time as well.

[tbthailand]

4 hours ago, ramrod711 said:

The funniest thing about this is that "the junta fan boys" are the Thai people, and the Shin fan boys are pretenders.

The funny thing is that the junta fan-boys are delusional. 

[tbthailand]

21 minutes ago, seajae said:

the referendum has been out there for people to read for a while now, this means that if people wanted to know what it said they could see for themselves and make up their own minds. A big problem in Thailand is apathy, some people just dont care or simply follow what ever they are told but here if the people wanted to know what it was about they were able to do so. From what I have heard from family and friends the biggest thing for them was the fact this may well stop a lot of the corruption and stop politicians from lining the pockets of themselves as well as family and friends. Of course the reds voted no because they were told to do so by their leaders, nothing new but the greater majority of voters went with the yes vote. This is the vote of the thai people, like it or not we have to,accept it, making up excuses is just that, making them up,  as the only ones that know why they voted the way they did are the thai people, the decision has been made so all we can do is sit back and see what happens.

so the "red no" vote was because they were told to do so, ... and 

the "yes" vote was the vote of the Thai people.

 

Got it... 

[louse1953]

49 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Not relevant - you're comparing apples and oranges. This was a referendum not an election. 

 

The percentage of eligible voters supporting the draft constitution was 33%. Not an accolade for Mr Prayuth by any stretch of the imagination.

Yes,but every registered voter had the chance to vote.Not using their chance to vote makes them irrelevant.Isn't this how the USA works.Every vote counts,but you have to be at least interested to get to the polling station to cast you preference.I think the percentages of people that actually voted would equal most in the world,just showing the disdain for politicians throughout the world.I come from a country that is mostly democratic and we all have to enter the polling station and get our name ticked off the electoral roll or their will be fines applied.

[louse1953]

52 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

Oddly, since the balances of power mandated in the new constitution are so heavily stacked against the idea of an elected government being allowed to be effective, I  suspect the result from Sunday has made violent conflict in Thailand almost inevitable now, since it will prove impossible for any peace-time government to amend the constitution, which is what was intended.

 

This is what Thaksin gets for playing by the rules against a power bloc that feels no such need. Whether or not he intended it, I think Thaksin is now almost irrelevant. Perhaps he ran out of puff or conviction, or perhaps he just got old and stopped giving a damn, which would be understandable. I think Thailand must await the rise of a new leader for the nation's heartland.

 

The fat lady is singing.

 

Winnie

"This is what Thaksin gets for playing by the rules "

5555,best laugh of the morning,like your humour W.

[spidermike007]

It is quite obvious most Thai people did not have a clear understanding of what this Charter vote meant, the extraordinary and increased powers it bestowed upon the little man, and his incompetent government, and the way it postponed the possibility of any sort of democracy for years to come, with the ability of the army appointed senators to select the next PM. Thailand finds itself at a very difficult stage, and the economy will continue to decline no doubt, as a result of this vote. 

 

Having said that, was there a reasonable alternative? Is there anything even remotely resembling a competent leader, with the people's interest at heart, anywhere in the country right now? When will this person magically appear? What does the future hold for this place? I fear it will not be as bright a future as it could have been. Granted, the country was already into a precipitous slide, long before the little man took over. I predict that within 15 years, Thailand will be #6 within ASEAN, economically, behind the Philippines, Malaysia, Vietnam and Burma. And as far as tourism goes, it will continue to drop, revenue wise, while the Tourism Minister continues to brag about all of the Chinese tourists, who are spending very little money here. And the sad part, is that millions of jobs will be lost in the process. 

[louse1953]

51 minutes ago, Winniedapu said:

 

 

Any evidence for this?

 

Nah...

 

Winnie

It's TVF Winnie,no evidence needed.But i didn't see the usual flow of money around the village to influence the vote.

[sead]

They will understand in near future what the referendum actually is about. But if you dont care about your country this is what you will get. A somebody who is using some quick manoeuvers to a nation that are lazy, non interested, labil and with a mentality that it will all be ok in the end. Until it awakens. But it is the peoples choice. And i cant do anything to change that. But i can choose if i want to invest or buy condos/apartments/houses etc. And if i want to vacate in this country or not. Many of my plans i have in this country are on hold because i want to see where it all is going.

[Winniedapu]

1 hour ago, louse1953 said:

And yet the majority of people who voted for a Prayuth inspired charter voted overwhelmingly for it.The people who chose not to vote do not enter the equation.

 

 

What? That doesn't even make sense... at least I can't make head or tail of it without making assumptions about what you were tying to say, and I prefer not to do that.

 

Winnie

Edited August 8, 2016 by Winniedapu

[Winniedapu]

2 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

It's TVF Winnie,no evidence needed.But i didn't see the usual flow of money around the village to influence the vote.

 

 

So when did you see the flow of money?  My experience as a foreigner in Thailand is that Thais do not let foreigners into their confidence, while trying to create the impression that they do.

 

Winnie

[Berty100]

3 hours ago, NongKhaiKid said:

In a BBC report Jonathan Head described how discussion etc had been banned and many Thais didn't understand the details of the new charter.   

 

 

Sounds like this is the UK, where the majority didn't understand the details and consequences of the Brexit referendum, however there was discussion allowed there.

 

But honestly, even in "civilized" countries most of the voters will not understand the details if a new charter needed to be voted on. What they understand is what the side they want to listen to tells them.

[Winniedapu]

7 minutes ago, louse1953 said:

It's TVF Winnie,no evidence needed.But i didn't see the usual flow of money around the village to influence the vote.

 

 

So on TVF, fiction and fantasy rule?

 

Seriously?

 

 

[xineohp]

In the predominantly agricultural north and northeast, most folk have been busy in their fields for the last few months and have had little time to either see, read or absorb news about the referendum.  Call it apathy or disinterest but these very same folk are more interested in putting food on the table for their families than being interested in the antics going on in Bangkok.  Regrettably, the administration, army and elite are all too aware of this and continually use it to their advantage.  Interesting to note the French Revolution came about in just similar circumstances.