Minimum age for head in Blue Book

[offset]

My son is ages 7 and as land in his name at the moment his mother is the first name in the Blue Book for the house on the land but she has disappeared and I have 100% rights over my son. The main problem is that if I need to do something that requires a copy of the blue book signed I cannot do it (I have the blue book) the Ampher told me they did not know the minimum age for the head of the blue book but I think they just did not want to get involved I was hoping that somebody else might of had the same problem. If I could get the first name sorted I could use the blue book with either my son signing or myself signing on his behalf 

 

[Crossy]

The blue book is nothing to do with ownership, it only indicates who lives at the address.

 

The name on the Chanote at the land office is what matters, is that your son?

 

[offset]

Yes he as the name on the Chanote but that is not the problem the problem I have is if I need to do something that needs a signed copy of the blue book I cannot give them one

 

I need to change the address on my Driving licence but they need a copy of the Blue Book signed by the head on the blue book which I cannot do

 

 

[Langsuan Man]

You change the address on your DL using a Residency Certificate issued either by your Embassy (expensive) or by your local Immigration Office (cheap)

 

As Crossy stated,  has nothing to do with the Blue Book;  a farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property

 

If it were me, I would be getting a Yellow Book, since with a Thai son,  there are going to be many situations in the future where you could use it as opposed to most of us expats who only need to prove our residency on very few occasions  

Edited August 14, 2016 by Langsuan Man
spelling

[Morakot]

2 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

If it were me, I would be getting a Yellow Book

 

Yes that would be the obvious course of action, for the driving licence issue! He should ask the person who is named head in the Blue Book to sign the relevant documentation to get him onto his own YB.

 

I suspect, it's not possible for a minor to be named in the Blue Book as Head of Household. There are circumstances where there is no name in the BB. In that case it would very difficult to get a Yellow Book.
 

Edited August 14, 2016 by Morakot

[Morakot]

On 13/08/2016 at 5:19 PM, Crossy said:

The blue book is nothing to do with ownership, it only indicates who lives at the address.

 

 

Crossy, kindly at your discretion, this might be better in this forum: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/forum/96-family-and-children/ The OP might not be able to rely on the person named in the Blue Book to get a Yellow Book.

 

The specific legal aspect: as to what is the minimum age of being a named in head in the Blue Ta Bien Baan?

Edited August 14, 2016 by Morakot

[offset]

13 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

You change the address on your DL using a Residency Certificate issued either by your Embassy (expensive) or by your local Immigration Office (cheap)

 

As Crossy stated,  has nothing to do with the Blue Book;  a farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property

 

If it were me, I would be getting a Yellow Book, since with a Thai son,  there are going to be many situations in the future where you could use it as opposed to most of us expats who only need to prove our residency on very few occasions  

 

I stated that I do not know where the head of the blue book is and if I remember correctly to get a Residency Certificate you need a copy of the blue book signed by the head of the blue book, I guess that to get a Yellow Book I would need the head of the Blue book to sign for that too

 

There are only 2 names in the BB. the head of the book and my Son's name, so the only option I seem to have is to get the head removed and my son to become head then because I have 100 rights over my son I could sign for the blue book

[MikeyIdea]

15 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

You change the address on your DL using a Residency Certificate issued either by your Embassy (expensive) or by your local Immigration Office (cheap)

 

As Crossy stated,  has nothing to do with the Blue Book;  a farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property

 

If it were me, I would be getting a Yellow Book, since with a Thai son,  there are going to be many situations in the future where you could use it as opposed to most of us expats who only need to prove our residency on very few occasions  

 

I have done this, my underage daughter owns the land and I am Chao baan

 

Crossy: " farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property"

That is incorrect. A farang can be in the blue book if he is a permanent resident. I am Chao baan in my blue book

 

Offset:

It is not who is first in the blue book that matters, it is who is "Chao Baan" = head of the house hold, the others are "Poo asai" = living there. Chao baan is normally the first name but it doesn't have to be that

 

Chao baan can be either in the blue or the yellow book

 

Chai Baan must have reached majority (20 years old in Thailand) and there is no way that an Amphur supervisor would not know that. They only said "don't know" because they wanted to stop the discussion

 

The current Chao Baan must agree but if you can get her to do that, then do this

1) Get her to agree to issue a Yellow tabien baan (Tor Ror 13) and put you in it

Then you can sign tabien baan for yourself

2) Get her to agree to make you chao baan in the yellow tabien baan

Then you can sign tabien baan for your son too

 

Pay her if you have to. She will have to come to Amphur, no other way

 

"I have 100% rights over my son" Sorry but that doesn't matter. Everything regarding the house is done at Amphur and Chao baan rules there, everything regarding the land is done at the land office and the land owner (or legal guardian(s)) rules there

 

What do you mean with "I have 100% rights over my son"? Sole custody by court order? You cannot get Chao baan removed, but I was just thinking if Juvenile Court can. Probably not actually but they could very well be interested in helping you to persuade the mother if it is in the best interest of the child

 

 

Edited August 15, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[scorecard]

18 hours ago, Langsuan Man said:

You change the address on your DL using a Residency Certificate issued either by your Embassy (expensive) or by your local Immigration Office (cheap)

 

As Crossy stated,  has nothing to do with the Blue Book;  a farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property

 

If it were me, I would be getting a Yellow Book, since with a Thai son,  there are going to be many situations in the future where you could use it as opposed to most of us expats who only need to prove our residency on very few occasions  

 

- comment already made.

Edited August 15, 2016 by scorecard

[MikeyIdea]

One correction to my above post

 

"Everything regarding the house is done at Amphur and Chao baan rules there"

When it comes to the house register (who lives at the address), Chao baan rules. When it comes to the actual house, then the person with "gammasitt baan" (roughly translated house ownership) rules. I think that generally is the one whose name is in the building permit  - I cannot see that would be important unless the current Chao baan decides to leave without transferring to anyone else = need gammasitt baan to be able to get a Chao baan in again

[SOTIRIOS]

...if the government branches will not help you ....who will....

[bark]

Glad that I rent my house, and did not buy one. Seems, many many problems.

Noisy neighbors, I move.

Too many Soi Dogs, I move.

Build another temple near me, I move.

The hot Thai girl next to me, get married, I move.

Very simple and better to rent.

[bark]

Glad that I rent my house, and did not buy one. Seems, many many problems.

Noisy neighbors, I move.

Too many Soi Dogs, I move.

Build another temple near me, I move.

The hot Thai girl next to me, get married, I move.

Very simple and better to rent.

[offset]

5 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

I have done this, my underage daughter owns the land and I am Chao baan

 

Crossy: " farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property"

That is incorrect. A farang can be in the blue book if he is a permanent resident. I am Chao baan in my blue book

 

Offset:

It is not who is first in the blue book that matters, it is who is "Chao Baan" = head of the house hold, the others are "Poo asai" = living there. Chao baan is normally the first name but it doesn't have to be that

 

Chao baan can be either in the blue or the yellow book

 

Chai Baan must have reached majority (20 years old in Thailand) and there is no way that an Amphur supervisor would not know that. They only said "don't know" because they wanted to stop the discussion

 

The current Chao Baan must agree but if you can get her to do that, then do this

1) Get her to agree to issue a Yellow tabien baan (Tor Ror 13) and put you in it

Then you can sign tabien baan for yourself

2) Get her to agree to make you chao baan in the yellow tabien baan

Then you can sign tabien baan for your son too

 

Pay her if you have to. She will have to come to Amphur, no other way

 

"I have 100% rights over my son" Sorry but that doesn't matter. Everything regarding the house is done at Amphur and Chao baan rules there, everything regarding the land is done at the land office and the land owner (or legal guardian(s)) rules there

 

What do you mean with "I have 100% rights over my son"? Sole custody by court order? You cannot get Chao baan removed, but I was just thinking if Juvenile Court can. Probably not actually but they could very well be interested in helping you to persuade the mother if it is in the best interest of the child

 

 

 

Yes i have a court order giving me sole custody over my son

[Morakot]

9 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

Chai Baan must have reached majority (20 years old in Thailand) and there is no way that an Amphur supervisor would not know that. They only said "don't know" because they wanted to stop the discussion

 

Thanks Milke for your useful post. On the issue above, I have reservations though.

 

It could well be the case that they don't really know. It's not clear so ever, I think.

 

Under Thai law, I person is not a minor any more if he or she married (registered at the Amphur). So that means 18-year old person can be a "person of age". In fact, if a person has parental permission or court approval, he or she could be married at age of 15, and henceforth would under Thai law be a "person of age".

 

It's precisely because the OP's child seem to have parental permission to be Jao Baan that does not make this clear cut.

 

Either way, seven years of age, I am quite certain is not sufficient for this. The OP should get the mother to agree to get him a Yellow Book and be named Jao Baan himself there.

Edited August 15, 2016 by Morakot

[Liquorice]

Under Thai law you cannot register a marriage until 18 years old, with parents consent, otherwise it's 20.

Village marriages may occur with parents consent at the age of 15, but they are not legally recognised.

 

In the OP's position, I would do 3 things;

1. Visit the local Police Station and make a report of a missing person (wife).

2. Go visit the Phoo Yai Baan (Head of Village) and get him onside.

3. Visit the Amphur, along with the son, phoo yai baan, and the Police report, to explain the situation and see what can be achieved.

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

11 hours ago, Morakot said:

 

Thanks Milke for your useful post. On the issue above, I have reservations though.

 

It could well be the case that they don't really know. It's not clear so ever, I think.

 

Under Thai law, I person is not a minor any more if he or she married (registered at the Amphur). So that means 18-year old person can be a "person of age". In fact, if a person has parental permission or court approval, he or she could be married at age of 15, and henceforth would under Thai law be a "person of age".

 

It's precisely because the OP's child seem to have parental permission to be Jao Baan that does not make this clear cut.

 

Either way, seven years of age, I am quite certain is not sufficient for this. The OP should get the mother to agree to get him a Yellow Book and be named Jao Baan himself there.

 

You are abosolutely correct  Thai law acknowledge that you are of age when you marry

 

17 by permission of parents (does happen) and 15 by court order (will never happen)

[jphasia]

On August 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, MikeyIdea said:

 

Chai Baan must have reached majority (20 years old in Thailand) and there is no way that an Amphur supervisor would not know that. They only said "don't know" because they wanted to stop the discussion

I am bit confused. My Son is "Chai Baan" and he is only 17 years. he was already at 16. 

On August 15, 2016 at 11:52 AM, MikeyIdea said:

 

 

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

OP, I think you have a really tricky situation here

 

The mother is really gone, so much gone that Juvenile court had no problems giving you sole custody Your son is in a blue tabien baan where Chao baan probably never ever will be available. This is not only going to be an irritating problem for the next 17 years but also after that too

 

If you speak some Thai, then go down to amphur at 8:15 in the morning and ask for the supervisor, show the court order first of all, then the blue tabien baan and ask for options when Chao baan has disappeared. If none, also ask openly if Juvenile court can order

 

 

[MikeyIdea]

Chao baan has the right to kick people out of the National population register (Tabien Raat in Thai). That would even affect an adults possibility to vote. You are not allowed to give responsibilities to minors in Thailand. It's the same almost everywhere actually

 

A minor is not allowed to sign for himself in Thailand, a legal guardian must do that for him until he reaches majority.  That is also the same almost everywhere actually

 

It really should not be possible by law

Edited August 16, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Delight]

On 14/08/2016 at 8:37 PM, Langsuan Man said:

 

As Crossy stated,  has nothing to do with the Blue Book;  a farang cannot be in a Blue Blue Book no matter who owns the property

 

 

 

 I am a Farang and my name is in my Blue book-in fact the only name.in my house book

Admittedly on the inside cover -not on the main pages

[straylight]

I also am the only name in my blue book as a PR.

[Liquorice]

2 hours ago, MikeyIdea said:

 

You are abosolutely correct  Thai law acknowledge that you are of age when you marry

 

17 by permission of parents (does happen) and 15 by court order (will never happen)

 

Under Marriage laws of Thailand, and I quote;

Chapter II: Conditions of Marriage

Section 1448. A marriage can occur only when the man and woman have finished their seventeenth year of age. But the Court may, in case of having appropriate reason, permit them to marry before attaining such age.

 

When I finished my 17th year, I became 18, which is what I said in an early post, unless you get a Court Order.

 

[MikeyIdea]

There is an addendum to section 1448 that I read many years ago, it does say that parents can give permission to marry at 17

 

Another interesting very Thai thing: In civil matters, your age is counted at the start of the year, in criminal matters, on the exact date you were born. If you are summoned to a civil court and a criminal court on the same day, they you are legally 18 in on one of them and legally 17 in the other. I wonder what the common sense of that is  

Edited August 16, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[Liquorice]

27 minutes ago, MikeyIdea said:

There is an addendum to section 1448 that I read many years ago, it does say that parents can give permission to marry at 17

 

Another interesting very Thai thing: In civil matters, your age is counted at the start of the year, in criminal matters, on the exact date you were born. If you are summoned to a civil court and a criminal court on the same day, they you are legally 18 in on one of them and legally 17 in the other. I wonder what the common sense of that is  

 

It's called 'age reckoning' and is a concept and practice that started in China.

 

Many impoverished parents in China were unable to both work until the child started school at 6.

Village births were rarely registered.

Women came up with the concept that having carried the fetus for 9 months the child was almost 1 when born.

That meant they could actually claim the child was 6 (when he was actually 5) and therefore start school early.

Both parents could then work full time to better the family's finances.

 

It can have it's advantages and disadvantages as a friend of mine can testify.

[Liquorice]

1 hour ago, straylight said:

I also am the only name in my blue book as a PR.

 

If you are, someone made an error!

 

Foreigners cannot be named in a blue book unless they are married to a Thai and have PR status.

Condo owners are issued a blue book upon purchase, but they cannot be named in the book, it's left blank.

Foreigners can only be solely named in a Yellow book.

[Sydebolle]

1) a non-Thai can be very well registered on a blue house registration book (ทะเบียนบ้าน) provided the non-Thai is a permanent resident 
2) a minor can own land and be registered as land owner on a land title deed (โฉนดที่ดิน) but as the child is not of legal age (yet) the custodian executes the minor's rights according to the Thai civil law. Despite having a non-Thai custodian the authorities will most likely want to see the Thai parent's consent unless you get the proper paper work by the Ministry of Interior in Thai done.
3) for any non-Thai documentation of residence the easiest is indeed as suggested
3.1) either get yourself a yellow house book (ทะเบียนบ้านสีเหลือง) for the local municipality office (อำเภอ) or alternatively from the immigration office dealing with your visa matters.  

[MikeyIdea]

16 hours ago, Faz said:

 

If you are, someone made an error!

 

Foreigners cannot be named in a blue book unless they are married to a Thai and have PR status.

Condo owners are issued a blue book upon purchase, but they cannot be named in the book, it's left blank.

Foreigners can only be solely named in a Yellow book.

 

You do not have to be married, requirement is that you must have PR only

 

We can also see it the opposite way. One of the pre-requisites to complete your PR process is that you can get your name into any blue book, if you can't then your PR becomes void

[Delight]

16 hours ago, Faz said:

 

If you are, someone made an error!

 

Foreigners cannot be named in a blue book unless they are married to a Thai and have PR status.

 Not True

 

I am a Farang without PR and have my name in my blue book

 

My name was entered in the blue book -prior to marriage

 

As a matter of fact today I applied for my visa extension.

Part of the process demands that I prove where I live 

 

My blue book worked fine.

 

[offset]

Thank you everybody for you advice I think the only thing I can do is try to get a Certificate of Residency when I Need a prove of address,