Retiring with 16mn Baht

[Scotwight]

3 hours ago, chiang mai said:

An usufruct is enshrined in Thai law and is proven, AS LONG AS people follow the rules.

 

An usufruct gives the holder the right to live in a property and to determine who else does and/or does not, it can be valid for life or for a specific term. It also gives the holder the right to enter into a lease with a third party which remains valid for up to thirty years AND beyond the death of the usufruct holder.

 

But an usufruct between husband and wife can be made invalid at divorce, an usufruct that is free of any payments to the landowner is also deemed unsafe hence, monthly or annual payments are advised. 

The Usufruct in Thailand - poisoned fruit of the forbidden tree   You can google it.  

 

[4MyEgo]

5 minutes ago, Craig krup said:

 

It just so isn't. Even senior and junior debt - much safer than shares - is way too much risk for most investors: witness what's happening in Italy right now. 

 

You can get 4.4-5% in diversified UK investments. Mad to do anything else. 

 

Each to their own, just for the record, Italian banks from my research don't have the same regulatory restrictions that APRA (government body) applies to Australian banks, my argument is that if you cannot get a decent return from a bank, in Australia currently 5.6% fully franked (net) or about 7.5% not franked then you are history.

 

This is above the diversified UK investments you are quoting.

 

My research on Aussie banks goes back at least 20 years, and yes I know that in America some 465 banks closed from the 2008 GFC to 2012, having said that, Aussie banks are solid, if your looking for capital gain, well they are at their peak, however the dividends being paid are still up their, like I said, 5.6% in the pocket, after tax, hard to beat, sure they will decline in value over the next few years, this is normal as they rose from the 2008 GFC melt down back up to 2013 to recover, and moving up from there.

 

Diversified funds are definitely the way to go, with a good mix of banking stocks for the dividends, like I said, I am not really bothered about the capital gain in the short term, next 5 - 10 years, so it suites me.

[4MyEgo]

26 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

1.  2012 Thai banks were paying around 3% interest on CDs if memory serves me right.  2.  2012 to 2016 the Aussie dollar lost about 20% vs Thai baht.  3.  Your free agency actually does charge you money (some one else can explain it to you).  At this particular time it would have made sense to put your money in Thai bank CDs  Deposit insurance questions
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/865382-bank-deposit-insurance-reduction-in-2016/

All of this really makes little difference.  Some patient person should tell you the reason why people who retire to Thailand move money here.  My reasons are common but personal.  

 

My point was that you can take money out if you bring it so little risk as far as I'm concerned.  I wouldn't trust anything Dr D said because he lacked even the basic knowledge of Thai banking practices.  Advice is worth what you pay for it.  Me included. Do your own due diligence.  
 

 

I provided you with all the information, and you replied with:

 

1. Thai banks were paying 3% vs my analysis of 6.2% in an Aussie bank. 

 

2. Yes I agreed that the Aussie dollar went south losing about 20% to the latter part of 2014

 

3. The agency doesn't charge me money, if you send less than $1,000 AUS they charge you like 35 baht

 

Not looking to win any argument, like I said you would have been better of with about 450,000 baht in an Aussie term deposit account for 3 years.

 

Why people who retire in Thailand bring their money here is of no interest to me, as much as me leaving my money in Australia is to them, I seek out the best returns where possible, the tax laws on the money, and shares, so far I am earning 5.6% on bank shares net, you cannot argue that it is not a good return, yes shares go up and down, we are all aware of that, and I am earning 2.5% & 2.6% on term deposits which are fixed till July next year.

 

The fact that I only pay 10% tax on interest earned in Australia, and no tax on the shares because they are fully franked, e.g. the bank pays the tax and delivers me the balance, which is equivalent to 5.6% and I am not subject to any capital gains tax on any gains, sounds like I am sitting pretty good.

 

If you want to park your $'s in a Thai bank, that's your prerogative, I don't have an issue with that and you obviously have your reasons for doing so, if it works for you and your making the most of it Vs back in your country, your plan is working for you.

 

Lets just say, we agree to disagree and wish the best of luck

[chiang mai]

35 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Read the above Thai Visa article for the part of Thailand you apparently are not familiar with.  

 

Nonsense, I think you and I are and done debating any subject. Out.

[Craig krup]

1 hour ago, 4MyEgo said:

 

...Aussie banks are solid

 

Banks lend money into existence. They have little capital, some junior debt, a smidgen of senior debt and a load of hope. The central bank undertakes to make them liquid in the event of a "run", but if it's a solvency problem they go bust. Iceland, anyone. 

 

In a resource economy with loads of lending to miners who'll never get another job I'd have a few concerns, personally. 

 

Permanent Interest Bearing Shares in UK building societies were paying 10% recently, and people couldn't believe there might be a problem. A few "haircuts" and some compulsory re-purchases at par value (IIRC) taught a lot of people a valuable lesson. 

[derator01]

Several off topic posts have been removed from view.  Please stick to the original post. 

 

There was some great information here.  Why not start a thread in the Home Country forum??

[Craig krup]

Dunedin Income Growth (old boiler of a British investment trust) gave me £1500 this morning. It'll do it again in three months. That's 22,500 baht a month. Now the baht could rise against the pound, shares could collapse in price (Dunedin was at 190p in February as opposed to 244p right now), dividends could get cut, anything could happen. But the fact is that over the long run FTSE 100 companies will probably raise their dividends, those dividends (earned in sterling, dollars and everything else) will probably be worth the present rate against the baht, or better, the UK will probably be a safer regulatory and legal environment than Thailand....and so on. 

 

I wouldn't hold assets in Thailand, I wouldn't rely on bank interest, I wouldn't obsess about currency risk to the exclusion of bigger issues, I wouldn't hold single non-diversified investments (shares or bonds) and I wouldn't touch the "alternative investments" much beloved of the web's conspiracy theorists. 

 

Quarterly divis from bog standard investment trusts. You know it makes sense. 

[bow]

On August 20, 2016 at 10:18 PM, Craig krup said:

 

I've never, ever understood people allowing stockbrokers to buy and sell investments using your money. A colleague of mine lost £150,000 in 2007-8 when her portfolio - picked by a regional stockbrokers and stuffed full of bank shares - went pop. If stockbrokers could outperform the market they'd be sitting in a Mayfair office earning a hundred times what they are earning. "Allow us to play with your money, because we know more than the world and you'll be able to keep the gains". Yeah. You'll over-trade and clock up all you can in fees and soft commissions. 

 

This bloke has £350,000 (if he was a Brit). City of London investment trust yields just over 4%, as does Murray International. Invested in these two he'd get about £15,000 a year split in eight payments. This (at the moment) is 675,000 baht, or 56,000 baht a month. Share prices could collapse, the baht could soar against the pound, the sky could fall down....People don't like volatility. But aiming into an indefinite future (and in the absence of serious health problems) I'd be pretty confident that £15,000 a year in 2016 in investments that track the whole of the world would probably keep body and soul together in Thailand, and over a thirty year time frame I'd be pretty confident that the capital value would be preserved or grow. The biggest risk is not taking a risk. Sit in cash and run it down and you're definitely doomed. You need to have the cash sitting ready for a meltdown - which happens with monotonous regularity - and then you buy, and buy and buy and make huge losses day after day. Then you hold for ever and retire rich

 

All the clowns who told you to buy when the market was roaring ahead, and told you that you were a fool when you bought during the meltdown, they......well, they get to work for ever. 

 

56 000 baht/month ! That is an enormous amount of money in my world. After rent i spend about 250 baht per day. I just don't need any more.  

 

Go for it !!! 

[sezze]

5 hours ago, bow said:

 

56 000 baht/month ! That is an enormous amount of money in my world. After rent i spend about 250 baht per day. I just don't need any more.  

 

Go for it !!! 

 

Purely based on this money , yes he can go , however he did not tell all the facts on what he wants to do , and how he sees his life and how many times he's been to Thailand etc etc . Yes , you can life easily on this money , but he has to remember , he does need to save a part of it , inflation you know . Also , if he want to party , money goes down the drain quickly . Also , being on a holiday is not the same as living there ( BY FAR THE MOST IMPORTANT ).

[Craig krup]

5 hours ago, bow said:

 

56 000 baht/month ! That is an enormous amount of money in my world. After rent i spend about 250 baht per day. I just don't need any more.  

 

Go for it !!! 

 

If someone said that you had to actually spend 800,000 a year - about 65,000 a month - and you didn't have a family to pay for, and weren't interested in shopping as a leisure activity, I shudder to think of what festival of depravity would be required to get through the money. 

[dick dasterdly]

On 8/25/2016 at 4:03 PM, chiang mai said:

 

 

12 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

If someone said that you had to actually spend 800,000 a year - about 65,000 a month - and you didn't have a family to pay for, and weren't interested in shopping as a leisure activity, I shudder to think of what festival of depravity would be required to get through the money. 

No "festival of depravity" required.

 

Some have very large, expensive houses that cost a fortune to maintain.  Others spend a lot of money on expensive foods/household items etc.

 

There is no 'one size fits all' - as we all have our own priorities and way of life.

[chiang mai]

On 25/08/2016 at 7:23 PM, Scotwight said:

The Usufruct in Thailand - poisoned fruit of the forbidden tree   You can google it.  

 

 

I did:

 

http://www.siam-legal.com/realestate/Usufructs.php

http://www.isaanlawyers.com/usufruct-agreement-thailand/

http://www.thailand-lawyer.com/usufruct.html

http://www.bangkokattorney.com/usufruct-in-thailand.html

http://www.sunbeltlegaladvisors.com/usufruct/

 

...and at a minimum, nobody even suggests that it's anything other than legal and useful.

[rogeroc]

12 hours ago, Craig krup said:

 

If someone said that you had to actually spend 800,000 a year - about 65,000 a month - and you didn't have a family to pay for, and weren't interested in shopping as a leisure activity, I shudder to think of what festival of depravity would be required to get through the money. 

 

That is a little over 2000 baht a day,  500 for accomodation, 150 breakfast, 100 for a couple of coffees, 150 for lunch, 200 for dinner and another 200 for a couple of beers. That only leaves 700 baht a day and we havent even thought of occasional leisure activity swimming, golf etc, transport even if just a scooter or bicycle, visa costs, occasional airfares etc. you could easily spend 65000 baht per month without an ounce of depravity.

 

I think the OP's friend could lead a reasonable life until he was 70 but if he lives beyond that and his only permanent income source is a 30000 baht UK state pension then he will have problems, technically he would probably not have enough to continue living in Thailand.

[bow]

6 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

No "festival of depravity" required.

 

Some have very large, expensive houses that cost a fortune to maintain.  Others spend a lot of money on expensive foods/household items etc.

 

There is no 'one size fits all' - as we all have our own priorities and way of life.

 

Yes, we all have our own priorities and way of life. 

 

I like to live a very simple life. I had a very simple, basic, lifestyle in Europe. I don't see why i should decend into a "festival of depravity" just because i  have moved to Thailand.

 

I will not share a detailed description of my daily life, but i can mention that for breakfast i usually have a cup of hot tea - sugar, no milk, and a carton of milk -16 baht. 

 

[bkk6060]

On 8/24/2016 at 2:43 PM, returnofthailand said:

again I live in a high rise building so no need of ac.
Tesco, big c, and shopping mall have food court.

I spend 9 to 10k a month with visa included and I live better than the average farangs here. well I m a smart guy people say . so it helps being smart.

 

 

guys who need more than 10k need a brain checkup. some guys can not live with less 100k. I wonder where all their money go. probably to gogo ladies, drug or dodgy business.
these guys are clowns. they don't make very long here in Thailand.

 

 

You lead a poor life my friend.  No aircon?  HAHA. You poor soul.  I spend 10k a month just on food.  Sorry you are very sad and poor.

Edited August 30, 2016 by bkk6060

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You lead a poor life my friend.  No aircon?  HAHA. You poor soul.  I spend 10k a month just on food.  Sorry you are very sad and poor.

10k a month?  Sure, it can be done.  But is he really counting all his expenses?  What is he leaving out?  Car or motorbike insurance?  Medical insurance?  Visa or extension costs?  Entertainment, GF, movie, park or show fees? Utilities? Wifi or TV/cable/satellite service?  100 baht a day only for food would be 3,000 baht a month or 1/3 of his supposed 9,000 baht total cost.  That is almost impossible, even if for just the 30 baht noodle soup at the 7-11 3 meals a day?  No falang food ever? 

[Craig krup]

On 8/30/2016 at 0:23 PM, bkk6060 said:

You lead a poor life my friend.  

 

Well, he's not spending much money. I've just uploaded a couple of Kindle books. Hundreds and hundreds of hours of work - not the greatest bit of scholarship, but not bad. Think about that word - life. What do you really want to say? Do you want to concede that every Saudi prince lives a better life than you - a better human existence - because they spend more money? What about Donald Trump? Has he lived a better human existence than you because he's blown through more money?

 

Dogs are quintessentially appetites, and humans are quintessentially minds. You can't nail a human life by blowing through money, and an awful lot of the "it's nice to be comfortable" expenditure actually is pernicious: you become soft, fat and dull because of it. The Stoics knew a thing or two. 

[Pdaz]

I did all my budget living in my late teens and early twenties. Backpacked around Oz and Asia. Then spent a couple of frugal years in Singapore doing contract work (before getting some promotion and a better salary). Shared apartment, only cheap local meals, Beer in Hawker centers, Jogging and Gym for relaxation, No car or bike and not much in the way of expensive nitelife. I had a great time and I look back on that time as some of my best years. However after 30 years of hard work and a lot of sacrifices the idea of existing on a tight budget until I die is not very attractive. Luckily I have made most of life's big purchases and believe I can live comfortably in retirement with with enough income to buy what I need and not feel I am just existing.  Yes I'm certain I could get by on 10K a Month if left with no choice. But I'd prefer to have a budget of 100K and then choose how much I spend of it. Surely that choice is the important part ? 

30 years is a long time to have to watch every penny and go without.  Sounds more like a punishment than retirement. 

 

[gk10002000]

On ‎8‎/‎29‎/‎2016 at 8:57 AM, Craig krup said:

 

If someone said that you had to actually spend 800,000 a year - about 65,000 a month - and you didn't have a family to pay for, and weren't interested in shopping as a leisure activity, I shudder to think of what festival of depravity would be required to get through the money. 

I note that historically when I went there on vacation, for 30 days, getting just a weekly rate in hotels since I would visit many places, I would spend on the average $1500 USD.  If I were to move there  full time, my health insurance would be cheaper, my hotel/condo/lodging would be cheaper since I would get at least a monthly rate.  My car/auto/bike insurance would be less.  On holiday I have a great time, single, not married, no children.  Some days I relax and do nothing, other days it is just the pool and a movie, several nights it is go go time, and a few hosts I have been known to bar fine and take out.  Foot massage or oil massage basically daily (can't refuse a 150 -200 baht foot massage).  So $2,000 USD a month would be doable and modest, but I wouldn't plan for any less than that.  Those falang meals or quality Thai meals can add up.  Balance that off against an occasional wok cooked meal at home.  I love the domocil in pattaya.

[returnofthailand]

if you dont drink and not smoke, have a nice room with fan and eat outside at market you can live very well with 10k bahts a month, I can even travel go nice 3 stars hotel and date many ladies, I m still at 13k a month average with my jet , so guys who spend 100k are drug addict or they are scamed somewhere, if I can do it why you can not do it? . it s not hard to be a smart guy like me. want foot massage for free? get a Thai girlfriend

[bkk6060]

21 hours ago, Pdaz said:

I did all my budget living in my late teens and early twenties. Backpacked around Oz and Asia. Then spent a couple of frugal years in Singapore doing contract work (before getting some promotion and a better salary). Shared apartment, only cheap local meals, Beer in Hawker centers, Jogging and Gym for relaxation, No car or bike and not much in the way of expensive nitelife. I had a great time and I look back on that time as some of my best years. However after 30 years of hard work and a lot of sacrifices the idea of existing on a tight budget until I die is not very attractive. Luckily I have made most of life's big purchases and believe I can live comfortably in retirement with with enough income to buy what I need and not feel I am just existing.  Yes I'm certain I could get by on 10K a Month if left with no choice. But I'd prefer to have a budget of 100K and then choose how much I spend of it. Surely that choice is the important part ? 

30 years is a long time to have to watch every penny and go without.  Sounds more like a punishment than retirement. 

 

Same here 30 years at a job.  That is pretty much mine also 100,000 b after USA taxes.  What a great life it is I have 2 aircons in my apt. and do anything, eat anything, live the life that I want. Thailand is great!

[sezze]

On 31-8-2016 at 8:02 PM, Pdaz said:

I did all my budget living in my late teens and early twenties. Backpacked around Oz and Asia. Then spent a couple of frugal years in Singapore doing contract work (before getting some promotion and a better salary). Shared apartment, only cheap local meals, Beer in Hawker centers, Jogging and Gym for relaxation, No car or bike and not much in the way of expensive nitelife. I had a great time and I look back on that time as some of my best years. However after 30 years of hard work and a lot of sacrifices the idea of existing on a tight budget until I die is not very attractive. Luckily I have made most of life's big purchases and believe I can live comfortably in retirement with with enough income to buy what I need and not feel I am just existing.  Yes I'm certain I could get by on 10K a Month if left with no choice. But I'd prefer to have a budget of 100K and then choose how much I spend of it. Surely that choice is the important part ? 

30 years is a long time to have to watch every penny and go without.  Sounds more like a punishment than retirement. 

 

 

Everybody likes 100k more then 10k , 1 million i like more then 100k also , that is not the point . You done it before , living on budget , so you said it and you lived through it more then ok OK i guess, since you are still here . That is the point , you can live with small money and still have a decent lifestyle , having food , a good roof over your head and some extras here and there , but not too much . Some people never need more .  Now imagine somewhere in the middle like this guy , around 50k a month . Should be more then enough since he can choose to live on budget a few months , thus saving money for a more expensive month later on .

Some rich people would say , you cannot live with 1 million baht a month , but it really is not a big effort untill you get to the basic basic expenses , which are food(+water )  , and a decent room to live in .

[Pdaz]

16 minutes ago, sezze said:

 

Everybody likes 100k more then 10k , 1 million i like more then 100k also , that is not the point . You done it before , living on budget , so you said it and you lived through it more then ok OK i guess, since you are still here . That is the point , you can live with small money and still have a decent lifestyle , having food , a good roof over your head and some extras here and there , but not too much . Some people never need more .  Now imagine somewhere in the middle like this guy , around 50k a month . Should be more then enough since he can choose to live on budget a few months , thus saving money for a more expensive month later on .

Some rich people would say , you cannot live with 1 million baht a month , but it really is not a big effort untill you get to the basic basic expenses , which are food(+water )  , and a decent room to live in .

 

Yes it is possible to live on a small budget and be happy. Millions of people in the World do it daily. 

I never said it wasn't. What I was saying is that I have lived on a small budget ( when I was young ) survived and enjoyed it. It was a necessity, I was saving and working hard to improve my prospects. I was also younger, single and had less responsibility. I was happy enough sharing a dorm or a small apartment. Now I am used to a certain level of comfort and wish to live out my days at that level. I don't wish to reduce my standard of living to far below what I have become accustomed to ( I could if there was some catastrophe ) So I have planned for retirement. Saved, invested and prepared. I think 100-150K a Month would suffice. I doubt I would spend that amount every Month but life is full of surprises and unplanned for expense. My historical monthly income was well in excess of this figure. Not everybody gets by on minimum wage or fails to save for later life. Likewise not everybody is a celebrity, CEO or a trust fund kid.

If someone has only 50k a Month to live on and are happy more power to them. I just expect a little more for all the effort I have put in to be comfortable.

 

Edited September 1, 2016 by Pdaz

[pigeonjake]

this is another thread that will turn into a pissing contest, i can live for this you cant afford my life styll,

but ive noticed its the newish members that make the most noise

 

enjoy your life no matter what you spend,

[55Jay]

19 hours ago, returnofthailand said:

if you dont drink and not smoke, have a nice room with fan and eat outside at market you can live very well with 10k bahts a month, I can even travel go nice 3 stars hotel and date many ladies, I m still at 13k a month average with my jet , so guys who spend 100k are drug addict or they are scamed somewhere, if I can do it why you can not do it? . it s not hard to be a smart guy like me. want foot massage for free? get a Thai girlfriend

You're not necessarily "smart", you're just living within your means.  That is "smart" behavior but it is such a basic concept in life, it's nothing to gloat about. 

 

Guys who spend 100k aren't drug addicts or being scammed.  That's a stupid thing to say and when you say it, you don't sound smart at all.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

It's better to have more money.

 

The amount of money you spend a month is absolutely no indication of the quality life you are leading.

 

Recent research suggests that most people are absolute morons when it comes to money management especially if they meet a lady of dubious work ethics. Some people will try very hard to convince me they live better spending 100k a month supporting wife and greedy family than me living on 15_20k... Yet here I am writing this post from Hilton executive lounge, sipping coffee and pigging out on cakes. Something I do quite often in Bangkok and me and my wife pocket around 80k in savings a month.

 

[Pdaz]

Yep. Currently sitting in a bar at Changi airport. Just finishing my forth 356 baht pint of Kilkenny.. Expensive and overpriced ? Yep. But I've been at work for  6 weeks without a drink and I can afford it. The idea of living a retirement where even the simple pleasure of an imported beer is a major financial decision is not attractive at all. Glad I saved my pennies

[Pdaz]

Funny thing is, all the proponents of the "10k a month wonderful life" would abandon it in a flash if they suddenly won the lotto... Or maybe they would just let the millions accumulate interest in the bank as they are happy enough ?

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pdaz
Forgot the question mark :(

[JB300]

Yep. Currently sitting in a bar at Changi airport. Just finishing my forth 356 baht pint of Kilkenny.. Expensive and overpriced ? Yep. But I've been at work for  6 weeks without a drink and I can afford it. The idea of living a retirement where even the simple pleasure of an imported beer is a major financial decision is not attractive at all. Glad I saved my pennies

Wow, is it on sale as I normally have to pay s$18 (approx 450THB) for a pint of Heineken!!!

[Pdaz]

Yeah.. Was surprised. Seemed pretty good value for Singas

 

5 bottles of Heineken in a bucket was 70 bucks Sing

Edited September 2, 2016 by Pdaz