Sleep your way to fat loss!

bamukloy · October 7, 2016

On Tuesday, August 23, 2016 at 0:08 PM, tropo said:

I would not trust surgery to solve the long term issues .

I know two people who had the older lap-band style surgery. Five years later they are as big as they ever were.

Doctors claimed:

-the surgery will make you loose your appetite (somewhat)

-you wont be (physically) capable of eating the way you used to.

These statements were proven to be 100% false in both those individual cases.

Of course, they ended up going back to bad old habits of comfort, junk food, huge portions.. no exercise.

I must admire Robblok and CC for telling it like it is and not trying on this wishywashy PC crap that its all genetics and its always something/someone elses fault.

What they are saying is 100% spot-on, as ive proven in my own battle.

Let the deniers argue that diet and fitness wont work on everyone.

We all know its just another cop-out excuse.

Sorry, but If it aint workin, you aint workin it hard enough

Yes, i did the YoYo thing, but having the willpower to change the bad lifestyle habits is the only way to go IMO.

Once you are there, it does get easier to maintain as there

are things you can do when you look like falling back into your danger zone.

One must have the self control to cut down on the bad stuff though...

Say goodbye to the cheese, salami, carbonated drinks, crisps, sour cream, butter, Timtams

Cut down the portions of rice, pasta, bread and choose lean meat.

Making your own food with minimum or no oil helps.

Adding a fitness workout or even just climbing stairs daily, absolutely is the key to helping maintain a good figure long term.

The best part: the exercise is the one thing that allows you to cheat occasionally.

tropo · October 7, 2016

4 minutes ago, bamukloy said:

I would not trust surgery to solve the long term issues .

I know two people who had the older lap-band style surgery. Five years later they are as big as they ever were.

Doctors claimed:

-the surgery will make you loose your appetite (somewhat)

-you wont be (physically) capable of eating the way you used to.

These statements were proven to be 100% false in both those individual cases.

Of course, they ended up going back to bad old habits of comfort, junk food, huge portions.. no exercise.

I must admire Robblok and CC for telling it like it is and not trying on this wishywashy PC crap that its all genetics and its always something/someone elses fault.

What they are saying is 100% spot-on, as ive proven in my own battle.

Let the deniers argue that diet and fitness wont work on everyone.

We all know its just another cop-out excuse.

Sorry, but If it aint workin, you aint workin it hard enough

Yes, i did the YoYo thing, but having the willpower to change the bad lifestyle habits is the only way to go IMO.

Once you are there, it does get easier to maintain as there

are things you can do when you look like falling back into your danger zone.

One must have the self control to cut down on the bad stuff though...

Say goodbye to the cheese, salami, carbonated drinks, crisps, sour cream, butter, Timtams

Cut down the portions of rice, pasta, bread and choose lean meat.

Making your own food with minimum or no oil helps.

Adding a fitness workout or even just climbing stairs daily, absolutely is the key to helping maintain a good figure long term.

The best part: the exercise is the one thing that allows you to cheat occasionally.

Amen to that last part. A lot of people may think it's dumb to eat something bad (e.g. something with lots of fat and sugar) and then try to undo the "damage" by exercising, but it's one of the (many) reasons I train so hard. I like to eat my little "indiscretions". If you train hard you can handle quite a bit of junk without having to carry it around... and if you exercise hard you get many other advantages anyway, so it's not a waste of energy.

There's a theory flying around that if you eat well and get healthy you don't crave junk foods anymore. Well, perhaps we don't crave them, but that doesn't mean we won't enjoy them. There's no way I'm going the rest of my life not eating those little luxuries from time to time. Eating them is like taking a vacation - it's good for the soul... and most importantly, never feel guilty eating them.

If you don't exercise you'll probably end up wearing them unless you can cut the calories somewhere else from your healthy food, which isn't a good thing.

Jingthing · October 7, 2016

1 hour ago, bamukloy said:

I would not trust surgery to solve the long term issues .

I know two people who had the older lap-band style surgery. Five years later they are as big as they ever were.

Doctors claimed:

-the surgery will make you loose your appetite (somewhat)

-you wont be (physically) capable of eating the way you used to.

These statements were proven to be 100% false in both those individual cases.

Of course, they ended up going back to bad old habits of comfort, junk food, huge portions.. no exercise.
...

Be careful of drawing global conclusions from a very limited sample group, the two people you know that had a procedure, which you failed to mention, BTW, whether they were MORBIDLY OBESE (by BMI) the group that medically speaking should really strongly consider bariatric as their absolutely BEST hope.

Also your two cases appear to obviously be poorly motivated patients. Like I've said already and the quote below says, BEHAVIOR changes are needed in ADDITION to the procedures.

Also to add, another group that should strongly consider a procedure are people who are less than morbidly obese, but have multiple obesity related chronic disease conditions, and also of course have tried non-surgical methods probably multiple times without long term success.

This is an older article. The link I provided before indicated there have been major advances since then, and most likely more are coming.

I personally am not in a group that would be considered for such a procedure, but again I urge people that are, to ignore the morality preachers (the blame and shame game, it's for the birds), and consider your options that will definitely have better odds of long term success in improving your quality of life and life span than diet/excercise changes ALONE.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3470459/

Quote

At present, weight loss surgery is the most effective and sustainable treatment option for severe obesity as long as the individual is motivated to make the lifestyle changes required. Despite the invasive nature of bariatric surgery, the initial costs involved, the potential need for re-operation and the long-term consequences requiring lifelong monitoring and medical care, given its success and overall safety record and the burden of obesity and its comorbidities, the number of morbidly obese patients seeking and undergoing bariatric surgery will undoubtedly continue to grow.

Again, this is a health forum, and the endless morality preaching telling the class of people that really should strongly consider a procedure for the sake of their health that they shouldn't, is basically a form of forum MALPRACTICE. Medically speaking, UNETHICAL.

Not saying all such people would be good candidates for procedures. Of course not, and many won't have access to them for financial reasons, etc. But strongly consider if it's possible, yes, of course.

Edited October 7, 2016 by Jingthing

robblok · October 8, 2016

13 hours ago, Jingthing said:

If I recall correctly, you were never so obese that surgery would ever be recommended by an ethical doctor anyway, so irrelevant then. Of course many doctors aren't ethical and will do most any procedure if you can pay.

I would agree surgery as a "first step" would be unusual, but I can assure the vast majority of people dealing with morbid obesity or even more general obesity, that it wouldn't be the first step.

Nope.. only lost 25 KG (maybe more in fat.. not sure added a lot of muscle). But like many I don't have perfect genes, I got a thyroid problem and I still lost the weight.

II really don't get it because its proven that just cutting out processed food would help a lot to lose weight. It just shows they are not committed enough to lose the weight. You yourself have lost weight.. everyone can lose weight as long as they stick with their program. I can understand people being a bit overweight (not being strict on what they eat). But those guys like in the picture have no excuse in my book (unless a real valid medical reason)

Your constantly promoting surgery.. and now adding that they need lifestyle changes.. lifestyle changes alone would suffice too. Just too many people don't want to change their life that is the problem.

Edited October 8, 2016 by robblok

Jingthing · October 8, 2016

Wrong. For the morbidly obese behavior changes will result in long term improvement less than one percent of the time. Yes I would promote surgery for that group and raise their odds massively.

tropo · October 8, 2016

8 hours ago, robblok said:

Nope.. only lost 25 KG (maybe more in fat.. not sure added a lot of muscle). But like many I don't have perfect genes, I got a thyroid problem and I still lost the weight.

Assuming you're around 10% fat now, wouldn't that work out to about 35kg of fat at your fattest point?... so you were in the obese category too?

You've been there and done it... and stayed lean for how many years? 5?

It's always nice to hear from people who have achieved their goals (permanent fat loss) rather than from fat people constantly making excuses and not willing to put in the hard work.

Edited October 8, 2016 by tropo

robblok · October 8, 2016

4 hours ago, tropo said:

Assuming you're around 10% fat now, wouldn't that work out to about 35kg of fat at your fattest point?... so you were in the obese category too?

You've been there and done it... and stayed lean for how many years? 5?

It's always nice to hear from people who have achieved their goals (permanent fat loss) rather than from fat people constantly making excuses and not willing to put in the hard work.

To be honest I am not sure but all in all I must have lost more then the 25 kg because since then I stayed around the same weight while adding quite a bit of muscle.

Have kept it off a bit over 5 years now.. 2011 got lean .. now still lean and still working out so yes there are quite a few people who do get to achieve their goals.

robblok · October 9, 2016

In my personal group of friends and people I know more then a few have started a weight loss program and succeeded. But most of course added exercise and diet and were convinced that they themselves were the reason they got fat. Not some magic outside influence. They did read up about the problems one could encounter but started with a can do attitude and succeeded. My mom on the other hand (i love her a lot) always talks about doing exercise always talks about eating less.. but never does. Dad who also was obese (real big beer belly) just started biking after heart problems (they opened up his chest). Now he lost most of that fat without changes in diet. But then again not many have the time for 4 hours on a bike 5 times a week. His cardiologist is always amazed at his results.

To be honest I think losing weight is more an attitude problem then a genetic problem for most. Many people are just unwilling or unable to change. Changing habits is hard especially in a society where food is so important (think US its more important than where I come from). If you look at JT (no offence) but he is a restaurant reviewer and crazy about food. How can you expect people for who food is the center of their life to lose weight (or welcome eating less). For them its real hard to change their habits (but not impossible). For me food is just fuel (though i love chocolate and yesterday had a snickers bar and an other chocolate treat in a moment of weakness. Been quite a while since that happened. But it just shows I am not perfect too)

There should be a change in the world in how we view food that would be the only way to really combat this problem. We all know that people were a lot less fat before there was so much processed food available. This is the problem too much nice food available. When I was younger there were not so many restaurants and eating out was a treat.. now its normal. If i look at the accounts of some of my clients and see all the crap they order online from Mc Donalds / and others it is totally different then how it was before. So its not our genetics.. its the environment.

I am perfectly content eating the same stuff day in day out, not many can do that (does not mean I would not love to buy pizza or sit at Swensens every day if it would not be bad for me). I have also had my bad months in the 5-6 years i kept my weight off.. my divorce last year helped me gain some weight (lost it and more) Point is there will always be setbacks.. but getting back with the program is what counts.

I

tropo · October 9, 2016

7 hours ago, robblok said:

. For me food is just fuel (though i love chocolate and yesterday had a snickers bar and an other chocolate treat in a moment of weakness. Been quite a while since that happened. But it just shows I am not perfect too)

Quote

does not mean I would not love to buy pizza or sit at Swensens every day if it would not be bad for me

I think that's going a bit overboard - beating yourself up over a few chocolate treats, which you explain is a rare occasion.

If you're going to treat yourself to something bad, you should feel good about it, otherwise it's pointless as you're not really enjoying it because you're feeling guilty.

Better to feel confident the treat will not halt your progress and feel good about it, so you can enjoy it.

I do eat at Swensens from time to time.

Edited October 9, 2016 by tropo

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

7 hours ago, robblok said:

...
If you look at JT (no offence) but he is a restaurant reviewer and crazy about food. How can you expect people for who food is the center of their life to lose weight (or welcome eating less).
...

He can't help himself, can he?

Obsessively peppering (oh no, that's a FOOD) his RANTS with personal attacks directed at me.

Maybe he wants a date or something?

I don't think that would work as I don't know a local restaurant that serves GRUEL and only GRUEL.

Dude, we've been through this before on a DEDICATED thread ... and your obsession with attacking me because I love to explore different kinds of (for the most part reasonably health promoting) tasty INTERNATIONAL foods and flavors was explored there AD NAUSEUM. You don't need to bring it up constantly on other threads. This thread is not about that. It's not about me personally. If I do happen to mention a less than trimming food choice on the forum, like pizza, don't be a total MORON and assume I eat that food very often, OK?

Got it dude?

Just for fun --

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/7472441-how-does-anthony-bourdain-stay-so-skinny-

Edited October 9, 2016 by Jingthing

Strange · October 9, 2016

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

He can't help himself, can he?

Obsessively peppering (oh no, that's a FOOD) his RANTS with personal attacks directed at me.

Maybe he wants a date or something?

Dude, we've been through this before on a DEDICATED thread ... your obsession with attacking me because I love to explore different kinds of foods. This thread is not about that. It's not about me personally. Got it dude?

Just for fun --

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/7472441-how-does-anthony-bourdain-stay-so-skinny-

Admit it JT, you got a crush on Bourdain

Seriously though, 7 pages now?

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

2 minutes ago, Strange said:

Admit it JT, you got a crush on Bourdain

Seriously though, 7 pages now?

I'm totally jealous of Bourdain and his food exploration travels (and fame and salary, who wouldn't be?) but the way he eats on his shows doesn't seem real. It's like he eats 10 meals a day and he orders and eats everything. T.V. shows are for entertainment and usually don't reflect reality. Reality t.v. is the opposite of reality. Look at biggest loser ... they don't show what happens to those people AFTER they lose the weight.

Edited October 9, 2016 by Jingthing

Strange · October 9, 2016

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I'm totally jealous of Bourdain and his food exploration travels (and fame and salary, who wouldn't be?) but the way he eats on his shows doesn't seem real. It's like he eats 10 meals a day and he orders and eats everything. T.V. shows are for entertainment and usually don't reflect reality. Reality t.v. is the opposite of reality. Look at biggest loser ... they don't show what happens to those people AFTER they lose the weight.

Do you think they continued with the diet and exercise?

tropo · October 9, 2016

Unfortunately ignoring someone doesn't eliminate quoted posts. ... so I get to see his crying and complaining whether I want to or not.

The poster in question believes people are obsessed with him - that's wishful thinking. He posts on every thread on Thaivisa, making him impossible to escape even if you have him blocked.

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

Do you think they continued with the diet and exercise?

What actually happens to biggest loser victims does not lend itself to such a simple question. It's kind of worth a thread of its own but the basic answer is that such extreme programs are all about profit and entertainment and nothing about the long term health of the players.

robblok · October 9, 2016

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

He can't help himself, can he?

Obsessively peppering (oh no, that's a FOOD) his RANTS with personal attacks directed at me.

Maybe he wants a date or something?

I don't think that would work as I don't know a local restaurant that serves GRUEL and only GRUEL.

Dude, we've been through this before on a DEDICATED thread ... and your obsession with attacking me because I love to explore different kinds of (for the most part reasonably health promoting) tasty INTERNATIONAL foods and flavors was explored there AD NAUSEUM. You don't need to bring it up constantly on other threads. This thread is not about that. It's not about me personally. If I do happen to mention a less than trimming food choice on the forum, like pizza, don't be a total MORON and assume I eat that food very often, OK?

Got it dude?

Just for fun --

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/7472441-how-does-anthony-bourdain-stay-so-skinny-

JT,

You love food.. your crazy about it.. you write about it and I would not surprised if you dream about it. I can understand its hard for someone like you to accept that eating less is the solution. You come from a country that started the obesity race the first because of its food choices. The whole problem is not genes its the food culture and the availability of cheap food at any time anywhere.

I am not attacking you at all.. but you see everything as an attack. Because of our difference in views and how we eat and exercise we have different results.. far less so then because of different genes and other stuff. I got a slow thyroid.. was fat too but got it off. All I am trying to do is to show people that yes there are things that hold us back but the main reasons are not those things but our diet and habits.

That I show our differences is not attacking you. But I guess your a bit too sensitive.

robblok · October 9, 2016

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What actually happens to biggest loser victims does not lend itself to such a simple question. It's kind of worth a thread of its own but the basic answer is that such extreme programs are all about profit and entertainment and nothing about the long term health of the players.

You skillfully avoided an easy question.

robblok · October 9, 2016

1 hour ago, tropo said:

I think that's going a bit overboard - beating yourself up over a few chocolate treats, which you explain is a rare occasion.

If you're going to treat yourself to something bad, you should feel good about it, otherwise it's pointless as you're not really enjoying it because you're feeling guilty.

Better to feel confident the treat will not halt your progress and feel good about it, so you can enjoy it.

I do eat at Swensens from time to time.

I am now still in diet mode.. in maintenance mode it will be different. But i just felt bad for giving in. Normally i have treats but they are more planned.. this was more of an urge I had to satisfy.

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

JT,

You love food.. your crazy about it.. you write about it and I would not surprised if you dream about it. I can understand its hard for someone like you to accept that eating less is the solution. You come from a country that started the obesity race the first because of its food choices. The whole problem is not genes its the food culture and the availability of cheap food at any time anywhere.

I am not attacking you at all.. but you see everything as an attack. Because of our difference in views and how we eat and exercise we have different results.. far less so then because of different genes and other stuff. I got a slow thyroid.. was fat too but got it off. All I am trying to do is to show people that yes there are things that hold us back but the main reasons are not those things but our diet and habits.

That I show our differences is not attacking you. But I guess your a bit too sensitive.

Please desist in referring to me personally unless we're engaged in a direct discussion that touches on personal details. The way you inject JT into your rants is sleazy. You can make your same points generally without obsessively personalizing with your moronic and ignorant projections about me. Bully somebody else. I won't accept it.

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

You skillfully avoided an easy question.

You know the answer too. Those are extreme crash programs that are totally unsustainable and almost everyone experiences a nasty rebound.

robblok · October 9, 2016

7 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

25 minutes ago, robblok said:

JT,

You love food.. your crazy about it.. you write about it and I would not surprised if you dream about it. I can understand its hard for someone like you to accept that eating less is the solution. You come from a country that started the obesity race the first because of its food choices. The whole problem is not genes its the food culture and the availability of cheap food at any time anywhere.

I am not attacking you at all.. but you see everything as an attack. Because of our difference in views and how we eat and exercise we have different results.. far less so then because of different genes and other stuff. I got a slow thyroid.. was fat too but got it off. All I am trying to do is to show people that yes there are things that hold us back but the main reasons are not those things but our diet and habits.

That I show our differences is not attacking you. But I guess your a bit too sensitive.

Please desist in referring to me personally unless we're engaged in a direct discussion that touches on personal details. The way you inject JT into your rants is sleazy. You can make your same points generally without obsessively personalizing with your moronic and ignorant projections about me. Bully somebody else. I won't accept it.

JT, you are the one here I am having a discussion with I am in no way flaming you or saying crazy stuff.

I am not bullying you at all.. you are far to sensitive.

My whole point is that people who are obsessed by food and love food have a harder time sticking to a healthy food program than those who can eat boring foods.

I don't think that your eating pizza all the time you said many times you are losing weight so unless you found the perfect pizza diet (do share if you have found it) I think you would be eating normal most of the time. I just can't help but think how hard it must be eating out in restaurants and still losing weight. For someone like me who believes that knowing what you eat and how much is the key eating all the time in restaurants would make me fail for sure. I have a hard time not eating everything that is on my plate (was taught that). With restaurant meals it would mean that I would get fat.

robblok · October 9, 2016

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You know the answer too. Those are extreme crash programs that are totally unsustainable and almost everyone experiences a nasty rebound.

The answer is .. they abandoned the exercise and diet, they should have slowly gone to a healthy maintenance diet and kept the weight off. But putting them back in their old environment without a reward for staying on weight would surely make most fall back in their old habits. There should have been a period that they were under supervision of trainers and diëtist to change their habits.

I don't follow programs like that .. did they ALL gain the weight back of just a few ? I would have thought that for some at least being at a lower weight would be a nice starting point for a healthy life.

ClutchClark · October 9, 2016

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

JT, you are the one here I am having a discussion with I am in no way flaming you or saying crazy stuff.

I am not bullying you at all.. you are far to sensitive.

My whole point is that people who are obsessed by food and love food have a harder time sticking to a healthy food program than those who can eat boring foods.

I don't think that your eating pizza all the time you said many times you are losing weight so unless you found the perfect pizza diet (do share if you have found it) I think you would be eating normal most of the time. I just can't help but think how hard it must be eating out in restaurants and still losing weight. For someone like me who believes that knowing what you eat and how much is the key eating all the time in restaurants would make me fail for sure. I have a hard time not eating everything that is on my plate (was taught that). With restaurant meals it would mean that I would get fat.

Agreed.

If JT has found a "Pizza Diet" program that allows him to shed the pounds then I am all ears.

He can market it as the JT Diet and make millions.

As for adressing JT by name, it is an attempt to steer the argument and common when a person finds they are in an untenable position.

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

JT, you are the one here I am having a discussion with I am in no way flaming you or saying crazy stuff.

I am not bullying you at all.. you are far to sensitive.

My whole point is that people who are obsessed by food and love food have a harder time sticking to a healthy food program than those who can eat boring foods.

I don't think that your eating pizza all the time you said many times you are losing weight so unless you found the perfect pizza diet (do share if you have found it) I think you would be eating normal most of the time. I just can't help but think how hard it must be eating out in restaurants and still losing weight. For someone like me who believes that knowing what you eat and how much is the key eating all the time in restaurants would make me fail for sure. I have a hard time not eating everything that is on my plate (was taught that). With restaurant meals it would mean that I would get fat.

We already dedicated an entire thread before on varying opinions about being a food "reviewer" and weight control. By often attacking me with your perceptions about what I post about on other forums in off topic ways is indeed bullying behavior.

The time and place to discuss that question has passed.

robblok · October 9, 2016

1 minute ago, ClutchClark said:

Agreed.

If JT has found a "Pizza Diet" program that allows him to shed the pounds then I am all ears.

He can market it as the JT Diet and make millions.

As for adressing JT by name, it is an attempt to steer the argument and common when a person finds they are in an untenable position.

I seriously have no problem with JT.. just with how he sees things. I think I have been pretty civil no mean flames or anything like that. So what your saying is my arguments are not good that is why i mention JT by name ? Sorry had to google what it meant.

robblok · October 9, 2016

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

We already dedicated an entire thread before on varying opinions about being a food "reviewer" and weight control. By often attacking me with your perceptions about what I post about on other forums is indeed bullying behavior.

JT i stick with my guns and feel its not bullying. I also stick with the notion that eating out in restaurants if worse for weight control then cooking your own foods.

robblok · October 9, 2016

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/R-D/Portion-size-and-eating-more-often-largely-responsible-for-obesity-Study

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/food-portion-sizes-grown-lot/story?id=129685

this is the real reason why people got fat.. not bad genes.. just larger portions.

Edited October 9, 2016 by robblok

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

The answer is .. they abandoned the exercise and diet, they should have slowly gone to a healthy maintenance diet and kept the weight off. But putting them back in their old environment without a reward for staying on weight would surely make most fall back in their old habits. There should have been a period that they were under supervision of trainers and diëtist to change their habits.

I don't follow programs like that .. did they ALL gain the weight back of just a few ? I would have thought that for some at least being at a lower weight would be a nice starting point for a healthy life.

Like I said complicated issues. Start a thread.

Jingthing · October 9, 2016

I seriously have no problem with JT.. just with how he sees things. I think I have been pretty civil no mean flames or anything like that. So what your saying is my arguments are not good that is why i mention JT by name ? Sorry had to google what it meant.

I have a problem with your bullying posting behavior trying to use me as your whipping man to dominate this forum with your simplistic and unscientific morality based ideology on weight issues.

robblok · October 9, 2016

Just now, Jingthing said:

I have a problem with your bullying posting behavior trying to use me as your whipping man to dominate this forum with your simplistic and unscientific morality based ideology on weight issues.

http://www.foodnavigator-usa.com/R-D/Portion-size-and-eating-more-often-largely-responsible-for-obesity-Study

No morality here.. just research that shows that obesity is caused by eating too much and that the larger portions are to blame.

So telling people to eat less is only right.

Research shows that in the USA they added 571 calories a day if you compare it with 1977 (when people were a lot slimmer)

That is a HUGE increase.. and has nothing to do with bad genes.. So its only normal to tell people to eat less.

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