We are Thai people - we don't need to learn English

[robertson468]

21 hours ago, billd766 said:

I go to the local government medical clinic here in rural Khampaeng Phet every couple of months to get my ingrowing toenail trimmed, and 2 of the nursing staff, one male and 1 female ask me to teach them more English than they already know.

 

The same thing happens in the bigger village health clinic where I go for a medicinal herbal massage.

 

I guess my experiences must be different than others.

 

They do have a pride in their work and they are damn good at it too.

 

What annoys me most about some posters is that they have a bad experience with some Thais and then class ALL Thais as the same. They are lazy, have no pride, don't care etc. To quote ezzra

 

"didn't care much about learning a craft, sticking and being loyal to one job, not saving or planning for the future , spending monies they don't have, living from day to day, sometimes working sometimes not, no self discipline and pride and what they do."

 

That can apply to a lot of people in a lot of countries in the west as well but I haven't seen many people knocking them back.

 

Back in the mid to late 1990s when I worked for Motorola building mobile phone sites for DTAC I used to have a driver and he would work any hours I would ask him to, book my hotels for me and look after me while we were on the road 5 days a week all over Issan.

 

At the weekends he would give up his own time to drive me around, take me home if I was drunk etc. In 1997 after the Tom Yam currency crisis Motorola lost the contract and as our contacts expired we moved on. When we found out I told him to find another job asap and I would get by with another driver but he refused, carried on as my driver and took me to the airport on my last day.

 

I have seen him around a few times since not not since I lived up here.

 

He was a good driver and loyal to me. He gained my trust and I repaid him with mine.

 

There are many Thais like him around and a lot of them can size you up and figure out if you deserve respect and loyalty. If they think you do it will be repaid by them in spades.

I have to say that my experience of Thai people is very similar.  We have a Housekeeper and despite being not very educated she is both tremendously loyal and will do anything for us and despite me trying to discourage her, will stop on after her regulated hours to finish a job she has started, but not completed.  She is also exceptionally motivated.  If she sees a job needs to be done, she gets on with doing it, without being asked to do it.  Sometimes my Wife is away from home for Business/Family visits.  She will make me breakfast, lunch and dinner and when I protests that I can do it myself, she looks very sad and disappointed.  We also have three dogs, whom she love dearly and if we are away, she stays in the house with the dogs to make sure they are well taken care of.  Sometimes tradesmen/repairmen come for payment for work/services done.  If I am busy, I have no qualms in asking her to just take the money out of my wallet.  She is an absolute gem and of course take care of her by giving her things (clothes, food etc) and an annual pay rise, which always seems to come as a surprise her.  She puts many non-Thais and those with education to shame.

[al007]

13 hours ago, Scott said:

Education is likewise affected.   The curriculum is set by politicians, who are in their position more because of status and connection than anything that has to do with education.   There changes defy reason and whimsical.   The country spends the largest % of it's budget on education of any country in the world, with little to show for it.  

 

Scott stated this, a very very admirable statistic

 

Tomwct stated the following:

I teach at a large university in Korat and my students tell me they do not need English! I tell them they can earn up to 50% more salary, if they can speak English a little. I use Seagate as an example. First year Engineer Trainee 12, 000 THB p/m but if they speak English 15-18,000 THB p/m! I got their attention!

 

The money is being spent on education, but the message is not being got over to the young, misguided and very sad

 

English is now the language of ASIAN

 

For one year I paid for three 2 hr lessons each week, for one of my wifes sons, with a NewZealand teacher, no progress was made, so sadly I gave up

 

My wife tells her sons English is required if they want to progress in this world

 

May be it is a culture problem, happy and easy go lucky

 

But then look at the olympics the UK medal list was incredible and unbelievable, from a country of approximately the same population as Thailand, who achieved only six, why I ask; because in some nations the people want to succeed and achieve, whilst in others stay happy be happy

 

Which is the best, maybe the be happy stay happy, just observations

 

 

BUT then the lady who cleans and helps in our house, her daughter has won a scholarship to University in London England, all funded by the Thai government for five years, this is truly remarkable, for a girl educated in the rice fields of Issan, it demonstrates such commitment by the young lady and the Thai government, God Bless them both

 

Y

 

[slipperylobster]

The average "Joe" here will never be a pilot or a politician...

In this part of the world...Chinese (many dialects) would be best, as most businesses are run by them.

 

Learning how to say "I want a raise"..in Chinese, might be helpful.  Good luck with that !

 

 

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

17 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

I agree with you.  I've been here a long time and know a lot of hookers who all speak decent English.  It is not the Thai people that have a problem with languages (they speak 3 or 4 different ones already) it's the English teaching.  If the punters in Pattaya can teach so many women English in such a short period of time how difficult can it be?  Time the educators took a field trip to Pattaya and see what is going on there than makes learning English so easy and quick. 

Yes, it is amazing - but then, not to knock them, but we have to look at the teachers. I think 20-30 years ago when they were in primary school, there was not much importance placed on learning English... and they have not been trained as English teachers, it being only one of many subjects they must preside over. Locally, there has been a great increase of English teachers from foreign countries, but they can't speak 6 words of Thai when they arrive. 

 

When I look at the intricacies of speaking proper English, [and how few native speakers can even on this forum] I fully grasp the difficulties. Throw in the abundance of idioms and it is quite challenging. 

 

But, I don't think you can blame the teachers too much. Imagine in your home country that grade school teachers were told they hsould start teaching Chinese... I think they are going to struggle too... 

 

[lvr181]

A picture of ostriches with their heads in the sand comes to mind. 

 

And for those higher up the ruling class/social ladder it would be heads up their *** that would come to mind  

 

Of course they don't have to learn English ( or any other language for that matter) but it sure helps to communicate with others in the wider community.

[LPCustom69]

43 minutes ago, Kabula said:

We are guests in their country and we should respect their opinions.

 

If you dislike the culture, leave and don't make it more difficult for the rest of us who have lived here for many years.

 

All these negative postings read by Thai citizens create dislike, even hate which eventually leads to violence as we are currently seeing worldwide.

 

I really miss common sense and polite expats and tourists...

We are guests, and most posters love Thais and their culture. We want to see them succeed, and not be left in the dust by all the neighboring countries. You should know that if you've lived here for a few years.

 

The greatest irony in your post are your comments about Thais reading this subject creating dislike toward foreigners. They can't read it if they don't know English!!

[crazydrummerpauly]

Unrepresentative post.  Where i am the parents are deadly serious about their kids learning English and in fact almost become a pain in the xxx with their constant demands for 'More English classes'.

[12DrinkMore]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

What annoys me most about some posters is that they have a bad experience with some Thais and then class ALL Thais as the same. They are lazy, have no pride, don't care etc.

 

You must spend most of your life annoyed.

 

Arguing for the general case from a specific instance is standard community practice on TV.

 

I find it irritatating too.

[crazydrummerpauly]

By the way - an old chestnut - we are NOT 'Guests', we are paying customers, and the price goes up year on year.  The word 'guest' is completely inappropriate to describe ex-pats.

[Zyxel]

           I remember that few years ago it was suggested to make English a second official language in Thailand like in Singapore, Malaysia, India and many others countries to encourage students to learn it. One minister (Suthep ?) turned the idea down with the argument that if it happens the world would believe that Thailand was colonized in the past.

           When I was learning Thai one teacher was telling us that Thailand was never colonized like if it stopped the colonizers from invading the country and you could see her face shinning with pride. The truth is a bit different, at the beginning of the 20th century Siam lost 25% of its territory to GB and France to avoid to be colonized during the reign of Chulalongkhorn and it was kept in the region as a buffer between the two empires.

           Empires are a thing of the past and it is good that they don't exist anymore but as it had been said before some ex-colonies are enjoying some remaining aspects from them to theirs benefits.

Edited August 25, 2016 by Zyxel

[Baerboxer]

That's an appalling but not surprising attitude from educationalists Simon. OTOH we have the government, and previous governments, vowing to improve English language capabilities and promising reforms in teaching and OTO we have arrogant, smug, inward looking "educationalists" who are only interested in how much money they can make for themselves.

 

Even people who do speak English here are often surprisingly limited in their vocabulary and comprehension. 

 

My wife helped several Thai ladies in the UK study and prepare for their UK Citizenship test. As soon as they got it they lost all interest in keeping their English to the same standard, let alone improving it. All said they'd "go back home" as soon as they could anyway. Totally myopic and inward looking.

[ev1lchris]

Thais are happy being really stupid.

 

I've learned this from teaching in the Thai system.

 

No one from this country is launching a rocket or curing cancer.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.   The topic is about Thailand, English and education.

 

[innocenthai]

Really, you are still shocked by anything in this country ? you are not 43 anymore... you should know by now !

 

 

[billd766]

53 minutes ago, slipperylobster said:

The average "Joe" here will never be a pilot or a politician...

In this part of the world...Chinese (many dialects) would be best, as most businesses are run by them.

 

Learning how to say "I want a raise"..in Chinese, might be helpful.  Good luck with that !

 

 

 

 

 

How many people in ANY country in the world become pilots or politicians is another question?

 

 

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, DearMom said:

"We are Americans- we don't need to learn another language..."

 

...heard many times in (US) America....

 

And by and large they're right. Same as the British. The universal use of English has made teaching of other languages secondary. I learned French, German and studies Latin at Grammar school, all at the expense of dropping other subjects - out went geography, chemistry, biology and art. Teachers tried to pressure other choices particularly science and some peers laughed and said languages would be useless. But I had the better career, opportunities and was able to live and travel and work on a much broader base. Now studies and research are claiming many benefits for developing intelligence in learning additional languages.

 

 

[smotherb]

Ignorance is bliss, or so the saying goes. I see the same mentality in people who suggest no need to learn English, or Chinese for that matter, when their home-country language is little used as I do with immigrants who see no need to speak the local language.

 

Look how many expats in Thailand speak little Thai. I’d wager those expats who don’t speak Thai complain most about immigrants in their home-countries not speaking their local language.

 

There seems an apprehension for learning other languages in many people. Native English speakers are among the worst; perhaps because you can always find someone to speak English no matter where you go.  However, look at the French. How many times have you heard the complaint the French refuse to speak English? Some people fear the loss of their language through induced learning of a more dominant language; others simply fear not being able to speak another language well enough or fear it being too hard to learn.

 

In countries like Thailand which have gone through moderate economic progress without learning much English it may be worse. When I have suggested Thai teachers need to learn English so that all courses in Thai secondary schools and universities can be taught in English, the prevailing response is an apprehension that somehow loss of job or face may result if their command of English is not sufficient. I have seen the same in the immigration police where English competency is needed for advancement.

 

So, I doubt the head teacher is seriously denying the need to speak English; he may simply be afraid he will lose his superiority if a less experienced teacher, or heaven forbid a lowly student, learn English quicker.  

[ev1lchris]

The only Thais that care about learning English are the women who realize they can be bigger gold diggers if they find an old white guy to communicate with.

[Songlaw]

14 hours ago, surangw said:

over the years I get the impression they feel the rest of the world is out to cheat them.

 

They grow up in a world where pretty much everyone and everything, lies to them and presents it as truth: government, media, military, friends, neighbors, et al. Cognitive dissonance is the order of the day as they wander about intuitively knowing that something is constantly 'mai chai,' but with no one talking, there is no way to do anything but suspect. Compound this with money being the primary, and oftentimes only objective, with ethical concerns barely even raising a blip on the societal radar and the paranoia suddenly seems warranted. And this is on the part of the Thais. Compound this exponentially for outsiders. I've said it before. This is a tough place. This comment is of course rhetorical, surangw. I am merely expounding on what you already said. In a word, they are correct.

[innocenthai]

22 hours ago, billd766 said:

I go to the local government medical clinic here in rural Khampaeng Phet every couple of months to get my ingrowing toenail trimmed, and 2 of the nursing staff, one male and 1 female ask me to teach them more English than they already know.

 

The same thing happens in the bigger village health clinic where I go for a medicinal herbal massage.

 

I guess my experiences must be different than others.

 

They do have a pride in their work and they are damn good at it too.

 

What annoys me most about some posters is that they have a bad experience with some Thais and then class ALL Thais as the same. They are lazy, have no pride, don't care etc. To quote ezzra

 

"didn't care much about learning a craft, sticking and being loyal to one job, not saving or planning for the future , spending monies they don't have, living from day to day, sometimes working sometimes not, no self discipline and pride and what they do."

 

That can apply to a lot of people in a lot of countries in the west as well but I haven't seen many people knocking them back.

 

Back in the mid to late 1990s when I worked for Motorola building mobile phone sites for DTAC I used to have a driver and he would work any hours I would ask him to, book my hotels for me and look after me while we were on the road 5 days a week all over Issan.

 

At the weekends he would give up his own time to drive me around, take me home if I was drunk etc. In 1997 after the Tom Yam currency crisis Motorola lost the contract and as our contacts expired we moved on. When we found out I told him to find another job asap and I would get by with another driver but he refused, carried on as my driver and took me to the airport on my last day.

 

I have seen him around a few times since not not since I lived up here.

 

He was a good driver and loyal to me. He gained my trust and I repaid him with mine.

 

There are many Thais like him around and a lot of them can size you up and figure out if you deserve respect and loyalty. If they think you do it will be repaid by them in spades.

 

 

Really funny that you accuse others to think that their life is the truth but look at you, not even able to understand that what you teach to anyone, they will forget it the next day.

My post office people also ask me to teach them words that they forget the next hour, and this is not my life, this is the truth for most, and the simple evidence is how good people in this country are at English.

What are you evidence ? your nurse is able to remember 1 word that you taught her ?

 

 

 

 

 

[Baerboxer]

1 hour ago, gandalf12 said:

Like it or not, English is the language of business. If you can't speak it you can not easily do business with other nationalities.

 

I agree totally with your point. But that again illustrates the inward Thai attitude. They only see business as being Thailand. Exports - oh yes, do a bit but need few foreign language speakers.

 

Restrictive business ownership, foreign influence kept to minimum, no need for language, that might help the masses understand more and help foreign influence expand. All part of the insular "we don't want or allow change" from those who can block it.

[z42]

School directors in Thailand are to education what grit is to snow. For the large part they aren't in it for the betterment of the students and the education environment. From many of the examples i've seen here their key focus is either on personal enrichment or on "face projects" that largely embody style over substance and any longevity.

The school director position is also essentially used as a favour mill of sorts, a place where deals can be struck with all manner of people to to help them gain some face, and the director some credibility (and no doubt cash).

 

The desire to learn English more often than not is driven by the individual (either internally or externally as some posters have mentioned), and is only really sought on a local company / business level if some monetary incentives are put into the mix.

 

Some members have also talked about the need for learning Thai, I don't see it as being essential here. Obviously being completely deaf and dumb in Thai is no good at all, but having a reasonable command of it in order to complete your daily tasks is useful (but certainly not essential).

I have made decent efforts to learn it for the sake of my kids, I want to be able to communicate with them in 2 languages. In all some interesting stuff here. I agree with the OP that the directors' attitudes are pretty disappointing if not that surprising.

[chilli42]

5 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

This is my gripe.

 

What right has the head teacher to decide that her students do not need to learn English?  (I should mention that the 2 schools that I visited were Prathom grade, where presumably the students have not yet attained an age where it is  legally-required to study English in school).

 

But an attitude like that? Just 2Km from the tourist beaches and many Thai-owned tourism businesses?  It maybe explains why so many Thais in Phuket who own such businesses are unable to string more than a few English words together

 

 

 

 

I agree there is a segment of the Thai population that genuinely feels this way.  The monied families certainly do not and see English as a significant asset for their kids.  The English speaking private schools are filled to the brim with Thai's, and more begging to get in.  All of the Thai's I know well have their children in overseas boarding schools.  What I think you are up against is that many educators are too lazy to take the extra step to do something new or different than they have been doing.  When you encounter this kind of person, and they are in any endeavour, you are bound to get answers back like "we don't have the budget", "it costs too much", "we are fine just as we are" etc

[Baerboxer]

Just now, chilli42 said:

 

I agree there is a segment of the Thai population that genuinely feels this way.  The monied families certainly do not and see English as a significant asset for their kids.  The English speaking private schools are filled to the brim with Thai's, and more begging to get in.  All of the Thai's I know well have their children in overseas boarding schools.  What I think you are up against is that many educators are too lazy to take the extra step to do something new or different than they have been doing.  When you encounter this kind of person, and they are in any endeavour, you are bound to get answers back like "we don't have the budget", "it costs too much", "we are fine just as we are" etc

 

That's my experience too. Many wealthier families I know send their children overseas to learn, usually to an English speaking country; or an international school with English language here; or a private school with English program. Some also send their children to additional English and Chinese tutors. Most want their children to be able to speak English and Chinese. But a considerable number of families just don't have the resources to do that for their kids. 

[innocenthai]

3 hours ago, Scotwight said:

Average Thai person speaks 3 languages and many Thai people speak more.  Average Farang getting ready for winter speaks one language.

It is difficult for us Farang conditioned to think that tropical people are less than us when in fact Thais have quite a bit more language ability than the Average Westerner.  My wife speaks Thai, Khmer, Lao, (a local  language), Korean and English and she is not uncommon among the educated people she works with.  It's nice to mimic all the anti English sentiment and many Thais have a problem with English although all the hookers in Pattaya do OK with a number of foreign languages. 

Central Thai	mbf	60 million
Isan	tts	23 million
Northern Thai	nod	6 million
Southern Thai	sou	4.5 million
Northern Khmer	kxm	1.4 million
Yawi	mfa	1 million

 

 

Your most funny sentence:

My wife speaks Thai, Khmer, Lao, (a local  language), Korean and English and she is not uncommon among the educated people she works with. 

 

 

no comment. you said enough :-)

 

 

 

[GOLDBUGGY]

I think most people are a little bit lazy in learning a second language. I wonder how many people in the UK know a second language (not including immigrants) when they live so close to Spain, France, and Germany. 

 

Not much different in the Americas either. Most Canadian know a little bit of French at least, as they are forced to learn some in school. But in the USA, other than immigrants again, very few do. 

 

Yes! English is the Business Language and perhaps the most important because of that. But not the only language either. Not everyone has to know English to get by day to day. 

[lannarebirth]

I think in all likelihood the school bosses comments stem from a perception (misplaced undoubtedly) that the OP finds their ability to teach their students wanting or even more likely that the OP may disrupt an income stream they may have developed from tutoring students by the same teachers that are failing to educate them during classroom hours.

 

While many bosses never needed to learn English because they acquired their job through patronage or nepotism, I find many many Thai folks eager to learn English and practice what they've learned at every opportunity.

Edited August 25, 2016 by lannarebirth

[lostinisaan]

2 hours ago, ThailandLOS said:

 

The way things are going in SEA, they are better off spending their time learning Chinese (and a lot of them already begun)

 

 Which clearly explains why China's seeking so many English teachers.......... 

[jonesthebaker]

I guess it suits TPTB as an ignorant mass is easier to control through nationalism and a 'Thailand number one' attitude.  Of course this is in part correct as Thai's did invent the coconut cup and som tam!  (or was it a monkey that invented to coconut cup)

[Fookhaht]

 A friend from Singapore was visiting and shopping with her Thai friend at a large department store at a prominent Bangkok mall.  She was shocked that the cashier of such a large store, frequented by thousands of foreigners,  could not communicate in English.   The Singaporean visitor asked the Thai friend to inquire why the cashier could not learn English for her job.   The clerk smiled, shrugged her shoulders, and said "No need."

 

Simply the mindset of millions of Thais.  

The  English classroom in Thailand is a scientific exercise at dissecting the minutia of English grammar, but little or no emphasis is lent to actual verbal communication.   Learning a language is more than a science.  It's a skill and art--which can only be honed by practice.   Thai teachers of English don't get it.