Financial Requirement for Retirement Extension

[ubonjoe]

28 minutes ago, bustit997 said:

Wow. I'm glad I'm an American and don't have to prove my income ( but must go to the American embassy in Bkk to get a verification of income notorized) or show my bank account. Thank goodness we have the Treaty of Amity with Thailand as last year I only had $300,000 baht in the bank when I renewed my retirement visa and this year my annual retirement check is comming after I have to renew the visa again. I have heard some immigration places still ask for the proof but I was only asked once and I reminded him that I was an American and was not required to show proof and he grudgingly stamped my passport and that was that. BTW, the notorized income form from the embassy I just put down whatever I want as they don't check. As the person there told me " we just notorized your signature, not what you really earn, so we don't care what amount you put down". Pretty sweet for us Americans.

You swear an oath that it is true and correct in front of a consular officer when you sign the income affidavit. That is because the embassy is not allowed by regulations to confirm a document. It has nothing to do with the Amity treaty.

Same for needing to show back up proof of you income affidavit if asked by immigration. If they ask for it you need to show it.

[Moonlover]

16 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

Looks to me like the op had enough income to qualify.

Maybe he should move to another province next time.

Udon seem to have there own wacky rules.

Thanks Lite Beer, I'll pass on your wacky suggestion to my dear wife for consideration!

 

Ok folks, just so there's no doubt about my income and whether it should have qualified, I'll lay it out for you all.

GBP monthly income 1,444. Exchange rate used 45.7. In rounded figures that's 66,000 THB per month.

 

However the supervisor came up with an annual income calculation of 17,330 x 45.7 giving THB 792,000 which I was told was too low. (Again, all figures rounded)

 

And yes, I did have a consular letter confirming my income.

 

One more item that popped up somewhere. Someone was surprised that I didn't have a seasoned lump sum. I hadn't bothered, because I didn't think I'd need one. The pound crashed 2½ months ago, and as I understand it the money has to be seasoned for 3 months so I didn't have enough time anyway! This will be rectified in time for next September!

 

Anyway, as previously mentioned the IO was very helpful and worked hard to get a marriage extension sorted. So all's well that ends well.

[laislica]

9 hours ago, Boon Mee said:

Seems like the most logical and sensible thing to do.  Just rat-hole that money in your bank and forget it.  Makes life a lot easier...

 

Just what I do BUT!

I have three books.

One with 800K, no ATM card

One with small money and ATM card.

One with no ATM card showing foreign transfers in and xfers to the ATM (and wife's account)

 

Be sure to take your "Other book(s)", recently updated (same day if possible), the book that shows transfers in and spending out!
Some IO are suspicious of a book only showing 800K with no movement.

They may ask to see another book to see that you bring money in and are not working illegally.

 

PS
Update your "Working books regularly" otherwise when there are many updates, some banks consolidate them into just a couple of lines and you lose the detail.

[laislica]

2 hours ago, Moonlover said:

Thanks Lite Beer, I'll pass on your wacky suggestion to my dear wife for consideration!

 

Ok folks, just so there's no doubt about my income and whether it should have qualified, I'll lay it out for you all.

GBP monthly income 1,444. Exchange rate used 45.7. In rounded figures that's 66,000 THB per month.

 

However the supervisor came up with an annual income calculation of 17,330 x 45.7 giving THB 792,000 which I was told was too low. (Again, all figures rounded)

 

And yes, I did have a consular letter confirming my income.

 

One more item that popped up somewhere. Someone was surprised that I didn't have a seasoned lump sum. I hadn't bothered, because I didn't think I'd need one. The pound crashed 2½ months ago, and as I understand it the money has to be seasoned for 3 months so I didn't have enough time anyway! This will be rectified in time for next September!

 

Anyway, as previously mentioned the IO was very helpful and worked hard to get a marriage extension sorted. So all's well that ends well.

 

Although you will now have to visit Imm twice to get the full 12 months stamps.

A bonus for you is that you can now get a WP if you ever need one.

All that charity work you can now do!

 

Me I stay with retirement ext and no WP.

Sorry, can't help with the washing up Luv, no WP, anyway a Thai reserved occupation LOL

(Only joking Honest)

[Boon Mee]

2 minutes ago, laislica said:

 

Just what I do BUT!

I have three books.

One with 800K, no ATM card

One with small money and ATM card.

One with no ATM card showing foreign transfers in and xfers to the ATM (and wife's account)

 

Be sure to take your "Other book(s)", recently updated (same day if possible), the book that shows transfers in and spending out!
Some IO are suspicious of a book only showing 800K with no movement.

They may ask to see another book to see that you bring money in and are not working illegally.

 

It's quite easy.  Put that 800K THB in a 3 or 6 month timed deposit and update that book just before you present yourself to the Immigration Officer.  Also, have in hand the Bank Letter they require that shows you have indeed the required amount on deposit.

This poster has never observed any suspicion on the part of Immigration that my 800K THB was needed for anything other that to ascertain I have sufficient funds to live in LOS. 

[laislica]

2 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

It's quite easy.  Put that 800K THB in a 3 or 6 month timed deposit and update that book just before you present yourself to the Immigration Officer.  Also, have in hand the Bank Letter they require that shows you have indeed the required amount on deposit.

This poster has never observed any suspicion on the part of Immigration that my 800K THB was needed for anything other that to ascertain I have sufficient funds to live in LOS. 

 

 

Ha ha, it's that swank Tux that you wear for your visit to Imm LOL

 

Seriously though, you said just to put in the 800k and rat hole it.....

That is what I did and like you, I have had no problems but we can see that some farang at some Imm Offices do get problems.

So as a precaution, I always have the other books, updated and handy......

My 800k is in a savings account, fixed for a year, however, it can be withdrawn at any time on the penalty of loss of interest.

This type of saving account is acceptable to Imm, cos it can be INSTANTLY available and that is what they need to see.

[Boon Mee]

Just now, laislica said:

Ha ha, it's that swank Tux that you wear for your visit to Imm LOL

 

 

Heh...board shorts and flip flops are generally the uniform of the day for me...

[Moonlover]

Ha, I'm so glad we've got light hearted at last! These threads do get so serious at times don't they.

 

Sorry, what was that you said Iaislica? Work permit? WORK? Excuse me! Lol.

 

Anyway, one last thought then I'm signing off on this thread. It occurs to me that this could just be the way Udon Thani Immigration have always interpreted the income rules. For the last two years my (declared) annual income was around 900,000 THB, so it wasn't an issue. And as long as one 'hits the target' one wouldn't be made aware of which target he was aiming for. If you get my reasoning.

 

Cheers for now.

[david555]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

You swear an oath that it is true and correct in front of a consular officer when you sign the income affidavit. That is because the embassy is not allowed by regulations to confirm a document. It has nothing to do with the Amity treaty.

Same for needing to show back up proof of you income affidavit if asked by immigration. If they ask for it you need to show it.

The same for my Belgium Embassy , they only confirm your signature , I even send always a document from Belgian Gov.pension service STAMPED with my pension amount , but never embassy confirmed /stamped  their own government pension document ....

.

Now I am happy not to be American , but only a EU citizen who just use the lump sum , not one problem and Quick service , after all living in Thailand , my money need to be with me , so on Thai Bank ..

 

I hope for uncle Sam's subjects the U.S embassy never ever" synchronize"  with the USA  I.R.S. because even Al Capone lost from them...(.lol )

[david555]

3 hours ago, laislica said:

 

Just what I do BUT!

I have three books.

One with 800K, no ATM card

One with small money and ATM card.

One with no ATM card showing foreign transfers in and xfers to the ATM (and wife's account)

 

Be sure to take your "Other book(s)", recently updated (same day if possible), the book that shows transfers in and spending out!
Some IO are suspicious of a book only showing 800K with no movement.

They may ask to see another book to see that you bring money in and are not working illegally.

 

PS
Update your "Working books regularly" otherwise when there are many updates, some banks consolidate them into just a couple of lines and you lose the detail.

I do same thing , but only 2 books , the big book with more than demanded ..., and the small book only for day by day use (filling online with the big one ) ,the big one receive the foreign transfers , so this way Immigration can see withdraws from lump sum & coming in transfers (code numbers ) .

Bank card from "biggy" comes only 1 day out home a year , little one every day .

Your choice your freedom...... , but need only 2 ones . Our both  ways of doing is best security

[sandyf]

On 9/9/2016 at 6:51 PM, elviajero said:

I think the problem was that your GBP income after conversion was less than 65K pm, therefore, they would have to use the combination method and you would need a combined monthly income x 12 plus bank deposit totalling at least 800K.

• If you use the income method it is 65K pm equal to only 780K pa.
• If you use the combination method the combination of income plus deposit in the bank must equal 800K. e.g. If the monthly income was 60K x 12 = 720K you would need to show 80K in the bank for 3 months, making a combined total of 800K.

If you didn't have a bank passbook showing the amount required to give you a combined total of 800K they wouldn't be able to process the application based on retirement/combination.

 

 

This is the position I found myself in a few weeks back. The pound was at rock bottom and my pension was in the order of 64/65K a month. I went to the bank and got a statement for an account that had a fairly stable balance of around 150K for several months. The IO was not happy, they agreed to let it go but I was told in future the supporting account would need to show at least 200K.

 

[OJAS]

On 9/10/2016 at 8:08 AM, Evilbaz said:

If the IO uses the cash rate when he should use the tt rate, as that is how it usually is received into a Thai bank, then there could be a shortfall if "close to the mark".

e.g. BKB cash rate today is 45.64/GBP and the tt rate is 45.9.

 

It should be borne in mind that the amount received into a Thai bank is net of bank fees which are not reflected in the TT rate. That is why Immigration tend to use the Notes rate when calculating the conversion into THB.

 

My experience of making monthly transfers from my UK account to my BKKB account via their London branch is that dividing the net THB amount credited to my BKKB account after the 0.25% deduction at the Bangkok end by the gross GBP amount debited from my UK account before the BKKB flat-rate deduction of £20 at the London end usually works out at around the corresponding Notes rate in any event!

[OJAS]

On 9/10/2016 at 8:17 AM, david555 said:

I do not know why so many are afraid to put the lump sum on a Thai bank , as you live here you pay in baht , even baht go down or up you still pay the same baht YOU LIVE ANYWAY HERE IN THAILAND !!

 

On 9/10/2016 at 8:27 AM, Boon Mee said:

Seems like the most logical and sensible thing to do.  Just rat-hole that money in your bank and forget it.  Makes life a lot easier...

 

Having had 2 separate accounts with separate banks here in LOS raided by ATM fraudsters, I would never willingly trust any Thai bank to keep 800,000 THB safely seasoned for a retirement extension for 3 months. That is why the Embassy income confirmation route is for me by far and away the safer option.

[Boon Mee]

1 hour ago, OJAS said:

 

 

Having had 2 separate accounts with separate banks here in LOS raided by ATM fraudsters, I would never willingly trust any Thai bank to keep 800,000 THB safely seasoned for a retirement extension for 3 months. That is why the Embassy income confirmation route is for me by far and away the safer option.

Ah but Grasshopper, the 800K THB account is generally Not in an ATM account.  Instead, folks usually deposit those monies in timed saving accounts. 

[Jingthing]

4 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Ah but Grasshopper, the 800K THB account is generally Not in an ATM account.  Instead, folks usually deposit those monies in timed saving accounts. 

You have no idea what percentage of people using the 800K have ATMs on them, or not.

[Boon Mee]

Just now, Jingthing said:

You have no idea what percentage of people using the 800K have ATMs on them, or not.

It's not Rocket Surgery.

Open a timed passbook account not linked to an ATM card.

Even a Cave Man can do it! 

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Boon Mee said:

It's not Rocket Surgery.

Open a timed passbook account not linked to an ATM card.

Even a Cave Man can do it! 

 You ignored my point.

I didn't say you couldn't do that.

You absurdly just GUESSED that most people don't link ATMs to their retirement extension qualifying accounts.

There is no way you know that.

You're clearly projecting on everyone what YOU would do.

So just pointing out there is ZERO basis for your assertion.

 

[Moonlover]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:05 PM, Mansell said:

I am somewhat amused by the poster....he wanted a retirement extension and they forced him into a marriage extension. I wanted marriage and they forced me into retirement extension. I find his more bizarre than mine. What can you do!

Go with flow Mansell, go with the flow. Or as Deng Xiaoping famously said. "It doesn't matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice."

 

[Boon Mee]

Just now, Jingthing said:

 You ignored my point.

I didn't say you couldn't do that.

You absurdly just GUESSED that most people don't link ATMs to their retirement extension qualifying accounts.

There is no way you know that.

You're clearly projecting on everyone what YOU would do.

So just pointing out there is ZERO basis for your assertion.

 

Fine...whatever.  Point being the poster who was scared to deposit his 800 K THB in a bank here in LOS because of some ATM rip-offs would have no worries in that regard so long as the funds are in a non-ATM vehicle. 

[Evilbaz]

My Immi office (Phuket) wanted a copy of my ATM card to show I could access the lump sum.

[Moonlover]

1 minute ago, Boon Mee said:

Fine...whatever.  Point being the poster who was scared to deposit his 800 K THB in a bank here in LOS because of some ATM rip-offs would have no worries in that regard so long as the funds are in a non-ATM vehicle. 

Ah ha, we've reached the petty stage as these threads always seem to eventually. Time to unfollow. Bye bye.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

13 minutes ago, Boon Mee said:

Fine...whatever.  Point being the poster who was scared to deposit his 800 K THB in a bank here in LOS because of some ATM rip-offs would have no worries in that regard so long as the funds are in a non-ATM vehicle. 

 

Sorry, but that's just not true. Unfortunately, there have been lots of past cases, including ones reported here, of Thai bank staff draining funds out of customers' accounts for their own benefit or that of BFs/GFs.

 

Having a non-ATM card linked account IS a good security measure against ATM card-based fraud and scams. But it's not an absolute protection against the unfortunate kinds of banking criminality that occur in Thailand.

 

Speaking personally, and knowing what I know, I don't feel safe keeping any sizeable amount in Thai bank accounts, regardless of whether they are ATM card-linked or not. So I don't, and never have.

 

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, OJAS said:

Having had 2 separate accounts with separate banks here in LOS raided by ATM fraudsters, I would never willingly trust any Thai bank to keep 800,000 THB safely seasoned for a retirement extension for 3 months. That is why the Embassy income confirmation route is for me by far and away the safer option.

I agree that the income route is the best option, but many people living here aren't actually retired or in receipt of pension/regular income so it's not always possible.

 

ATM fraud is not unique to Thailand and your money is as safe in a Thai bank as it is elsewhere. I am sure either of the two banks that were "raided" would have compensated any losses you incurred.

[Jingthing]

I'd love to use the income method. There is that small detail of not having income ...

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, elviajero said:

ATM fraud is not unique to Thailand and your money is as safe in a Thai bank as it is elsewhere. I am sure either of the two banks that were "raided" would have compensated any losses you incurred.

 

I sincerely doubt it's true that "your money is as safe in a Thai bank as it is elsewhere." Mainly because, as a farang account holder, you can expect to get little or no support / help  / cooperation from the bank or the Thai government in the event of some fraud. And there are many past ThaiVisa threads where people here have been victimized, and had the banks tell them that they were no blame, and no reimbursement would be forthcoming.

 

Second, some folks here seem to be laser focused on the singular issue of ATM fraud, which certainly is a real issue and problem in Thailand. But it's absolutely not the only way one can lose their money out of a Thai bank, because there are regular episodes of Thai bank staff stealing funds out of customers accounts, and those have absolutely nothing to do with ATM cards.

[Moonlover]

11 hours ago, sandyf said:

This is the position I found myself in a few weeks back. The pound was at rock bottom and my pension was in the order of 64/65K a month. I went to the bank and got a statement for an account that had a fairly stable balance of around 150K for several months. The IO was not happy, they agreed to let it go but I was told in future the supporting account would need to show at least 200K.

 

Sandy, I read this some hours, but it's taken till just now for the 'penny to drop'. You say your income is in the order of 64/65K. just a toosh lower than mine and in your case genuinely below the minimum requirement (unlike mine).

 

Ok, so let's take worst case scenario of 64K. That gives you an annual income of 768k, which leaves you with a shortfall of 32k to take make up a combination of 800k.

 

So why on earth should the IO grumble that you ONLY had 150k?

 

I thought my case just a bit strange. Yours is positively bizarre!

 

Good luck next year mate.

 

[Moonlover]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 1:05 PM, Mansell said:

I am somewhat amused by the poster....he wanted a retirement extension and they forced him into a marriage extension. I wanted marriage and they forced me into retirement extension. I find his more bizarre than mine. What can you do!

Mansell.

 

The penny's dropped. You've just given me a great idea. I'm going to forget all about lump sums and 'seasoning accounts' and all that stuff.

 

Next year I'm going to march in there, wifey in tow and, no matter what my income is at the time, over 65K or not, I shall apply for a marriage extension.

 

I shall let you all know what happens.

[Lite Beer]

.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Mansell.

 

The penny's dropped. You've just given me a great idea. I'm going to forget all about lump sums and 'seasoning accounts' and all that stuff.

 

Next year I'm going to march in there, wifey in tow and, no matter what my income is at the time, over 65K or not, I shall apply for a marriage extension.

 

I shall let you all know what happens.

 

Well, keep in mind there are financial requirement for a marriage extension of stay also, which are a  minimum of Bt400K in the bank for 2 months prior to the application date or a certified (by your embassy) income of a minimum 40K.

[Evilbaz]

4 minutes ago, Pib said:

 

Well, keep in mind there are financial requirement for a marriage extension of stay also, which are a  minimum of Bt400K in the bank for 2 months prior to the application date or a certified (by your embassy) income of a minimum 40K.

 

If you can't show this then

(a) the GBP is stuffed

(b) you can't afford to live here