Black debris in washing machine

[bluesofa]

Not sure if this is the right place to ask, it's the closest I could find.

We've been having black debris in the washing machine machine for a week now.

I've looked on the net and seen videos on youtube regarding black mold in the seal of front loaders. That's the closest I've found so far.

Our problem is with a top loader (Hitachi), had it about three years now. The "debris" to me looks like it's soggy black/grey paper. My wife says she thinkis it's mold.

Now the thing is the amount - it's a large amount every time the machine is used. The filter is chock-a-block full every time. It means all the washing comes out with very small flecks of black on all the clothes.

I've posted a photo of the stuff. Just to give you an idea, the "debris" in the photo is approx 5cm square. That was just after running the self-cleaning cycle once, with no clothes in.

 

[tonray]

Very common in certain areas of Bangkok. I have no idea what it is and was never given a good answer. Had problem in HuyKwang and Ramkamhaeng but now in Thonburi....clean as a whistle

[ExpatOilWorker]

It is mold or some sort of algae growth. It looks exactly like small pieces of black paper.

 

I add a big scoop of Caustic Soda (NaOH) and run the "Soak" program. It will clear it out for a year or so.

 

Use gloves and safety glasses when you handle Caustic Soda and make sure NOBODY gets in contact with the water when the washing machine drain it out. 

Edited September 10, 2016 by ExpatOilWorker

[bluesofa]

Thanks for the replies.

I'm in Udon Thani, we've been here all the time, but it's only just appeared.

 

Interesting you say it's mold or algae, the quantity and speed at which it appears is incredible.

We put some bleach in the machine, left it for a couple of hours, ran the self-clean program. The "mold" was back just as thick and fast the next time we ran it.I just don't know what to do next?

Is caustic soda better than bleach for example?

[ExpatOilWorker]

Low pH (acid) will dissolve metals, high pH (caustic) will dissolve anything organic. Caustic Soda is the strongest form of caustic u can get.

 

You can get a 1 kg bag of Caustic Soda flakes in dry form at your local hardware store. Handle it with care and don't have any leftovers just laying around.

I use to flush hand fulls of this black stuff out of my old washing machine.

[bluesofa]

Thanks for the detailed info.

I'll get some caustic soda and give it a go, I'll posts the results.

[chiang mai]

Buy a jar of oxy crystals, it's basically bleach. Run the machine on the clean cycle or full wash/max water with just the crystals and no laundry, repeat once a month.

[bluesofa]

2 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

Buy a jar of oxy crystals, it's basically bleach. Run the machine on the clean cycle or full wash/max water with just the crystals and no laundry, repeat once a month.

 

You say that's bleach?

I did say in post #4 that I'd done that already with some liquid bleach, but it had no effect. That's why I'm going to give the soda a try next, as ExpatOilWorker (post #5) said that will remove organic material.

[chiang mai]

2 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

 

You say that's bleach?

I did say in post #4 that I'd done that already with some liquid bleach, but it had no effect. That's why I'm going to give the soda a try next, as ExpatOilWorker (post #5) said that will remove organic material.

 

How much bleach did you use? We use size large scoops per clean cycle, almost one quarter of a box..

 

Oxy crystals work in a different way to hydrogen peroxide bleach, much more effective against bacteria and mould than ordinary bleach

 

[bluesofa]

I think my wife put in about half a pint of liquid bleach and we left it for a few hours, although to be honest I suppose when it starts the cleaning cycle it will get diluted with water.

That was why I thought the caustic soda crystals would be better, as when they're mixed with water it must start off some reaction straight away?

 

I'm really just learning about all this, as posting on TV has given me the most information about it. On the net generally it doesn't cover the problems that seem quite common here in Thailand.

My wife is bringing some soda crystals with her when she comes home later, so that'll be the next option.

[chiang mai]

1 minute ago, bluesofa said:

I think my wife put in about half a pint of liquid bleach and we left it for a few hours, although to be honest I suppose when it starts the cleaning cycle it will get diluted with water.

That was why I thought the caustic soda crystals would be better, as when they're mixed with water it must start off some reaction straight away?

 

I'm really just learning about all this, as posting on TV has given me the most information about it. On the net generally it doesn't cover the problems that seem quite common here in Thailand.

My wife is bringing some soda crystals with her when she comes home later, so that'll be the next option.

 

Be careful with that much liquid bleach as it will vaporise gaskets and bushings, not so the crystals. Hope you get it sorted.

[bluesofa]

Quick question on the amount of caustic soda to put in the machine?

When I put it on self-clean mode, I can select the amount of water it uses to fill the drum. The default mode is 60 litres (the most it can use anyway). So I'm guessing that should be the best quantiy of water to use. How much soda should I put in with 60 litres? The caustic soda seems to be sold by weight?

 

[chiang mai]

This one says two cups on a hot wash cycle, other threads say differently:

 

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/housekeeping/1715122-Can-Soda-Crystals-do-any-harm-to-your-washing-machine

 

http://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-clean-a-washing-machine/

 

http://www.mythirtyspot.com/how-to-clean-your-front-loading-washer/

 

 

[bluesofa]

9 minutes ago, chiang mai said:

This one says two cups on a hot wash cycle, other threads say differently:

 

http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/housekeeping/1715122-Can-Soda-Crystals-do-any-harm-to-your-washing-machine

 

http://www.howtocleanstuff.net/how-to-clean-a-washing-machine/

 

http://www.mythirtyspot.com/how-to-clean-your-front-loading-washer/

 

 

Thanks again. One of them is regarding baking soda, so I'll give that a miss.

As you say, it does say two cups on the hottest setting, although my machine only does cold wash, there is no hot setting on my Hitachi machine. Perhaps another cup for cold wash maybe.

[ClutchClark]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

Thanks again. One of them is regarding baking soda, so I'll give that a miss.

As you say, it does say two cups on the hottest setting, although my machine only does cold wash, there is no hot setting on my Hitachi machine. Perhaps another cup for cold wash maybe.

 

Can't you heat up hot water on the stove and pour it into your machine?

 

The hot temperature is quite advantageous for this cleaning operation.

[bluesofa]

It's a good idea, but I just don't know how clever this machine thinks it is. If I set it to say 20 litres and added 40L of hot water, I don't know if it would empty out all the 60L of water or think it should pump out say, 20L?

[tifino]

add a couple of tablespoons of white vinegar to the Soda crystals in a jar, mix and then pour that mix into the machine.

 

The soda crystals will then be really well activated, to do a better job

[bluesofa]

Thanks for the sugestion, but I haven't seen any vinegar for years ha ha! I live in a small village. It's proving difficult for my wife to someone selling a caustic soda at the moment. Might have to go into town.

[ExpatOilWorker]

18 hours ago, chiang mai said:

Buy a jar of oxy crystals, it's basically bleach. Run the machine on the clean cycle or full wash/max water with just the crystals and no laundry, repeat once a month.

 

Bleach (Sodium Hypochlorite) is an oxidizing agent and a very effective disinfectant as it breaks down the cell walls of bacteria. Although it may delay or even prevent new mold growth in the washing machine, it will not remove the current black stuff.

 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

12 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Thanks for the sugestion, but I haven't seen any vinegar for years ha ha! I live in a small village. It's proving difficult for my wife to someone selling a caustic soda at the moment. Might have to go into town.

 

Caustic Soda is common at most hardware stores. Look for โซดาไฟ or Soda Fai.

 

Since you are in the country side. Do you have a septic tank? Nto a good idea to dump low pH water in that as it will kill your bio growth.

 

Just use 1/4 of your 1 kg bag of soda flakes for your 60 l washing machine. Even a 0.5% NaOH solution is strong.

Edited September 11, 2016 by ExpatOilWorker

[bluesofa]

39 minutes ago, ExpatOilWorker said:

 

Caustic Soda is common at most hardware stores. Look for โซดาไฟ or Soda Fai.

 

Since you are in the country side. Do you have a septic tank? Nto a good idea to dump low pH water in that as it will kill your bio growth.

 

Just use 1/4 of your 1 kg bag of soda flakes for your 60 l washing machine. Even a 0.5% NaOH solution is strong.

 

We have a septic tank. It never occoured to me emptying the cleaner into it would affect anything. If only I'd paid more attention at school.

 

Wife came back again after asking around the village for caustic soda. When asked what she wanted it for, a suggestion was made to use Toilet Duck as it would clear the mold. However, as there's been a lot of useful info posted here so far, I'm skeptical about that. I wouldn't know if the Toilet Duck is acid or alkaline and whether it would be a good idea or not. Now I just don't know if this is genuine info or an old wives' tale.

[bankruatsteve]

To me it seems unusual that amount would build up in the washing machine in between washes.  Are you sure it's not coming in unfiltered through a holding tank or the mains?  BTW:  "Toilet Duck" is high alkaline.

[bluesofa]

28 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

To me it seems unusual that amount would build up in the washing machine in between washes.  Are you sure it's not coming in unfiltered through a holding tank or the mains?  BTW:  "Toilet Duck" is high alkaline.

 

Thanks, so Tiolet Duck would be a reasonable thing to use to get rid of the fungi, as it's going the same way-ish as caustic soda, if not as strong, I assume?

 

Regarding the amount of black "fungi" in the machine: There's a miro filter on the inlet, so it's not small pieces coming directly in. As you say, the amount is extermely high.

I wouldn't know if it's possible small spores(?) could be in the water from the holding tank ,passing though the filter and multiplying that way - in one wash cycle?

I'll give the Toilet Duck a go until I can get some caustic soda.

[chiang mai]

Looking at the picture again, the residue looks suspiciously like mushrooms. If the machine is sited outdoors, it might be worth turning it on its side to see what, if anything, is growing underneath it. Just a thought.

[lopburi3]

Are you sure it is not dried detergent coating the outside of washer drum?  Years ago we had severe problems with that when using US type detergents which were not designed for Japanese type machines.  Believe ours was normally a dirty white but might be different if contaminated by something else or a different type of detergent.  Had to remove tub and completely clean it.  Have never had happen again since change to Pao.

[bluesofa]

1 minute ago, chiang mai said:

Looking at the picture again, the residue looks suspiciously like mushrooms. If the machine is sited outdoors, it might be worth turning it on its side to see what, if anything, is growing underneath it. Just a thought.

 

Yes, the machine is outdoors, where it's been for more than three years.  I've had the back off already and had a look, there's nothing untoward there.

Initially I thought I might take the pump apart to clean it, but all the plastic pipes connecting it to the other parts are glued, not clipped/or use a union. So I was reluctant to do anything in case I couldn't find any way to re-seal the joints.

First time I touched the "debris", I thought it was wet paper, as if my son had left something in his school trousers. That's the best way I describe it (although you can see in the pic some is white-ish and some black).

[bluesofa]

8 minutes ago, lopburi3 said:

Are you sure it is not dried detergent coating the outside of washer drum?  Years ago we had severe problems with that when using US type detergents which were not designed for Japanese type machines.  Believe ours was normally a dirty white but might be different if contaminated by something else or a different type of detergent.  Had to remove tub and completely clean it.  Have never had happen again since change to Pao.

 

You know, that's made me wonder now.

Something else I tried was to remove the drum to investigate further. As it's a top-loader, there's a central cross-head screw holding it to the motor spindle. I just couldn't loosen the screw, plus I'm not sure if it's an anti-clockwise thread (as in turn the screwdriver clockwise to release the screw). Some pedestal fans have this reverse-thread, I assume to keep it tight as the motor spins.Anyway, I tried turn both ways, but to no avail.

Does anyone know which way a Hitachi washing machine motor thread runs to release the screw? The model is SF-80K.

 

[lopburi3]

Don't recall but logic would say it would have to loosen in the same direction that tub turns - so if tub moves clockwise you would have to move screwdriver clockwise. 

[bankruatsteve]

Yeah, clockwise to loosen.  (not lefty loosey) 

 

Have you also checked the detergent holder?  If you can, pull it completely out and look for built up residue on that.

[bluesofa]

37 minutes ago, bankruatsteve said:

Yeah, clockwise to loosen.  (not lefty loosey) 

 

Have you also checked the detergent holder?  If you can, pull it completely out and look for built up residue on that.

 

Yes thanks, I've checked that already.