Tenant refuses to pay rent, refuses to leave resort

[Oxx]

26 minutes ago, Global Guy said:

If the guy gets physical with you, also call the police and report any assault/battery behavior.

 

That is, presuming you're still alive.  Difficult to call the police if you're dead.

[Mansell]

Based on this guys past behavior I don't think I would try to pay him off to leave. In his drug addled mind he will just say Yes to anything and keep sucking up your money......now you have another problem. The landlord could be a good idea if you get the deal in writing from him.....but he might see how ineffectual you appear to be with this guy and he might play a similar game. Good luck. A big learning experience for you, just make sure you learn this time.

[amykat]

18 hours ago, simon43 said:

 

There is one other option which my landlord (the guy whom I lease the land from).  If I don't pay the land rent for 3 months, he can repossess the land and the buildings on it.  He has already told me that he wants to do this and then re-rent it back to me.  But can I trust him??

 

I think this is behind your whole problem!!  Your landlord may have set up this entire situation just so that he can get his land back and your buildings ...that is quite valuable I would expect!  Maybe you can thank him for just not killing you.  What would motivate this pack of idiots to take on a real business just to immediately run it into the ground in such spectacular fashion, to waste such large amounts  money  on rent ...(for what you call a FREE place to live??), etc.

 

You are going to waste your money on bent lawyers, cops, and all other everything in Phuket ...until you are dead of stress/broke, or simply dead, or fall for the trick above which your landlord suggests as the way out.

 

I suggest you start negotiations with him directly now ...as someone who understands he intends to steal back his land from you ...or think of a way out of that ...like ignore everything, go away from Thailand for a long time, pay the rent to him, etc.

 

All of this "other stuff" is a trick to take your mind off the real thing that is going on!!!

Edited September 11, 2016 by amykat
typo

[Global Guy]

21 minutes ago, Oxx said:

 

That is, presuming you're still alive.  Difficult to call the police if you're dead.

Thus, my statement:

 

"You might have to hire some foreigners to help you out if you do this. Yes, it's risky"

 

I never wrote that this is risk free. I also wrote there are no good options, only bad ones.

[KBsinter]

A good idea would be contact your (PHU YAI BAAN) probably to late now, paying him would 

cut most of the others out of the equasion,give it a try they can do wonders in some cases.

at least he won"t bite you.good luck too you............. 

[Global Guy]

1 hour ago, madusa said:

Whatever you do be careful. I hate to say this but sometimes murder comes into the picture in cases like these. I believe Thailand like Laos are places you go for short holidays not for investing money and doing business deal.

I know Thais and Laotians will hate me for saying this, I know them well enough to know they are crafty. The deal always look good, it's a bait.

I really like to set up a forum on Thai Visa for people who have been cheated in any business deal to air their grievances and to warn others . Please if someone can help to set up this forum.

I was almost cheated in a small business deal but because I was not greedy the set up fail. If you are greedy you sure fall for their trap.

If you stay in these 2 countries long enough you will finally awaken to the fact that their whole idea of business is to rip off foreigners with the help of their police, lawyers and thugs .  The anger still remain when you realize you nearly fall for their trap. I know I sound prejudice but when you realize the bloody whole country gang up on you, then it's too late.

A friend relayed a story about a guy he knew. This expat fell in love with Thailand and left his high paying, high level corporate job in Europe to move to Thailand. He started a business that was known for necessary payoffs while construction was going on. The expat was surprised how easy it was to get the right approvals on the project with no interference from govt officials and police.

 

After a lot of money and effort, he built up his business and again, no police hitting him up for any "fees." Hmmmm....

 

After a short while, the business was successful and the police raided the business, took it over, and he was fighting to get it back. He was invited to meet with some people involved with the police confiscation. He started threatening these guys to get his business back and they made it very clear, that the business is no longer his and he will end up dead if he keeps threatening them.

 

He ended up leaving BKK and moving to some village because he feared for his life.

 

The point is, they made it easy for him to get the business up and running for a reason. From the beginning, they had planned on taking it if it became successful so that is why they made it easy for him to start it up.

 

Again, there is a cultural DNA against foreigners. Sorry, even my Thai gf tells me it is how they are raised.

 

It's like jumping in the ocean and saying you don't want to get wet. You cannot fight the odds.

[dick dasterdly]

43 minutes ago, Mansell said:

Based on this guys past behavior I don't think I would try to pay him off to leave. In his drug addled mind he will just say Yes to anything and keep sucking up your money......now you have another problem. The landlord could be a good idea if you get the deal in writing from him.....but he might see how ineffectual you appear to be with this guy and he might play a similar game. Good luck. A big learning experience for you, just make sure you learn this time.

Unfortunately, more good points - but I wouldn't rely on any contracts.

 

Again, you will probably win - but it will take a long time to go through the courts.

[dick dasterdly]

More posts have been posted since my last, and it makes me feel even more sorry for Simon who seems to be a nice guy.

 

Hopefully this resort is not your main source of income or capital.

[catman20]

What the hell can I do?  I know that it will take months to go to Court.  Meanwhile, this guy is happily occupying my resort.  I know that if I win at Court, which I should do, I will get nothing in damages or lease fee from this guy.  It will only cost me....

 

you will be lucky, i think more like years if it goes to court. a bitter pill to swallow but why dont you say if you go now i will let you off the money you owe me DAMAGE LIMITATION. 

[amykat]

In a situation like Simon is in, the constant chaos addles your brain and you are unable to see the larger picture as you attempt to solve one problem after another.

 

I see this situation as already lost but the damages can be mitigated.  Each road leads to the landlord winning. If Simon goes broke, he gets his land and buildings.  If Simon dies, he gets his land and buildings.  If Simon gives up and stops paying rent, he gets his land and buildings.  If Simon trusts him and does some kind deal, he gets screwed over and the landlord gets his land and buildings.

 

I think taking yourself out of the chaotic situation ASAP is important so that you can save your sanity and any funds that you would waste in this disaster ...and then see if there is any way to save yourself??

[catman20]

1 hour ago, Oxx said:

 

That is, presuming you're still alive.  Difficult to call the police if you're dead.

dont do business with the thais

[smutcakes]

It is flat out illegal for a Thai company with majority foreign ownership to lease out land or buildings to a 3rd party. It is against the foreign business act and is a prohibited business. You don't really have a leg to stand on, as what you have done yourself is illegal.

 

Ignore this if it is majority Thai company, i have not read the whole thread.

[rosst]

23 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

How long do you live in Thailand.

 

"Friend up" a Thai policeman, pay him the required friendship fee, and he will get the guy out faster than you can say get out of here.

Yes, I am with this course of a tion.

[simon43]

Just pay a couple if local lads to have him removed. I sure they would take care of it for you

 

Yep, and then I would be watching my back for the rest of my time in that locality.

 

During my time here in Nai Yang, (15 years), 2 of my Thai hotel staff have been shot dead.  The police did f-all to find the killers and no-one was ever prosecuted for the murders.

 

I've already discussed this very problem with the 'sensible' family member (there is only 1), and it is feasible for that person to manage my resort (they have hotel management experience, speak Englsh etc), whilst I keep out of sight for a while.

 

I am quite happy for a long wait to sort this out.  But since I can close his income flow (online guest bookings), I might not have to wait too long.

 

In any case, we are not talking about a mega-resort.  This is a small business that gives me a reasonable income.  If my lawyer thinks that it will be months before it gets to Court (easily possible), then I'll just let this guy 'stew' at the resort and I'll go off and teach in KSA or China for a while.  

 

Revenge (to his finances from Court rulings) is a dish best served cold,

[Rimmer]

A post has been removed

[zd1]

What a truly awful situation you have my sympathy.

I m trying to think of what I would do in this situation and even though I hate to say it I think the cheapest and probably imho the best option is to try and pay him to leave.

Going through the courts and paying lawyers may well take more money than the resort is actually worth.

You could try the police but as you stated he is in with some of the police so this may be futile.

Getting paid heavies to evict him is opening a big can of worms he will want revenge and has a gun and will be likely to use it.

Speaking to the pu yai baan may help as he maybe able to offer another solution.

The landlords solution if he is trustworthy may work but then this guy will think he has lost out and will probably want some sort of pay off or revenge.

I truly hope you are able to resolve this but fear whatever happens it is going to cost you.

[simon43]

Just to clarify some comments in this thread:

 

- The business is 'owned' by a Thai ltd company, in which I have a minority but controlling share - all quite legal.  The Thai guy has leased the resort but has no association/input with the ltd company - that structure has not changed.

 

The landlord (owner of the land) is definitely not in cahoots with this Thai guy.  He hates him for the problems that he has caused.  In a meeting yesterday he asked the guy why he had f-ed up the business when Simon ran it great.  

 

One outcome of all this 'headache' is that I've taken a step back and critically considered my position in Thailand.  Yes, I'm sure that I'll get that little resort back and can get it generating a moderate income again.  But trying to run it in-person again could be a lot of hassle for only a moderate return/income (and that is only true if the Chinese tourists keep coming to Phuket, which seems rather unsure).

 

 

[free123]

Dear simon this is a very unfortunate situation that u are facing now and I hope that u can solve it quickly......

let me tell u what I would do, but a warning dont do this at home....

a first word : forget the legal crap it never works especially not in LOS

if I had a resort as u have the building of it and the land connected with it would involve my wife and her big family,

we all would be in that with money with activity with interest and with love.....

well if an unfortunate situation like yours will arise in the blink of an eye several brothers cousins some uncles will turn up at the resort armed with sticks knifes machetes and maybe gran bring his old rifle along but only as backup....

after a few words and cold smiles would be excanged the guy would leave quick and never come back his other options would means severe, very severe physical harm as I had observed in different situations in the past....

I dont know how long u are in thailand,how good ur thai is and how well u are connected with your thai family ...

anyway....hope it works out well for you....

[nickmondo]

On 9/10/2016 at 7:14 PM, Ronuk said:

Leasing land as a foreigner and sub leasing back to a Thai....I see this ending badly.

AGREED.  what was he thinking of?  duh

[simon43]

I dont know how long u are in thailand,how good ur thai is and how well u are connected with your thai family ...

 

15 years in Thailand, speak fluent Thai, happily divorced from my mad ex-wives.

 

As some comments in this thread suggest, I am too trusting, and this has lead to my downfall before.  I am not a hard-nosed business guy and I readily admit that my 'goodwill' (some would call it naivity), has been taken advantage of on various occasions (by both Thai and 'farang').

 

My Thai family are supportive but fear this guy, as seems many other Thais do in the locality who I have asked for help.  Thai anger + krathom + gun is not a good mix

 

Personally, I'd pay a pittance to a Burmese to 'take out' the guy, as he no doubt might do to me if he loses face.

 

I will make no decision at all until I get some legal advice.

 

As to paying the guy to leave my resort, he has already stated the amount ==> a ludicrous 4 million baht   Since it only cost me 3 million baht to build, I'm not running to the ATM....

 

 

 

[mikiea]

On 9/10/2016 at 7:17 PM, johng said:

Legal or not shut off water and electricity and see how long he lasts without.

a Hersey bar contract is what will solv.....................

[Ronuk]

3 minutes ago, simon43 said:

 

 

 

15 years in Thailand, speak fluent Thai, happily divorced from my mad ex-wives.

 

As some comments in this thread suggest, I am too trusting, and this has lead to my downfall before.  I am not a hard-nosed business guy and I readily admit that my 'goodwill' (some would call it naivity), has been taken advantage of on various occasions (by both Thai and 'farang').

 

My Thai family are supportive but fear this guy, as seems many other Thais do in the locality who I have asked for help.  Thai anger + krathom + gun is not a good mix

 

Personally, I'd pay a pittance to a Burmese to 'take out' the guy, as he no doubt might do to me if he loses face.

 

I will make no decision at all until I get some legal advice.

 

As to paying the guy to leave my resort, he has already stated the amount ==> a ludicrous 4 million baht   Since it only cost me 3 million baht to build, I'm not running to the ATM....

 

 

 

Don't pay him anything. You will never be free of him. Default on your lease agreement as your landlord has suggested. If he persists in staying, let the landlord deal with it.

What can you lose? The land isn't yours and the buildings are useless to you without the land. Empty them of your stuff and anything you can retrieve.

Way up what you have earned against what it owes you. If your more or less square or even in front, walk away. I really fear for this not ending well for you because unless he is dead you are never going to be free of him. I know how this works and your on your own.

You made a mistake but your alive to start again. Wipe your mouth and walk.

[samuijimmy]

One post removed with an irresponsible solution to the OP's problem.

[DogNo1]

Given that you have said that you would fear to live in the area even if you prevail, it might be best just to walk away and start again in another area of Thailand  where you WOULD feel safe.  Three milllion is not too much to lose. Why not cut your losses at that amount and save yourself the aggravation and personal damage that could tesult from fighting your terrible tenant. It is said that sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.  Good luck.

[Wazza1]

Get a gun, stick it in his mouth and tell him to be gone in 20 minutes or next time you will blow his brains out the back of his head, you got to look like you mean it.

 

its either that or wait for your court day and then the one after that.

[balo]

You need to pay a "reward" to the police , even if its a big sum its better than to keep him around for a long time.  

 

 

[elgenon]

I know this is not helpful but I am curious how you could lock the guestrooms and he didn't have the keys if he has been running it.

[Bung]

Sounds toe like he thinks he is going to be able to somehow take your business away from him for free.  Given recent events regarding the seizure and sale of assets of Chinese owned businesses in phuket I think a lot of locals in phuket will have become emboldened in this regard. Especially drugged up locals.  

 

I would have a close look as to how well connected this guy and his family are.  If not too well you will probably be fine in court but if not you may as well just demolish it and give the land back to the lease holder. 

[AsianExport]

So weird that you still talk like a newbie after 20 years here...

 

Not good at choosing wives and tenants it seems... or do you always attract drug addicts ?

 

 

 

 

[Strange]

14 hours ago, simon43 said:

One outcome of all this 'headache' is that I've taken a step back and critically considered my position in Thailand.  Yes, I'm sure that I'll get that little resort back and can get it generating a moderate income again.  But trying to run it in-person again could be a lot of hassle for only a moderate return/income (and that is only true if the Chinese tourists keep coming to Phuket, which seems rather unsure).

 

You are on the right track here.