Healthcare in LOS vs. back home

[DSJPC]

I am always amazed when people on TV Forums say that they miss the healthcare back home.  I come from the US, 73 y/o, now retired near Chiang Mai.  I have used Chiangmai Ram Hospital for my healthcare needs for years and , with few exceptions (I would avoid the Physical Therapy there), am completely satisfied with the treatment provided.  There is nothing I would not have done here medically!  I have Medicare insurance back home, but no health insurance here.  I find myself requiring hospital care about once a year (neurological, dental, EENT) and I always pay cash (credit card).

 

I have seen Saudis with their wives (who wear the long black outfits with just eye slits), who probably fly here in their private jets, in the halls of hospitals in BKK.  They can probably afford to fly anywhere in the world for medical treatment, but they choose Thailand.  If it's good enough for them, it's sure good enough for me!!

 

 

[Jingthing]

I hear you but if you have a major event, without insurance here it could cost you several million baht, and if you couldn't pay, you'd die. Don't assume you could fly home either in that condition.  So there are pros and cons, eh? 

[richard_smith237]

I place Health Care in two separate categories... 

 

Treatment & Emergency Response. 

 

Emergency Response here is awful - Poor traffic, no ambulance service... the best we can do is throw someone in the car and hope to get their quickly. 

 

Treatment on the other hand is excellent - IF you attend a decent private hospital and are prepared to pay or have decent health insurance.

 

 

 

[DSJPC]

I had a bout of heatstroke a few months ago in a local restaurant in a rural town near CM...dizzy, nauseous, weak...asked the owners to call an ambulance and the local hospital sent one right away...they picked me up, gave me an IV of hydrating fluid (it is my experience that u get an IV for just about anything here), delivered me to my hospital of choice (CM Ram Hospital) about 15 miles away and did not charge me one satang!!!...you will get no complaints from me on Emergency Response in Thailand...

[Pib]

Quote

 

I have seen Saudis with their wives (who wear the long black outfits with just eye slits), who probably fly here in their private jets, in the halls of hospitals in BKK.  They can probably afford to fly anywhere in the world for medical treatment, but they choose Thailand.  If it's good enough for them, it's sure good enough for me!!

 

 

Yeap, they can afford the treatment given at some of the 5 star hotel-like hospitals in Bangkok....they are treated like royalty at a price.   They can also get some procedures/treatments which have not been approved/legally allowed in the Europe/U.S./etc.

[lopburi3]

Emergency response is poor - that is a fact - but at least in Chiang Mai there was enough room for an emergency vehicle to come to you.  In Bangkok most people would have to make there own way to hospital if time was a concern - there is just too much traffic and very little priority given to emergency vehicles.

 

As for Thailand being a medical destination for those from Middle East this is by plan and mostly due to governments - with, from what I have read, governments picking up the bills here at a reasonable price destination with good facilities just as others with insurance do.  State of the art advanced treatments with better doctors is often more widely available in home countries.  But if you can afford/find the best doctors here it is a good medical treatment destination.  But the poor English ability of most is evident even at the best and most expensive facilities - with many having to hire foreign staff to help communicate.  And when this extends to doctors, as it often does, it is a very serious medical issue for treatment of anything less than the obvious.  Most people would probably be better served in there home country in there home language.

[swissie]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I hear you but if you have a major event, without insurance here it could cost you several million baht, and if you couldn't pay, you'd die. Don't assume you could fly home either in that condition.  So there are pros and cons, eh? 

Exactly. Major events come overnight. At the age of 73, health insurance in Thailand will start to get expensive.

 

Without health insurance: It's like the guy jumping off the 10th floor and on the way down, passing the 5th floor exclaiming: So far, everything went all right !

Cheers.

 

[Scotwight]

Proper planning can take care of most emergencies for those willing to plan.  

 

Mobile ICU

Mobile ICU (Intensive Care Unit) for seriously injured or ill patients is outfitted especially to provide the best immediate treatment for our patients.

This ambulance offers you the best emergency treatment using high technology medical equipment, e.g. the Nasal CPAP (Nasal continuous positive airway pressure), oxygen supply and suction equipment, blood pressure monitoring, saline drips, electrocardiogram, defibrillator and emergency medicines, etc. Our rescue team of doctors and nurses will give primary treatment to the patients as if they were in the hospital’s emergency room.

 

The Mobile CCU (Coronary Care Unit) will provide timely assistance for patients suffering from heart conditions. This mobile unit has doctors specializing in heart problems and has the highest on-board medical technology equipment similar to an emergency ward, not just an ambulance. The patients receive specialist treatment immediately in the mobile CCU, during the transfer to the hospital.

 

I've used Thai emergency rooms 3 times and found the service to be 1000% quicker and better than the USA.  The only question of credit was answered by my wife (Will you take care of the expense? Yes.) and they proceeded to provide the emergency service.  

 

I have found a need for someone like "Dr. House" for long term care.  Thai doctors expect less questions than I am prone to ask.  I feel that I am better informed on meds through the internet than they are and have refused prescriptions at the hospital pharmacy a number of times.  

[richard_smith237]

1 hour ago, DSJPC said:

I had a bout of heatstroke a few months ago in a local restaurant in a rural town near CM...dizzy, nauseous, weak...asked the owners to call an ambulance and the local hospital sent one right away...they picked me up, gave me an IV of hydrating fluid (it is my experience that u get an IV for just about anything here), delivered me to my hospital of choice (CM Ram Hospital) about 15 miles away and did not charge me one satang!!!...you will get no complaints from me on Emergency Response in Thailand...

 

You may find room for concern should you find yourself in a much more serious situation and require an experienced emergency medical response. 

 

-----

 

A year ago my Son fell quite unwell - it was not a life and death emergency at that stage, his temperature was enough to warrant great concern and definitely a hospital visit (Samitivej Bangkok). I was not impressed by the first Dr. we saw, I demanded a senior Paediatrician who took the symptoms more seriously and discussed with me in depth the possibilities and options - My Son was in Hospital for 10 days. 

 

My concern is that if it is me who is unwell, I might not have the wherewithal to question decisions being made to ensure assumptions by an inexperienced Dr. are not being made. 

 

Thus: I trust that when I am receiving non-emergency care I can hold an intelligent discussion with the Dr., seek second opinions and even do some of my own research to ensure I am satisfied with my treatment.

 

I am a dash untrusting of Dr's here, I've seen a few mistakes and have learnt to question everything, the excellent Dr's have answered my questions eloquently, intelligently and confidently without ego, but I've seen a few get upset and take offence - I have the option to and have simply got up and walked out. 

 

However, in an emergency situation I have no such luxury [to walk out] and am heavily reliant on whoever is on duty...  IMO this could be somewhat of a lottery even at the best hospitals in Thailand (Burungrad, Samitivej).

 

 

[Scotwight]

7 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

You may find room for concern should you find yourself in a much more serious situation and require an experienced emergency medical response. 

 

-----

 

A year ago my Son fell quite unwell - it was not a life and death emergency at that stage, his temperature was enough to warrant great concern and definitely a hospital visit (Samitivej Bangkok). I was not impressed by the first Dr. we saw, I demanded a senior Paediatrician who took the symptoms more seriously and discussed with me in depth the possibilities and options - My Son was in Hospital for 10 days. 

 

My concern is that if it is me who is unwell, I might not have the wherewithal to question decisions being made to ensure assumptions by an inexperienced Dr. are not being made. 

 

Thus: I trust that when I am receiving non-emergency care I can hold an intelligent discussion with the Dr., seek second opinions and even do some of my own research to ensure I am satisfied with my treatment.

 

I am a dash untrusting of Dr's here, I've seen a few mistakes and have learnt to question everything, the excellent Dr's have answered my questions eloquently, intelligently and confidently without ego, but I've seen a few get upset and take offence - I have the option to and have simply got up and walked out. 

 

However, in an emergency situation I have no such luxury [to walk out] and am heavily reliant on whoever is on duty...  IMO this could be somewhat of a lottery even at the best hospitals in Thailand (Burungrad, Samitivej).

I had a heart attack and two other serious emergency problems requiring surgery and anesthesia with no major problems.  Medical error is the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA.     http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139

[Scotwight]

NHS chiefs warn that hospitals in England are on the brink of collapse.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/10/hospitals-on-brink-of-collapse-say-health-chiefs

[richard_smith237]

10 hours ago, Scotwight said:

I had a heart attack and two other serious emergency problems requiring surgery and anesthesia with no major problems.  Medical error is the 3rd leading cause of death in the USA.     http://www.bmj.com/content/353/bmj.i2139

 

Are you suggesting emergency medical care is better in Thailand than it is in the USA or UK because you survived a heart attack in Thailand ?

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by richard_smith237

[Scotwight]

Just now, richard_smith237 said:

 

Are you suggesting emergency medical care is better in Thailand than it is in the USA or UK because you survived a heart attack in Thailand ?

Yes had the similar things happen in the USA and Thailand and Thailand care was better.  No doubt about it. Not only one heart attack but three major life threatening incidents in Thailand.  Not hearsay.  My own experience.  

[richard_smith237]

29 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

NHS chiefs warn that hospitals in England are on the brink of collapse.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/sep/10/hospitals-on-brink-of-collapse-say-health-chiefs

 

This very same news is repeated year after year....  although this year it is more serious with Junior Dr's strikes in response to the 7 Day NHS proposals. 

 

Also in repeated News on a regular basis: Criticism of the Train services, Criticism of the Police Force, Criticism of the Education System and Teachers...   It's Politics - smoke and mirrors and a grab for larger budgets from a Government elected by a populace who wish to avoid Tax increases.

[richard_smith237]

20 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

Yes had the similar things happen in the USA and Thailand and Thailand care was better.  No doubt about it. Not only one heart attack but three major life threatening incidents in Thailand.  Not hearsay.  My own experience.  

 

Thats very interesting...  and I'm glad things worked out very well for you. 

 

From personal experience - My Father would not have survived in Thailand - It was the speed of the UK Emergency response (Ambulance Services) and follow up onsite Emergency treatment which was the primary contribution in saving his life when he suffered a heart attack.

 

Thailand does not have an Ambulance service - It has private hospitals which dispatch their own Ambulance if called directly, OR, if involved in a traffic accident  there are pickup trucks with questionaably trained personnel who listen to the Police Radio and / or respond to a call (generally referred to as the 'Body Snatchers').

 

I've been in a Bumrungrad Ambulance (following a back issue after a sporting impact) - it took 45 mins to arrive and only had a gurney and O2 (It might also have had a defibrillator, but I didn't see one). The Ambulances here seem ill equipped compared to the UK. 

 

Thailand does not have an Air-Ambulance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 12, 2016 by richard_smith237

[Scotwight]

2 minutes ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

Thats very interesting...  and I'm glad things worked out very well for you. 

 

From personal experience - My Father would not have survived in Thailand - It was the speed of the UK Emergency response (Ambulance Services) and follow up onsite Emergency treatment which was the primary contribution in saving his life when he suffered a heart attack.

 

Thailand does not have an Ambulance service - It has private hospitals which dispatch their own Ambulance if called directly, OR, if involved with in a traffic ambulance it has pickup trucks with questionaably trained personnel who listen to the Police Radio and / or respond to a call. 

 

I've been in a Bumrungrad Ambulance (following a back issue after a sporting impact) - it took 45 mins to arrive and only had a gurney and O2 (It might also have had a defibrillator, but I didn't see one). The Ambulances here seem ill equipped compared to the UK. 

 

Thailand does not have an Air-Ambulance. 

I have been taken to 4 different hospitals by ambulance.  Ambulance drivers have caught and disposed of poisonous snakes at my house in the middle of a rain storm in ten minutes.  The ambulance service was much better in Thailand than in the US in my experience.  Your father didn't die in Thailand did he?  So you made that up?  

 

 Furthermore, the Referral Center helps to move patients quickly and safely via helicopter or emergency motorcycle. Patients are then sent to receive treatment at the hospital as appropriate at the Emergency Center which has advanced equipment and facilities all geared towards sustaining life. These are operated by qualified medical staff 24 hours a day providing consistent care.

http://www.bangkokhospital.com/index.php/en/center-of-excellence/emergency-referral

 

It is obvious you have an axe to grind.  You've had one bad experience.  I've had a decade of good experiences at hospitals all over Thailand.  If you are so worried and think Thai medical care is so poor there is only one answer for you.  Go someplace where you feel comfortable.

 

If I felt like you I'd have left years ago.  I'm not the type to complain.  I'm an action kind of guy.  Mess with me and I'll do something about it.   

 

[lopburi3]

In USA every fire department has ambulance service with trained personal within a few minutes of any home in there area.  There is no such service here.  There are private hospital emergency services but in a city like Bangkok the time to arrive is often an hour or more and most people could not afford such ("Price per Transit (EMS and emergency) 5,000 baht covering the Bangkok Metropolitan Region".   As for the medical services provided - that can be good or less than good depending on the people/medical factors.

 

Yes service is normally fast here once in hospital setting.  But it is no better than most of the countries we come from and often comes with more chance for misdiagnosis due language and customs factors of both Thailand and our own.  

[richard_smith237]

52 minutes ago, Scotwight said:

I have been taken to 4 different hospitals by ambulance.  Ambulance drivers have caught and disposed of poisonous snakes at my house in the middle of a rain storm in ten minutes.  The ambulance service was much better in Thailand than in the US in my experience.  Your father didn't die in Thailand did he?  So you made that up?  

 

 Furthermore, the Referral Center helps to move patients quickly and safely via helicopter or emergency motorcycle. Patients are then sent to receive treatment at the hospital as appropriate at the Emergency Center which has advanced equipment and facilities all geared towards sustaining life. These are operated by qualified medical staff 24 hours a day providing consistent care.

http://www.bangkokhospital.com/index.php/en/center-of-excellence/emergency-referral

 

It is obvious you have an axe to grind.  You've had one bad experience.  I've had a decade of good experiences at hospitals all over Thailand.  If you are so worried and think Thai medical care is so poor there is only one answer for you.  Go someplace where you feel comfortable.

 

If I felt like you I'd have left years ago.  I'm not the type to complain.  I'm an action kind of guy.  Mess with me and I'll do something about it.   

 

 

 "I'm an action kind of guy....   ....... Mess with me and I'll do something about it".....  Really ????   Do you also love the smell of napalm in the morning ? 

 

 

 

I have no desire to get into a heated debate - our experiences and opinions do differ and there is nothing wrong with that - voicing these differences is the purpose of this thread: a comparison of 'Health Care in LOS vs Back Home'.... there is no reason to get upset.... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DSJPC]

ost

Emergency response is poor - that is a fact - but at least in Chiang Mai there was enough room for an emergency vehicle to come to you.  In Bangkok most people would have to make there own way to hospital if time was a concern - there is just too much traffic and very little priority given to emergency vehicles.

 

As for Thailand being a medical destination for those from Middle East this is by plan and mostly due to governments - with, from what I have read, governments picking up the bills here at a reasonable price destination with good facilities just as others with insurance do.  State of the art advanced treatments with better doctors is often more widely available in home countries.  But if you can afford/find the best doctors here it is a good medical treatment destination.  But the poor English ability of most is evident even at the best and most expensive facilities - with many having to hire foreign staff to help communicate.  And when this extends to doctors, as it often does, it is a very serious medical issue for treatment of anything less than the obvious.  Most people would probably be better served in there home country in there home language.

 

I do not live in CM...I live near CM...traffic and slow Emergency Response here is just one reason why I would never live in a city...

 

I do not think rich Saudis care anything about "government picking up the bills"...they can afford to go anywhere in the world, but they choose BKK...

 

as for lack of English-speaking medical staff, including doctors, I am very impressed with CM Ram Hospital...I have probably been there 15 times in the last 4 years for various reasons...every doctor and most nurses and many nurses aides speak excellent English...I have been to other hospitals in CM where this was a problem, but it is definitely NOT a problem at CM Ram!!

[DSJPC]

It is not only private hospitals here that have ambulance service.  I was picked up by a government hospital ambulance and not charged anything for ambulance treatment, one hydrating IV and a 30-mile round-trip.  Is this a gr8 country or what?!

[Scotwight]

5 hours ago, lopburi3 said:

In USA every fire department has ambulance service with trained personal within a few minutes of any home in there area.  There is no such service here.  There are private hospital emergency services but in a city like Bangkok the time to arrive is often an hour or more and most people could not afford such ("Price per Transit (EMS and emergency) 5,000 baht covering the Bangkok Metropolitan Region".   As for the medical services provided - that can be good or less than good depending on the people/medical factors.

 

Yes service is normally fast here once in hospital setting.  But it is no better than most of the countries we come from and often comes with more chance for misdiagnosis due language and customs factors of both Thailand and our own.  

I don't know where you live but the ambulance drivers fight over taking people to the hospital in Thailand and are there in a couple of minutes.  The ambulance drivers also take care of snakes and dangerous things around the house.  I've used these services all over Thailand.  I also keep the ambulance phone number in my speed dial of the expensive cardiac ambulance unit which is 20 minutes away from my home.  USA medical care is the 3rd leading cause of death.  The US has many areas where you are stuck in traffic for significant periods of time http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2011/03/08/50-worst-commutes-americas-highways-to-hell.html

Edited September 12, 2016 by Scotwight

[Scotwight]

5 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

 "I'm an action kind of guy....   ....... Mess with me and I'll do something about it".....  Really ????   Do you also love the smell of napalm in the morning ? 

 

I have no desire to get into a heated debate - our experiences and opinions do differ and there is nothing wrong with that - voicing these differences is the purpose of this thread: a comparison of 'Health Care in LOS vs Back Home'.... there is no reason to get upset.... 

 

Not trying to argue.  I do wonder reading some of the things that happen to people here on Thai Visa.  Not talking about you but me.  I'd leave and go home if I felt the health care was better in the USA.  The guy who mentioned the rich people who travel to Thailand for health care was not wrong.  Those people could go to the USA no problem but they come to Thailand.  My health care is paid for.  I can get it in the USA or Thailand and I choose Thailand.