Any experience with China Southern Airline?

[heybruce]

I am looking for a round trip flight to the east coast of the US.  China Southern has the best fare by a wide margin.  I checked their online reviews, they range from moderately positive on some sites to terrible on Yelp.  Just for comparison I checked the Korean Air reviews, they were much more consistent and largely positive on all sites.  This makes me suspicious of online reviews of China Southern.

 

Has anyone flown with China Southern out of Chiang Mai?  How was it?  Would you do it again or look for any alternative?

 

Thanks for any help.

[stament]

Hi Bruce,

 

I am glad to say that I've not yet had the pleasure so can't be of any assistance.

 

All my flying over the last few years internationally has been Thai & Emirates with the other odd airline here and there. As a heads-up recently I've been very unhappy with Bkk airlines domestically causing connections to be missed and long waits.

 

Good luck and tell us how you get on.

Edited September 15, 2016 by stament
Forgot to add something ;-)

[Chiengmaijoe]

38 minutes ago, stament said:

Hi Bruce,

 

I am glad to say that I've not yet had the pleasure so can't be of any assistance.

 

All my flying over the last few years internationally has been Thai & Emirates with the other odd airline here and there. As a heads-up recently I've been very unhappy with Bkk airlines domestically causing connections to be missed and long waits.

 

Good luck and tell us how you get on.

 

I can go one better. Not only have I never used China Southern, I've never been to the east coast of USA. I did fly to Yangon recently though.

[WinnieTheKhwai]

 

Let me go one better again in the mad dash for the most useless reply:   What is an airline?  :/

 

EDIT:  The one thing I can say however is that they're always on time for their flights to/from Chiang Mai.  So they have to be doing something right.   If the price is right I would definitely consider them.

Edited September 15, 2016 by WinnieTheKhwai
Feeling ashmed for being so useless so adding something mildly useful.

[Paul Catton]

I took a return trip from Auckland NZ to Amsterdam with Southern China Airways, June 2015, stopover Guangzhou for in excess of 12 hours each way but a 4 star hotel  thrown in as a part of the fare, which was considerably the cheapest at the time.

Major delay on the Guangzhou to Amsterdam leg of the journey but a cash payment by the airline more than compensated us for roughing it on the terminal floor with many others for many hours without adequate services.

Would fly with them again if transfer was not critical.

[pgrahmm]

We booked & flew the to CDG....First half of the flight went into their transit airport in China....We had some difficulties there because the ticketing gal didn't ticket us straight through & my wife wasn't allowed to depart & re-enter....They'd already put me through....I finally snarled a bit & made them put me back into the same area as her.....They sent our passports to the desk & brought back our boarding passes so we could proceed & walked us through....

 

The 2nd & 1st return legs were on Air France on a 380 outbound & smaller on returning....

I chose those flights because the layover times were just long enough in case of the unexpected but comfortable waiting times (3-4.5 hrs) + the departure and arrival times fell to midmornings....The pricing was close....

 

We'd read the high & low ratings but the flights were ok......

 

They kept serving chicken - which I won't eat but I ate around that snafu.....

 

Some ratings really complained about late flights & delays but we didn't experience that.....The 2nd leg was almost all Chinese & AF only had stewards assigned to the flight that didn't take their shit.....Watched one chinese guy try & snatch something off the rolling cart & the steward grabbed it back & backed the guy right down - sharply.....These weren't your skinny effeminate stewards - they crewed those flights for a reason.....

Edited September 15, 2016 by pgrahmm

[ilostmypassword]

 

12 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

We booked & flew the to CDG....First half of the flight went into their transit airport in China....We had some difficulties there because the ticketing gal didn't ticket us straight through & my wife wasn't allowed to depart & re-enter....They'd already put me through....I finally snarled a bit & made them put me back into the same area as her.....They sent our passports to the desk & brought back our boarding passes so we could proceed & walked us through....

 

The 2nd & 1st return legs were on Air France on a 380 outbound & smaller on returning....

I chose those flights because the layover times were just long enough in case of the unexpected but comfortable waiting times (3-4.5 hrs) + the departure and arrival times fell to midmornings....The pricing was close....

 

We'd read the high & low ratings but the flights were ok......

 

They kept serving chicken - which I won't eat but I ate around that snafu.....

 

Some ratings really complained about late flights & delays but we didn't experience that.....The 2nd leg was almost all Chinese & AF only had stewards assigned to the flight that didn't take their shit.....Watched one chinese guy try & snatch something off the rolling cart & the steward grabbed it back & backed the guy right down - sharply.....These weren't your skinny effeminate stewards - they crewed those flights for a reason.....

Do they have video screens with movies and other entertainment?

[jobin]

Korean Air from CNX to ICN (Seoul), then direct to ATL. Could not be easier or better.  And the few hours layover is well served by the fab KA lounges scattered over the lovely ICN airport.  Really, it's 'eat/drink/andfly'. 

 

But hey, go chinese if you want.  they make and run the cheapest of everything.

[pgrahmm]

59 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

 

Do they have video screens with movies and other entertainment?

 

None as I recall - wife said the same.....The AF legs did of course....It's possible their trans pacific flight might - or you might also get another airline for the 2nd leg if you change/layover in their airport in China.....I don't know if they just bundle people to China & back then let other carriers take you from there; trade agreement....

 

I believe they had the overhead monitors about every 3 rows but nothing of much interest.....Never plugged in the headphones.....

Edited September 15, 2016 by pgrahmm

[DipStick]

I live and work in China, and travel extensively domestic. I only select domestic flights with China southern or Shenzhen airlines, basically because they mainly use Airbus aircraft. Comfort level they both appear to be very tightly packed, food forget it, cabin crew ok, but my wife who is Chinese and with a very sensitive nose says the aircraft always smell of the great unwashed peasant.

i live in Dongguan midway between HK and Guangzhou, last year I noticed many expats here chosing  CZ out of Guangzhou for expat home visits, but they chose them for reasons such as they were cheaper than most flights out of HK (but only marginally) and Guangzhou had easier access than HKIA.

it didn't take long for the consensus to change as they stated CZ internationally were nearly always packed with noisy (unwashed ) locals and in many cases the I.E. Systems didn't work properly, and food was very Chinese and not international.

another very serious issue with transiting in a Chinese airport is a huge percentage of air space is controlled by the military, meaning civil aircraft are regularly delayed and I mean for many hours.

its your call, but for me, no thank you .

 

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I'm not sure their domestic service is likely to be comparable to their international service.

 

For my part, I flew them about two years ago, regular economy between BKK and LAX. The planes, cabin crew and food were all OK -- meaning not great, but not bad. Nothing particular to complain about. The four flight segments were on-time, and the seating was OK also. One good thing about them is Guangzhou is a whole lot more pleasant place to have a layover than China Eastern's layover city.

 

That said, I'm not sure I'll ever fly with China Southern again. On the way back to BKK, my luggage arrived with my TSA-key enabled security locks missing, the inside contents of my main suitcase tossed, and the zipper handle broken. I immediately filed a claim at Suvarnabhumi with China Southern, and they promised to reimburse. They did have the suitcase zipper handle replaced within a week or two. But despite repeatedly promising for months to reimburse me for the missing locks, they never did. And I finally gave up on trying with them, after countless phone calls and emails. Dealing with their staff left a real bad taste in my mouth.

 

[heybruce]

Thanks for the replies.  It's still a tough call.  Some of the replies are in line with the Yelp complaints; a tolerable airline if everything goes according to plan, but a pain in the a** if something goes wrong. If money were no object I'd avoid them, but they are about 40% cheaper than Korean Air.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Despite the problem I had with China Southern that I posted above, if I HAD to choose, I'd take CS over Korean Air mainly because of the latter's problematic safety record. CS's safety record seemed to be pretty good when I checked before flying, unlike Korean Air.

 

[DipStick]

It's CZ not CS, and guess what it's a mainland airline, .. The government here In China are adept at hiding things. So you admit the issues are costings. Then you are out on a limb . When I fly and I do regularly , I ensure I pay for safety and comfort, no matter the cost. 

[jobin]

Bruce, everything is tolerable, except the crash landing.  Save the bucks and enjoy our best wishes.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

25 minutes ago, DipStick said:

It's CZ not CS, and guess what it's a mainland airline, .. The government here In China are adept at hiding things. So you admit the issues are costings. Then you are out on a limb . When I fly and I do regularly , I ensure I pay for safety and comfort, no matter the cost. 

 

China the country and China Southern the airline, which I abbreviated as CS for its name, not its aviation designation, isn't going to be able to cover up any kinds of flight mishaps/incidents that occur on their international routes. Those kinds of things are well-documented, whether they occur with Chinese or Korean airlines. And between the two, certainly on international routes, C.S. has a better safety record.

 

[heybruce]

7 minutes ago, jobin said:

Bruce, everything is tolerable, except the crash landing.  Save the bucks and enjoy our best wishes.

I'm not worried too much about comfort, I don't expect any in economy.  However I do want to know that my luggage will arrive in reasonably good condition at the same time that I do.  Also, if a delay on a connecting flight causes me to miss a China Southern flight I want to be confidant that a new flight will be found in a reasonable time at no additional cost.  From what I've read, China Southern doesn't always handle these issues very well.

 

Regarding comfort, I would like to be able to reserve an aisle seat for the fifteen or so hours across the Pacific, and after reading some of the reviews I'm not sure I can do that with China Southern. 

[DipStick]

5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

China the country and China Southern the airline, which I abbreviated as CS for its name, not its aviation designation, isn't going to be able to cover up any kinds of flight mishaps/incidents that occur on their international routes. Those kinds of things are well-documented, whether they occur with Chinese or Korean airlines. And between the two, certainly on international routes, C.S. has a better safety record.

 

So without being pedantic, are you asking for advice ? Or answers to accept what your mental thinking is ! My opinion, and I fly CZ domestically 3-4 times a month is no bloody way would I fly international with them. I have tried and failed to find a story in the aviation herald where it was stated the cockpit crew didn't even have the English ability to converse with international ATC.  As I said if you're a cheap Charlie then go for it , don't argue the advice you have been given  from someone is more knowledgable 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I already said, having flown CS once, I wouldn't choose to fly with them again for my own reasons. But if I HAD to choose only between Korean Air and C.S., I'd pick C.S. solely because of the difference in their safety records.

 

BTW, I wasn't asking for your advice anywhere above. And whether you're more knowledgeable on the subject is open for debate.

 

http://www.airsafe.com/events/regions/asia.htm

 

China Southern -- three fatality incidents, the most recent being 2002.

 

Korean Air -- seven fatality incidents, the most recent being 1997.

 

And Korean Air also is reported as having a higher passenger fatality rate per comparable numbers of flights than China Southern.

 

Also, from Wikipedia:

 

Quote

 

Korean Air had many fatal accidents between 1970 and 1999, during which time 16 aircraft were written off in serious incidents and accidents with the loss of 700 lives. Two Korean Air aircraft were shot down by the Soviet Union, including Korean Air Lines Flight 007 on 1 September 1983 that was carrying 269 people, including a sitting U.S. Congressman, Larry McDonald. The last fatal passenger incident was the Korean Air Flight 801 crash in 1997, which killed 228 people. The last crew fatality was in the crash of Korean Air Cargo Flight 8509 in December 1999.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_Air#Incidents_and_accidents

 

As for China Southern, all the below fatalities were domestic inside China:

 

Quote

 

On 2 October 1990, a hijacked Xiamen Airlines Boeing 737 crashed into a China Southern Airlines Boeing 757, killing 128 people from both aircraft. See Guangzhou Baiyun aircraft collision

On 24 November 1992, China Southern Airlines Flight 3943, a Boeing 737-300, crashed into a hill near Guilin, Guangxi, due to an engine thrust malfunction. All 141 people on board were killed[61][62]

On 8 May 1997, China Southern Flight 3456, a Boeing 737-300, crashed on approach to Shenzhen Bao'an International Airport killing 35 people and injuring 9.[63]

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China_Southern_Airlines#Incidents_and_accidents

 

Edited September 15, 2016 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[CNXBKKMAN]

I flew CZ BKK to LAX last October. I had previously been on flights full of mainland tourists about 20 years earlier and witnessed passengers putting the meal trays on the aisle floor after they had finished eating. Everyone jumping up as soon as the wheels hit the runway opening the overhead lockers and unhappy passengers throwing gargage at the cabin crew who dared to tell them to sit down. I am not making any of this up either. 

      I was a bit apprehensive but the price was right and to LAX you have the option of choosing the A380 which is a great plane to fly on plus four big engines are better than two. I need not have worried the 737 to BKK to Guangzhou was new and clean. Passengers were all normal. Food was good , cabincrew were as good as Qatar, Etihad or Emirates who I fly with more often. A couple of Chinese seniors stood up to get their bags on touchdown but were told to sit down. 

      Guangzhou airport is modern , clean , full of big windows, pleasant. Some restaurants look a bit amateurish. All fine except the toilets which are large as you would imagine at big airport but there are only three stalls and three urinals. There is space for 15 or more. I can't remember the last time I had to queue just to have a piss. I glanced at the women's as I was leaving and noticed they were queuing out the door. On the return one month later it did look like they were installing more because this toilet was closed. One tip though is there are more toilets on the aircraft (A380, 777 etc) than in the terminal. Don't be thinking " I will hang on till we land" . Go on the plane.

    A380 flight to LAX delayed by 5 hours due to a bird strike on the previous flight. Basic refreshments provided very quickly. If you are worried about delays look up the flight number on Flightaware you can see how often it delayed. Not very often on my flights but I was unlucky. A380 good, passengers all fine, meals ok, the latest Seat Back TV's but the content was nothing like Qatar or Emirates. Rows of two seats on the upper deck. No USB ports on this new plane.

    Just as were we about to line up on the runway from LAX for the return flight captain announced we were returning to the gate with a nose wheel steering problem. Spent three and half hours sat on the plane in a remote corner of LAX whilst that was fixed. 15 plus hours back to Guangzhou still made my connection to BKK. 

     Bottom line they are a normal airline but I would only consider them if you are getting a good airfare. I was in economy. Flying to NYC I would check out Air China as they have the brand new 747 on that route or if CZ look for the A380 to LAX and the Delta codeshare to the east coast if they offer the same price for that routing. 

    

[heybruce]

8 minutes ago, CNXBKKMAN said:

I flew CZ BKK to LAX last October. I had previously been on flights full of mainland tourists about 20 years earlier and witnessed passengers putting the meal trays on the aisle floor after they had finished eating. Everyone jumping up as soon as the wheels hit the runway opening the overhead lockers and unhappy passengers throwing gargage at the cabin crew who dared to tell them to sit down. I am not making any of this up either. 

      I was a bit apprehensive but the price was right and to LAX you have the option of choosing the A380 which is a great plane to fly on plus four big engines are better than two. I need not have worried the 737 to BKK to Guangzhou was new and clean. Passengers were all normal. Food was good , cabincrew were as good as Qatar, Etihad or Emirates who I fly with more often. A couple of Chinese seniors stood up to get their bags on touchdown but were told to sit down. 

      Guangzhou airport is modern , clean , full of big windows, pleasant. Some restaurants look a bit amateurish. All fine except the toilets which are large as you would imagine at big airport but there are only three stalls and three urinals. There is space for 15 or more. I can't remember the last time I had to queue just to have a piss. I glanced at the women's as I was leaving and noticed they were queuing out the door. On the return one month later it did look like they were installing more because this toilet was closed. One tip though is there are more toilets on the aircraft (A380, 777 etc) than in the terminal. Don't be thinking " I will hang on till we land" . Go on the plane.

    A380 flight to LAX delayed by 5 hours due to a bird strike on the previous flight. Basic refreshments provided very quickly. If you are worried about delays look up the flight number on Flightaware you can see how often it delayed. Not very often on my flights but I was unlucky. A380 good, passengers all fine, meals ok, the latest Seat Back TV's but the content was nothing like Qatar or Emirates. Rows of two seats on the upper deck. No USB ports on this new plane.

    Just as were we about to line up on the runway from LAX for the return flight captain announced we were returning to the gate with a nose wheel steering problem. Spent three and half hours sat on the plane in a remote corner of LAX whilst that was fixed. 15 plus hours back to Guangzhou still made my connection to BKK. 

     Bottom line they are a normal airline but I would only consider them if you are getting a good airfare. I was in economy. Flying to NYC I would check out Air China as they have the brand new 747 on that route or if CZ look for the A380 to LAX and the Delta codeshare to the east coast if they offer the same price for that routing. 

    

That's encouraging, maybe they've ironed some kinks out of the system  My flight will be to New York with a connection to a regional airport on another airline, I don't recall which.  That's my biggest concern on connections, if on the return I'm delayed to NY due to the other airline, will I be treated fairly? 

 

In your last sentence, did you mean new 777 or 787?  Or is there a upgraded 747?

[CNXBKKMAN]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

That's encouraging, maybe they've ironed some kinks out of the system  My flight will be to New York with a connection to a regional airport on another airline, I don't recall which.  That's my biggest concern on connections, if on the return I'm delayed to NY due to the other airline, will I be treated fairly? 

 

In your last sentence, did you mean new 777 or 787?  Or is there a upgraded 747?

 Heybruce when I booked my flights I looked at the options and didn't go with the fastest connections offered I looked for 3 or 4 hour connections so if I was delayed I had some spare time and that meant with a 3 and half hour delay at LAX on my way back I still made my original flight to BKK. 

       If you get delayed somewhere with CZ or the connecting airline I don't see you getting treated any worse than any other regular airline like AA, Delta, United. I think CZ are part of Skyteam which is one of the big global alliances. I wouldn't book 1 hour and 30 minute connections anywhere though. Are you travelling in the winter? Bad weather? Another reason to choose a longer connection. 

   Air China to JFK via Beijing with the 747-800(brand new) would be my choice if the price was ok. If CZ is there a A380 option or 787 Dreamliner? These aircraft are more comfortable. 777 would be my last choice although ok . Cheap airfares on CZ pretty much mean the flight is going to be full. I wouldn't fly China Eastern. Call the airline up to secure your preferred seat. I called CZ in the USA and they got me on a row of two seats on the upper deck. I would fly CZ again and I was unlucky with some delays. 

 

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, CNXBKKMAN said:

 Heybruce when I booked my flights I looked at the options and didn't go with the fastest connections offered I looked for 3 or 4 hour connections so if I was delayed I had some spare time and that meant with a 3 and half hour delay at LAX on my way back I still made my original flight to BKK. 

       If you get delayed somewhere with CZ or the connecting airline I don't see you getting treated any worse than any other regular airline like AA, Delta, United. I think CZ are part of Skyteam which is one of the big global alliances. I wouldn't book 1 hour and 30 minute connections anywhere though. Are you travelling in the winter? Bad weather? Another reason to choose a longer connection. 

   Air China to JFK via Beijing with the 747-800(brand new) would be my choice if the price was ok. If CZ is there a A380 option or 787 Dreamliner? These aircraft are more comfortable. 777 would be my last choice although ok . Cheap airfares on CZ pretty much mean the flight is going to be full. I wouldn't fly China Eastern. Call the airline up to secure your preferred seat. I called CZ in the USA and they got me on a row of two seats on the upper deck. I would fly CZ again and I was unlucky with some delays. 

 

Boeing 777 across the Pacific with CZ, or, for $200 more, an A380 with Korean Air (I just found some new fares from them).  Both involve an overnight layover in JFK on the return before the long haul across the Pacific.

 

More to think about.  I'm glad I only do this once a year.

[stament]

Good luck Bruce, let us know what you book.

 

Shame you aren't coming for breakfast today as I would have liked to have met you and a few other people on TV who have helped me.

Edited September 15, 2016 by stament
Ps

[ilostmypassword]

Here's a skytrax link with info about China Southern Airlines.

http://www.airlinequality.com/info/background-to-china-southern-airlines/

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Here's a skytrax link with info about China Southern Airlines.

http://www.airlinequality.com/info/background-to-china-southern-airlines/

Thank you for the link, it's useful.

[sharktooth]

They are an awful airline. Wouldn't check me all the way to Norway then lost my bags. You will probably have to go via Guanzhou and that is a toilet of an airport.

[rogeroc]

Flown LON / BKK and return with CZ twice in the last couple of years. In my opinion no better / no worse than Emirates / Etihad etc and there were no delays. No bad behaviour on the plane and they even made everyone put their seats upright during meal service. I wish all Airlines would do that ! If they are the best fare i would use them.

[Dipterocarp]

Flew to Chiang Mai on them from overseas via Shanghai and Guangzhou. The Shanghai to Guangzhou segment is a "domestic" flight and and although transiting  involved waiting at immigration and customs line , surly officers, and  passport stamp. Luggage was promised to be checked to Chiang Mai but  I knew I was having some communication problems with the staff who mouth English sentences with clearly no comprehension. If I had not gone to collect the luggage myself at the turntable in Guangzhou it would have NOT made it out of Guangzhou. This is on business class. The Guangzhou airport is huge with new looking terminals but like everything else in China,  much left  to be desired. The decor in their lounge there looked like something out of the 1950's Soviet Union with some self-serve noodles and soup and a few cans of soft drinks/beer in a refrigerator.Food on board /service good. The flight attendants were very nice tall/skinny model types and they  wanted to chat with me and answer customer service questionnaires. High standard of English. In Guangzhou when we had apron parking a special vehicle was sent out to pick up the business class passengers. (TEN MINUTES after everyone else was sent by bus but the way , so what's the point?)  The other thing I noticed is on EVERY flight there is an obvious strong smell of cigarettes coming out of the cockpit.  Airlines don't permit pilots to smoke onboard anymore so I hope they  pay more attention to the more important safety regulations while they are enjoying their cigarettes, probably kicked back with feet up reading the Beijing Daily News! Probably won't choose to fly with them again but it was nice to avoid Suwarnaphumi for a change.

Edited September 17, 2016 by Dipterocarp

[NancyL]

In going to the east coast of the U.S., you should consider more than just the airfare.  The total travel time and where you'll spend your time waiting in transit should also be considerations, especially if you're "of an age" where your body doesn't recovery quickly from 28 - 32 hours of travel.  

 

In my book, Korean Air can't be beat for travel from Chiang Mai to the U.S. and it's well worth paying a few hundred dollars more.  You totally avoid connections thru BKK, have just one stop at Inchon to connect with many major airports in North America and spend your time waiting at one of the most pleasant airports in the world for a layover.  Bring a sleep mask, earplugs and comfy shawl and go up to the second floor of the airport.  Find one of the reclining chairs their dim "quiet rooms" and you can do some serious napping.  Or check into one of the two hotels right in the airport -- with fairly reasonable rates for airport hotels.  There are free showers in the airport, too.

 

For me on a long trip, I need to be able to put my feet up and get some good quality sleep, even just 3 or 4 hours, if I've got to do a journey in excess of 24 hours.  "Sleeping on the plane" just doesn't work in economy class.