UK Pension payments in Thailand

[UniqueWord]

I have recently become aware that I am eligible for a UK State Pension and have the choice of having this paid to a UK bank account or an international bank account.  My first thought was to get a UK bank account to give me better control of when to make transfers, etc.  Sadly, my sister in the UK told me that it would be almost impossible to open a normal account in UK as a non-resident.  Google searches and some old threads (ca 2013) from TVF confirm this.
Looking at the Pension Claim form there is a section by which an international bank account can be designated to receive pension funds but I don't understand what IBAN & BIC are.  My current annuity is paid from US and it took me forever to get over their insistence on having an ABA Routing Number!  In the end they were satisfied with the SWIFT code.
  So my question is two-fold:
-  is there any information about the possiblility, and by what path, to open a UK bank account as a Thai resident?
-  I'm assuming there are some members who have their pensions paid into Bangkok Bank;  if I'm correct, what do I put on the claim form for the IBAN and BIC?
Cheers, UW.
PS.  I apologize if this has been covered in a previous thread but I couldn't find evidence of this.

[Lite Beer]

If you look at the UK Pension topic you will see that plenty of members have their state pension paid into their Thai bank with no problem.

BIC is the same as Swift number.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/540525-uk-pensions/

 

[chiang mai]

IBAN is for use within Europe only, a BIC is a bank identification code which is a part of a SWIFT code.

[Estrada]

My State Pension is paid into my account at Bangkok Bank London and transferred by them directly to my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand. It is not hard to open an account at BBL London, just go to their web site.

[sometimewoodworker]

You will probably be able to open an offshore account in the Isle of Man. They are much easier than an onshore (UK mainland) account. They are also now within the Bacs system (Bankers' Automated Clearing Services) so transfers to and from the UK are easy, the only thing is that the cost of an international transfer from the IOM to Thailand is not trivial.

 

However the pension can be paid into your Thai account by the pension service, this goes through the US. I don't know the costs involved with that method. 

[Dene16]

If you have it paid directly to Thailand it will not go up each year with the  rpi (retail price index - inflation). Not a problem at the moment because inflation is so small but could change.

 

Always better to have it paid first into a UK bank account

[chiang mai]

1 hour ago, Estrada said:

My State Pension is paid into my account at Bangkok Bank London and transferred by them directly to my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand. It is not hard to open an account at BBL London, just go to their web site.

 

BBL UK doesn't have a retail banking license in the UK so it's not possible to open a consumer account there. What you can do however is open an account at BBL Thailand and use BBL London for BACS transit routing through to BBL Thailand.

[rockingrobin]

10 minutes ago, Dene16 said:

If you have it paid directly to Thailand it will not go up each year with the  rpi (retail price index - inflation). Not a problem at the moment because inflation is so small but could change.

 

Always better to have it paid first into a UK bank account

My understanding  is that where a person is living determines if the pension is frozen, not where the monies are deposited.

As for uprating the triple lock is still in place therefore a minimum of 2.5%

[Pappap]

The transference of a UK pension is very simple, can be done over the phone, they just need bank details, address and swift code. Can of course do by post on the application form. I bank with Kasikorn and receive it every 4 weeks on a regular basis. The UK pension authority are very easy to deal with. As previously mentioned, if you no longer reside in the UK your pension is fixed at the rate you initially receive with no more increases, even if you transfer it to a UK bank first. The exchange rate is at or even slightly above the bank rate on the day with no charges, well if there is the Thai bank keeps them hidden and are very minimalistic..

Edited September 16, 2016 by Pappap
Misspelling

[al007]

55 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

My understanding  is that where a person is living determines if the pension is frozen, not where the monies are deposited.

As for uprating the triple lock is still in place therefore a minimum of 2.5%

 

Be very careful, it is where you live that matters not where the account sits

 

Penalties can be severe, if you have had a good run, come clean tell them you eill be here from say next month

[TKDfella]

I had a Nat West account in UK prior to the Pension Service having the facility of direct international payment. As mentioned above bank transfer is costly but when the UK P.S. started the direct payment method I chose that, cost is very little. Because I had no money going into my NW account they closed it and sent me what it contained. However, like company pensions, the UK P.S. will send a ID confirmation certificate. This has to be signed by an individual of some status that has their own company stamp (manager, doctor etc.) so I use the 'floor' manager of my Thai bank where my pension is received which I think is appropriate for the situation.

[Oxx]

10 hours ago, UniqueWord said:

is there any information about the possiblility, and by what path, to open a UK bank account as a Thai resident?

 

It's absolutely impossible for non-residents to open a UK bank account now, even if you're a British citizen.  (That is, unless you lie about where you live.)

[Keesters]

1 hour ago, Dene16 said:

If you have it paid directly to Thailand it will not go up each year with the  rpi (retail price index - inflation). Not a problem at the moment because inflation is so small but could change.

 

Always better to have it paid first into a UK bank account

 

Where it is paid is irrelevant to whether your pension will be increased year by year. Residence determines that. If you reside in Thailand but claim your pension as if you reside in UK then you are committing FRAUD.

[Keesters]

3 hours ago, Estrada said:

My State Pension is paid into my account at Bangkok Bank London and transferred by them directly to my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand. It is not hard to open an account at BBL London, just go to their web site.

 

More info please. Links etc. Another user has said it is NOT possible. Please clarify.

 

 

[Surasak]

2 ways to transfer a pension to Thailand. Have the DWP transfer it directly to a Thai bank. The amount is sent as Thai baht, not sterling which means a lower amount you receive. OR. Open a Bangkok bank A/C in Thailand and have the pension transfered to BKK bank in UK, they then transfer to Thailand as sterling. This latter will cost £12.50 for each transfer.  The choice is yours as to which system costs the least?  Note. If you are not a UK resident you cannot open an account in the uk. Only other option is to have the pension paid into a friend/reative's bank and have them transfer to you. Transfer fees vary from bank to bank, from as little as £4 to £20 per transfer.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, chiang mai said:

 

BBL UK doesn't have a retail banking license in the UK so it's not possible to open a consumer account there. What you can do however is open an account at BBL Thailand and use BBL London for BACS transit routing through to BBL Thailand.

 

 

This is an important point that many don't grasp. BKB in London only provide a routing service to BKB accounts in Thailand. two options if you are transferring in from your bank account (convert to Baht in London and have a lower transfer fee, or convert in Thailand (usually) at a better rate but higher fee). If you are having you pension paid direct through BKB London (rather than via a UK bank account) then there is no choice; you attract the higher fee but the funds are converted in London.

 

I confirm, no UK bank will now open an account for a non-resident.

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

My understanding  is that where a person is living determines if the pension is frozen, not where the monies are deposited.

As for uprating the triple lock is still in place therefore a minimum of 2.5%

 

 

I will guarantee that if you have your pension paid to Thailand the DWP will be smart enough not to pay the annual increase!!

[Jip99]

46 minutes ago, al007 said:

 

Be very careful, it is where you live that matters not where the account sits

 

Penalties can be severe, if you have had a good run, come clean tell them you eill be here from say next month

 

 

Please quote a source for these 'severe penalties'.

 

In my experience the DWP have not taken any action where it is discovered that the pensioner is living in Thailand. The pension is not a benefit so I doubt there will ever be a fraud charge and the worst you can expect is to pay back the 'overpayments'. I am aware of 2 cases where the DWP were satisfied to have just stopped any future increases.

 

 

[oxo1947]

I only receive a small amount (as I was quite young when I left the UK) so I opted to have it paid to Thai bank, once every 13 weeks-- I wanted once a year but this (13 weeks) is the longest period they do.......as mentioned its relatively simple exercise.

[Jip99]

38 minutes ago, TKDfella said:

 However, like company pensions, the UK P.S. will send a ID confirmation certificate. This has to be signed by an individual of some status that has their own company stamp (manager, doctor etc.) so I use the 'floor' manager of my Thai bank where my pension is received which I think is appropriate for the situation.

 

 

Just to clarify/correct the above; you are referring to a DWP 'Life Certificate'.

 

The person certifying does not need a stamp and anyone who can countersign a British passport application can act as witness. The Pension Service also give 16 weeks now for the form to be returned. Issue appears to random, I know one pensioner who has had 3 in 3 years and one none in 4 years.

 

https://www.gov.uk/state-pension-if-you-retire-abroad/report-a-change-in-your-circumstances

[maxcorrigan]

1 hour ago, rockingrobin said:

My understanding  is that where a person is living determines if the pension is frozen, not where the monies are deposited.

As for uprating the triple lock is still in place therefore a minimum of 2.5%

That is true, my pension was/is paid into my UK bank i said nothing about living in Thailand so got the annual small increase, after about a year they caught up, (after a couple of letters sent my old UK address were returned) they notified me why my pension was stopped, i sent my new Thai address, they said since you live in Thailand you will not get any increases, and that was all, no penalties etc. money still paid into my UK bank!

This does not help the openers question i know, but just to back up rockingrobins post, i also know you can't open a UK account with no UK address, as i tried for my daughter living in the US the only advice i was given was if she knew someone with a UK account, who she could trust 199% was to open a savings account with this trustful person, and take it from there, if that helps good luck! 

[Suradit69]

3 hours ago, Estrada said:

My State Pension is paid into my account at Bangkok Bank London and transferred by them directly to my Bangkok Bank account here in Thailand. It is not hard to open an account at BBL London, just go to their web site.

 

" It is not hard to open an account at BBL London, just go to their web site. "

 

You need to have a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. You use that account number when making deposits to the London (or New York) Bangkok Bank branch.  

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, maxcorrigan said:

That is true, my pension was/is paid into my UK bank i said nothing about living in Thailand so got the annual small increase, after about a year they caught up, (after a couple of letters sent my old UK address were returned) they notified me why my pension was stopped, i sent my new Thai address, they said since you live in Thailand you will not get any increases, and that was all, no penalties etc. money still paid into my UK bank!

This does not help the openers question i know, but just to back up rockingrobins post, i also know you can't open a UK account with no UK address, as i tried for my daughter living in the US the only advice i was given was if she knew someone with a UK account, who she could trust 199% was to open a savings account with this trustful person, and take it from there, if that helps good luck! 

 

 

I think that the "trusted third party" is the  only UK route available.

 

This from the DWP website:-

 

Your State Pension can be paid into:

• a bank in the country you’re living in
• a bank or building society in the UK

You can use:

• an account in your name
• a joint account
• someone else’s account - if you have their permission and keep to the terms and conditions of the account

[johnnort]

I do use the routing facility of the BKB London by having my UK Bank transfer monies to them when I require. However, if I choose to have DHS pension paid direct and wish to use the BKB London method, what details do I supply on the form? At present I use a long account number that incorporates my Thai account number and some bank code if I remember correctly. No address. I assume a bank address is required on the form.

My UK bank account was obtained before I departed the UK. I am aware that I could have the DHS pension paid into this UK Bank account, but this is not my issue as things change. Thank you.

[vogie]

30 minutes ago, Surasak said:

2 ways to transfer a pension to Thailand. Have the DWP transfer it directly to a Thai bank. The amount is sent as Thai baht, not sterling which means a lower amount you receive. OR. Open a Bangkok bank A/C in Thailand and have the pension transfered to BKK bank in UK, they then transfer to Thailand as sterling. This latter will cost £12.50 for each transfer.  The choice is yours as to which system costs the least?  Note. If you are not a UK resident you cannot open an account in the uk. Only other option is to have the pension paid into a friend/reative's bank and have them transfer to you. Transfer fees vary from bank to bank, from as little as £4 to £20 per transfer.

You would be far pushed to beat the DWP rates. I send my private pension in £'s via my hsbc bank in the UK, they charge £4 for the service, but still get a better rate from the DWP.

[12DrinkMore]

9 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Please quote a source for these 'severe penalties'.

 

In my experience the DWP have not taken any action where it is discovered that the pensioner is living in Thailand. The pension is not a benefit so I doubt there will ever be a fraud charge and the worst you can expect is to pay back the 'overpayments'. I am aware of 2 cases where the DWP were satisfied to have just stopped any future increases.

 

It's fraud.

 

From the Wiki.

Quote

 

The Fraud Act 2006 (c 35) is an Act of the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It affects England and Wales and Northern Ireland. It was given Royal Assent on 8 November 2006, and came into effect on 15 January 2007.[18]

The Act gives a statutory definition of the criminal offence of fraud, defining it in three classes—fraud by false representation, fraud by failing to disclose information, and fraud by abuse of position. It provides that a person found guilty of fraud was liable to a fine or imprisonment for up to twelve months on summary conviction (six months in Northern Ireland), or a fine or imprisonment for up to ten years on conviction on indictment. This Act largely replaces the laws relating to obtaining property by deception, obtaining a pecuniary advantage and other offences that were created under the Theft Act 1978.

 

 

I think you will find that "fraud by failing to disclose information" applies.

 

A state pension is considered to be a benefit.

 

https://www.gov.uk/benefit-fraud

 

However, it falls under one of the "cannot be stopped or reduced" benefits.

 

Probably in view of the small amounts involved and the large costs of bringing a conviction to somebody living abroad, they would choose to simply stop increasing the pension. Maybe there is also a degree of moral sympathy involved, as it is widely considered to be an unfair practice.

 

It will be enlightening to see how post-Brexit will handle the recipients of the UK State pension who are living in Europe. Once out of the Euro-regulations they will presumably no longer be entitled to the inflation increases. I do hope that this becomes an issue. 

[bark]

I heard that in two years after UK leave the EU, the government , will be cutting the pension amount paid to retired 

people by 15-20 %. They will not announce until after the break up. But it is 100 % going to happen. They will only do

this for 7 years; then go back to original amount. 

[Lannathaijohn]

In response to Jip99

I have my UK pension paid into a UK bank account which has been maintained over many years.

However when I applied for the pension it was very clear in the documentation that a false declaration is an illegal act - such as what you are proposing to state a UK address whilst living in Thailand.

the DWP also make it clear that it is your responsibility to notify of any changes , such as change of address. Also they request, from time to time, for a " Life Certificate" so as to ensure you are alive and payments should continue - note this has to be signed by designated persons who are also certifying the correctness of where you live -

my strong advice to all concerned is that it is better to provide the truth in all such matters, and not make a false declaration so as to secure a financial gain-  also note that you will be caught out sooner than you may be thinking with appropriate penalties imposed , irrespective of what Jip99 is suggesting

lannathaijohn

[nontabury]

8 minutes ago, bark said:

I heard that in two years after UK leave the EU, the government , will be cutting the pension amount paid to retired 

people by 15-20 %. They will not announce until after the break up. But it is 100 % going to happen. They will only do

this for 7 years; then go back to original amount. 

 

Can you provid a link to this,or is this just another scare story?

[Jip99]

7 minutes ago, Lannathaijohn said:

In response to Jip99

I have my UK pension paid into a UK bank account which has been maintained over many years.

However when I applied for the pension it was very clear in the documentation that a false declaration is an illegal act - such as what you are proposing to state a UK address whilst living in Thailand.

the DWP also make it clear that it is your responsibility to notify of any changes , such as change of address. Also they request, from time to time, for a " Life Certificate" so as to ensure you are alive and payments should continue - note this has to be signed by designated persons who are also certifying the correctness of where you live -

my strong advice to all concerned is that it is better to provide the truth in all such matters, and not make a false declaration so as to secure a financial gain-  also note that you will be caught out sooner than you may be thinking with appropriate penalties imposed , irrespective of what Jip99 is suggesting

lannathaijohn

 

 

I didn't say it was legal, I said that you were highly unlikely to be charged with fraud or levied a penalty. Other posters, and my own experiences, have confirmed this. I doubt that you have ANY evidence to support your claim that "you will be caught out sooner than you may be thinking with appropriate penalties imposed". Fear monger as much as you wish but there are thousands in Thailand who have not advised their new domicile. Also note that I am not recommending people to break the law, it is up to each individual to decide. I simply dispute your (unfounded) assertion that that you WILL get caught and that if you do there will be any penalty.   ,

 

I am sure that you will go to Heaven and I won't. I maintain UK addresses and bank accounts for a variety reasons and would strongly recommend anyone coming to Thailand to do the same if they can.