Ideal Weight? Does anyone have a goal or target weight??

[tropo]

7 hours ago, poanoi said:

no, lets not assume that, lets take my word for it i took 200 mg on day 1, 300 mg on day two, 200 mg on day 3, etc, for an average of 250 mg/day. ( or possibly 2 days 200 mg and 300 mg on day 3, cant remember)

 

in addition, i did not regain weight when i stopped DNP,

as i would have if i were restoring water, as a matter of fact i kept losing weight a few more days. it wasnt until

i felt i was invincible and lost it and started eating chocolate that i started to pile on yet again

 

IMO, the ideal dosage is, if you walk 1 stair and get out of breath, you are spot on, if it takes less you are over dosage,

and if it takes more you are under dosage

 

oh, and i swing between 110 kg to below 80 kg,

depending on if i spice up my breakfast with a small teaspoon of DNP or not.

 

sleeping got nothing to do with DNP,

your theory is illiterate, i burn calories regardless what i do on DNP

"My theory is illiterate"> LOL. I suggest you look up the word illiterate as that's obviously your problem here.

 

 You are losing water quickly, not fat. In case you weren't aware around 60% of an average human body is water. You can lose a lot of water without realising it.

 

Dosages of drugs don't work on a linear scale i.e. if 100mg increases your metabolic rate by 11%, 250mg won't increase it by 26%. Even if it did, it still wouldn't be burning 0.5kg of fat per day. By making an assumption to base my calculations upon I assumed a sensible dose, not an insane dose.

 

You say you haven't gained it back, then contradict yourself by saying you swing between below 80kg and 110kg... and then suggest you gain more than 30kg if you don't use DNP.

 

You're playing a fool's game with dangerous drugs, and for what? The ability to yo-yo between 80 and 110kg.

 

Allow me to finish of with a reminder of what you're playing with:

 

Why is DNP so dangerous?

One of the risks of DNP is that it accelerates the metabolism to a dangerously fast level. Our metabolic system operates at the rate it does for a reason – it is safe. Speeding up the metabolism may help burn off fat, but it can also trigger a number of potentially dangerous side effects, such as:

• fever
• dehydration
• nausea
• vomiting
• restlessness
• flushed skin
• excessive sweating
• dizziness
• headaches
• rapid breathing
• rapid or irregular heartbeat

The combination of these side effects can have an extremely damaging effect on the body and can result in coma and, as we have seen, death.

 

Long-term use can lead to the development of cataracts and skin lesions and may cause damage to the heart and nervous system. There is also evidence from animal studies that DNP is carcinogenic and increases the risk of birth defects.

[poanoi]

i have the empirical data, and you havnt.

i didnt increase any weight at all when i stopped taking DNP,

for a few month.

it was only after a few month when i thought i was invincible and totally lost the plot and started eating an abnormal amount of chocolate i started to gain weight,

and it wasnt until many years later when i yet again lost it and ate nutella that i

added up back to square 1.

 

let me say that again: i did not regain any weight at all directly upon stopping DNP

as i should have if it was merely about filling up water levels

[tropo]

32 minutes ago, poanoi said:

i have the empirical data, and you havnt.

i didnt increase any weight at all when i stopped taking DNP,

for a few month.

it was only after a few month when i thought i was invincible and totally lost the plot and started eating an abnormal amount of chocolate i started to gain weight,

and it wasnt until many years later when i yet again lost it and ate nutella that i

added up back to square 1.

 

let me say that again: i did not regain any weight at all directly upon stopping DNP

as i should have if it was merely about filling up water levels

In most cases empirical data is absent. It's quite difficult to analyze accurately how much fat you're carrying unless you get a DEXA scan or a hydrostatic weighing. A Bod Pod would be another reasonable method. Pinch tests are ok if you first calibrate your results with a more accurate method first. The scale is not a good way to determine fat levels as it only measures bodyweight.

 

I have personal experience about gaining water. I once gained 10kg of it in a fairly short period.... getting up to about 122kg. Losing or gaining water is the fastest way to alter body weight.

 

It's quite important to distinguish between fat and bodyweight when you're making statements about how much fat you've lost.

 

You gained 30kg eating Nutella? If you combine the negative aspects of eating a ton of fat-sugary food with a drug such as DNP,  you must be in a very poor state of health. Did it never occur to you that there are healthier yet effective ways to remove body fat?

[poanoi]

with empirical data i mean, it was such a thrill watching my weight drop like a stone

so it came to the point i was making up reasons to go to 7/11 every day just to see how i lost yet another 0.5 kg every day. and i did check later on after i stopped DNP and i had not regained anything at all as i should have if it was about water.

 

yes, i know DNP isnt healthy, and sweating like that is anything but comfy,

once i finally get back to civilization i will never again touch sugar,

and i will be eating caviar & egg every day.

 

i have a speedy metabolism to boot btw, i estimate i eat 2-3 times as much as anyone else i know of. robblok estimated i eat 6500 calories a day

when i gave him my examples of what i usually eat

[norrska]

10 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

No. I merely confirmed that (1) any such examples would be completely irrelevant (so why would I bother looking for any?) and that (2) lots of relevant examples and informed opinions do exist and are easily found. You're free to prove to yourself and the world that there are no such Olympian examples if that's important to you, though I can't imagine why. Have you got anything useful to say on this topic?

Some people use elite targets as a reference or when pursuing achievements in life, such as when training.  I hope that was useful enough for you.

[norrska]

5 hours ago, poanoi said:

with empirical data i mean, it was such a thrill watching my weight drop like a stone

so it came to the point i was making up reasons to go to 7/11 every day just to see how i lost yet another 0.5 kg every day. and i did check later on after i stopped DNP and i had not regained anything at all as i should have if it was about water.

 

yes, i know DNP isnt healthy, and sweating like that is anything but comfy,

once i finally get back to civilization i will never again touch sugar,

and i will be eating caviar & egg every day.

 

i have a speedy metabolism to boot btw, i estimate i eat 2-3 times as much as anyone else i know of. robblok estimated i eat 6500 calories a day

when i gave him my examples of what i usually eat

Those scales can be wildly inaccurate and give a variety of different readings between different locations or even at same location.  Now if they also gave a free horoscope, I might be willing to invest the 1 baht required.

[poanoi]

1 hour ago, norrska said:

Those scales can be wildly inaccurate and give a variety of different readings between different locations or even at same location.  Now if they also gave a free horoscope, I might be willing to invest the 1 baht required.

i went to the same scale, and it was spot on, it never displayed variation,

not once, i have come to the conclusion those electronic scale are bliss,

while analog scales are shit, much the same as electronic watches are spot on vs the mechanical junk

[JSixpack]

44 minutes ago, poanoi said:

i went to the same scale, and it was spot on, it never displayed variation,

not once, i have come to the conclusion those electronic scale are bliss,

while analog scales are shit, much the same as electronic watches are spot on vs the mechanical junk

 

True. I threw out an old unreliable analog scale 'cause it was showing a few kilos underweight and put it carefully on display near the trash bin. 'Twas amazing how quickly the building's maids grabbed it.

 

Replaced w/ a good electronic (Lazada is your friend) and it's always spot on. 

[metisdead]

Keep them trolls a-trollin' troll posts have been removed. 

[adammike]

7 hours ago, norrska said:

Those scales can be wildly inaccurate and give a variety of different readings between different locations or even at same location.  Now if they also gave a free horoscope, I might be willing to invest the 1 baht required.

I use the one outside the supermarket food court in jomtien where you get the bus to Bangkok, it gives my weight with sandals,shirt,shorts,wallet and 2 pairs specs 75.8kg,and that is slowly going in the right direction,I am struggling with the daily 10km not sure I will be able to do it in the heat so if I get home slightly less than when I arrived that's a result.no booze or sugar.

[balo]

Interesting.  Can you provide one example of high performance athletes from international sport who use fasting before an event, such as the olympics, marathon, triathlon etc.?

 

I don't think the 5:2 or 6:1 program was meant for top athletes, they need a daily intake of calories to be able to compete and for the hard training.

But I believe Mosley and they did a lot of tests, just google and read the latest news about the program . This is for overweight and normal people. After the fasting day you can still do a long walk or light exercise, and you can still eat up to 500 calories in 24 hours of "fasting".

 

 

 

 

[norrska]

Just now, balo said:

 

I don't think the 5:2 or 6:1 program was meant for top athletes, they need a daily intake of calories to be able to compete anf for the hard training.
But I believe Mosley and they did a lot of tests, just google and read the latest news about the program . This is for overweigyt and normal people. After the fasting day you can still do a long walk or light exercise, and you can still eat up to 500 calories in 24 hours of "fasting".

Thank you,  The first sensible response!

[FracturedRabbit]

Another approach to  intermittent fasting is to fast up to and beyond 16 hours in a  day. I have a friend here who has his first meal at 1200 and the last at 1800, every day. He has eaten like this for more than a year and he says he feels great (certainly looks it). It helps if you are following a keto diet because then you don't feel hungry anyway!

 

Thomas de Lauer has some good videos on the topic

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheTdelauer/search?query=fasting

[dontoearth]

On 2/18/2018 at 3:37 AM, poanoi said:

with empirical data i mean, it was such a thrill watching my weight drop like a stone

so it came to the point i was making up reasons to go to 7/11 every day just to see how i lost yet another 0.5 kg every day. and i did check later on after i stopped DNP and i had not regained anything at all as i should have if it was about water.

 

yes, i know DNP isnt healthy, and sweating like that is anything but comfy,

once i finally get back to civilization i will never again touch sugar,

and i will be eating caviar & egg every day.

 

i have a speedy metabolism to boot btw, i estimate i eat 2-3 times as much as anyone else i know of. robblok estimated i eat 6500 calories a day

when i gave him my examples of what i usually eat

     You mean personal observation with some record keeping.   Do you measure your body fat?  I think most people here are thinking of empirical data as a full study with many participants and very careful measurements with rigorous guidelines.

       I have never heard of DNP but most weight loss drugs from the past like fenfen just killed people who used them.  The effects on the heart and circulatory system were fatal.  Have you measured your blood pressure and heart beat rate while using this chemical?

[dontoearth]

20 hours ago, JSixpack said:

 

True. I threw out an old unreliable analog scale 'cause it was showing a few kilos underweight and put it carefully on display near the trash bin. 'Twas amazing how quickly the building's maids grabbed it.

 

Replaced w/ a good electronic (Lazada is your friend) and it's always spot on. 

     Do you get additional measurements from the scale like body fat, muscle mass etc?  I find the one measurement on the old analog scale to be very unreliable.  It doesn't tell you if you are losing weight at the expense of muscle or holding steady while picking up lots of fat weight.  

[dontoearth]

On 2/17/2018 at 1:41 PM, tropo said:

Have a look up a few posts (#168) to see how effective an "eat less" or in other words a "portion control" diet can be if you have the patience. That was an 11.1% drop in body weight, all fat. Careful monitoring will keep the lost weight off. Without continuous monitoring it's like rowing without a paddle - it is essential if you want to maintain a weight goal. It's easy to make fine adjustments, but losing a large amount of fat that creeps on over the months take a big effort to lose again.

 

Don't confuse training first thing in the morning with training in a fasted state from not eating for 24 - 48 hours. There's a huge difference. I often train first thing. If I was doing you 5/2 diet (which I'll never do as portion control has always kept my body fat under control) I would most definitely not train on my 2 fasting days. I think you're confusing intermittent fasting with true fasting. I don't call a night's sleep a fast LOL> most people don't eat when they sleep.

     Intermittent fasting is a great way to start into a fasting program.  I use the skipping breakfast routine as my IF but often don't eat until 2 or even 4 pm.  This helps me get down to one meal a day.  

     I have been able to fast for a full day now without much discomfort.  I am thinking of a 2 or 3 day fast in the future because of some recent medical and science discoveries about fasting.  I am not sure when I will make that goal.

     I find portion control too difficult.  You are correct staying on it for life is the only way and as a result I ruled it out in my search for weight loss methods.

 

[poanoi]

53 minutes ago, dontoearth said:

     You mean personal observation with some record keeping.   Do you measure your body fat?  I think most people here are thinking of empirical data as a full study with many participants and very careful measurements with rigorous guidelines.

       I have never heard of DNP but most weight loss drugs from the past like fenfen just killed people who used them.  The effects on the heart and circulatory system were fatal.  Have you measured your blood pressure and heart beat rate while using this chemical?

DNP is popular among body builders because it doesnt affect muscles.

so it goes without saying its fat i'm losing.

i have done several rounds with DNP since its becoming too uncomfortable after 2 weeks,

(rash), and the scale and the effect of DNP was so consistent that if it were ever to not show

-0.5 kg if i were on DNP after 3 days, , it would be explained by me having to shit or piss and redo the test.

 

no, i dont do blood pressure and stuff like that, but i can tell i got totally exhausted by walking upstairs a few times, with seemingly no recover in sight.

 

the thing with DNP is that its effective dose isnt all that far away from mortal dose,

so reading up on the topic is a requirement, and so is precise doses, until

you are familiar with effects

[dontoearth]

On 2/17/2018 at 2:33 PM, JSixpack said:

 

Occasionally we have this silly, irrelevant standard brought up for some diet or another, usually by our old school starve-and-sweat gym rats. Nobody--nobody--coming to this forum for weight loss help is an elite athlete competing in the Olympics or running marathons and triathlons. Never have, never will. We're talking to fat people, mostly older fat people, whose main exercise has been reaching for the pizza, beer, and remote. In general they're hardly worried about losing muscle. What muscle? Elbow muscle? Let's not discourage them from a helpful method (maybe THE helpful method in their case) because an Olympic athlete might not benefit in the same way. Absurd.

 

Anyway, nothing to worry about re: IF even for the fat old fart. You can go google it for yourself:

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=5%3A2+diet+and+exercise+muscle+loss&gws_rd=cr&hl=en&num=30

 

And you'll find stuff like

 

Intermittent fasting was no better or no worse than continuous calorie restriction as a way to preserve muscle while dropping fat.

     --https://muscleevo.net/intermittent-fasting-muscle-loss/

     The message board usually goes thru endless near satanic possession when anyone mentions BMI because that doesn't apply to world class athletes either. 

    It is amazing that as an older overweight male I need to use training and nutrition programs that work on olympic athletes.  Oh wait!  I don't!  As I could not run miles everyday and an old stove up body could not play any of those sports EVER!  Just moving into the positions for figure skating or whatever other athletic performances we see at the professional level would probably break half my joints up for months.  

     I think back on my weight gain and I HATE PIZZA and did a fair amount of exercise and cardio.  It just didn't help as the weight packed itself on as I hit my late 50's and early 60's.  BTW, I was not aware of how toxic high glycemic simple carbs were to my body.  My friends and I thought fruit juices, oat meal and cereals and low fat yogurts were helping us and could not figure out the slow steady weight gains. My doctor and friends told me it was something to live with along with lots of metabolic prescription drugs for High blood pressure and cholesterol and was supposed to get ready for Type II diabetes.  I didn't think their advice was helpful.  I also think it is not true!  It does require much more effort at this point in life but their advice to relax and take the drugs was not what I wanted.

     Also I got rid of simple carbs high glycemic foods like breakfast cereal and I am sure people remember my trashing of oatmeal.  I found lots of food that was 'healthy' was just promoted by the industries and they had bought out professional groups and athletes to help spread the message.  An overweight friend asked if I used Gatorade!  OMG!  ROFL!  I am pretty immune to that today.  Don't need power bars either!  

      I got much more help here!  Along with lots of distracting advice.  That is the beauty of a message board.  You might think of it as a smorgasbord.   Take off the things you want!  Leave the rest!  Oh I know people are cringing at that description smorgasbord!  I just had too.  I don't know why? 

      Losing weight for me has really required very strenuous weight lifting a healthy dose of Cardio and some IF along with a list of banned foods.  Most are simple carbs taken out of my diet forever!   Pizza is one!  French fries and potato chips are also on the banned list.  Milk is a banned substance because of the AWFUL health side effects that show lots of major diseases linked to milk consumption.  Oh I know lots of athletes and stars wear the milk moustache but honestly they are just paid help!  OR paid something! 

      I been thinking I don't want cheat foods or to have cheat days as I try to move further down the scale and work on some more fat loss and muscle gain.  This mainly effects my friends who join me for cheat day and for them its just another feast but for me it is breaking lots of rules I have set up and don't really want to break.  And it seems to take days to get back into the grind and fight off hunger after pizza, pop corn, and other banned foods.  I had never noticed  how they fuel hunger until I started to research insulin and other topics after reading this board.

      Not sure how my friends are going to react as I reject cheat day activities.

       Does anyone else have thoughts on cheat days and friends that want their pizza, ice cream and cake being a drag on a healthy lifestyle?

     

[dontoearth]

10 minutes ago, poanoi said:

DNP is popular among body builders because it doesnt affect muscles.

so it goes without saying its fat i'm losing.

i have done several rounds with DNP since its becoming too uncomfortable after 2 weeks,

(rash), and the scale and the effect of DNP was so consistent that if it were ever to not show

-0.5 kg if i were on DNP after 3 days, , it would be explained by me having to shit or piss and redo the test.

 

no, i dont do blood pressure and stuff like that, but i can tell i got totally exhausted by walking upstairs a few times, with seemingly no recover in sight.

 

the thing with DNP is that its effective dose isnt all that far away from mortal dose,

so reading up on the topic is a requirement, and so is precise doses, until

you are familiar with effects

     Getting totally exhausted by walking upstairs a few times is a real indication of poor cardiovascular health.  You should get some blood pressure readings VERY SOON.

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

     Do you get additional measurements from the scale like body fat, muscle mass etc?  I find the one measurement on the old analog scale to be very unreliable.  It doesn't tell you if you are losing weight at the expense of muscle or holding steady while picking up lots of fat weight.  

 

No. I don't worry about that too much. After so many years of fitness I know about what's good for me. Losing a little muscle is the least of most dieters' worries.

[poanoi]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

     Getting totally exhausted by walking upstairs a few times is a real indication of poor cardiovascular health.  You should get some blood pressure readings VERY SOON.

nah...if you are on DNP its an indication not to increase dose,

its one of the effects, the most telling effect in my case, so much so that

i can from this effect alone assess if i should increase/decrease, or stay at current level of dose

[JSixpack]

1 hour ago, dontoearth said:

 It is amazing that as an older overweight male I need to use training and nutrition programs that work on olympic athletes.  Oh wait!  I don't!  As I could not run miles everyday and an old stove up body could not play any of those sports EVER!  Just moving into the positions for figure skating or whatever other athletic performances we see at the professional level would probably break half my joints up for months.

 

Right. Age, genetics, wear and tear, proper form, and common sense all play roles. Good news it's not necessary to achieve athletic fitness in order to be healthy.

 

Quote

 My friends and I thought fruit juices, oat meal and cereals and low fat yogurts were helping us and could not figure out the slow steady weight gains.

 

I like to joke how when I go back to the States I can't get to the full fat yogurt because of the obese ladies crowding in front of the shelf to get to the low fat yogurt.

 

Takes a while to discover your personal tolerance for carbs. Thing to do is lose the excess weight first then add some carbs back in as long as they're not hurting.

 

Quote

My doctor and friends told me it was something to live with along with lots of metabolic prescription drugs for High blood pressure and cholesterol and was supposed to get ready for Type II diabetes.  I didn't think their advice was helpful.  I also think it is not true!  It does require much more effort at this point in life but their advice to relax and take the drugs was not what I wanted.

 

Exactly. To hell w/ all those drugs consequent to metabolic syndrome. A friend of mine, borderline obese, was the world's worst cheapskate. I pointed out how he could save a ton of money by losing the weight, exercising in the pool (got him to join the Y but then he never went), and not needing the basket of meds and doc visits. He preferred the potato chips--they were worth it. In the end it was about more than just money as he died young, about 10 years ago.

 

Quote

      I got much more help here!  Along with lots of distracting advice.  That is the beauty of a message board. 

 

There are some good forums out there specializing in low-carb and IF w/ fellow practitioners and real experts. They're a source of knowledge and inspiration. Some good advice here, of course, but the signal/noise ratio is pretty low. Lot of nonsense.

 

Quote

Does anyone else have thoughts on cheat days and friends that want their pizza, ice cream and cake being a drag on a healthy lifestyle?    

 

Well, people should do what they have do w/i healthy limits to lose weight and get fit. You might do some research on carb refeeding.

 

[balo]

Well . I have started on the 6:1 program and my fasting started at 7 PM last night Sunday . And my next normal day will be Tuesday morning. 

 

To give you an idea of what a fasting day will look like for me here's today's program . 500 calories is the magic number and it's easy to find healthy meals low in calories , just after doing a search online. 

 

Breakfast up to 100 calories: a handful of nuts , in my case Brazil nuts. Or a 1 egg omelette with spinach. 

 

Lunch 170 calories : 500 grams of boiled potatoes, crushed and mixed with green onion, 1 juice of lemon, black pepper and one hard boiled egg 

 

Dinner 170-230 calories: fried egg noodles and vegetables (1 carrot, 125g broccoli, 1 red pepper, oyster mushrooms, 300g egg noodles, lime) 

 

In between I will drink a lot of fluid , mostly water and coffee. 

 

Also I will be in exercise mode the day after fasting , do some light exercise like bicycling , walking .  

 

For me Sunday evening until Tuesday morning will work just fine . Then normal food the rest of the days. 

 

 

 

 

 

[dontoearth]

35 minutes ago, balo said:

Well . I have started on the 6:1 program and my fasting started at 7 PM last night Sunday . And my next normal day will be Tuesday morning. 

 

To give you an idea of what a fasting day will look like for me here's today's program . 500 calories is the magic number and it's easy to find healthy meals low in calories , just after doing a search online. 

 

Breakfast up to 100 calories: a handful of nuts , in my case Brazil nuts. Or a 1 egg omelette with spinach. 

 

Lunch 170 calories : 500 grams of boiled potatoes, crushed and mixed with green onion, 1 juice of lemon, black pepper and one hard boiled egg 

 

Dinner 170-230 calories: fried egg noodles and vegetables (1 carrot, 125g broccoli, 1 red pepper, oyster mushrooms, 300g egg noodles, lime) 

 

In between I will drink a lot of fluid , mostly water and coffee. 

 

Also I will be in exercise mode the day after fasting , do some light exercise like bicycling , walking .  

 

For me Sunday evening until Tuesday morning will work just fine . Then normal food the rest of the days. 

 

 

 

 

 

    Good Luck on this.  It sounds very doable.   I would throw out the noodles in favor or a few more veggies or a small protein patty.   I have lots of hunger issues with bread, noodles, rice etc.  If it works for you tho' go ahead.  Let us know!  And good luck again.

 

[dontoearth]

3 hours ago, poanoi said:

nah...if you are on DNP its an indication not to increase dose,

its one of the effects, the most telling effect in my case, so much so that

i can from this effect alone assess if i should increase/decrease, or stay at current level of dose

    I will leave it up to you but it is also a sign that you have very high blood pressure and it would cost you zip to get a reading.  I do my own BP reading every morning painless and easy.  I did have the shortness of breath when I used the stairs which started me on weight loss and exercise and doing the daily BP reading.

    In fact in the US they would not dispense Viagara or Cialis if you had shortness of breath after using a few flights of stairs.  I know here "NO PROBLEM!"

[balo]

Regarding coffee, a cup of black coffee is 1 calorie, but I prefer a dash of milk in it and suddenly we have 15 calories. 4 cups daily would be 60 calories. No problem I will just adjust, maybe skimmed milk instead.  

[Naam]

1 hour ago, balo said:

Lunch 170 calories : 500 grams of boiled potatoes, crushed and mixed with green onion, 1 juice of lemon, black pepper and one hard boiled egg 

500g potatoes = 380 calories, 1 egg = 70 calories / total 450 calories.

[balo]

Sorry it was a typo , I meant 100 grams of boiled potato .....

 

You want to be careful here, they contain more calories than other veggies. 

 

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 2/16/2018 at 10:17 PM, tropo said:

Here's a successful "eating less" diet plan that worked for my wife. No particular foods were eliminated, but merely less of everything was eaten, including rice. The graph started a month earlier than depicted at 45kg. It was only 1kg per month, but still represents a loss of 11.1% of her bodyweight in total. The trick was using this app and inputting her weight every day to 0.1kg accuracy. This represents a pure fat loss as she held onto her muscle over this period through regular rowing and weight training. Daily measurements will continue to ensure her bodyweight remains at the goal weight of 40kg.

What is the name of the app you are using?

[ExpatOilWorker]

On 2/19/2018 at 9:05 AM, dontoearth said:

          Also I got rid of simple carbs high glycemic foods like breakfast cereal and I am sure people remember my trashing of oatmeal.  I found lots of food that was 'healthy' was just promoted by the industries and they had bought out professional groups and athletes to help spread the message.  An overweight friend asked if I used Gatorade!  OMG!  ROFL!  I am pretty immune to that today.  Don't need power bars either!       

 

In what way is oatmeal bad?

I always thought is was a very healthy breakfast cereal and had a reducing effect on cholesterol.