Expats -- one remaining bigotry?

[Laughing Gravy]

The quote was from one line and I commented on that./ No need to read the whole statement or interview. I disagree with it as you seem to with me. I am not calling you a bigot.

 

Thanks for the obvious. No offence taken.

I still say many people and politicians use the term bigot when someone disagrees with their opinion. The brexit vote is a classic example.

 

You do seem to suggest that your a fan of Mr. Clinton. Now if that is the case then my opinion of you has just gone down, although its your choice.

 

[elgordo38]

4 hours ago, kenk24 said:

USA - one remaining bigotry?

 

Racial relations, religious prejudices, lgbt rights... neo nazis, neo cons, conservative vs liberal, repubs vs democrats, rich vs poor, 

 

seems I can go on and on... 

Watch Jesse Ventura's latest video. Sorry don't have the link. I like and respect Jesse.

[elgordo38]

28 minutes ago, Jonathan Swift said:

 

You missed Clinton's entire point, and read into it an oversimplified and erroneous interpretation. Starting with his use of the term bigot in a way not normally used, in order to emphasize the problem of a country divided against itself, prejudiced and judgmental, neither side listening or trying to understand the other, or acknowledging that the world might be a lot bigger than either of their perspective. He was talking about Americans, the USA, me and my compadres. That's the mess we're in as a culture right now. And it's human nature for someone to prefer to be right rather than wrong, because being "right" validates someone, and being "wrong" is taken as  being flawed in some way. That is immaturity and lack of real confidence and self esteem. Confidence and respect are replaced by arrogance and hostility. . . It's emotions getting in the way of reason. So, as to to other people here who got their underwear in a bunch,  using your Webster dictionary to bludgeon Clinton for what you think is misuse or inappropriate use of a word shows a lack of understanding of the fluidity and adaptability of words and language. Words are defined by usage as much as by the rules. He is exactly correct and to the point, in a few well chosen words. I am a songwriter and lyricist by profession, language and meaning and expression with an economy of well chosen words are the tools of my trade. Clinton is a very skilled and effective communicator. He is using radical language in order to illustrate the problem, to hit people in the head with it, in order to make people recognize  the seriousness of the problem. Look in the mirror and see if the shoe fits, rather than react as though he insulted you personally. . There's no reason people can't speak from their perspective to another's, as long as you are willing to listen as much as talk, with an open mind, try to understand why that person sees things the way they do, and have the maturity to not think or respond with your emotions. If you listen you might learn something you didn't know, and you might find your views actually agreeing with the other person to one extent or another, or they yours, or you might both actually raise your awareness and capacity to understand and adapt. . unfortunately More often than not you find a case of intersecting monologues instead of a real conversation, , or worse, each person trying to yell louder than the other, shout down the other view, , as if being right is some kind of contest or blood sport that you "win". If someone wants to argue, walk away. It's not a discussion or conversation. It's a contest to that person and there is nothing to be gained. I would not engage in a conversation with half or more of the people who post here, because there is no common ground to base it on, and too many people reacting without thinking. As you Mr. Gravy just did, and I mean no offense, but thinking things through requires effort and discipline. . 

Is it the price of democracy or mismanagement? Read the stories to the right of the cartoonist who got fired and the girl that "quit" her job via posters. 

 

http://www.orrazz.com/2016/09/all-of-worlds-physical-currency-gold.html

[JJGreen]

3 words that have now lost all meaning and context.

 

1 Bigot

2. Racist

3 Xenophobe 

 

They are now used for nothing more than shutting down debate.

They are words which were missing from debates for too long

[JJGreen]

I avoid any nationality or person who I consider a zealot on politics or religion or immigration or role of gender, etcetera...
I don't mind views against mine...but zealotry and obstinance are conversation stranglers

[SgtRock]

4 hours ago, SgtRock said:

3 words that have now lost all meaning and context.

 

1 Bigot

2. Racist

3 Xenophobe 

 

They are now used for nothing more than shutting down debate.

 

10 minutes ago, JJGreen said:

 

They are words which were missing from debates for too long

 

 

Have you just awakened from a decade long medically induced coma ? It might also explain the rationale behind some of your other posts.

[Kwasaki]

Quote ..." Like if you're Australian for example, do you go out of your way to avoid hanging out with other Australians with very different views than you?.."  Unquote.

 

No l'm English l avoid hanging out with any alien who doesn't agree with me. 

[GreasyFingers]

5 hours ago, SgtRock said:

1 Bigot

2. Racist

3 Xenophobe 

 

You know me too well.

 

Never had a problem having a discussion/argument over a few beers at the bar. You win some, lose some but back up the next day to drink and talk with the same company. It is boring for those not arguing though.

[tifino]

 

one thing about the falang;

- he may be biased in many ways,

     - but it mostly doesn't matter to him what colour shirt you wear...

 

unless it's thai 

[DSJPC]

I for one welcome others with different conflicting opinions...it makes for livelier, more interesting conversations...

[Deepinthailand]

This has already been discussed here. In general expats don't want to talk to other xpats regardless of where they come from.

[DSJPC]

DeepinThailand doesn't know his ass from a hole in the ground!!!

[humqdpf]

I avoid those who are so insecure as to not be able to accept that they are not always right and that others may have views that are quite different from them.

 

Of my circle of friends, there are two, one is an avid theist, one is an avid atheist. I enjoy the company of both because they don't go on about that topic all the time and their discussions even about the existence of God are fascinating.

 

I have never found someone who agrees with all my views and tastes all the time. If I did, I would avoid them because we would have nothing to talk about

[Jingthing]

Because of specialized niche internet, news, and entertainment sources these days many people live in their own flavor of REALITY BUBBLE. Objective facts aren't what they used to be. Everyone can have their own filter to have their own facts. I think that's what Bill Clinton was talking about. Exposing yourself to people in other realty bubbles if you have a choice isn't what most people will choose. Of course he was specifically referring to Americans, who are so visibly DIVIDED (election time or not) ... but I was wondering if there was a similar thing going on with other nationalities.

 

Edited September 19, 2016 by Jingthing

[rogeroc]

8 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Some of the most aggravating people I have ever come across were people with "closed" minds,  Some of the most beautiful people I have come across were people with "open" minds....their humility (a word often misunderstood) was utterly refreshing.

    I once heard a man say ( and I had to take a good look at myself after hearing it) that..."He came to a point in his life where he seriously had to consider the possibility that most of the beliefs and principles he held in life up to that point....may have been totally wrong" .

     After looking closely at my own principles and beliefs I could see clearly that they were wholly influenced by my Father. He was a regimental man and could not bend on his principles. They were indeed very honourable ones....but so strict that it was hard to maintain a friendly relationship with other people....they always came up short.

 

Thank you for such a wise Post. I think there is a stage in life where you have to question and reassimilate everything you have been told / taught about what is right or wrong. The younger you can do this the better.

[212Roger]

I believe most people come to the realization that the longer they live in Thailand the less they want to "small talk" with their fellow ex-pat. 

[hawker9000]

22 hours ago, kenk24 said:

USA - one remaining bigotry?

 

Racial relations, religious prejudices, lgbt rights... neo nazis, neo cons, conservative vs liberal, repubs vs democrats, rich vs poor, 

 

seems I can go on and on... 

 

America-haters always can.   ..and on, and on, and on, and on, and on, ...  no doubt about it.

[dick dasterdly]

21 hours ago, JJGreen said:

I avoid any nationality or person who I consider a zealot on politics or religion or immigration or role of gender, etcetera...
I don't mind views against mine...but zealotry and obstinance are conversation stranglers

I too avoid people that have shown themselves to be zealots about various subjects, but don't particularly avoid nationalities - as I try not to stereotype people.

 

On the other hand, I'll be the first to admit that I'm a zealot about animal cruelty/corrupt governments and corporations etc. etc.  Consequently, I do my best to avoid those issues in conversation !

 

Another poster mentioned people that ignore any valid point made against their 'argument'  (i.e.. don't listen) - a particularly annoying trait IMO!  Although then again, I can be guilty too in the heat of the moment....., but think about it later and next time I meet them will admit that they were right about certain points.

[smotherb]

On 9/19/2016 at 0:15 PM, SgtRock said:

For a discussion to remain civil. Politics, Religion and Football must be avoided like a dose of the clap 

Anyone who cannot discuss any subject rationally and without getting mad, should simply sit in a corner and listen.

[amykat]

On 9/19/2016 at 0:39 PM, Jonathan Swift said:

 

You missed Clinton's entire point, and read into it an oversimplified and erroneous interpretation. Starting with his use of the term bigot in a way not normally used, in order to emphasize the problem of a country divided against itself, prejudiced and judgmental, neither side listening or trying to understand the other, or acknowledging that the world might be a lot bigger than either of their perspective. He was talking about Americans, the USA, me and my compadres. That's the mess we're in as a culture right now. And it's human nature for someone to prefer to be right rather than wrong, because being "right" validates someone, and being "wrong" is taken as  being flawed in some way. That is immaturity and lack of real confidence and self esteem. Confidence and respect are replaced by arrogance and hostility. . . It's emotions getting in the way of reason. So, as to to other people here who got their underwear in a bunch,  using your Webster dictionary to bludgeon Clinton for what you think is misuse or inappropriate use of a word shows a lack of understanding of the fluidity and adaptability of words and language. Words are defined by usage as much as by the rules. He is exactly correct and to the point, in a few well chosen words. I am a songwriter and lyricist by profession, language and meaning and expression with an economy of well chosen words are the tools of my trade. Clinton is a very skilled and effective communicator. He is using radical language in order to illustrate the problem, to hit people in the head with it, in order to make people recognize  the seriousness of the problem. Look in the mirror and see if the shoe fits, rather than react as though he insulted you personally. . There's no reason people can't speak from their perspective to another's, as long as you are willing to listen as much as talk, with an open mind, try to understand why that person sees things the way they do, and have the maturity to not think or respond with your emotions. If you listen you might learn something you didn't know, and you might find your views actually agreeing with the other person to one extent or another, or they yours, or you might both actually raise your awareness and capacity to understand and adapt. . unfortunately More often than not you find a case of intersecting monologues instead of a real conversation, , or worse, each person trying to yell louder than the other, shout down the other view, , as if being right is some kind of contest or blood sport that you "win". If someone wants to argue, walk away. It's not a discussion or conversation. It's a contest to that person and there is nothing to be gained. I would not engage in a conversation with half or more of the people who post here, because there is no common ground to base it on, and too many people reacting without thinking. As you Mr. Gravy just did, and I mean no offense, but thinking things through requires effort and discipline. . 

 

Great Post! Thanks for taking the time to write it!!

[joecoolfrog]

On Monday, September 19, 2016 at 3:17 AM, SgtRock said:

3 words that have now lost all meaning and context.

 

1 Bigot

2. Racist

3 Xenophobe 

 

They are now used for nothing more than shutting down debate.

I might well have agreed with you a few years ago but feel that the reverse is actually true now. Having lived through the Brexit dialogues I was shocked at the degree of 1,2 and 3 displayed , I really thought most of us Brits were better than that.

[StreetCowboy]

On 19 September 2016 at 5:59 PM, Jingthing said:

Because of specialized niche internet, news, and entertainment sources these days many people live in their own flavor of REALITY BUBBLE. Objective facts aren't what they used to be. Everyone can have their own filter to have their own facts. I think that's what Bill Clinton was talking about. Exposing yourself to people in other realty bubbles if you have a choice isn't what most people will choose. Of course he was specifically referring to Americans, who are so visibly DIVIDED (election time or not) ... but I was wondering if there was a similar thing going on with other nationalities.

 

Yes - look at the Brexit debate and vote

[The Dark Lord]

On 19/09/2016 at 10:52 AM, mesterm said:

 

Try discussing Islam with a Muslim.

Actually I did. He was/is a devout Muslim and the discussion went on for several weeks. My bigotry derived from living in Saudi was destroyed and I learned a great deal about the Muslim faith.

 

imagine my delight when on a visit back to the UK I asked my local vicar (CofE) what his thoughts were on the similarities and parallels between the Koran ( untranslated word of the Prophet Mohammed pbuh) and the many times translated and edited bible to be told there was no comparison and that the bible was correct.

 

My my daughter was christened in Stratford upon Avon and the Bish of Bath and Wells opened up his blah blah by telling all and sundry that there was a young couple in the congregation who lived in a godless society........

 

i nearly broke my neck searching for this couple until it dawned upon me that he was referring to my (then) wife and me. I took this clown to task after his sermon pointing out that in this so called godless society the vast majority go to pray to God ( the same one we pray to in the Christian faith) five times a day every day whereas in the UK he struggled to get less than 2% of the pop to turn up once a week. Which society was godless was my question.

 

one that he could not answer.

 

funny that isn't it?

[StreetCowboy]

7 hours ago, The Dark Lord said:

Actually I did. He was/is a devout Muslim and the discussion went on for several weeks. My bigotry derived from living in Saudi was destroyed and I learned a great deal about the Muslim faith.

 

imagine my delight when on a visit back to the UK I asked my local vicar (CofE) what his thoughts were on the similarities and parallels between the Koran ( untranslated word of the Prophet Mohammed pbuh) and the many times translated and edited bible to be told there was no comparison and that the bible was correct.

 

My my daughter was christened in Stratford upon Avon and the Bish of Bath and Wells opened up his blah blah by telling all and sundry that there was a young couple in the congregation who lived in a godless society........

 

i nearly broke my neck searching for this couple until it dawned upon me that he was referring to my (then) wife and me. I took this clown to task after his sermon pointing out that in this so called godless society the vast majority go to pray to God ( the same one we pray to in the Christian faith) five times a day every day whereas in the UK he struggled to get less than 2% of the pop to turn up once a week. Which society was godless was my question.

 

one that he could not answer.

 

funny that isn't it?

You're right that most Muslims treat their religion far more seriously than most so-called Christians.  

I was brought up a Christian, and while I can see the benefit of praying for guidance five times a day, tithing money to the poor, and fasting for solidarity with the starving, I don't do any of that.  However, I don't denigrate my Muslim brothers who do.