British migrant rights defender Andy Hall found guilty in a shock ruling by Bangkok court

[elgordo38]

39 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

I'm a little mystified why so many posters are outraged, when the headline indicates it was a shock ruling.   It seems to me that most were expecting that justice not be done, that is he would be found guilty (in their views), so why the outrage???

 

Reading TV posts, it seems that very few have any faith in the Thai justice system.  Why on earth would those people ever expect that he be found not guilty??

 

The world needs crusaders, but crusaders are little more than fools if they crusade where they know/believe that the justice system will not give them a fair hearing.

No likes on this one.

[Fookhaht]

Another poster boy lifted up to warn all other in-country foreigners to get with the program.  "Have we got your attention yet, Mr./Mrs./Ms._____________?" (fill in your name). 

Edited September 20, 2016 by Fookhaht

[Khun Han]

26 minutes ago, grumbleweed said:

Now the genie is out of the bottle. Give it a couple more hours and it'll be written in stone that Thaksin was the judge

 

Maybe not. But I'm fairly confident that a post involving the words "pastry boxes" will make an appearance at some point .

[Polonius]

Just now, joeyg said:

The Law is the Law.  Just sayin'

That isn't even the point. 

 

The law is a <deleted> stupid law used by a demonic jerk, who rather than respond he reacts, chasing Andy Hall personally instead of Finnwatch, using the Singapore-styled criminalised defamation laws of Thailand.  

The company is using some laws to benefit it while it us breaking just about every labour law on the books... Those Laws are the law too, lame person. 

Furthermore, it no doubt saw the experience of the two other companies cited in the report, Unicord and Thai Union Manufacturing, and ignored their good example of actually listening to the report, and taking action to right the wrongs raised by it. 

I think you should resign your membership of Thai Visa and stop commenting. 
 

[Bkk Brian]

No justice here. Not so long ago in the PhuketWan trial the judge set a precedent that the Computer Crime Acts should not be used in defamation cases. As a result they were found not guilty an honorable decision by the Phuket court.

 

This Bangkok court has different ideas and has convicted Andy Hall on defamation and computer crimes law on his defamation. Not only does  this make a mockery of the Phuket court judges statement but clearly shows that justice in Thailand is dished out inconsistently & unfairly with no set guidelines on sentences and the applicable laws.

 

Tragic decision for Thailand, SHAME on you.

[Gang Warily]

4 hours ago, jeca22 said:

Why not hire foreigners in other countries to write the stories? 

The Finnwatch report was written by foreigners in other countries

[FredNL]

Who can answer my question ???

How many foreigners (farang) ever won a case in Bangkok Criminal Court ???

 

I think that I already know the answer. None !!!

[Khun Han]

22 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Hopefully he will be able to find the 150K and leave Thailand.

 

Of course, this will probably result in him being even more vocal about various things .

 

I suppose one upside of him leaving Thailand is that he'll be able to talk freely about the Koh Tao murders case. Could get very interesting.

[pookiki]

Anyone who is familiar with Andy Hall's work will know that he is already embroiled in another labor abuse issue involving a Thai chicken processing company. No report involved in this issue, just the complaints of migrant workers.  The company in question has allegedly already gone out of business because it lost its contracts with  companies in the EU.  Expect more defamation cases against Andy both criminal and civil.

 

In this case, the migrant workers were charged with theft for removing their time cards from the company's premises to show the necessary proof of extremely long work hours and the company's failure to pay them all wages due under Thai law.

 

The fact of the matter is that migrant workers exist in a legal fantasy land in Thailand. But Thailand isn't the only country that abuses migrant workers. Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Dubai, and the list goes on. Just google the issue.  It is a global problem that needs a global solution. The only organization that has the necessary resources to protect migrant workers is the ILO. But their presence in any country would have to receive the government's approval and cooperation.

 

The basic question that must be asked is: How do migrant workers defend themselves from abuse and exploitation?  If they have no meaningful avenues of address, what needs to be done?  Supply chain issues are the biggest way to expose large western companies that do business with companies that abuse migrant labor or workers in general. The garment and construction industries are the biggest offenders in this regard.  The fishing industry provides some of the worst conditions.  There are a multitude of reports on the issue.  It is a matter of political will to provide workers with the basic protections under law or a human work environment.  Unfortunately, profits and greed come before people.  What will it take to change an economic system that is morally corrupt on so many fronts?  The struggle has been going on for decades. And this is what I say: Viva la huelga!

Edited September 20, 2016 by pookiki

[jesimps]

3 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

Unfortunately under this country's defamation laws, even if something is proven it's still defamation. Causing someone to lose face is considered more important than the offence originally committed.

 

Edited September 20, 2016 by jesimps

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts have been removed.  

 

An off topic post about Yiingluck's defamation case in the Four Season Hotel scandal has been removed, there is new topic running in the Thai news forum about that, please continue there. 

[anon467367354]

Seems like they got what they wanted, 150,000 baht and they don't have to incarcerate him.

Now he's free to leave which is what they probably really want.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Retiredandhappyhere said:

DiscoDan's faith in the Thai justice system is truly astounding!  Where has he been for the past few years?

 

I could tell you what he's been doing on this forum for the last year, but it'd get deleted.

[bark]

4 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

Agreed.

Let him try to do same thing in China, Vietnam. He got off lucky.

[richard_smith237]

4 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

 

Wrong - Deformation of Character Law suits in Thailand have little to do with Truth and evidence. 

 

Deformation of Character Law Suits concern only the intention of the accused to publicly defame and damage the reputation of the 'victim' regardless of how accurate the claim is. 

 

This is one of the highly flawed laws in Thailand which exemplifies everything negative in Thailand today. Powerful companies hide behind it, Powerful people use it as a weapon... This law alone gives power to those who should not hold it....  

 

In short, its a despicable Law which really should be removed for the sake of Thailand's development, freedoms and political maturity. 

[gdgbb]

2 hours ago, dick dasterdly said:

It will be interesting to see if/how the Brit. Embassy get involved.

 

They won't because they can't, their hands are tied.  Same with any court case in Thailand in which a Briton is found guilty, the embassy is not there to reverse a court's verdict. 

[dunroaming]

Pretty much as expected

[gdgbb]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

http://www.finnwatch.org/en/about-us

 

Hope those organisations and unions can put pressure on the Government of Finland to intervene. 

 

Why would the Finnsh government intervene (even if it could) in a case in Thailand involving a Briton, do you think Finland will offer one of Finnwatch as a sacrifice to take Hall's place?

Edited September 20, 2016 by gdgbb

[saminoz]

2 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

 

If someone makes claims about your company that makes you lose money or possibly lose all your customers  don't you think you should have a right to take them to court?

 

 If Andy Hall had hard evidence then he would of been found not guilty.

He wasn't prosecuted for the article, basically for the temerity of contributing to it.

Were you not following, or are you just dense?

Typical apologist "defend first, think later (or never) behaviour.

[SOTIRIOS]

...civilization....and justice....2 things that don't appear to exist here.....

 

...just pretend.....

[IAMHERE]

BEWARE

I googled ' Natural Fruit Company Ltd '

caught a virus when I went to there website;

McAfee quarantined it   ;   iFrame something or another.

 

[Deepinthailand]

Good another bloody tree hugging do gooder bites the bullet. They should deport him now.

[Mook23]

Cannot! Farlang him must only suhpend money here and pay thai wife. Him shut up. No have right to complain thai company. Farlang him no undaaaaahstand thai customs/system. Bpama happy here. Make big money. Send home to family. Bpama him have work here. in communit (sic) homecountry him poor. Very very!

[SOTIRIOS]

....1.5 million foreigners living here....

 

...wonder what percent have been duped by their wives...then slandered to assure cases and claims against them....

 

...no justice for them.....

 

***

 

...and now grand scale abuse and exploitation....

 

...which adds up to unfair trade practices.....

 

..will the rest of the world speak up.....ever.....???

 

 

[Mook23]

6 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

...civilization....and justice....2 things that don't appear to exist here.....

 

...just pretend.....

 

BA-NA-NA RE-PU-BLIC!!

but Chinese master approves so the thai rulers couldn't care less. The farang way of doing things has proven useless anyway. Im serious and not sarcastic about the latter...

[impulse]

1 hour ago, pookiki said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_defamation_law

 

I was wrong there are 17 states not 14 that still have criminal defamation laws on the books.

 

I think you missed this one subtle difference in your own link:

 

Truth is an absolute defense against defamation in the United States,[1] meaning true statements cannot be defamatory.[2]

[oldsailor35]

3 hours ago, DiscoDan said:

Yes for example if there was child Labour and he fitted up one of the workers with a hidden camera and managed to get footage of it, that would be hard for the judges to ignore.

 

 

DD.  Are you a troll or have you just arrived here.

[daveAustin]

Morally, this is the kind of tripe that keeps Thailand firmly in third world status. Sad and embarrassing. It's 2016, yet still no sign of coming out of puberty.

[awayego]

Sadly, Andy Hall is not the only farang being pilloried by the Thai 'justice system'.

I'm sure, like me, many TV members can think of at least  one other high profile case where the so-called 'justice system' in Thailand is being used and abused by the very people the system should be putting away.

No, the verdict doesn't come as a surprise - it is yet another example of the many injustices in this UNcivilised society rubber stamped by a government without any mandate or sense of decency.

Just how long can this go on in a world of mass social interaction through the internet?

Even if Thailand buries its head in the sands of internet isolation, it surely must pay the price eventually.

[Mook23]

9 minutes ago, SOTIRIOS said:

....1.5 million foreigners living here....

 

...wonder what percent have been duped by their wives...then slandered to assure cases and claims against them....

 

...no justice for them.....

 

***

 

...and now grand scale abuse and exploitation....

 

...which adds up to unfair trade practices.....

 

..will the rest of the world speak up.....ever.....???

 

 

Rest of world? Lol. Most nations dont give a flying duck about thailand. Where i currently live thailand is only known for small restaurants laundering money and massage shops where north africans go to get something cheap they cannot get at home....and its not a foot massage 555....