not allowed to leave country

[boomerangutang]

I went with American friend to northernmost Thai border with Burma; Mae Sai/Tachilek.  Thai Imm officials wouldn't let him leave Thailand. He was at the 29th day of a 30-day visa-on-arrival from coming in at Suwanboom, Bkk.  He had no renewals.  Is that legal for Thai imm to forbid a person with a legal visa to leave the country?   He was compelled to go to a Thai Imm office 2 days later and pay Bt.1,900 for a 30-day extension.   

 

Stories like this will get around, and will inhibit visitors from coming to visit Thailand.  Thai Imm keeps tightening the screws, and Thailand will be the worse for it.  The Imm Dept makes Bt.1,900 baht for each farang they cheat, but they will be losing millions of baht when travelers bypass Thailand to visit countries which are fair-minded, .....countries which honor their visa parameters.   30 days = 30 days.   ....but not in Thailand.  ....not when there are some baht to be made by twisting the rules.

[ubonjoe]

Nothing new. It has been reported several times that Mae Sai will not allow a crossing unless you have a valid Thai visa for re-entry to the country. No crossings are allowed for a new visa exempt entry (it is not a visa on arrival).

Mae Sot has the same rule. Ranong is the only crossing to Myanmar that allows it.

[billd766]

AFAIK when you leave Thailand, and unless you do have a re-entry permit, then your current visa is cancelled. Once you leave Thailand for Laos, Burma etc you are in no mans land. If the Immigration officers on the other side won't let you in and you have to return to Thailand you actually have NO visa and therefore become an illegal.

 

It does not matter if you are on day 1, 5, 10 or 29 of your visa. What your American friend should have done is paid the 1,900 baht at an Immigration office in Thailand and save all the grief that he went through and bought a re-entry permit at the same time.

 

Thailand is merely enforcing the rules that have been around for years and ignored by so many tourists and Immigration staff until recently.

 

Your friend got a 30 day on arrival entry and presumably wanted to extend it by a further 30 day by doing a border run.

 

It may have been easier to have applied for a 60 day SETV back in the USA to begin with.

[BritTim]

27 minutes ago, billd766 said:

AFAIK when you leave Thailand, and unless you do have a re-entry permit, then your current visa is cancelled. Once you leave Thailand for Laos, Burma etc you are in no mans land. If the Immigration officers on the other side won't let you in and you have to return to Thailand you actually have NO visa and therefore become an illegal.

 

It does not matter if you are on day 1, 5, 10 or 29 of your visa. What your American friend should have done is paid the 1,900 baht at an Immigration office in Thailand and save all the grief that he went through and bought a re-entry permit at the same time.

 

Thailand is merely enforcing the rules that have been around for years and ignored by so many tourists and Immigration staff until recently.

 

Your friend got a 30 day on arrival entry and presumably wanted to extend it by a further 30 day by doing a border run.

 

It may have been easier to have applied for a 60 day SETV back in the USA to begin with.

 

When leaving Thailand, your current permission to stay ends unless you have a re-entry permit. On entry into Thailand, unless you have a valid visa or re-entry permit, you may be entitled to a visa exempt entry. Most entry points will allow this if you have none, or only a few, prior visa exempt entries. The exception is the land border with Myanmar where most entry points (exception Ranong) do not allow in/out entries to get a new visa exempt entry.

 

If allowed to leave, and the other country will not let you in, you return to Thailand and your exit stamp is canceled. You are not automatically illegal, unless you were on overstay before your attempted exit.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 Is that legal for Thai imm to forbid a person with a legal visa to leave the country?

Yes, because out/in visa exempt entries are not allowed at that border. If he had a visa for Myanmar he would have been able to leave, but without one he has nowhere to go.

 

5 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

Stories like this will get around, and will inhibit visitors from coming to visit Thailand.  Thai Imm keeps tightening the screws, and Thailand will be the worse for it.  The Imm Dept makes Bt.1,900 baht for each farang they cheat, but they will be losing millions of baht when travelers bypass Thailand to visit countries which are fair-minded, .....countries which honor their visa parameters.   30 days = 30 days.   ....but not in Thailand.  ....not when there are some baht to be made by twisting the rules

Your friend was given permission to stay for 30 days and has to leave the country or apply for an extension on or before day 30. Having decided to leave the country he should have checked that the border he was using allowed it. His fault and nothing to do with people making money or twisting the rules. In fact it probably stops people making money. An extension of stay is a choice so how is anyone being cheated! 

 

You are complaining and making ridiculous claims based on your own ignorance.

[boomerangutang]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Nothing new. It has been reported several times that Mae Sai will not allow a crossing unless you have a valid Thai visa for re-entry to the country. No crossings are allowed for a new visa exempt entry (it is not a visa on arrival).

Mae Sot has the same rule. Ranong is the only crossing to Myanmar that allows it.

 

So Ranong allows reasonable departure and re-entry, but other crossings don't.  You are confirming how inconsistent Thai Imm laws are and how subjectively they're enforced. 

 

7 hours ago, billd766 said:

AFAIK when you leave Thailand, and unless you do have a re-entry permit, then your current visa is cancelled. Once you leave Thailand for Laos, Burma etc you are in no mans land. If the Immigration officers on the other side won't let you in and you have to return to Thailand you actually have NO visa and therefore become an illegal.

 

It does not matter if you are on day 1, 5, 10 or 29 of your visa. What your American friend should have done is paid the 1,900 baht at an Immigration office in Thailand and save all the grief that he went through and bought a re-entry permit at the same time.

 

Thailand is merely enforcing the rules that have been around for years and ignored by so many tourists and Immigration staff until recently.

 

Your friend got a 30 day on arrival entry and presumably wanted to extend it by a further 30 day by doing a border run.

 

It may have been easier to have applied for a 60 day SETV back in the USA to begin with.

 

The number of days do matter.  I've found from trial and error that if a farang (who doesn't look bedragled and/or has an attractive hi-so Thai person with him/her) can leave up to the 15th day of a 30-day visa-on-arrival - and get a 2 week stay.  I did it 11 months ago.  If I had done it after the 15th day, I would have been subject to the same subjective & unfair rigamarole as my friend experienced the other day.

 

Just because ding dongs make ridiculous rules in Bkk, doesn't mean we have to do double back flips to try to justify them. Similarly, just because the Imm rules are subjectively meted out, doesn't mean the brown-nosers among us have to smile and try to justify it all.  Show some spine.  If you see BS, call it BS.   I do.   Several times, I've called Thai officials on their BS, and more often than not I prevail.  It happened the other day when 3 (count 'em; 1,2,3) uniformed male border guards stood and put their hands out toward me as I approached the border crossing, in the "STOP" mudra - and all 3 told me I couldn't go across the border into Burma.  If I was a meek ass-kisser like so many on T.Visa, I would have simply turned around in defeat.  I didn't.  I contested their BS. They continued to tell me I couldn't cross.  I stood my ground.  One looked at my passport and realized that I could actually cross.   They all lost face.   One accompanied me to the window and told the Imm official inside what a dick I was, in Thai language, thinking I didn't understand.   I was 100% gentlemanly before during and after the mini-incident.   

 

I've long given up on Thai Imm officials being able to make fair rules.  But at least they should fairly enforce the gordian knot rules that they're handed from Bkk.  That's all I ask.  

[Maestro]

It is not legal for an immigration officer to stop a foreigner from leaving Thailand unless there is an arrest warrant out for the foreigner.

 

It is legal for an immigration officer to deny a foreigner entry into Thailand for specific reasons.

 

There is no legal requirement for an immigration officer to inform a foreigner upon his departure from Thailand that he will not be allowed entry into Thailand at the same border post on the same day or within a short period, but it is not illegal for the immigration officer to give the foreigner this advance information.

[BritTim]

26 minutes ago, Maestro said:

It is not legal for an immigration officer to stop a foreigner from leaving Thailand unless there is an arrest warrant out for the foreigner.

 

It is legal for an immigration officer to deny a foreigner entry into Thailand for specific reasons.

 

There is no legal requirement for an immigration officer to inform a foreigner upon his departure from Thailand that he will not be allowed entry into Thailand at the same border post on the same day or within a short period, but it is not illegal for the immigration officer to give the foreigner this advance information.

 

Further, if the immigration officer knows that the traveler cannot enter the other country (except temporarily on a border pass) he is within his rights to deny exit. This is because the exit stamp would anyway need to be canceled when (as is known) entry to the other country is denied.

[boomerangutang]

5 hours ago, Maestro said:

It is not legal for an immigration officer to stop a foreigner from leaving Thailand unless there is an arrest warrant out for the foreigner.

 

It is legal for an immigration officer to deny a foreigner entry into Thailand for specific reasons.

 

There is no legal requirement for an immigration officer to inform a foreigner upon his departure from Thailand that he will not be allowed entry into Thailand at the same border post on the same day or within a short period, but it is not illegal for the immigration officer to give the foreigner this advance information.

 

Thanks for that.  Yet it proves what a gordian knot Thai Imm weaves.  The whole mess of lumpy gravy could be cleared up if clear-thinking (and non-paranoid, non-xenophobic) people were in charge of making and enforcing the rules.   

[maewang99]

I missing it.  how can anyone dump on Immigration over this?  if a fellow knows he has the right, under Thai laws, to both leave and then return.... he can take it.  but can you imagine.... you walk into Myanmar on foot... and you cannot come back into Thailand? why would anyone dump on Immigration to prevent someone from stepping out and not being able to step back in? we're talking Myanmar... on foot.

Edited September 21, 2016 by maewang99

[OMGImInPattaya]

Not a very believable story...aspiring novelist? Denying someone their right to travel would be against international law...maybe take it up with your embassy or the UN if you feel you were wronged.

Edited September 21, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[arithai12]

41 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

Thanks for that.  Yet it proves what a gordian knot Thai Imm weaves.  The whole mess of lumpy gravy could be cleared up if clear-thinking (and non-paranoid, non-xenophobic) people were in charge of making and enforcing the rules.   

I realize that Thai bashing is a popular activity on this forum, however if your american friend really needs some consolation I could tell a number of more extreme cases of harassment and utter stupidity by US immigration officers.

[IMA_FARANG]

Asother posters have pointed out, there is no such thing as a 30 day "visa on arrival".

Iin facr what he first had was a "visa exempt entry" which is a privaledge given to certain coutries by a bi-lateral agreement with the Thailnd immigration and those certain countries.

For that reason when he entered Thailand he had no true visa.

Since August 2015 he could have gone to Thai immigration, and got one more 30 day stay in Thailand by paying the standatd 1900 Bahr fee.

In fact, since he probably did not have an exit ticket within 30 days of when he first entered Thailan, Thai immigration was within the tules for not allowing him to enter Thailand in the first place.

Bit they let him enter even though the could have  refuseed him originally beccause he ws in violation of the entry rules by not having an exit teicket from thailand within 30 days after arrival,

if he had just gone to immigration within that first 30 days,and  paid the standard 1900 Baht fee, he could have got anther 30 dys stay then.

he was lucky that they didn't crge him overstay for yhe 28 days he stayed in  Thailand without a valid visa as they could have charged him wirh a 500 baht fune for eac of those 28 days he stayed in Thaukand with no legal visa.

[bluesofa]

1 hour ago, boomerangutang said:

 

Thanks for that.  Yet it proves what a gordian knot Thai Imm weaves.  The whole mess of lumpy gravy could be cleared up if clear-thinking (and non-paranoid, non-xenophobic) people were in charge of making and enforcing the rules.   

 

Isn't "clear-thinking" and "in charge" an oxymoron, irrespective of where in the world it refers to?

 

[Don Mega]

1 hour ago, IMA_FARANG said:

Asother posters have pointed out, there is no such thing as a 30 day "visa on arrival".

Iin facr what he first had was a "visa exempt entry" which is a privaledge given to certain coutries by a bi-lateral agreement with the Thailnd immigration and those certain countries.

For that reason when he entered Thailand he had no true visa.

Since August 2015 he could have gone to Thai immigration, and got one more 30 day stay in Thailand by paying the standatd 1900 Bahr fee.

In fact, since he probably did not have an exit ticket within 30 days of when he first entered Thailan, Thai immigration was within the tules for not allowing him to enter Thailand in the first place.

Bit they let him enter even though the could have  refuseed him originally beccause he ws in violation of the entry rules by not having an exit teicket from thailand within 30 days after arrival,

if he had just gone to immigration within that first 30 days,and  paid the standard 1900 Baht fee, he could have got anther 30 dys stay then.

he was lucky that they didn't crge him overstay for yhe 28 days he stayed in  Thailand without a valid visa as they could have charged him wirh a 500 baht fune for eac of those 28 days he stayed in Thaukand with no legal visa.

 

What a load of dribble.

you should not reply to threads like these.

[Thaidream]

Apparently the issue is that unless a foreigner has a Burmese Visa  or a Thai re-entry permit- the Burmese officials will not stamp the person into Burma and then out and back to Thailand thus supposedly leaving the foreigner in a 'no man's land' between the 2 countries. The exception appears to be Ranong but I have no idea why.  Logic would seem to be that it is all the same either you can go and come back or you can't go. I would agree that at times the Thai Immigration enforcement of certain regulations is very inconsistent and without logic and depends on the IO at the time. Glad we have Thai Visa to keep us informed of the current whims.

[billd766]

23 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

 

So Ranong allows reasonable departure and re-entry, but other crossings don't.  You are confirming how inconsistent Thai Imm laws are and how subjectively they're enforced. 

 

 

The number of days do matter.  I've found from trial and error that if a farang (who doesn't look bedragled and/or has an attractive hi-so Thai person with him/her) can leave up to the 15th day of a 30-day visa-on-arrival - and get a 2 week stay.  I did it 11 months ago.  If I had done it after the 15th day, I would have been subject to the same subjective & unfair rigamarole as my friend experienced the other day.

 

Just because ding dongs make ridiculous rules in Bkk, doesn't mean we have to do double back flips to try to justify them. Similarly, just because the Imm rules are subjectively meted out, doesn't mean the brown-nosers among us have to smile and try to justify it all.  Show some spine.  If you see BS, call it BS.   I do.   Several times, I've called Thai officials on their BS, and more often than not I prevail.  It happened the other day when 3 (count 'em; 1,2,3) uniformed male border guards stood and put their hands out toward me as I approached the border crossing, in the "STOP" mudra - and all 3 told me I couldn't go across the border into Burma.  If I was a meek ass-kisser like so many on T.Visa, I would have simply turned around in defeat.  I didn't.  I contested their BS. They continued to tell me I couldn't cross.  I stood my ground.  One looked at my passport and realized that I could actually cross.   They all lost face.   One accompanied me to the window and told the Imm official inside what a dick I was, in Thai language, thinking I didn't understand.   I was 100% gentlemanly before during and after the mini-incident.   

 

I've long given up on Thai Imm officials being able to make fair rules.  But at least they should fairly enforce the gordian knot rules that they're handed from Bkk.  That's all I ask.  

 

TBH I have been on a retirement extension since 2009 and have never left Thailand since I got it and back in them old times the rules were there but rarely enforced.

 

Now they are and if you can comply with them there should be no problem. It is when you don't know or understand the rules that the problems really start.

[elviajero]

On 20,September, 2016 at 3:39 PM, boomerangutang said:

The number of days do matter.  I've found from trial and error that if a farang (who doesn't look bedragled and/or has an attractive hi-so Thai person with him/her) can leave up to the 15th day of a 30-day visa-on-arrival - and get a 2 week stay.  I did it 11 months ago.  If I had done it after the 15th day, I would have been subject to the same subjective & unfair rigamarole as my friend experienced the other day.

Anyone can leave after 15 days of the 30 at most border crossings. On exit the 30 days is cancelled, always. On re-entry most nationalities get 15 days and G7 nationals get 30. You were simply granted 15 days because you qualified, and it had nothing to do with your appearance, or an attractive hi-so Thai, or it being before the 15th day! 

[stevenl]

14 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Apparently the issue is that unless a foreigner has a Burmese Visa  or a Thai re-entry permit- the Burmese officials will not stamp the person into Burma and then out and back to Thailand thus supposedly leaving the foreigner in a 'no man's land' between the 2 countries. The exception appears to be Ranong but I have no idea why.  Logic would seem to be that it is all the same either you can go and come back or you can't go. I would agree that at times the Thai Immigration enforcement of certain regulations is very inconsistent and without logic and depends on the IO at the time. Glad we have Thai Visa to keep us informed of the current whims.

The exception is Ranong because they will let the foreigner re-enter.

[JackThompson]

27 minutes ago, stevenl said:

The exception is Ranong because they will let the foreigner re-enter.

 

This is likely because a traveler with a Myanmar border-pass can do more than visit a border-market in the area of Myanmar adjacent to Ranong.  IOW, a tourist traveling in the area might leave Thailand, go on an island tour and/or stay at a resort, then come back to Thailand for more travel, etc.  This is consistent with the restrictions and purpose of the 30-day Visa Exempt entry.

 

As another pointed out, if one has a Myanmar Visa, one can leave at any of the border-posts, because onward-travel within Myanmar would then be possible. 

 

I assume if one purchased a re-entry permit, they could also leave at the other border-posts and re-enter, with no additional days added to their original 'permission of stay'.  For most, this would defeat the purpose of "going to nowhere" for a few hours.  Although Thai-Immigration could set up "re-entry permit" processing at Mayanmar crossings, I doubt there would be much demand for them.

 

Those wishing to stay here for longer periods, and who do not qualify for other visas, are best served by obtaining Tourist Visas - and will have problems if attempting to use Visa Exempts for this purpose.

Edited September 22, 2016 by JackThompson

[visarunner]

On 21/09/2016 at 2:56 AM, Maestro said:

It is not legal for an immigration officer to stop a foreigner from leaving Thailand unless there is an arrest warrant out for the foreigner.

 

It is legal for an immigration officer to deny a foreigner entry into Thailand for specific reasons.

 

There is no legal requirement for an immigration officer to inform a foreigner upon his departure from Thailand that he will not be allowed entry into Thailand at the same border post on the same day or within a short period, but it is not illegal for the immigration officer to give the foreigner this advance information.

wrong, in cases of people who are having  not cancelled extension of stay under Non B, Non O or Non ED visa, Thai Immigration have all rights to stop that person from leaving. They can request that person to prove that they have been doing their work, study as per their original intention. If IO is not satiesfied they request that person to go to Headquarter and have the extension of stay cancelled. This occurs many times.   

[ubonjoe]

I am closing this topic since I can see it going no where but downhill after removing a defamatory post.

Topic