Total Immersion – An Expats View after 10 years in Thailand

[webfact]

Total Immersion – An Expats View after 10 years in Thailand

Written by Bryan Flowers – Author bio below

 

 

I thought I would write some thoughts about what I have learnt in the last ten years (continously) living in Pattaya, Thailand. Sorry about my grammar or spellings but I enjoy writing and I dont enjoy correcting stuff.

 

I moved here when I was 25, so it was probably easier for me to adapt and survive than a guy much older, but it really depends on the person also. Plenty of older guys that don’t resist change and thrive here. What I am saying in my opinion, is the faster you change and adapt to live like a Thai, the more chance you will settle in, stay and thrive here. If you look at the unhappy guys, they are living in a bubble, hanging out with fellow country men, eating farang food, moaning about Thais and life in general. Whereas the happier guys seem to be the ones you see eating Thai food on the floor with other Thais, they have adapted and are going with the flow.

 

One of my goals moving here was to make money and be happy, something I couldn’t do in the UK, I was unhappy there. Mostly due to not being able to find attractive skinny women that wanted me. I didnt want to settle for anything. After hearing and reading many stories, I decided if I want to live here long term, I need to have a girlfriend, I’ve had them since I was 14 and I am lost without one, I just need that one person behind me and to keep us away from bad vices.

 

Everyday I woke up from a bad dream, that I had to go back to the UK, it got me up and working, it drove me to work, I also had no money and no other choice, if I came here with a nest egg, I probably would have blown it eventually like most other guys seem to.

 

In my quest for happiness and peace I figured a few things out quickly, I will use driving as an example, I am a very polite English driver, who queues and give way fairly and I often let people cross the road or pull out. But I was getting very angry at getting cut up and people driving arrogantly. If you change your behavior and drive very aggressively, you will get angry much less. In fact it depends where I am or how heavy the traffic is but often I end up driving aggressively, but I still try and have manners when not many cars around. Most guys bitch about driving here and avoid it, but if you learn, experience and adapt its another thing ticked off.

 

Another issue is face, farangs take a while to understand it and it still catches me out, often I am left surprised at face issue… we recently had a bar owner next door that lost face cuz one of our girls insulted her, so in return she embarrassed herself and did things to make us all angry, so I guess sometimes they think revenge gets them face, but in fact it looses it, some of the better Thais would keep quiet and talk privately to the boss. Lots of westerners complain when farang start getting concerned about loss of face, but when you live here you need to adapt, “face” makes society behave, it underpins everything, it often makes westerners very angry when they don’t understand it, many buildings are empty in Pattaya because the landlord doesn’t want to lose face and reduce their rent. I think the farang that start thinking about there own face are guys that will thrive here, because they are going with the flow instead of against it.

 

Learn the Language

 

Language is one of the biggest causes of arguments, conflicts in relationships, business and daily life. Not only that you become less efficient as a human and not reaching your potential here, you miss out of the ways Thai think, to really know what they are like, you need to learn their language, it does really teach you about their culture. Once your language skills take off, you have more understanding, therefore less things to get mad about. For instance Thais often say “wait 5 minutes” they translate this to our language and we take it as accurate approximation, otherwise they would have said 10 or 20 minutes right? Well they say 5 minutes to anything, so it could be 30 minutes lol But now I understand that I can deal with it by doing some work on my phone or going away and coming back. There are too many benefits to list from learning the language of the country you stay in and you often underestimate it until you start learning but if you want a better chance of happiness and satisfaction here, its better to talk to the locals and you will find a lot better prices around and maybe people that can help you. Plenty of Thais are more capable of helping us than most farang here, so its good to befriend them. I am currently learning Thai 28 hours per week again, reading and writing in part of my quest for total immersion. There is a whole new world opening up for me right now and you sure get Thais being a lot friendlier with you and nicer.

 

Understanding Lateness

 

Lateness, it was explained to me why Thais are always late. When there is a 9 am meeting at city call, no one turns up til 9.45 or 10 am, this system works very well if everyone is late, but when us punctual farang turn up on time, we are creating the problem, if only we just came late also, then we wouldn’t be sitting there seething lol.

 

Eat Thai Food

 

Thai food – This was the biggest thing for me to battle, I ate some Thai food in the last 10 years but not much, then I eat mostly farang food and I waste 1000 baht per day easily, when I should be eating like a local. (lots of money wasted) I don’t give my kid farang food as it will be an expensive burden for the rest of his life. Its only the last two months, where I have been seeking total immersion, I’ve been in the markets eating the ready cooked cold meals, (its tough getting used to eat meals that have been sitting around for hours at room temp, we are used to getting them served hot) But it makes sense not to eat hot food in a hot climate. I even started eating see food and spicy stuff. I am slowly getting used to it, but suddenly I have many more places to eat and everything is so more convenient and I am not a burden when I’m out and about and I need to eat. I was at the high courts a few weeks ago and I was happy to eat cold spicy chicken slops, whereas other times I would go without food. I have promised my wife I will try som tam and durian in my quest for total immersion.

 

Corruption

 

Corruption, this is a world where most of us don’t understand, I have a deep knowledge of how things work compare to others and I still don’t know much. I see some people moaning about corruption, then are happy to pay a bribe when they do something bad. Its better to accept it than complain. Sometimes it works in our favour, sometimes it doesn’t. I have seen many cases where police are paid off and it angers me slightly, but I don’t say anything cuz one day I might get into a fight and I will need the same services,

 

I keep talking about total immersion throughout my text, but I feel that is the best way to learn Thai language and to be happy here. Now I am eating Thai food, I have more opportunities to practice Thai language. Before anyone says it, I think there are guys here happy and stay in there bubble and heavily relies on there wife’s, but its not a good long term solution, I will have another 30-40 years living here, so the faster I adapt and sink in, the better I will thrive financially and with happiness, it feels good not needing my wife to translate everything and help me. It makes me feel like a man again going out and doing difficult tasks alone. I also feel that Thais miss out of our personalities and the only real way to let it shine is by communication fluently.

 

Acclimatise!

 

Air-con – if you can sleep with no air-con at night your life will become a lot easier, I don’t care that people say we cant acclimatise, I strongly believe we can, we just need to avoid cold for long periods, no air con at night is a big help, it will also save money that is wasted across the years. Right now I have started the no air con thing at home, its not easy but I am doing it cuz I go to school soon and I need to wear trousers and shirt and I don’t want to sweat like a rapist on trial. A lot of smokers blame there respiratory problems on air con (couldn’t possibly be the smoking lol) but either way air-con is probably not a good thing for you, especially if no one cleans the filters. Next step I will try is no air-con in the car sometimes and I do saunas and keep fit. (helps a lot)

 

Budgeting

 

Budgeting – recently I gave myself a silly challenge of budgeting 750 baht per day which is impossible with someone in my position, that drives around all day and has meetings and many bills and stuff to pay for, but at least I get free food in my restaurant and free drinks in my bars. One of the good things about budgeting is that it rocks your world and suddenly you are finding new things, I didn’t walk anywhere before and I hadn’t used a baht bus for 4 years. It also forces us to do things like Thai people do (we went to children s discovery museum in Bangkok) its free and never would have gone, my kid had a great time. It also makes me eat Thai food and do other Thai things.

 

Buddhism

 

Buddhism, as Thais are Buddhist its great to understand the way it works and you get a better idea about Thai people and culture. I have often thought about being a monk for a month, just for the experience and to practice Thai, but at the same time I don’t want to be fake, I believe in their concepts but I don’t believe in a god, especially as more and more technical advances come around. I do want to learn and experience more, so I will leave that idea on a back burner.

 

Muay Thai

 

Muay Thai – I do muay Thai 5 times per week and boxing. Muay thai is a great chance for me to learn about Thai things and practice my Thai daily. Its the ultimate immersion, after you have sparred with some Thai guys, they treat you like brothers and other Thais love us learning Muay Thai, they are very proud of it and so they should be.

 

School and Education

 

School and Education. I am starting school at a temple soon, its bascially bor 1 – bor 6 then mor 1 – mor 6. (That seems to be what you need to join university here) I have done bor 1 – bor 2 before, but its still going to be a very tough challenge, there is only one farang in the school and I am having to get a yellow tabian baan book to join. (I need an ID number) The course is free and its for drop outs or poor people that never got to finish their school or never went at all. Its all for free also, so I can drop out without feeling too guilty. I will have to do science, maths, business, geography/history over again. Andrew Biggs inspired me here, he did a degree in media (all in written and spoken Thai) but I wont be doing a degree, I have no goals except to become the best ever at reading and writing Thai. I dont care for certificates, but If I get up to bor 6, I will be very happy! This will really teach me more about Thailand and the people and add to my experiences.

 

Doing things that seem shite or a waste of time, sometimes I agree to attend or help someone and many would think why the fuck are you doing that, well if you don’t go you will never know. If you stay in the house you get less opportunities. If you are in the right place and right time, you can get lucky. There are plenty of guys around like me that are constantly looking for staff or opportunities and the best way is to get to know people. (but I am going off topic now, this is simply wisdom I have learnt)

 

Thai Nationality

 

Thai nationality – I am starting the lengthy process of becoming a Thai national, there are a few threads on Thai visa if guys are interested, its a big subject to delve into it, so I wont talk about it here. But I already been to police head quarters and spoke to them, I’ve got a friend going through the process at the moment and hes helping me. Right now I need 3 years paying personal tax under my belt (with a work permit) I also need to be in a yellow book for a while, which I am doing in 3 weeks. But I am hoping it will only take 6 years maximum, but once I do that I can speak out and stand up for myself a lot more and police/immigration cannot threaten to send me away. This will give me a lot of power and I could even hold things for people to keep them safe or even go on licenses. (no I wouldn’t haha) It will also be nice to have one of our houses or plots of land in my name, I trust my wife 1000% but it would be nice to have something in my name lol read more here http://www.thaivisa.com/…/121353-story-of-my-thai-citizens…/

 

Thai TV

 

Thai TV – I only watch TV now, I try and do this to learn Thai and practise and then I also know current topics to talk to Thais about. I must admit they go way too fast for me to understand, but I am slowly picking out more words one by one. I can see slow progress, I also search for Thai movies on youtube with English subs to help me translate. I also get inspired by this farang blogger “My mate nate” https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7rtE7hSTaC8xDf5v_7O1qQ I really wish a few creative guys got together and organised something like this, I would dedicate some time into it.

 

Thai Women

 

Ladies – Learning Thai, understanding Thais more means you are going to be better equipped to choose a good partner and you are less likely to have the wool pulled over your eyes. At home we judge people on jeremy kyle that talk like chavs and act like them, but for some guys its hard for them to spot with a language barrier. I personally steer clear of girls that are impolite and use bad language, I don’t care about class, (my wifes family are farmers) but I want politeness and a good partner. Most the guys bitching about Thai women, simply met a prostitute on holiday and had a whirl wind romance, except the guy doesn’t realise the bargirls have whirl wind romances with guys on every trip.

 

Patience

 

Patience – Most things here are done slowly and in old ways such as the courts still write to each other and it takes a long process. (but I stop myself complaining when I remind myself, stop being so serious or westernised and enjoy the moment instead of boiling over, after all we came here to escape the rat race and fast lane. I have very little patience, I have tried to battle this by meditating but I am too impatient, but I am slowly fixing it. I do not care if someone is late anymore (unless I have a meeting after) and if I am stuck in traffic, I can use learn Thai apps, read, catch up on emails or message people back.

 

One of my pet hates is when guys come to Pattaya, they dont experience real Thai people or the real Thailand but then they think all Thais are the same and judge it by the greedy types that every city in the world attracts. Alot of guys can’t seem to distinguish between a bar girl, a regular girl, a girl in between and middle/high class girls. They will often joke all Thai girls cheat, but if you meet a girl in a brothel and then she continue working because your just a customer, then you have to lie in the bed you created. My experience with regular girls is that they are difficult to get into, which I think is a good thing, but thats like real society everywhere. I’m not trying to side with the girls, but they get lied to also, plenty of guys with a hardon offering to send them money to stop work, but then it stops when the guy gets home hits reality and wakes up from his dream.

 

Having said all that, we should keep some of our culture/ways. I am never going to pretend to be Thai, I never wore Thai clothes during my wedding etc, because I said I am a farang and I’m proud of where I am from. I was brought up in England and I still want to teach my wife and kids about that. Having 2 cultures is best because you can take the best from each culture, some people slam Thais but they are no worst or better than us, they are just different and people use poor examples of a silly incident. Every time there is a beating of 4 Thais on 1 farang, all the farang are up in arms about Thais fighting like a pack of dogs… well their is scumbags/thugs in every society, it does not reflect the mainstream public.

 

I would also like to point out, trying to change the ways Thai’s think and apply western standards doesn’t work here because they have there own way of doing things and its going to take generations for them to be westernized as much as us, but its already happening fast thanks to youtube and facebook creating a global community and giving people a voice! Saying that most of us came here to get away from the west so I dont think its a particularly bad thing, I like the way things work here often. I remember seeing young Thais commenting on youtube videos showing corruption and they said, dont worry, our generation will sort it out and look after you. I have seen those changes happening already!

 

Conflict Resolution

 

Conflict resolution – one last thing I often like about the Thais, when farang argue or conflict they can get very confrontational, your never gonna approach a situation fairly if you feel you are the one thats right. I’ve even see farang business owners resolve conflicts by bringing in there high ranking police/army or some other person of importance. We have used this method before, because two elders can discuss the problem fairly and save face for each other at the same time, and most Thais will listen to their elders or more senior friends, I love that respect here. Its very very rare it actually boils down to violence or nastiness.

 

Author Bio

 

Bryan founded Pattaya-Addicts.com in 2005 and set up Night Wish group of investors which has 10 lady bars and encounting in Pattaya. Hes also part owns Bite me bistro. Hes a family man and is dedicated to muay thai and learning thai

 

Source: http://www.inspirepattaya.com/lifestyle/total-immersion-expats-view-10-years-thailand/

 

[Alive]

Well, he certainly knew what he wanted. Seems like he is going the right way but some Thais will question his choice of Pattaya as some  foreigners do to. But if you are happy, live it up. Going for that Thai 'education' and getting citizenship are vital. If you don't do that, you need personal wealth for security. If you have both wealth and citizenship even better. The most successful foreigners here seem to get Thai citizenship.

[faraday]

Really interesting, thank you.

But, eating Durian? Nope.

[colinneil]

Good post very interesting, bit too long winded.

I fell asleep half way through then had to start again.

Problem is i am getting old.

[Haso]

Well said .. I agree with your evaluation and opinion 100%, and notice a few spelling mistakes as you have said. I once saw written on a Police Watchouse Wall. "If you notice this notice you will notice that this notice is not 'worse' noticing".

[rijb]

I've been living with a Thai for over 40 years.

 

Instead, I should have been living like a Thai for over 40 years.

 

My mistake.

[Anthony5]

26 minutes ago, webfact said:

Thais will listen to their elders or more senior friends, I love that respect here. Its very very rare it actually boils down to violence or nastiness.

 

Must be a different Thailand from the one I live in, cos I read everyday threads in the news section about that violence and nastiness.

[Stoker58]

Many excellent points here. Two things I would comment on. One, I'll never watch Thai TV. I just can't get my IQ down that low (Booinnngg!). Second, to learn Thai, start by learning to read it and do this on your own. Trying to speak Thai to Thais is soul destroying because they make no effort to meet you half way and understand what you are saying.

[trainman34014]

Interesting reading one mans experience and thoughts, he's been here the same amount of time as me.   Some points i agree with but not others....each to his own.

[ezzra]

 

They say to live you life as if it was your last day on earth, one day though, you be right....

[alocacoc]

I'm sure, everyone can create his own happiness regardless of the Country he stays. It's all about our mind.

[useronthenet]

Doesn't matter how much you try and integrate into Thai society,  you have no chance of being accepted as an equal. Whilst I can acknowledge what your trying to achieve, the end result will still remain the same. 

[onemorechang]

10 more years,  maybe you will have a different set of spectacles on.

Maybe not.

Good luck.

 

[villagefarang]

I am not keen on the way the OP has chosen to make a living but some of what was written got me thinking back to my 20s and 30s in Bangkok.  Thanks for sparking memories of my early years.

 

I agree that language is very important.  Som tam and durian are great.  There is nothing wrong with air-conditioning.  Thai style doesn’t have to be exclusively low class and unsophisticated.  I found well established Thais, with old family names and titles, very helpful and influential in my life.  Don’t write people off because of class hangups derived from life back home.

 

Good luck with your next 30 years.

Edited September 26, 2016 by villagefarang

[Torfinn Sporkland]

After 15 years on and off in Thailand myself,. no way,. this is too much,. dang,.. I always try  encourage Thais to learn better English,. I mean that’s the direction the world should go,. If you want to learn Thai,. it is a sidetrack but very well,. som skills are good for you,. But reading and writing it,. life’s too short for such an insignificant skill,. To learn my daughter proper English though, and make her bilingual is worth the effort for job opportunities later. 

Exercise Muay Thai is good,. sleep without air-con seems interesting,. but hot,. Eat all their overly spiced food with chilli,. No way,. They can keep it,. I’m happy with my Italian and Western food,. Doesn’t have to be that expensive. Thai television,. Nooo,. 5 minutes I crap out,. 

Buddhism is nice, but don’t go live like a monk,. Learn about it,. but do indeed learn yoga and meditation,. and not least practise it,.  

Thai-women can be headache,. like everywhere,. yes they are different,. bar girls can be the sweetest things too,. though perhaps farther in between,. 

Anyway,. enjoy Thailand in any suitable ways,.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Torfinn Sporkland

[Rimmer]

Some off topic and troll posts have been removed

[bluebluewater]

I read a couple of paragraphs and could not be asked to do anymore.  Skimmed through the bullet points.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah -  Self nominations for sainthood are now open.

[phantomfiddler]

I heard Bite me is on the skids after the chef and originator of the restaurant was given the bum,s rush ! Not very smart to fire the chef

[Thanyaburi Mac]

Stoker58

 

"Trying to speak Thai to Thais is soul destroying because they make no effort to meet you half way and understand what you are saying."

 

Hmmm, disagree, I find that I can get along with 90% of the Thai I talk to in my mangled speaking, they do try to help out in listening, at least most of them do.  With an occasional chuckle, of course, when I screw up.

 

Mac

[TPI]

1 hour ago, Thanyaburi Mac said:

Stoker58

 

"Trying to speak Thai to Thais is soul destroying because they make no effort to meet you half way and understand what you are saying."

 

Hmmm, disagree, I find that I can get along with 90% of the Thai I talk to in my mangled speaking, they do try to help out in listening, at least most of them do.  With an occasional chuckle, of course, when I screw up.

 

Mac

I agree, trying to speak Thai can be a lot of fun, especially if you laugh at yourself and can draw what you're trying to buy or catch. Most people are intrigued that you are willing to lose face in order to get your message across and are happy to help as much as they can......they're very similar to Vietnamese in that regard!

[alocacoc]

When i came to Thailand, i didn't use the AC for sleep. After 3 Years, i started it, because, I sleep better and it gives me a better quality of life. Every Thai Person who can effort it, does use the AC as well. Eat Somtam? If you like, why not. Most non-Isaan people don't it it. So, there are many different degrees how to integrate. Found your own way and don't judge others.

 

I for my self, I do cherry picking. I take what i like, and i leave alone what i don't appreciate. That's my personal luxury. Otherwise I wouldn't stay here so long. If I'm integrated or not...It doesn't matter, I don't care. But I recognize, that locals love to take my money....every day. So I guess, I'm integrated well enough.

Edited September 26, 2016 by alocacoc

[4MyEgo]

Interesting 10 years of living in Thailand.

 

I moved here to be away from the mainstream, fast paced and expensive western society.

 

I have my views on Thai's and I don't wish to learn their language or interact with most of them, my gut feel has been spot on with people since 1960 and I feel that most Thai's have not developed enough to be on my level, which isn't that high, before someone wants to have a go.

 

Although I have chosen to retire here with my wife and family, its mainly because its peaceful in the village, is very affordable and suites me, I am a visitor in this country and will abide by its laws, and will continue to show respect to the Thai's, let alone any human being worth of it.

 

Never been as fussed as most falangs about kids being educated, as long as they can read and write English and Thai, they can live off the land in the village away from the rat race, if they grow up and chose otherwise, up to you as the Thai's say, but there will be enough money coming in for them off the land that they won't have to have a boss, be stuck in a train, work relentless hours and put up with the stresses the western life provided me with.

 

As someone said on their post, each to their own.

 

I say, there is life away from the norm, live it, enjoy it and don't stress, this is how life was mean't to be lived.

 

Peace 

[hobobo]

3,378 words! Words of infinte wisdom, and a subtle mockery of everyone else. What a lot of drivel!

[Songlaw]

10 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Must be a different Thailand from the one I live in, cos I read everyday threads in the news section about that violence and nastiness.

 

An individual can only be pissed on and told that it's raining for a set period of time. The same goes for a society. The individual or society that's wet, and knows deep inside that it ain't raining, will eventually start to lash out, and will do so until he/she/it figures out exactly what is the source of his/her/its discomfort. Then, guess what happens?  Buckle up, mate. This is only phase two. However, were you to take away the antagonist(s), then the individual and society return to his/her/its natural path of self-actualization, which in general, manifests a much more beneficent experience, overall.  It'll happen, but it's going to be a while.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Songlaw

[Grubster]

Its all about who you are not where you are.

[carlyai]

 
They say to live you life as if it was your last day on earth, one day though, you be right....

Immersion?

You are joking ?

Go to AUA Bangkok and get some immersion.

Then live in a village.

See how that grabs you.

Sent from my SM-J700F using Tapatalk

[alofthailand]

A good article 

[Rimmer]

An off topic post has been removed

[Naam]

6 hours ago, bluebluewater said:

I read a couple of paragraphs and could not be asked to do anymore.  Skimmed through the bullet points.

 

Yeah, yeah, yeah -  Self nominations for sainthood are now open.

 

and so are nominations for Gobble Prize "boring people to death with pages of irrelevant and utter drivel advice not applicable to the majority of  the resident audience"

[Johnniey]

12 hours ago, Anthony5 said:

 

Must be a different Thailand from the one I live in, cos I read everyday threads in the news section about that violence and nastiness.

Try getting off your backside and away from your computer and seeing real  life.