Is Thailands view on Foreigners really changing?

[sanemax]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I've always found it weird that there are so few Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in Thailand, for example. There are many Thai restaurants in those nations. There are more Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in the typical large U.S. city than in Bangkok. It's a really wonderful, interesting, distinctive cuisine in a bordering nation. It's bizarre to me really. Imagine the USA without Mexican restaurants. OK, very few Canadian ones, but that's because the national cuisines are so similar. Thai food and Malaysian/Singaporean are very different. I find that an interesting clue about Thai attitudes towards their close neighbors. 

 

   I do not recall seeing Singaporean or Malaysian restaurants outside their respective Countries, although I am sure that there are some .

   Maybe there are numerous Malaysian and Singaporean restaurants in the USA because there are numerous immigrants from Malaysia and Singapore in the USA.

   Malaysian, Thai and Singaporean food are all rice and noodles based, so they are quite similar and maybe Malaysians and Singaporeans have no desire to open any restaurants in Thailand.

   Maybe they cannot get work or business visa or they are unable to buy restaurants outright.

  There could be numerous reasons.

   Maybe Thais just dont like their food ?

[geisha]

What cries out to me is the fact  that 30 years ago most Thais were a happy lot.

Maybe the " innocence " is gone, and disillusion has stepped in. I see a lot of miserable, sullen shop workers and owners, people in all walks of life who can often be quite rude, something I never experienced before. I've seen some Thai people behaving abominably to tourists, and it shocks me and upsets me and my vision of the once lovely folk. 

[MikeyIdea]

44 minutes ago, red roger said:

And to be overly proud (nationalistic)  and to refuse acknowledgement of the cultures of surrounding countries is a good thing? 

 

Overly proud is in the eye of the beholder, I certainly do not agree with that statement.

 

I cannot see that they refuse acknowledgement of other cultures either. I see the opposite:

 

Thai's are tolerant of other cultures. Anyone think they are not???

 

Edited October 7, 2016 by MikeyIdea

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, geisha said:

What cries out to me is the fact  that 30 years ago most Thais were a happy lot.

Maybe the " innocence " is gone, and disillusion has stepped in. I see a lot of miserable, sullen shop workers and owners, people in all walks of life who can often be quite rude, something I never experienced before. I've seen some Thai people behaving abominably to tourists, and it shocks me and upsets me and my vision of the once lovely folk. 

 

    That was due to a lack of education and low life achievement expectations .

Happy with nothing .

30 years ago Thais were poverty stricken and lived in slums and they were very happy to meet rich young Westerners who had money .

   30 years later, this Thai generation has an education and higher expectations .

Do not forget that you are 30 years older and no longer the young rich handsome Westerner .

   There are still plenty of young happy Thais out there, but you probably do not mix in those circles anymore

[MaxiMaxi]

21 hours ago, worgeordie said:

 Uses its changing,not sure if the general population feel any different to Farangs,

but the Thai Government seems to be very Xenophobic ,when I first came here

90 day reporting was a law,but never enforced,now it seems every week there's

a change,and not for the better ,how many times do they need to know where we

live,yearly extension, 90 days report,the new Immigration form,the form the Police

want you to fill in,TM28,TM30, don't know what they will come up with next, 

"Good guys in ,Bad guys out",but it seems like we are all been treated like potential

criminals.

regards worgeordie

Yes I agree.

In my country a kind of 90days Is used for Criminals free on parole that cannot leave the area and must report to police station.

 

[peterrabbit]

ABSOLUTELY! Many expats who live or holiday here for decades are moving because of the perceived attitude of the current government and Thais in general. Their main reason for leaving is because they see constant bad news about Thailand and the authorities constantly criticising and blaming 'foreigners' for many of the problems which have been caused by the Thais themselves. They no longer feel welcome in Thailand and are voting with their feet and taking their spending power with them. For many it is no longer 'the land of smiles' but 'the land of a snarls of hatred' against falangs.

[Jingthing]

37 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   I do not recall seeing Singaporean or Malaysian restaurants outside their respective Countries, although I am sure that there are some .

   Maybe there are numerous Malaysian and Singaporean restaurants in the USA because there are numerous immigrants from Malaysia and Singapore in the USA.

   Malaysian, Thai and Singaporean food are all rice and noodles based, so they are quite similar and maybe Malaysians and Singaporeans have no desire to open any restaurants in Thailand.

   Maybe they cannot get work or business visa or they are unable to buy restaurants outright.

  There could be numerous reasons.

   Maybe Thais just dont like their food ?

I find your response very weak.

The point is that Malaysian food is a cuisine appreciated internationally, not as much as Thai for sure, but it's out there.

Malaysia shares a border with Thailand.

Your suggestion they are the same just shows ignorance about food.

Yes, Thais may not like it. I'll give you that, but it's more like they don't have a clue about it and aren't curious to find out either.

PAGES AND PAGES OF MALAYSIAN RESTAURANTS IN LONDON:

https://www.zomato.com/london/restaurants/malaysian

[sanemax]

5 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

PAGES AND PAGES OF MALAYSIAN RESTAURANTS IN LONDON:

https://www.zomato.com/london/restaurants/malaysian

 

   Those are not Malaysian restaurants in London .

Nearly everyone is a combination of various Asian cuisines .

There are a few Malaysian only restaurants , but about 80% of them are a combination of Thai ,Malaysian, Chinese , Indonesian food etc 

[sanemax]

11 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

Malaysia shares a border with Thailand.

Your suggestion they are the same just shows ignorance about food.

 

 

   I stated that  both Thai and Malaysian food is rice and Noodle based, so they are similar in that respect.

Am I wrong ?

 

[khunpa]

1 hour ago, nemrut said:

No other country in the world makes it as easy to enter and stay to live as Thailand.  

 

In fact, farang are treated far better in Thailand than any Thai or non-white person would be in western countries.  

 

How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily?

 

Sorry, but I do not agree with this. If you can take care of yourself, you are pretty welcome in most countries (to live and make businesses). You are also welcome to invest in a business and will get 100% ownership of what you invest in. You do not have to hire 4 locals to just get a Work Permit etc.  In fact most countries encourage and appreciate foreign investments - and leave foreigners alone that can financially take care of themselves.

 

"How many western countries would let people enter and live so easily"... Have you heard of e.g. Germany and Sweden? Please show me an example of Thailand e.g. taking in refugees and actually helping them, instead of just exploiting their labour?

 

If dark-skined in my home country were charge x10 times to e.g. enter a national park, I am sure there would be an outrage. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by khunpa

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   I stated that  both Thai and Malaysian food is rice and Noodle based, so they are similar in that respect.

Am I wrong ?

 

You're being silly now. You could say the same thing about Chinese and Japanese food. 

[Jingthing]

16 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   Those are not Malaysian restaurants in London .

Nearly everyone is a combination of various Asian cuisines .

There are a few Malaysian only restaurants , but about 80% of them are a combination of Thai ,Malaysian, Chinese , Indonesian food etc 

And in London, not many French or Spanish restaurants? They're all potato and bread based ... same same, innit? 

You can play all kinds of games to deny my point, but it doesn't wash. There is something weird about the way Thais feel about food cultures of bordering nations. 

Edited October 7, 2016 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

Just now, Jingthing said:

And in London, not many French or Spanish restaurants? They're all potato and bread based ... same same, innit? 

 

   I do believe that London is the worlds most diverse City for different cuisines 

And lets face it, with English food , thats hardly surprising  

[Aj Mick]

Relationships with the diverse, common Thai folk in daily life has improved immensely as they come form familiar with and open to the ways of different cultures…… Shock, horror is the reaction of the self appointed powers that be and the so called elite, the arbiters of "Thainess", who have become more entrenched in their xenophobic attitudes and red tape.

[Berkshire]

4 hours ago, Suradit69 said:

 

If any of them have read even a small sampling of the posts on Thai Visa, who could blame them.

 

That said, I have not noticed any loss of friendliness. Some farang, as you probably know, are super-sensitive to any perceived loss of face, especially those farang with an unrealistically high sense of self-importance. Although I disagree with the idea that all Thai people behave or think in a concerted fashion as suggested by the title of this thread, I do think many Thai people do have a radar that picks up on pomposity and arrogance in farang and respond accordingly. What goes around comes around.

 

Well said.  Isn't it strange that some farangs get treated well by the Thais and some get treated like crap?  This is more about the farang themselves rather than the Thais.  But instead of admitting their shortcomings, they blame it on some kind of imaginary racial slight.  So lame. 

[kevozman1]

I am disappointed Berk. Took you four pages to resume your trolling in a prime thread. Slipping a bit if you don't mind me saying so.

[BlindMagician]

Yes, but of course it's done Thai style. Sometimes a byproduct of their incompetence or lacking of thinking things through.

[gamini]

I can't blame that Thais are disliking foreigners.. When I came here years ago I never heard the word "farang". Over the years the quality of foreigners coming to live here gets worse and worse. Some years back we had the German mafia in North Pattaya, then we had the Brit brigades of boiler room scammers. Now we have thousands of foreigners hiding in Thailand from the law. Many really ugly and unattractive ones too, here because they couldn't find a decent looking girl in their own country. We have the paedofiles .  But what I really think gets the Thais is the thousands of young people coming here to avoid working in their own country. They save a bit of money and try to stay here living very cheaply. They pay no taxes and contribute little to the country, they make no effort to make Thai friends.  It seems that most of the foreigners are now badly dressed, impolite and their conversation consists of bar girls, beer and bikes.  Not to mention all the fights and crime that foreigners commit here too
There are also of course a lot of decent foreigners whom the Thais respect.  They live here because they like the country and the people and they behave decently.

 

 

[Dumbastheycome]

Consider this: Thailand  has  long  accepted  and enabled people from  other destinations to stay long term under  very easy conditions  if compared to  many/most  countries.  Generally specifically westerners who have satisfied requirements of income even if only theoretically. Historically  many have taken advantage of this for personal reasons that vary.

Unfortunately it seems forgotten that historicallyThailand has also been selective in accepting western esoteric thinking.

Can it be denied  that immigrants  to a western country are  expected, if not instructed to adopt  assimilation into the destination of their choice? Relatively  few of long term stayers in Thailand have  ever  felt or been compelled to comply with the same . At the same time thay have been ( officially) denied access to State benefits as a result. A compromise  not difficult to  acknowledge.

In this current era where international events are creating all  kinds of stresses and revealing the artificial stability of the  western world is it any surprise that  now there is a focus on  expelling those  that are the dross?

The difficulty that creates is for those that have complied legitimately in the  main are  now being scrutinized along with the rest.

There  may be many who feel offended .  But the reality is that even after possibily spending decades in Thailand as a financially  viable  non  Thai resident/citizen (myself included)  there is little advantage in objection.

People  Thai are now feeling empowered to reject the assumed  superiority of "western" attitude and the distortions in social communities that they have created..

Those  that  impart rather than enforce have a better chance.

And in view of the increasingly publicised acts of  western individuals , regardless of  whether they be  tourist or   long stay, encourages people Thai to be  more cautious.

The  fascination is over.

 

 

[eastendanto]

On 06/10/2016 at 0:18 PM, worgeordie said:

Yes its changing,not sure if the general population feel any different to Farangs,

but the Thai Government seems to be very Xenophobic ,when I first came here

90 day reporting was a law,but never enforced,now it seems every week there's

a change,and not for the better ,how many times do they need to know where we

live,yearly extension, 90 days report,the new Immigration form,the form the Police

want you to fill in,TM28,TM30, don't know what they will come up with next, 

"Good guys in ,Bad guys out",but it seems like we are all been treated like potential

criminals.

regards worgeordie

 

Worgeordie pretty much nails it..... there is no doubt in my mind that the current military government has also contributed to the farang feeling of being tolerated rather than welcome. The UK government is now proposing that all companies operating in UK  should provide a list of all foreign workers they employ (good luck with that),  sounds like they've been seeking advisement from PM Prayut!!! I also think the explosion of Social Media in Thailand (Line, FB, WhatsApp etc...) during the last 6-7 years has changed the way that Thais view Farangs, particularly the younger generation and that in turn has probably reflected the attitude change towards many farangs by younger thais.

[Berkshire]

2 hours ago, kevozman1 said:

I am disappointed Berk. Took you four pages to resume your trolling in a prime thread. Slipping a bit if you don't mind me saying so.

 

Are you stalking me again?  This really is an unhealthy obsession that you have.  I appreciate the attention, but you really should consider having a life of your own.  But then again, that may be beyond your capability. 

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, gamini said:

I can't blame that Thais are disliking foreigners.. When I came here years ago I never heard the word "farang". Over the years the quality of foreigners coming to live here gets worse and worse. Some years back we had the German mafia in North Pattaya, then we had the Brit brigades of boiler room scammers. Now we have thousands of foreigners hiding in Thailand from the law. Many really ugly and unattractive ones too, here because they couldn't find a decent looking girl in their own country. We have the paedofiles .  But what I really think gets the Thais is the thousands of young people coming here to avoid working in their own country. They save a bit of money and try to stay here living very cheaply. They pay no taxes and contribute little to the country, they make no effort to make Thai friends.  It seems that most of the foreigners are now badly dressed, impolite and their conversation consists of bar girls, beer and bikes.  Not to mention all the fights and crime that foreigners commit here too
There are also of course a lot of decent foreigners whom the Thais respect.  They live here because they like the country and the people and they behave decently.

 

 

 

    I do not agree with disliking a whole group of people based on a minority of that groups actions .

   

[Grubster]

On October 6, 2016 at 7:12 PM, MikeyIdea said:

Thai's have always been protective of their ways and proud of their culture and they don't want it to change but I don't really feel / see that the Thai's view of foreigners have changed.

 

Thailand has developed a lot the last 25 years. Really. Thai's working professionally are better now and there is less to zero difference while there was more difference before. We got more respect in the lifts in the early 90's but that's more because there are too so many of us now... :)

 

Thaksin started using westerners as scape goats to get easy votes from the uneducated, don't think it stuck. 

 

Much is just natural change, it would be strange if this didn't change a bit when Thailand has developed so much

 

The current government is not anti-farang as such, Thai's think of them more as discipline freaks  

 

I don't know how you came up with the Thaksin thing but I sure get a much nicer feeling from Thai's up here in red shirt country than I do in yellow shirt country. I think the former government was no better than the current one but thats the feeling I get. Always smiling and happy to see me here.

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I've always found it weird that there are so few Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in Thailand, for example. There are many Thai restaurants in those nations. There are more Malaysian/Singaporean restaurants in the typical large U.S. city than in Bangkok. It's a really wonderful, interesting, distinctive cuisine in a bordering nation. It's bizarre to me really. Imagine the USA without Mexican restaurants. OK, very few Canadian ones, but that's because the national cuisines are so similar. Thai food and Malaysian/Singaporean are very different. I find that an interesting clue about Thai attitudes towards their close neighbors. 

Have you been to Hat Yai?

Given the numbers of Malaysians that come up for a fun weekend, I'd expect plenty Malaysian restaurants there.

I don't think many Singaporeans visit LOS. The infrastructure here is a step down for them, and they probably don't need to come here for entertainment.

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, gamini said:

I can't blame that Thais are disliking foreigners.. When I came here years ago I never heard the word "farang". Over the years the quality of foreigners coming to live here gets worse and worse. Some years back we had the German mafia in North Pattaya, then we had the Brit brigades of boiler room scammers. Now we have thousands of foreigners hiding in Thailand from the law. Many really ugly and unattractive ones too, here because they couldn't find a decent looking girl in their own country. We have the paedofiles .  But what I really think gets the Thais is the thousands of young people coming here to avoid working in their own country. They save a bit of money and try to stay here living very cheaply. They pay no taxes and contribute little to the country, they make no effort to make Thai friends.  It seems that most of the foreigners are now badly dressed, impolite and their conversation consists of bar girls, beer and bikes.  Not to mention all the fights and crime that foreigners commit here too
There are also of course a lot of decent foreigners whom the Thais respect.  They live here because they like the country and the people and they behave decently.

 

 

Hmmmmm. I'd like to know where the thousands of young people living in LOS are? Other than the thousands of backpackers that are obviously passing through, I don't see many at all not on holiday.

Most expats are older and living off pensions.

Your description only fits Pattaya and Phuket, IMO. There are a lot of Thais never seen a farang to talk to.

It is my opinion, but after visiting Pattaya, the worst foreigners are not westerners. One race in particular are extremely offensive. Not going to say which, but most westerners in Pattaya could probably guess.

[RawboneFunksta]

On ‎07‎/‎10‎/‎2016 at 11:31 AM, chrisinth said:

I would say that the majority of expat's perspectives are based on second-hand information, ie, public media & social media, and they are feeling things that aren't really there. Drifting into conspiracy theories in some cases.

 

Increase in violence is not just a Thai problem, it is global. The difference is that we see daily reports of incidents that, while being serious to all involved, would not command type space in other countries. Obviously there are exceptions, as there are everywhere else in this world. IMO, this gives a totally false picture of what the majority actually experience here, as is shown by the tourist numbers being reported (if those figures can be relied on).

 

As for the inconvenience of filling in a few extra forms, home visits, random checks? I have always put this down to national security rather than spying on the individual. The authorities are following scripts that are written into their legal system that have previously been overlooked and are now being enforced. This is to be expected when you get the military holding the reins and controlling the country.

 

Speaking as a person who works daily with Thais, and has been doing so for almost 20 years, I have not seen any marked increase in resentment or aggression from those that I work or associate with. On the working side I would also state that this may change depending in what industry you are attached. Or how easily you give in to fear=mongering...............

Actually, violent crime has been falling for decades in Europe and the USA. Don't believe the hype.

[chrisinth]

23 minutes ago, RawboneFunksta said:

Actually, violent crime has been falling for decades in Europe and the USA. Don't believe the hype.

 

Without trying to make an argument out of it, violent crime statistics are based on reported incidents. My actual wording was violence.

 

Again, my experiences may differ from others, but the last time i was home (granted a few years ago, but not decades) a night out was like going from one battle field to another. Again, mostly fist fights but violence none-the-less. I would imagine very few, if any, of these scraps would have been reported. This was happening every night out, regardless of the venue it seemed, I was actually quite shocked.

 

But the reported incidents have also changed. More and more attacks on the elderly are taking place, easy money for some of the more despicable members of society feeding whatever habits they need to feed. Streets really are dangerous places to be after dark.

 

I prefer to make assessments from personal experiences (and reliable sources) rather than believing any hype at all.

[jerojero]

Think the current government is trying to clean house, political opposition and foreign ad guys. Trouble is the wide bureaucratic sweep of foreigners affects too many good guys.

[nemrut]

8 hours ago, RawboneFunksta said:

Actually, violent crime has been falling for decades in Europe and the USA. Don't believe the hype.

 

Violent crime stats in US are only as good as the data the FBI is able to collect.  In fact, police stations in the US are not mandated to report any crime date and only voluntarily provide what they want.

 

And even with supposedly declining violent crime in western countries, it is still much worse than most Asian ones.  I personnally feel far safer walking alone at night in Bangkok, HCMC, Beijing or Shanghai than any large city in US/UK/AUS.

[MikeyIdea]

11 hours ago, nemrut said:

 

Violent crime stats in US are only as good as the data the FBI is able to collect.  In fact, police stations in the US are not mandated to report any crime date and only voluntarily provide what they want.

 

And even with supposedly declining violent crime in western countries, it is still much worse than most Asian ones.  I personnally feel far safer walking alone at night in Bangkok, HCMC, Beijing or Shanghai than any large city in US/UK/AUS.

 

I totally agree, the world has become much more violent the last 10-20-25 years. Even smaller cities in passive Sweden, traditionally known as very safe, have violent violence, larger cities have lots of murders nowadays.

 

I absolutely agree, I feel much safer in Thailand than most western countries

 

I can't see that Thai's view of foreigners is changing really, Thailand's view is perhaps changing a bit overall but isn't that a bit in line with how westerner countries actually are changing rather?