May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Grouse]

42 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Your arrogance and insults just keep coming through all the time.

 

You seem to think that you are superior to everybody else on this forum.

 

If you don't like the way that a thread is running on a public forum them you have the option of reporting the post to the moderators. If the moderators consider that you are correct then they, and only they, can give the poster a holiday or even ban the poster completely.

 

On the previous thread which was closed you were one of the posters who insulted everybody that didn't agree with you.

 

YOU are not the final arbiter of what is written in this or any other thread. If you disagree with a post then explain why you disagree.

 

You are biased against Brexit and I am biased for Brexit.

 

A referendum was held and the people who got the most votes were those who wished and still wish to leave.

 

The news that I read from the UK government is that the PM is staying on that line. That the UK government WILL negotiate a Brexit on the best possible terms that they can get. That there will be NO second referendum and no change of course.

 

How that will be done I leave up to the government.

 

I have no intention of discussing this further. 

 

You have clearly not not considered either of the pieces posted on here.

 

I have no interest in insulting you; frankly It's unnecessary.

 

As for arrogance, absolutely!?

 

You have not even noticed the change in May's stance and the effect of that,  have you?

 

So, as I say, provide some useful, interesting input or use a different thread. OK?

Edited October 22, 2016 by Grouse
Kindness

[chiang mai]

34 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

Your arrogance and insults just keep coming through all the time.

 

You seem to think that you are superior to everybody else on this forum.

 

If you don't like the way that a thread is running on a public forum them you have the option of reporting the post to the moderators. If the moderators consider that you are correct then they, and only they, can give the poster a holiday or even ban the poster completely.

 

On the previous thread which was closed you were one of the posters who insulted everybody that didn't agree with you.

 

YOU are not the final arbiter of what is written in this or any other thread. If you disagree with a post then explain why you disagree.

 

You are biased against Brexit and I am biased for Brexit.

 

A referendum was held and the people who got the most votes were those who wished and still wish to leave.

 

The news that I read from the UK government is that the PM is staying on that line. That the UK government WILL negotiate a Brexit on the best possible terms that they can get. That there will be NO second referendum and no change of course.

 

How that will be done I leave up to the government.

 

The heck with arrogance and insults Bill, there's posters on this subject who aren't equipped to decide what to eat for breakfast, let alone argue the future of the UK! Don't confuse offensive and insulting with the ability to call a spade a spade.

 

Right, I'm off to the UK and the US for a few weeks hence I'm out of all of this. Queue the derogatory comments.....now!

[Xircal]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

True, but we should be negotiating wisely for the benefit of all. Looks to me that May has moved from the primacy of migration to the primacy of the economy. That's a major breakthrough IMHO. Her earlier arrogant stance just won her a cold shoulder.

 

May needs to get it into her thick head that there are four fundamental EU policy areas which can't be negotiated: http://www.europeanpolicy.org/en/european-policies/single-market.html

 

The EU isn't going to rewrite any of these just because Britain wants to limit immigration from EU member states. If she doesn't want to accept any of them then it's going to mean a hard brexit. She might be able to persuade some businesses to remain in the UK by offering to subsidise them to make up for any shortfall incurred due to exchange rate fluctuations but taxes will probably have to rise to pay for it all.

 

Coupled with rising inflation due to the slide in Sterling the BoE may raise the base rate which will mean that mortgages will have to go up and base lending rates will rise causing some small businesses to cut down on staff or go under. Similarly, a rise in the value of the Pound makes exports more expensive; something Britain doesn't need while it sorts out the mess it has created for itself. 

 

The sensible thing for May to do is to swallow her pride and accept that leaving the EU will have serious consequences for the economy and to perform a drastic U-turn before it's too late. Considering that the vote to leave the EU was almost a 50/50 split, half of the voters will be very angry, but the other half will doubtless thank her for it. Let's hope she has the sense to see that.

 

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

May needs to get it into her thick head that there are four fundamental EU policy areas which can't be negotiated: http://www.europeanpolicy.org/en/european-policies/single-market.html

 

The EU isn't going to rewrite any of these just because Britain wants to limit immigration from EU member states. If she doesn't want to accept any of them then it's going to mean a hard brexit. She might be able to persuade some businesses to remain in the UK by offering to subsidise them to make up for any shortfall incurred due to exchange rate fluctuations but taxes will probably have to rise to pay for it all.

 

Coupled with rising inflation due to the slide in Sterling the BoE may raise the base rate which will mean that mortgages will have to go up and base lending rates will rise causing some small businesses to cut down on staff or go under. Similarly, a rise in the value of the Pound makes exports more expensive; something Britain doesn't need while it sorts out the mess it has created for itself. 

 

The sensible thing for May to do is to swallow her pride and accept that leaving the EU will have serious consequences for the economy and to perform a drastic U-turn before it's too late. Considering that the vote to leave the EU was almost a 50/50 split, half of the voters will be very angry, but the other half will doubtless thank her for it. Let's hope she has the sense to see that.

 

 

Powerfully put!

 

I wonder whether there is a possibility of adjusting the free movement of workers regulation to tamp down the growing unease about this across much of the EU now?

 

I agree with your economic case.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, billd766 said:

 

Your arrogance and insults just keep coming through all the time.

 

You seem to think that you are superior to everybody else on this forum.

 

If you don't like the way that a thread is running on a public forum them you have the option of reporting the post to the moderators. If the moderators consider that you are correct then they, and only they, can give the poster a holiday or even ban the poster completely.

 

On the previous thread which was closed you were one of the posters who insulted everybody that didn't agree with you.

 

YOU are not the final arbiter of what is written in this or any other thread. If you disagree with a post then explain why you disagree.

 

You are biased against Brexit and I am biased for Brexit.

 

A referendum was held and the people who got the most votes were those who wished and still wish to leave.

 

The news that I read from the UK government is that the PM is staying on that line. That the UK government WILL negotiate a Brexit on the best possible terms that they can get. That there will be NO second referendum and no change of course.

 

How that will be done I leave up to the government.

 

If they put a lid on their arrogance and condescension Bill, all they have left is speculation that keeps getting confounded by events, thirteen admin jobs from a fancy dress costume company going to Holland, and THE EXCHANGE RATE!!! (). Much easier to call anyone not agreeing with them (including the prime minister) stupid in as many 'clever' ways that they can think of.

[rockingrobin]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Powerfully put!

 

I wonder whether there is a possibility of adjusting the free movement of workers regulation to tamp down the growing unease about this across much of the EU now?

 

I agree with your economic case.

The free movement of workers is a directive , not a regulation. As a directive it is up to the members state how they achieve the legal act.

The issue around adjusting would require the TFEU amending

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

We just had one thread shut down because it was hijacked by stupidity. This thread will have sensible discussion of the actual issues. If you can't contribute sensibly, please leave us alone. Thank you.

 

It was shut down because it was hijacked by uncivil behaviour.

[Khun Han]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

Maybe have a word with the Mods, see if you can have a discussion group only catering for highly intelligent people like yourself, and let the rest of the plebs battle it out between ourselves?

 

It's already available: it's called private messaging.

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, rockingrobin said:

The free movement of workers is a directive , not a regulation. As a directive it is up to the members state how they achieve the legal act.

The issue around adjusting would require the TFEU amending

 

I stand corrected, thanks!

 

My point is that all organisations have to change over time to avoid brittle fracture. It seems to me that uncontrolled migration WITHIN the EU, might need to be looked at for the general good?

[Grouse]

11 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

It was shut down because it was hijacked by uncivil behaviour.

 

Yes, I take the point ?

 

Let's all do better this time!

[Khun Han]

My prediction (everybody seems to good at these on here) is that PM May will continue to cut a balance between stated aims and 'singing nice songs' whilst keeping the UK's negotiating cards close to her chest. The deal eventually struck will be quota-based immigration with some restrictions on lower skills migrants. And a trade deal costing an annual fee of several (but less than ten) billion Euros which will also be quota-based, with quite high minimum quotas for import of German and French products and services and a few from other countries to give an appearance of fairness.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

 

I have no intention of discussing this further. 

 

You have clearly not not considered either of the pieces posted on here.

 

I have no interest in insulting you; frankly It's unnecessary.

 

As for arrogance, absolutely!?

 

You have not even noticed the change in May's stance and the effect of that,  have you?

 

So, as I say, provide some useful, interesting input or use a different thread. OK?

 

The link provided by Jingthing (love his food and restaurant threads by the way) is old ground, already discussed on the last thread.

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

The link provided by Jingthing (love his food and restaurant threads by the way) is old ground, already discussed on the last thread.

 

From 3 days ago.

 

Listen Han, you're an intelligent bloke. I want to debate the issues. Stop sniping. Please? ?

[Khun Han]

14 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

From 3 days ago.

 

Listen Han, you're an intelligent bloke. I want to debate the issues. Stop sniping. Please? ?

 

I'm not sniping. I pointed out that we've already discussed the NYR article.

Edited October 22, 2016 by Khun Han

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

 

I'm not sniping. I pointed out that we've already discussed the NYR article.

 

I had not seen it

 

Was it on the closed thread?

 

 

[Khun Han]

Yes.

[ilostmypassword]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

I had not seen it

 

Was it on the closed thread?

 

 

Actually it's #5 on this thread. 

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Actually it's #5 on this thread. 

 

Thats what I am referring to!

 

Han wants to beat me up for not seeing the piece on the closed thread

 

Any idea what number?

 

I'm trying to be polite!

[jadee]

I don't know whether the topic of this thread is still the same as the title 'May ready for tough talks over Brexit' but the reports seem grim from what I've been reading in the papers. The EU negotiator asked that discussions be in French and then May was kept waiting until 1am to give her 'Brexit' speech that lasted all of 5 minutes. This type of treatment was always to be expected when the UK tried to negotiate with a bloc 9-10 times its size. 
From the UK's perspective, it must be terrifying to see how one small area of Belgium is blocking the Canada-EU trade deal that's been dragging on for 7 years, prompting Canada to walk out and brand the EU impossible. A sign of things to come for the UK I think. 

[Xircal]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

Powerfully put!

 

I wonder whether there is a possibility of adjusting the free movement of workers regulation to tamp down the growing unease about this across much of the EU now?

 

I agree with your economic case.

 

There's no growing unease about free movement of workers across the rest of the EU as far as I'm aware. Why would you think that there was?

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, Xircal said:

 

There's no growing unease about free movement of workers across the rest of the EU as far as I'm aware. Why would you think that there was?

 

If Schengen borders were secure, I don't think there is a major problem. But in the current febrile environment there are problems in several northern EU states which require attention. How to deal with the specific UK issue is a bit different. Maybe the collapsing pound will produce its own solution.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If they put a lid on their arrogance and condescension Bill, all they have left is speculation that keeps getting confounded by events, thirteen admin jobs from a fancy dress costume company going to Holland, and THE EXCHANGE RATE!!! (). Much easier to call anyone not agreeing with them (including the prime minister) stupid in as many 'clever' ways that they can think of.

 

Yes, the exchange rate. IMHO, dismissal of sterling's precipitous drop is not something which is exactly the smartest thing to do, but I can appreciate the distress suffered of others pointing it out.

Edited October 22, 2016 by SheungWan

[chiang mai]

4 hours ago, SheungWan said:

 

Yes, the exchange rate. IMHO, dismissal of sterling's precipitous drop is not something which is exactly the smartest thing to do, but I can appreciate the distress suffered of others pointing it out.

 

On that note:

 

"The pound has found some support as traders recognize that its depreciation has benefits for a nation that’s struggling to boost exports and needs to fund a record current-account deficit. Sterling traders were also encouraged by U.K. Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond’s suggestion this week that the government wants to keep all options open as it leaves the EU. Still, most of the pound’s moves in recent months have been downward -- and there’s little suggestion that this is set to change. Pound forecasters polled by Bloomberg are more bearish than ever on the U.K. currency’s prospects.  And though the $1.25 median year-end prediction is now stronger than the exchange rate, that reflects how difficult it’s been for strategists to keep pace with sterling’s slide, rather than optimism about a bounce. “What we should expect now is a certain amount of quiet before the next lurch lower,” said SocGen’s Juckes.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-22/pound-s-uncomfortable-truce-can-t-mask-the-risk-of-abrupt-swings

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, chiang mai said:

 

On that note:

 

"The pound has found some support as traders recognize that its depreciation has benefits for a nation that’s struggling to boost exports and needs to fund a record current-account deficit. Sterling traders were also encouraged by U.K. Chancellor of the Exchequer Philip Hammond’s suggestion this week that the government wants to keep all options open as it leaves the EU. Still, most of the pound’s moves in recent months have been downward -- and there’s little suggestion that this is set to change. Pound forecasters polled by Bloomberg are more bearish than ever on the U.K. currency’s prospects.  And though the $1.25 median year-end prediction is now stronger than the exchange rate, that reflects how difficult it’s been for strategists to keep pace with sterling’s slide, rather than optimism about a bounce. “What we should expect now is a certain amount of quiet before the next lurch lower,” said SocGen’s Juckes.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-10-22/pound-s-uncomfortable-truce-can-t-mask-the-risk-of-abrupt-swings

 

Yes, that's a good piece!

 

I agree with all of the points made

 

Be interesting to see how it gets shot down ?

[Johnyo]

 
If they put a lid on their arrogance and condescension Bill, all they have left is speculation that keeps getting confounded by events, thirteen admin jobs from a fancy dress costume company going to Holland, and THE EXCHANGE RATE!!! (). Much easier to call anyone not agreeing with them (including the prime minister) stupid in as many 'clever' ways that they can think of.

The chief executive of the bankers association has some news for you

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[Grouse]

33 minutes ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

The chief executive of the bankers association has some news for you

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

 

Very worrying. Confirmed by Reuters

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN12M0U7?client=safari

 

[Grouse]

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

If they put a lid on their arrogance and condescension Bill, all they have left is speculation that keeps getting confounded by events, thirteen admin jobs from a fancy dress costume company going to Holland, and THE EXCHANGE RATE!!! (). Much easier to call anyone not agreeing with them (including the prime minister) stupid in as many 'clever' ways that they can think of.

 

Here's a good quote from H L Mencken

 

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard"

 

[ilostmypassword]

1 hour ago, Johnyo said:

 

 

The chief executive of the bankers association has some news for you

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/oct/22/leading-banks-set-to-pull-out-of-brexit-uk?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

 

On the other hand, having such a concentration of financial institutions gives them a disproportionate amount of power in the UK.  They played a major role in getting the Tories to slash taxes on the wealthy to cut services to the unemployed and to  inadequately fund the NHS.  Perhaps that is one reason why the middle class in other Northern European nations mostly has it so much better than do the British.  The pestilence has largely been confined to the UK.

[CharlieK]

15 hours ago, Khun Han said:

My prediction (everybody seems to good at these on here) is that PM May will continue to cut a balance between stated aims and 'singing nice songs' whilst keeping the UK's negotiating cards close to her chest. The deal eventually struck will be quota-based immigration with some restrictions on lower skills migrants. And a trade deal costing an annual fee of several (but less than ten) billion Euros which will also be quota-based, with quite high minimum quotas for import of German and French products and services and a few from other countries to give an appearance of fairness.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/may/10/uk-trade-deficit-hits-new-record-of-24bn-pounds-eu-referendum-brexit

 

Figures from the ONS showed that Europe is gradually becoming a less important destination for UK companies. In 2000, 60% of exports went to other EU countries, but the percentage fell to 58% in 2005, 54% in 2010 and 47% in 2015.

                                                            -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The UK doesn't need the EU to be successful. The EU will implode. A hard brexit is better than allowing negotiations to drag on and on. It is not what T May wants, it is what the EU will allow the UK. The arrogance of people like Junker is enough to walk away from the table now.

 

I am sure the EU think the UK will come cap in hand begging for a trade deal. Pull the rug from under their feet and leave as soon as article 50 is enacted. no negotiating. For the UK to get a good deal they need the threaten the survival of the EU.

[CharlieK]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Here's a good quote from H L Mencken

 

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard"

 

 did you watch Paxman on Trump and Clinton?  

I'm with Churchill when he said 

 

"The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."