May ready for tough talks over Brexit

[Jip99]

1 minute ago, Here It Is said:

I'm done with arguing this subject. 

 

The government needs to walk away with no deal at the earliest opportunity, like tomorrow.  The EU needs us more than we need them.  

 

 

But that would then put an end to Grouse's wet-dreaming.....

[Here It Is]

Just now, Jip99 said:

But that would then put an end to Grouse's wet-dreaming.....

Grouse is in a very small minority of one.

[talahtnut]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

OK, EU in 10 years

 

1) planetary system with France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands at the core. 30 other countries in various orbits with varying conditions and benefits

 

2) UK in outer orbit

 

3) Immigration pillar now much more flexible

 

4) Still social democrat with high levels of social justice and low inequality 

 

5) Strasbourg scrapped as an economy measure

 

6) Core countries have national income for all due to reduced requirement for labour because of robotics, AI, and automation.

 

7) Spain adopted a Cantonal system

 

8) Euro settlements now handled by Frankfurt

 

9) NI reunited with Eire and together occupy an inner orbit.

 

10) University fees scrapped in favour of progressive tax system (UK opted out)

 

11) EU now much bigger with 700M market.

 

12) Huge import duties on USA products due to their polluting industry

 

13) UK specialised in material sciences including batteries, magnets, lasers and semiconductors.

 

14) Poland and Hungary allowed back in after promising not to be ungrateful selfish bastards

 

Enough? Or shall I continue?

I doubt it mate..the Chinese will buy it velly cheap knackered,  and run it for a plofit.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

OK, EU in 10 years

 

1) planetary system with France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands at the core. 30 other countries in various orbits with varying conditions and benefits

 

2) UK in outer orbit

 

3) Immigration pillar now much more flexible

 

4) Still social democrat with high levels of social justice and low inequality 

 

5) Strasbourg scrapped as an economy measure

 

6) Core countries have national income for all due to reduced requirement for labour because of robotics, AI, and automation.

 

7) Spain adopted a Cantonal system

 

8) Euro settlements now handled by Frankfurt

 

9) NI reunited with Eire and together occupy an inner orbit.

 

10) University fees scrapped in favour of progressive tax system (UK opted out)

 

11) EU now much bigger with 700M market.

 

12) Huge import duties on USA products due to their polluting industry

 

13) UK specialised in material sciences including batteries, magnets, lasers and semiconductors.

 

14) Poland and Hungary allowed back in after promising not to be ungrateful selfish bastards

 

Enough? Or shall I continue?

All this talk of orbits! But I know Grouse is ready for re-entry!

[Grouse]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/11/david-davis-still-denying-mps-meaningful-vote-brexit

 

The Cons are sly untrustworthy bastards. They are heading for an ignominious end.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, Here It Is said:

I'm done with arguing this subject. 

 

The government needs to walk away with no deal at the earliest opportunity, like tomorrow.  The EU needs us more than we need them.  

Broken record from the off.

[Grouse]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/brexit-reverse-vote-eu-withdrawal-act-stop-remain-parliament-commons-a8054461.html

 

That sounds prescient to me ?

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, Jip99 said:

But that would then put an end to Grouse's wet-dreaming.....

As opposed to the Brexiteer nightmare unfolding with the split in the Tory Government.

[Khun Han]

6 hours ago, nauseus said:

All this talk of orbits! But I know Grouse is ready for re-entry!

 

He might be. But not to this planet, or even this solar system.

[Jip99]

3 hours ago, SheungWan said:

As opposed to the Brexiteer nightmare unfolding with the split in the Tory Government.

 

 

 

That started from the moment Cameron screwed up.

[Grouse]

15 hours ago, Here It Is said:

Grouse is in a very small minority of one.

So, the gap has closed to just one! That's good although in reality we're a majority now ?

[Grouse]

7 hours ago, Khun Han said:

 

He might be. But not to this planet, or even this solar system.

I did wonder if the planetary metaphor would be too difficult a concept for some. Let me think of a simpler way of explaining the idea. How about Bohr's atomic model? Nah, quarks...

[aright]

15 hours ago, Grouse said:

OK, EU in 10 years

 

1) planetary system with France, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands at the core. 30 other countries in various orbits with varying conditions and benefits

 

2) UK in outer orbit

 

3) Immigration pillar now much more flexible

 

4) Still social democrat with high levels of social justice and low inequality 

 

5) Strasbourg scrapped as an economy measure

 

6) Core countries have national income for all due to reduced requirement for labour because of robotics, AI, and automation.

 

7) Spain adopted a Cantonal system

 

8) Euro settlements now handled by Frankfurt

 

9) NI reunited with Eire and together occupy an inner orbit.

 

10) University fees scrapped in favour of progressive tax system (UK opted out)

 

11) EU now much bigger with 700M market.

 

12) Huge import duties on USA products due to their polluting industry

 

13) UK specialised in material sciences including batteries, magnets, lasers and semiconductors.

 

14) Poland and Hungary allowed back in after promising not to be ungrateful selfish bastards

 

Enough? Or shall I continue?

For God's sake no more. Do you use the Chuckle Brothers as a template for constructive debate

I am in Patts at the moment in the grip of the grape and the girls so can only be cursory but will give it the attention  it deserves and get more serious when more sober.

My one brief comment; I assume you are happy with the majority of these outcomes since you voted in. How do you propose to ensure the outcomes with 72 MEPs in an assembly of 760 . With the UK in your so called outer orbit we can control ambitions and outcomes We all know of the social and political success story of Italy. They have the same number of MEPs as the UK. Obviously you are happy for them to be a driving force in the Parliament. If as you suggest the size of the market is important 700M.... logic would suggest China would be a better trading market for us.

 

 

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

For God's sake no more. Do you use the Chuckle Brothers as a template for constructive debate

I am in Patts at the moment in the grip of the grape and the girls so can only be cursory but will give it the attention  it deserves and get more serious when more sober.

My one brief comment; I assume you are happy with the majority of these outcomes since you voted in. How do you propose to ensure the outcomes with 72 MEPs in an assembly of 760 . With the UK in your so called outer orbit we can control ambitions and outcomes We all know of the social and political success story of Italy. They have the same number of MEPs as the UK. Obviously you are happy for them to be a driving force in the Parliament. If as you suggest the size of the market is important 700M.... logic would suggest China would be a better trading market for us.

 

 

Consider GDP per head and also disposable income

 

My planetary idea allows for flexibility. You will note that I didn't include Italy in the inner core countries.

 

The model also allows for flexibility in adopting the Euro.

 

Have fun!

[melvinmelvin]

On 13.11.2017 at 1:01 PM, Grouse said:

What do you personally expect to gain from leaving the EU?

 

unfortunate question, will hopefully go unanswered

 

 

[billd766]

11 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

unfortunate question, will hopefully go unanswered

 

 

 

No more posts from Grouse?

[aright]

You personally may not want to see Italy inner core  but their 72 votes say they are. How are you going to change that? 

Junker and Barnier  won't tolerate flexibility.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Euro.....it's an international currency. When we leave the bad smell behind us we can adopt it if we so wish.

Your preferred policy on immigration? 

Right. I have showered, applied a double dose of Brut, pink shirt, British Racing Green Cravat, grey flares , two tone brogues, spats and a silver tipped cane; I will be "tied up" with my soubrettes for the rest of the day.

Night all

 

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

I did wonder if the planetary metaphor would be too difficult a concept for some. Let me think of a simpler way of explaining the idea. How about Bohr's atomic model? Nah, quarks...

Obviously in a world of his own......somewhere!

[sandyf]

On 11/14/2017 at 10:44 AM, rockingrobin said:

All WTO members have a Regional trade agreement in force

 

https://www.wto.org/english/tratop_e/region_e/region_e.htm

Don't know where you are trying to go with that response. 

I was exporting to Europe before the single market came into being and being a small company the paperwork was a nightmare. Probably not so bad for the larger company that could fund an export department, I had to do it myself.

Are you trying to suggest that under a WTO RTA that the paperwork would be no more than at present. Some seem to think otherwise.

 

The stark warning from Westminster’s public accounts committee said the number of customs declarations which HM Revenue and Customs must process each year could increase almost five-fold – from 55m to 225m – after leaving the bloc. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-customs-system-eu-withdrawal-bill-date-times-catastrophic-uk-borders-european-a8053591.html

 

At this point in time, the UK has no WTO trade agreements in place. They were all removed when the EU became a WTO member and started to negotiate on behalf of all EU members. Any new agreements will need to be agreed by WTO members, until then it would be the default arrangement, an outcome that frightens most businessmen.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Don't know where you are trying to go with that response. 

I was exporting to Europe before the single market came into being and being a small company the paperwork was a nightmare. Probably not so bad for the larger company that could fund an export department, I had to do it myself.

Are you trying to suggest that under a WTO RTA that the paperwork would be no more than at present. Some seem to think otherwise.

 

The stark warning from Westminster’s public accounts committee said the number of customs declarations which HM Revenue and Customs must process each year could increase almost five-fold – from 55m to 225m – after leaving the bloc. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-customs-system-eu-withdrawal-bill-date-times-catastrophic-uk-borders-european-a8053591.html

 

At this point in time, the UK has no WTO trade agreements in place. They were all removed when the EU became a WTO member and started to negotiate on behalf of all EU members. Any new agreements will need to be agreed by WTO members, until then it would be the default arrangement, an outcome that frightens most businessmen.

 

 

If the will is there, the systems will follow.

 

 

A remember all too well the shackles of Exchange Control Regulations.... 5 part forms for the simplest of transactions; you even had to get a stamp for your holiday Pesetas.

 

 

Long before international, multicurrency ATM cards/machines became available.

[rockingrobin]

12 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Don't know where you are trying to go with that response. 

I was exporting to Europe before the single market came into being and being a small company the paperwork was a nightmare. Probably not so bad for the larger company that could fund an export department, I had to do it myself.

Are you trying to suggest that under a WTO RTA that the paperwork would be no more than at present. Some seem to think otherwise.

 

The stark warning from Westminster’s public accounts committee said the number of customs declarations which HM Revenue and Customs must process each year could increase almost five-fold – from 55m to 225m – after leaving the bloc. 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-news-customs-system-eu-withdrawal-bill-date-times-catastrophic-uk-borders-european-a8053591.html

 

At this point in time, the UK has no WTO trade agreements in place. They were all removed when the EU became a WTO member and started to negotiate on behalf of all EU members. Any new agreements will need to be agreed by WTO members, until then it would be the default arrangement, an outcome that frightens most businessmen.

The No Deal advocates justify their position by stating other countries rely on WTO rules, but forget to mention that every member of the WTO has some kind of regional or bilateral agreements in place.

[taipeir]

The No Deal advocates justify their position by stating other countries rely on WTO rules, but forget to mention that every member of the WTO has some kind of regional or bilateral agreements in place.

WTO is still a huge pain because everything is scrutinised by customs. 

No way around that. Delays of days could be common for imports. Each country and product of origin has to assessed independently .

 

Almighty pain in the ass for integrated european manufacturers.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-G955F using Tapatalk

 

 

 

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, aright said:

You personally may not want to see Italy inner core  but their 72 votes say they are. How are you going to change that? 

Junker and Barnier  won't tolerate flexibility.

I wouldn't pay too much attention to the Euro.....it's an international currency. When we leave the bad smell behind us we can adopt it if we so wish.

Your preferred policy on immigration? 

Right. I have showered, applied a double dose of Brut, pink shirt, British Racing Green Cravat, grey flares , two tone brogues, spats and a silver tipped cane; I will be "tied up" with my soubrettes for the rest of the day.

Night all

 

You mean soubrette as in castrati? Splendid! 

[Grouse]

5 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

No more posts from Grouse?

It must be awful for you gentlemen

 

You post your homework and the maths teacher makes fun of it  in front of the class.

 

All these years and you still feel humiliated ?

 

Yes, boy, you!

 

Has anyone got a plimsole?

 

??‍?

[aright]

How dare you Sir!  I mean as in a coquettish Maid.

I have rope marks all over me this afternoon.

[aright]

8 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Has anyone got a plimsole?

 

??‍?

Why? Have you got a line?

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Why? Have you got a line?

You're out of the knife box today! ?

[Guest]

Brexiters are so proud of their country, which till this day had not been able to produce a real brexit plan? Why is that?

 

I'm perfectly ok if UK wishes to stay as a one of the 28 member states of EU. I just wish that the "UK is the greatest country in the world" boosting will be lost to the reality.

 

UK is nothing special. It's just one country among the rest of us. 

 

[nontabury]

14 minutes ago, oilinki said:

Brexiters are so proud of their country, which till this day had not been able to produce a real brexit plan? Why is that?

 

I'm perfectly ok if UK wishes to stay as a one of the 28 member states of EU. I just wish that the "UK is the greatest country in the world" boosting will be lost to the reality.

 

UK is nothing special. It's just one country among the rest of us. 

 

Your correct, the U.K. is nothing  special, except that it’s the first country to vote to leave this so called a Union. And this is what scares the Buraeucrats in Brussel. The thought that when the U.K. gains it’s independence,and makes a success of it. That this will lead to even More, of the people of continental Europe following the U.K.s lead.

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

If the will is there, the systems will follow.

 

 

A remember all too well the shackles of Exchange Control Regulations.... 5 part forms for the simplest of transactions; you even had to get a stamp for your holiday Pesetas.

 

 

Long before international, multicurrency ATM cards/machines became available.

Never heard of Exchange Control Regulations being considered similar to Customs Regulations but there is a first for everything.