Corruption

[marshbags]

From todays Nation

Sat, December 2, 2006 : Last updated 0:10 am

Quote:-

Corruption from the cradle to the grave

Since the ousting of the former prime minister, much has been said and written about corruption at the highest level, but perhaps it could be argued that the essence of corruption is as embedded within every class of Thai society as making merit at the local temple.

Instead of simply pointing our fingers at Thailand's most powerful and blaming them for all the country's corruption, let's go deeper, have a look in the mirror, and delve into the root of the issue.

Let's begin with the good old-fashioned upcountry family. Even before a toddler can walk and talk, his delirious daddy on his unlicensed motorbike is already showing off to him, his amazing driving skills. Approaching the traffic lights with half the family packed on the back like a row of squashed sardines, he shoots left, then right, and takes a dare-devil U-turn. Toddler is thrilled at how daddy can save precious time swerving around the traffic laws without having to wait 60 seconds at the lights. Then, on approaching a police box, Toddler is again amazed at the way Daddy, like magic, one-handedly grabs his helmet in the front basket and quickly sticks it on his head like a clumsy construction worker.

A little later in the day, Toddler learns that it is absolutely pointless to stop for a red-light when there are no other vehicles around. Just drive straight through!

Toddler is soon enlightened further by his caring mummy. When she invites half the neighbourhood to the house on a sunny afternoon to play cards in the living room, he is taught to stay outside, keep guard and knock on the door five times if he spots a policeman passing by on his motorbike.

Having grown out of his diapers, the toddler eventually realises that one of Mum's favourite times of the year is the run-up to any kind of election. Opening the door to canvassers, she is delighted at the free bottles of fish sauce, washing detergent and tins of fried mackerel. For Dad, a small bottle of local hooch is also thrown in. Toddler sits back and hears Mum raving at the generosity of the candidate.

Before he is even five years of age, the average kid in the countryside learns that if you want to win the hearts and minds of the villagers, you need only cash.

A year or so later and it's time for school - and, of course, getting decent grades. The young student soon realises that the most efficient method for securing high grades, besides working hard in the classroom, is to attend private weekend or evening classes run by some of his teachers at their homes.

After paying the private tuition fees, he will score top marks for his homework assignments and even be given insightful information on the contents of the mid-year exam.

After private class in the evening, should the young student care to hang around a bit longer, he may have the opportunity to sneak a look through his teacher's front curtains and see her also dealing out cards to her friends. This time however, no guard is needed, as the teacher is married to a ranking local policeman.

The young upcountry student has been taught all the subtleties of corruption from the cradle, but there is much more to be learned in the epicentre of corruption conditioning - Bangkok.

Unquote.

Please go to the url for the full article:-

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/2006/12/02...on_30020542.php

A great article in my humble opinion and spot on.

marshbags

Edited December 2, 2006 by marshbags

[jumnien]

Corruption = Thailand

Moral Purity = United States of America

Where do I choose to live? THAILAND!!!

Corruption has been given a bad rap in the farang press, it's not so bad once you get used to it; I rather prefer it! There is a beautiful new airport built (filled with corruption) to whisk you away efficiently to less corrupt nations on earth. Myself and the family, we'll stay here, thank you.

[Grover]

Yes, the author identifies the root problem of corruption in Thailand clearly. It's a good article.

In my mind, a large part of the solution rests in clean political leadership that sets a good example to the people. Unlike Thaksins leadership style that exasperated the problems described in the article.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Grover

[Maigo6]

Then, on approaching a police box, Toddler is again amazed at the way Daddy, like magic, one-handedly grabs his helmet in the front basket and quickly sticks it on his head like a clumsy construction worker.

So whats the reason for Farangs doing the same things in Pattaya, ingrained since birth, or just plain stupidity?

[jumnien]

Yes, the author identifies the root problem of corruption in Thailand clearly. It's a good article.

In my mind, a large part of the solution rests in clean political leadership that sets a good example to the people. Unlike Thaksins leadership style that exasperated the problems described in the article.

Alsolutely, now that the evil Thaksin is gone we can revert back to the clean political leadership that characterized Thai politics before him, and, in fact, politics around the globe! Please, we didn't just fall off the turnip truck, you know...

"clean political leadership", is that like "military intelligence"?

[Maigo6]

I don't see too many Farangs complain about getting away with a 200 Baht on the spot fine by the Highway Police for an offence that would have gotten them Banned for 6 months in the UK.

So I guess Farangs feel certain corruption is fine, as long as Farangs feel they benefit personally.

If it only benefits Thai people, then more Farang venom will be discharged from their yellowing fangs.

[Grover]

Yes, the author identifies the root problem of corruption in Thailand clearly. It's a good article.

In my mind, a large part of the solution rests in clean political leadership that sets a good example to the people. Unlike Thaksins leadership style that exasperated the problems described in the article.

Alsolutely, now that the evil Thaksin is gone we can revert back to the clean political leadership that characterized Thai politics before him, and, in fact, politics around the globe! Please, we didn't just fall off the turnip truck, you know...

"clean political leadership", is that like "military intelligence"?

There are different levels of 'political cleanliness', Thaksin being a particularly unclean and influencial specimen.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Grover

[jumnien]

There are different levels of 'political cleanliness', Thaksin being a particularly unclean specimen.

...pot calling the kettle black?

[Galong]

I much prefer overt corruption (Thailand) to covert corruption (US).

[London Crocodile]

This piece of writing only highlights how dumb upcountry folk are.

[Grover]

...pot calling the kettle black?

hey, the turnip truck is getting away.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Grover

[PhilHarries]

I don't see too many Farangs complain about getting away with a 200 Baht on the spot fine by the Highway Police for an offence that would have gotten them Banned for 6 months in the UK.

So I guess Farangs feel certain corruption is fine, as long as Farangs feel they benefit personally.

If it only benefits Thai people, then more Farang venom will be discharged from their yellowing fangs.

Thai's only pay 50 Baht. This I was told by a Thai colleague who passed me on the way to work while I was making my "contribution" to the Secret Policeman's Ball. "How much you pay?". "200 Baht". "Hahahahaha, Thai only pay 50".

I don't think corruption benefits any people in the long run. Do you think the millions paid in back handers for the new airport actually benefits the ordinary working class Thai? Do you think that the back handers actually contributed to a better quality job which provides many people with their first and last impressions of Thailand?

But I do take your point there is, in all societies, an acceptable level of corruption and indeed crime. In the UK many people get very angry at the level of fraudulent claims on the welfare system. However tax avoidance is very much viewed as a "Jack the Lad" scam everyone would like to pull. No matter that both offences are no more than theft.

[kmart]

This piece of writing only highlights how dumb upcountry folk are.

Maybe. When about 95% of the country can be described as "upcountry" then we have a problem...

The Thai press is so "Bangkok-centric" in its reporting and attitudes. They would try and impose their well-educated pie-in-the-sky morality on the rural Thais, yet would hate to pay any extra taxes that might equalise development in Thailand; or indeed actually share anything with those pesky, dark-skinned Isaarn people. Education for the majority of this country is always last thing on any government's budget too.

Thai people are a bit like water. They always take the easiest path towards any goal, be it driving a car or motorcycle; promotion at work; exam results; etc.

Basically they have historically never had to try too hard to achieve anything; everything you could eat grows here; no Winter; no crop rotation; war (of any real import), famine, pestilence, disease; etc.

In short, their culture is based on having plenty, and not having to tighten their belts, plan ahead, get tough on wasteful corruption, etc.

Its only by living in a culture like this that sometimes you have some perspective and appreciation of your own culture

[Robski]

Since the ousting of the former prime minister, much has been said and written about corruption at the highest level, but perhaps it could be argued that the essence of corruption is as embedded within every class of Thai society as making merit at the local temple.

It's the same in any society, Thaksin is the evil bogey man everyone loves to blame, he may have benefitted the most, but he is still just the front man for the establishment. Thats politics for you, smoke and mirrors, the punters love a good deception.

[Creeper]

I don't see too many Farangs complain about getting away with a 200 Baht on the spot fine by the Highway Police for an offence that would have gotten them Banned for 6 months in the UK.

So I guess Farangs feel certain corruption is fine, as long as Farangs feel they benefit personally.

If it only benefits Thai people, then more Farang venom will be discharged from their yellowing fangs.

Maigo6, of course you are right, but, on an internet forum with mainly Farang posters, its not gonna ever be fair is it?

Thais will always be bashed on here, cos the Farangs know its the only place they can do it, in reality Farangs just get on with it, or leave.

And I don't notice a mass exodus out of Thailand.

[Mobi]

This piece of writing only highlights how dumb upcountry folk are.

Really?

Very friendly comments to your kind host country I must say.

And this from someone who only two days ago made the following post:

quote:.....100 percent correct, the comment was racist beyond belief, and coming from someone who claims to be helping the people here, I find it very hard to stomach...... unquote

And wasn't it one of your self-righteous, smug, "co-bashing Mobi" gang who asked me if I would dare make my comments when Thais were present?

Try going up to Issan and telling them how dumb they are

[dukkha]

London Crocodile: your odious comment on upcountry folk should have you banned from this forum!! What an insult!! People have been banned for far less contemptible statements...Crocodile indeed!!

[Indifferent]

Maybe. When about 95% of the country can be described as "upcountry" then we have a problem...

The Thai press is so "Bangkok-centric" in its reporting and attitudes. They would try and impose their well-educated pie-in-the-sky morality on the rural Thais, yet would hate to pay any extra taxes that might equalise development in Thailand; or indeed actually share anything with those pesky, dark-skinned Isaarn people. Education for the majority of this country is always last thing on any government's budget too.

Thai people are a bit like water. They always take the easiest path towards any goal, be it driving a car or motorcycle; promotion at work; exam results; etc.

Basically they have historically never had to try too hard to achieve anything; everything you could eat grows here; no Winter; no crop rotation; war (of any real import), famine, pestilence, disease; etc.

In short, their culture is based on having plenty, and not having to tighten their belts, plan ahead, get tough on wasteful corruption, etc.

Its only by living in a culture like this that sometimes you have some perspective and appreciation of your own culture

Spot on. This is my view too. I remember reading an article a while ago which pretty much said this was the reason why most of the developed countries tend to be away from temperate zones. It basically said people had to be more inventive and use better planning to survive in harsher climates where food was difficult to cultivate. I think it goes a long way to explain a lot of Thailands idiosynchracies.

[Indifferent]

Maybe. When about 95% of the country can be described as "upcountry" then we have a problem...

The Thai press is so "Bangkok-centric" in its reporting and attitudes. They would try and impose their well-educated pie-in-the-sky morality on the rural Thais, yet would hate to pay any extra taxes that might equalise development in Thailand; or indeed actually share anything with those pesky, dark-skinned Isaarn people. Education for the majority of this country is always last thing on any government's budget too.

Thai people are a bit like water. They always take the easiest path towards any goal, be it driving a car or motorcycle; promotion at work; exam results; etc.

Basically they have historically never had to try too hard to achieve anything; everything you could eat grows here; no Winter; no crop rotation; war (of any real import), famine, pestilence, disease; etc.

In short, their culture is based on having plenty, and not having to tighten their belts, plan ahead, get tough on wasteful corruption, etc.

Its only by living in a culture like this that sometimes you have some perspective and appreciation of your own culture

Spot on. This is my view too. I remember reading an article a while ago which pretty much said this was the reason why most of the developed countries tend to be away from temperate zones. It basically said people had to be more inventive and use better planning to survive in harsher climates where food was difficult to cultivate. I think it goes a long way to explain a lot of Thailands idiosynchracies.

[kayo]

Where do I choose to live? THAILAND!!!

Corruption has been given a bad rap in the farang press, it's not so bad once you get used to it; I rather prefer it! There is a beautiful new airport built (filled with corruption) to whisk you away efficiently to less corrupt nations on earth. Myself and the family, we'll stay here, thank you.

This is my view too.

I've now lived in a couple of mid-level, sub-tropical countries, and I would choose them over England, whenever I have a choice in the matter.

I may have enjoyed england more say, 400 years ago.

Plus, it's the fact that the corrupution is more Overt. Learn the rules of the game, and everyone can play, not just the rich and high powered.

This, to me is the only difference with regards to corruption between farangland(s) and our chosen lands.

[GuestHouse]

Well that's an article on corruption in Thailand, it's not bad, but I don't think it goes far enough. Everything that the article mentions are 'symptoms' of corruption that lies in the heart of Thai values and cultural norms. I blame the whole Phu Yai system, but to argue that has a logical progression that would not be appreciated here.

However, in terms of ThaiVisa members there is something else that is interesting. Why Farangs are so happy with corruption here in Thailand.

The reason is quite simple. Corruption in Thailand works in their short term favor. They have enough money to bribe their way to get what they want. And enough money to cover the short falls that corruption creates.

So if getting your child/niece/nephew into the local school means a 'bung' well you can afford it. If the corruption in the school leads to the robbing of the stationary fund, well you can afford stationary for your kids. If the school dinner fund goes missing, well your kids don't rely on subsidized school meals.

So Jack's all right.

And sod the kids who are hurt by this corruption, or put your hand in your pocket to help with a welfare fund once and a while, police can be bought, why not peace of mind.

And then we can trot out the 'I love Thailand and Thai people', often closely followed by 'It's their system. I just live with it'.

Clearly the corruption is not just in the recipient of your 'bung'.

[terry57]

I don't see too many Farangs complain about getting away with a 200 Baht on the spot fine by the Highway Police for an offence that would have gotten them Banned for 6 months in the UK.

So I guess Farangs feel certain corruption is fine, as long as Farangs feel they benefit personally.

If it only benefits Thai people, then more Farang venom will be discharged from their yellowing fangs.

very nice points you raise here mate, and very true.

there would be a lot more farang rotting away in the big tiger if they had not been able to buy there way out of a drug bust especially regards koh phan gan's full moon party.

corruption is part of thailand and has always been this way.

it seems to work ok over here and as you have so rightly pointed out benefited many farang.

may pen rai.

[Mobi]

The reason is quite simple. Corruption in Thailand works in their short term favor. They have enough money to bribe their way to get what they want. And enough money to cover the short falls that corruption creates.

........

So Jack's all right.

As usual Guesthouse you are spot on. But of course it's not really the farangs that help perpetuate the system, for the simple reason that there's not enough of them.

I recall having a long discussion with a group of middle class Thais some years ago - I'm talking doctors, dentists, lawyers, merchants and the like who all lived and worked in Bangsaeng. They were a good bunch - loved their life, loved where they lived and generally enjoyed life to the full. None of them was weaalthy - they drove 2nd hand cars, and had modest houses, bought on mortgaes etc.

But to a man (and woman) they really didn't have any problems with day to day corruption. It was part of life, it made things easy - with the police, govenrnmment officials etc, and yes, it got their kids into better schools etc. They accepted it as part of their right, and more tellingly, felt no animostity to those at the top of the pile who gained enormously from corruption - after all one day they may also have a similar opportunity to get rich. So the last thing they wanted the govenment to do was to clean up on corruption - they liked it the way it was.

Corruption is so entrenched in the Thai psyche that it will take a generation or more to even make a start on changing it.

Edited December 2, 2006 by Mobi D'Ark

[London Crocodile]

As usual Guesthouse you are spot on.

He just said what i had already said, he just did it in such a clever way you did not realise he had said it.

[Naam]

I much prefer overt corruption (Thailand) to covert corruption (US).

i second this and agree wholeheartedly!

[psychedelix47]

F

Let's begin with the good old-fashioned upcountry family. Even before a toddler can walk and talk, his delirious daddy on his unlicensed motorbike is already showing off to him, his amazing driving skills. Approaching the traffic lights with half the family packed on the back like a row of squashed sardines, he shoots left, then right, and takes a dare-devil U-turn. Toddler is thrilled at how daddy can save precious time swerving around the traffic laws without having to wait 60 seconds at the lights. Then, on approaching a police box, Toddler is again amazed at the way Daddy, like magic, one-handedly grabs his helmet in the front basket and quickly sticks it on his head like a clumsy construction worker.

Anything wrong with doing it this way? Good luck to the dude, don't listen to some stuck-up coppers and anally retentive authorities, or the land of smiles will turn into the land of frowns, as most our homelands have already!

[chuchok]

Well,in the words of the wife "if there was no corruption in Thailand,it would be a much better place to live"

Simple really.

[Mobi]

He just said what i had already said, he just did it in such a clever way you did not realise he had said it.

[kayo]

This piece of writing only highlights how dumb upcountry folk are.

He just said what i had already said, he just did it in such a clever way you did not realise he had said it.

Your only posts on this thread are these: What were you trying to say but failed in terribly?

[London Crocodile]

What i said.