Accused of stealing money from safe

[Mickster58]

Hi all,

 

i am currently in patong, phuket where my thai wife works in a small guest house. I got here on monday i am staying for about 6 months, i usually help her here and there when she needs it although i am not working here. Anyway a aussie customer who has been here for 2 nights has lost 700 dollars which he believes was stolen from his safe... he was screaming at both us at 7am this morning accusing us of taking the money. Obviously neither of us have stolen the money. Him and his girlfriend have since gone to the police station.. just wanted to know if anyone else has been in a similar situation and what the possible outcome may be.

 

Cheers

[lopburi3]

You have just admitted illegally working so you might want to back out now or try to avoid any more police contact than required.

[roo860]

Who has access to the master key?

[impulse]

A few more details would be helpful:

 

Your wife works in a small guest house, but in what capacity?  Is she the owner or manager, or one of many staff and helpers?

As roo860 mentioned, who are the other possible thieves?  Is there CCTV of the access to that guest room?

Does the guest's girlfriend predate his current visit to Thailand, or was she recently acquired in country?

Does she have a new smartphone that would have tipped the bill at about $700?  (Okay, taking the piss there)

Do they have any evidence that the $700 actually existed, and they didn't put it somewhere else after a hard night of drinking?  (We all know that's virtually impossible to prove)

 

Your best course of action would be to find someplace else (preferably in a different town) to stay for a few days, or the WP issues may make the $700 look like chump change.  This is one of the many circumstances that cast a light on things that would normally fly under the radar.  And the cops love pointing at (recently blurred out) faces on the front page.  It deflects attention from the fact that they'll probably never find the $700.

 

 

[Peterw42]

If its one of those electronic safes were the customer enters there own code, the code is often wiped if it has been accessed with master key/code. if the customers code still works, proof you didnt access it.

[Rob13]

27 minutes ago, Mickster58 said:

Obviously neither of us have stolen the money

 

Not obvious to the Aussie no doubt. Anybody with access to the room would be the obviuos culprit. And you working illegally doesn't put you in a good light. Believe I'd lay low and let the wife handle things.

[stupidfarang]

If you do not have a work permit you cannot work, so do not admit to helping the wife in any work related way, do not stand behind the reception desk (immigration will say if they see you that you are working) do not even sweep the floor, keep your head down and let your wife deal with the police

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

If its one of those electronic safes were the customer enters there own code, the code is often wiped if it has been accessed with master key/code. if the customers code still works, proof you didnt access it.

 

Unless it's a real advanced one that records all activity, how would you prove that?  Assuming the guest (or one of them anyway) is making a false claim, couldn't he/she have just reset the code back to what it was.

 

I'm actually curious, not trying to be argumentative.

[roo860]

The only problem I can see is if you vanish for a while the guy can tell the cops you were there, then you weren't?
Then again the guy may not have had 700 dollars in the safe.

[Kwasaki]

37 minutes ago, Mickster58 said:

Anyway a aussie customer who has been here for 2 nights has lost 700 dollars which he believes was stolen from his safe... he was screaming at both us at 7am this morning accusing us of taking the money.

 

Why would he be accusing both of you.?

[impulse]

2 minutes ago, roo860 said:

The only problem I can see is if you vanish for a while the guy can tell the cops you were there, then you weren't?
Then again the guy may not have had 700 dollars in the safe.

 

Some day, an enterprising soul is going to add a $20 internal camera to hotel in-room safes that will discretely record everything that happens to that safe to a hard drive on the hotel network...

 

Whoever does, please send me 1/2 of 1% royalty for the idea...  I'm not greedy.  Hungry, yes.  But not greedy.

[Rob13]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Some day, an enterprising soul is going to add a $20 internal camera to hotel in-room safes that will discretely record everything that happens to that safe to a hard drive on the hotel network...

 

Whoever does, please send me 1/2 of 1% royalty for the idea...  I'm not greedy.  Hungry, yes.  But not greedy.

A spycam in a hotel room, bad idea

Edited November 6, 2016 by Rob13

[lj cm]

The Police will come and talk with your wife.

They will take a look at the room and safe.

And; that will be the end of it. 

[impulse]

4 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A spycam in a hotel, never work

 

Ho Ho Ho.  I laugh on you.  What do you think the hotel staff is watching in the back room when they're laughing so hard in the middle of the night?  Certainly not Thai soaps.

 

And yes, that's me taking the piss again...

 

Edit:  My concept would have the spycam working only when the safe door is open.

Edited November 6, 2016 by impulse

[Peterw42]

14 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Unless it's a real advanced one that records all activity, how would you prove that?  Assuming the guest (or one of them anyway) is making a false claim, couldn't he/she have just reset the code back to what it was.

 

I'm actually curious, not trying to be argumentative.

 

if the customers code still opens the safe, thats proof that the hotel has not overridden and wiped the code. if what the customer is sayin is true then the customer would go to open the safe and his code would no longer work. 

[Rob13]

A secret spy cam for the staff is OK. A legal one  for CYA purposes, never work

[Peterw42]

check the rubbish in the guys room for a currency exchange reciept for $700. 

[daveAustin]

Do you have a 'leave valuables in room safe at your risk' disclaimer?

[impulse]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

if the customers code still opens the safe, thats proof that the hotel has not overridden and wiped the code. if what the customer is sayin is true then the customer would go to open the safe and his code would no longer work. 

 

Except the safe will still open, otherwise no guest could use the safe after the master key wipes the code.  Again, just trying to figure it all out...

[impulse]

6 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

A secret spy cam for the staff is OK. A legal one  for CYA purposes, never work

 

Well, I wouldn't call it okay... but your train of thought is valid.  My idea needs work.

 

As cheap as sensors and wifi devices have gotten with IOT, it seems like it would be pretty simple to design a reasonably priced in-room safe that would record all activity and even trigger an alarm at the front desk if the safe were opened under circumstances that wouldn't be appropriate.  Like the guest's keycard isn't in the power slot and the maid's passkey is.  It would be pretty easy to come up with the logic.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Except the safe will still open, otherwise no guest could use the safe after the master key wipes the code.  Again, just trying to figure it all out...

 

you will notice when you check in that the safe is open, ready for you to setup a code. if you check in and its shut then yes you cant open it and have to call reception. 

guy comes back from 7/11 and the safe is open, proof that someone either used his code or the reset code. guy comes back from 7/11 and his code no longer works, proof the safe has been opened and locked with another code.

guy comes back from 7/11 and his code works, proof that it hasnt been opened or reset.

[impulse]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

guy comes back from 7/11 and his code works, proof that it hasnt been opened or reset.

 

Unless the GF was in on it.  Opened under the code, then closed and reset to the same code.  Just pondering the possibilities.  She may actually be a delightful woman, and totally honest.

[Rob13]

8 minutes ago, impulse said:

Well, I wouldn't call it okay... but your train of thought is valid.  My idea needs work.

 

 

Agreeed. OK legally until it gets discovered by a guest. Maybe a small cam built in the wall of the safe might work.

 

I don't trust those hotel safes anyway. Any thing I don't want to lose I just keep on me.Or leave it in the bank. This day and age not much reason to carry around alot of cash.Just use your ATM card, plenty of cash machines around.

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, impulse said:

 

Unless the GF was in on it.  Opened under the code, then closed and reset to the same code.  Just pondering the possibilities.  She may actually be a delightful woman, and totally honest.

 

It does open up that possibility. I think you may have solved it.

I used to run a pub with safes in the room, and go through this senario with pissed people all the time. There is a logical process you can follow to prove the safe hasn't been opened using the master reset. 

 

[impulse]

10 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It does open up that possibility. I think you may have solved it.

I used to run a pub with safes in the room, and go through this senario with pissed people all the time. There is a logical process you can follow to prove the safe hasn't been opened using the master reset. 

 

Perish the thought of me solving it.  Like a lot of folks, I don't trust hotel safes when it's so often that the fox is guarding the henhouse.  But I like discussing options and other people's experiences.  That way, I don't have to take the learning lumps the hard way.  Yours is especially valuable since you've probably seen a lot of the possible scenarios.

 

Edit:  And getting back to the OP's predicament, your input may open the path to a discussion with the Aussie if the guy is interested in getting to the truth.  Though I still think the OP's best course of action is to lay low...

Edited November 6, 2016 by impulse

[lostinisaan]

35 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

 

if the customers code still opens the safe, thats proof that the hotel has not overridden and wiped the code. if what the customer is sayin is true then the customer would go to open the safe and his code would no longer work. 

 

 

 That's a good way to proof how reliable the Aussies' accusation was. OP, make a few days holiday somewhere else, even standing behind the reception is considered work. 

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, impulse said:

 

Perish the thought of me solving it.  Like a lot of folks, I don't trust hotel safes when it's so often that the fox is guarding the henhouse.  But I like discussing options and other people's experiences.  That way, I don't have to take the learning lumps the hard way.  Yours is especially valuable since you've probably seen a lot of the possible scenarios.

 

It comes down to the customers accusations. did he come home to find the safe open and empty or did he open it and find it empty. 

At the end of the day there are 2 likely scenarios, he spent or lost the money in a drunken state or the girlfriend stole it.

[impulse]

7 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

It comes down to the customers accusations. did he come home to find the safe open and empty or did he open it and find it empty. 

At the end of the day there are 2 likely scenarios, he spent or lost the money in a drunken state or the girlfriend stole it.

 

 

Tough to separate the facts of the case from the emotions when someone's hotel room (personal space and safety) has been violated.  That's a highly charged emotional event.  

 

Coming right out and suggesting the GF is fraught with risk based on emotions.  You've given the OP some questions to ask the Aussie that could walk him down the path to his own conclusions, one direction or another.  Maybe it was her, maybe the answers will lead to another possibility.

[JHolmesJr]

why stay in a hotel where ur girlfriend works?

 

makes for problems even for innocent matters like her visiting your room.

 

dont change hotels now or it'll look like you're involved

 

in future let thais solve their own problems

 

they have their own unfathomable system

 

 

[impulse]

One other point of curiosity:  On the card opened lock systems typical of small to medium sized hotels and guest houses, is there any way to tell whose card opened the door at what time?  For example, is it possible to tell the maid entered at 10:00 using her card, then the maintenance guy entered at 12:00, and the guest entered at 15:00?