Prominent British rights activist Andy Hall, fearing for safety, leaves Thailand

[AleG]

10 minutes ago, Goingmad said:

Run, run as fast as you can. You can't catch me; I'm the Ginger Bread Man.

He should have stayed; continued to fight; if he believed.

As far as I know he faces a slam dunk case of criminal defamation from a chicken farm, after a labor dispute regarding unpaid overtime had been solved he went ahead anyway accusing them of slavery, this caused the farm to close when the company it was a subsidiary of cut them loose to avoid problems. About 100 people lost their jobs over that.

[pookiki]

Discretion is the better part of valor.  Fighting defamation cases in Thailand represent a Herculean task that are lost 99% of the time.  And such laws are the norm, not the exception, in most countries in the region.

 

Good luck Andy. Be well and prosper.

[claffey]

Why do Westerners feel that it is appropriate to interfere in other countries? His interference cost over 100 people their jobs. The problem is Westerners compare the salaries earned by labourers to similar jobs in their own countries. The minimum wage here is low but it is more than the labourers would get in their own countries. They earn enough to live here and send some money home. Granted, conditions are horrendous but why should some Westerner feel that it his place to change the system here? Go home to your own countries and fix them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[baboon]

3 minutes ago, claffey said:

Why do Westerners feel that it is appropriate to interfere in other countries? His interference cost over 100 people their jobs. The problem is Westerners compare the salaries earned by labourers to similar jobs in their own countries. The minimum wage here is low but it is more than the labourers would get in their own countries. They earn enough to live here and send some money home. Granted, conditions are horrendous but why should some Westerner feel that it his place to change the system here? Go home to your own countries and fix them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I see the smear campaign is now in full swing...

[Goingmad]

1 minute ago, claffey said:

Why do Westerners feel that it is appropriate to interfere in other countries? His interference cost over 100 people their jobs. The problem is Westerners compare the salaries earned by labourers to similar jobs in their own countries. The minimum wage here is low but it is more than the labourers would get in their own countries. They earn enough to live here and send some money home. Granted, conditions are horrendous but why should some Westerner feel that it his place to change the system here? Go home to your own countries and fix them. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Same as when some Hollywood movie stars went after Nike about 6-8 years ago; saying that it was wrong to make shoes in Thailand for $ 2.00 / pair and sell for $100 in the states. Nike got tried of the the bad press and moved to Vietnam.

2,000 Thai's lost their jobs. Many from the same families. Nike was paying 10 % more then average wage. The workers were happy. Then they lose their jobs; and the Hollywood Stars shut up ! Sad.

[WhizBang]

Cannot say I am surprised, especially after his recent decision to sue the company AND government and police officials .   So this country gets yet another black eye from the actions, and inactions, of Thai officials.

 

This country has no rule of law.  Third world and always will be.
 

[DLang]

A foreigner goes out of their way to cause them problems. 

 

They cause them as much problems as they can until they F Off.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

No doubt he will write/publish more in the future. He'll just be doing it from a place where he won't get thrown in jail for speaking the truth.

 

It doesn't seem to be the prospect of further legal cases and maybe even jail that worry him now. He realizes he may have crossed a certain line. Probably making a wise choice.

[Baerboxer]

14 minutes ago, Goingmad said:

Same as when some Hollywood movie stars went after Nike about 6-8 years ago; saying that it was wrong to make shoes in Thailand for $ 2.00 / pair and sell for $100 in the states. Nike got tried of the the bad press and moved to Vietnam.

2,000 Thai's lost their jobs. Many from the same families. Nike was paying 10 % more then average wage. The workers were happy. Then they lose their jobs; and the Hollywood Stars shut up ! Sad.

 

You think the workers were all happy? Whilst how much do Nike CEO and senior people receive?

 

The workers making smart phones and the like were killing themselves - so ecstatic. 

 

Paying a fraction above an average wage does not mean that the workforce isn't being exploited. But the basis of "globalization" is in exploiting lower cost economies. Western MNC's are the masters of this. 

Edited November 7, 2016 by Baerboxer

[Goingmad]

3 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

It doesn't seem to be the prospect of further legal cases and maybe even jail that worry him now. He realizes he may have crossed a certain line. Probably making a wise choice.

He will go work for Green Peace. Try to save the Whales or Cod Fish;  as they don't carry guns. Now nothing to be afraid.

Green Peace will pay him. And not care about Asian people anymore. Be careful of the sharks; they can bite you in the butt.

[Minnehaha]

Not surprised. 

He was also helping the attorney(s) defending the 2 Burmese in jail for murder. Or at least he was when they were preparing the initial defense.

[Bangkok Barry]

2 hours ago, maxman71 said:

 I've come across way too many grizzled old, fat-ass expats sitting on bar stools chasing 20-something Thai tarts

 

You should keep better company then.

[OMGImInPattaya]

It's for the best...Hall has done more than his share of the work on these issues and it's up to Thais to pick-up the ball and run with it. However, for Thailand, the number of foreign and Thai national NGO workers, human rights activists, labour leaders, and journalists forced into exile is beginning to take its toll on how the country is perceived abroad. Eventually, Thailand will suffer severe damage to its export industries due to the economic and political conditions they continue to expose while in exile. The culture of killing the messenger, which is so prevalent in many Asian cultures, is doing the nation no good.

[Goingmad]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

You think the workers were all happy? Whilst how much do Nike CEO and senior people receive?

 

The workers making smart phones and the like were killing themselves - so ecstatic. 

 

Paying a fraction above an average wage does not mean that the workforce isn't being exploited.

Nike does not make smart phones.

Nike paid 10 % more then the average, Thai worker, were making for other companies ! So the workers were happy !

The workers were not complaining about 10 % higher wages. But they complained when they all lost their jobs.

They complained to Hollywood for help, to feed their families. But Hollywood was silent; because Hollywood movie stars

caused all the problems. They they stopped talking about this issue. Many Thai's killed themselves during this time.

 

 

 

 

[Toscano]

I would say a wise move , it is not for a foreigner to campaign for human/worker rights in a foreign land .  It is the the same as Christian missionaries going to preach religion in countries of another religious faith .  Countries like Thailand have an economic benefit in the world market , because workers are paid very little or abused in some way .

The western world has to a large extent priced itself out of the market , paying higher wages that make the end product too expensive .

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, Toscano said:

I would say a wise move , it is not for a foreigner to campaign for human/worker rights in a foreign land .  It is the the same as Christian missionaries going to preach religion in countries of another religious faith .  Countries like Thailand have an economic benefit in the world market , because workers are paid very little or abused in some way .

The western world has to a large extent priced itself out of the market , paying higher wages that make the end product too expensive .

You forget that higher productivity in the West makes the components cheaper. I worked for an Automobile firm that supplied parts to be assembled throughout Asia. In order to reduce the import tax some parts had to be made locally, they were of poorer quality and more expensive than if they had been made in Europe. 

[elgordo38]

Wise move live to fight another day. Being a one man corruption band is a hard tune to carry. Staying here in Thailand your days would definitely be numbered. There would definitely be a target on your back and I doubt if the BIB would make any great effort in protecting you. 

[BlackJack]

4 hours ago, simon43 said:

It is perhaps worth explaining how 'easy' it is to cause a foreigner to be barred from leaving Thailand.  It doesn't require a Court of Law to seize their passport, nor does it require any presentation of accusation or evidence to that Court or the poilce.

 

All it requires is filing of a charge with the police of a criminal act committed by that foreigner, such as stealing 50 baht.  Stealing is a criminal offence, not a civil offence.

 

After registering the charge with the local police (costs 30 baht I seem to recall to file a charge), it is a very simple process to then visit your local immigration office and ask that a bar be placed on the foreigner leaving the country. The immigration computers at all airports and border crossings are linked together and check for those trying to enter Thailand who are barred from doing so, and for those trying to exit Thailand who are barred from doing so.

 

Voila!  Once you name is on that list of foreigners barred from leaving Thailand, you cannot leave the country (by legal means), without going to a Court of Law to try to get the charges dropped or resolved.

 

It is the ease by which anyone (Thai or foreigner) who has a grudge against another person can get that person's name added to the immigration computer blacklist that makes a complete mockery of the due process of law.

 

 

 

the only authority that can hold your passport is the courts.

[elgordo38]

9 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

You forget that higher productivity in the West makes the components cheaper. I worked for an Automobile firm that supplied parts to be assembled throughout Asia. In order to reduce the import tax some parts had to be made locally, they were of poorer quality and more expensive than if they had been made in Europe. 

Kind of reminds me of that tourist phrase the good in the bad out. 

[elgordo38]

2 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

the only authority that can hold your passport is the courts.

Maybe its much like a trip to your local immigration office. They seem to change the rules at will and thumb their nose at the central immigration 10 commandments. 

[sandemara]

When you read about this sort of news item, and see the report and video in this currrent TV series of news items about the TV "pesonality" <deleted> beating up on a m/cycle rider who refuses to defend himself because he's aware of his assailant's hi-so status in the media, the calamities visited upon rice farmers etc,  it suggests a very unhealthy environment of privilege has been allowed to develop throughout the nation. I can't help wondering how long the lid can be kept on the growing resentment between the privileged and the poor when abuse becomes so casual and open.  There are stark, uncrossable lines appearing to divide society even more sharply in recent months. I don't think I'd like to be around when the bloodletting starts; it might be completely uncontrollable. Do the elite really believe the submissive tolerance will continue despite any provocation?

[soalbundy]

3 minutes ago, sandemara said:

When you read about this sort of news item, and see the report and video in this currrent TV series of news items about the TV "pesonality" <deleted> beating up on a m/cycle rider who refuses to defend himself because he's aware of his assailant's hi-so status in the media, the calamities visited upon rice farmers etc,  it suggests a very unhealthy environment of privilege has been allowed to develop throughout the nation. I can't help wondering how long the lid can be kept on the growing resentment between the privileged and the poor when abuse becomes so casual and open.  There are stark, uncrossable lines appearing to divide society even more sharply in recent months. I don't think I'd like to be around when the bloodletting starts; it might be completely uncontrollable. Do the elite really believe the submissive tolerance will continue despite any provocation?

yes they do and the past has shown them to be right although big changes appear to be on the way, perhaps the pressure cooker is getting a few cracks

[OMGImInPattaya]

6 hours ago, Thailand said:

And the Thai Visa survey showing that 50% of members had also considered leaving Thailand came as a surprise to many? 

I doubt many of them work in Natural Fruit canning plantations...so yes, the question is still why.

Edited November 7, 2016 by OMGImInPattaya

[Old Croc]

19 minutes ago, BlackJack said:

the only authority that can hold your passport is the courts.

I know of several cases where the Police have held passports and refused to return them until large "bail" amounts were paid. The cases never came near the courts.

 

Oh, you mean legally!

[saminoz]

1 hour ago, DiscoDan said:

There were a lot of accusations on social media by other activists in the Koh Tao case of Andy misusing money from the fundraiser for the Burmese, He also opened a new fundraiser only a few days asking for USD 10k for legal fees in a case against a chicken company. Last time I checked it only had raised $150, maybe he ran out of money? 

 

Aren't you being a little bit disingenuous here?  You, as CSI-Samui, along with a few other like minded individuals have been the ones promoting this unproven allegation.

It's a bit sneaky and cowardly to try to hi-jack this thread under this alias to further your (and the other usuals suspects') agendas isn't it?

 

There is no doubt that there were (still is) problems with the defence team and their strategy, including one member of it taking money destined for the defence investigation into the DNA farce but keeping it for himself whilst misrepresenting himself as an Australian barrister of note (someone that, unfortunately, Andy continues to endorse).  But until you can absolutely offer proof that AH misused any of the funds raised for the B2 defence keep your opinions to yourself and don't hide behind yet another alias sniggering like a silly schoolboy about the apparent failure of his latest attempt to raise funds to fight yet another human rights issue in LOS. 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 hours ago, tilaceer said:

 

50% of 572 members had considered leaving.

I don't think it would be incorrect to say that when I rolled into Thailand many years ago, that the % of members wishing to leave would have been counted on one hand.

 

NB yes I know TV didn't exist back then, along with the computer as we know it, mobile phones, and 0% interest on savings. However, I'm sure most get the comparison.

[DiscoDan]

17 minutes ago, saminoz said:

Aren't you being a little bit disingenuous here?  You, as CSI-Samui, along with a few other like minded individuals have been the ones promoting this unproven allegation.

It's a bit sneaky and cowardly to try to hi-jack this thread under this alias to further your (and the other usuals suspects') agendas isn't it?

 

There is no doubt that there were (still is) problems with the defence team and their strategy, including one member of it taking money destined for the defence investigation into the DNA farce but keeping it for himself whilst misrepresenting himself as an Australian barrister of note (someone that, unfortunately, Andy continues to endorse).  But until you can absolutely offer proof that AH misused any of the funds raised for the B2 defence keep your opinions to yourself and don't hide behind yet another alias sniggering like a silly schoolboy about the apparent failure of his latest attempt to raise funds to fight yet another human rights issue in LOS. 

I have not made the allegations they have been made by several activists who were involved in the case, he does claim on his facebook that they have a set of transparent books, but he refuses to show them.

 

[bokningar]

5 hours ago, cumgranosalum said:

I think many who post on TV can sympathise with this man, to a greater or lesser extent we all feel the might of the Thai authorities every time we speak..........Once out of Thailand I too will again feel free to write/say/post whatever I like.

No plans to come back then?

[Artben]

7 hours ago, Thailand said:

And the Thai Visa survey showing that 50% of members had also considered leaving Thailand came as a surprise to many? 

 Considered yes, but how many will actually leave? Talk is cheap 

 

[al007]

7 hours ago, Somtamnication said:

The state of this country with regards to this issue and other "rights" is very very troubling. 

 

I was going to click I like, because I am in agreement

 

I choose to live here and am very happy, but we need to watch what we say on open forum I am sure it is monitored and if we say too much who knows

 

All my communications in and out are encrypted, not that I have anything to hide but just in case

 

We make our own luck