2 hours ago, stephen tracy said:

 

It's not as unfair as rampant exploitation, whether it be here on in the West. It certainly could be argued that it is wiser to look away if your concerns are purely looking out for yourself, but it's not "better" to look away and ignore a problem that will fester.  It's a bit like witnessing a nasty crime - like a child rape - and not doing anything to stop it. 

Totally inapropriate caomparison. Child Rape?  That is like saying speeding is illegal and you should be in jail for 20 years - like for murder. Besides it is illegal in Thailand and even a hiso would be charged (probably).  

You need to take your western values and beliefs and park them here - or you too will be in the trouble Adam got himself into.

Fair? No! But this is not the west. It is far better (for you) and wiser (for all) to look away and not get involved. Sanctimonious complaining about how 'the natives' behave is a throw back to colonialism, and Thailand was not colonised.

6 minutes ago, together said:

Styria desperately needs you.

If you mean Syria, I spent 9 months there, but it's too much of a lost cause.  Thailand, on the other hand, still has a chance at joining the 21st century.  Anyway, I'm not sure there's such a thing as Syria in anymore, I prefer to refer to these days as 'Syraq'. 

6 minutes ago, Bob9 said:

Totally inapropriate caomparison. Child Rape?  That is like saying speeding is illegal and you should be in jail for 20 years - like for murder. Besides it is illegal in Thailand and even a hiso would be charged (probably).  

You need to take your western values and beliefs and park them here - or you too will be in the trouble Adam got himself into.

Fair? No! But this is not the west. It is far better (for you) and wiser (for all) to look away and not get involved. Sanctimonious complaining about how 'the natives' behave is a throw back to colonialism, and Thailand was not colonised.

1) the principal is exactly the same, look away and do nothing.  2) hisos are highly unlikely to face punishment regardless of what they do.  3) they are not 'western' values, they are modern values,, and my 'beliefs' are mine alone, they are not beholden to any particular hemisphere.  4) I will never look away, bury my head in the sand and say nothing if I disagree with something, irrespective of geo-political boundaries drawn on a map, it is not 'better' for me, nor 'wiser', to do so.  5) At no point did I refer to the population of Thailand as 'natives'.  6) backwardness is a cancer. 

Curious how 3 users who pestered and trashed almost every post about the murders in Koh Tao, come here to trash a post where Andy Hall (that was involved in the case) is mentioned... Very curious.

44 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

1) the principal is exactly the same, look away and do nothing.  2) hisos are highly unlikely to face punishment regardless of what they do.  3) they are not 'western' values, they are modern values,, and my 'beliefs' are mine alone, they are not beholden to any particular hemisphere.  4) I will never look away, bury my head in the sand and say nothing if I disagree with something, irrespective of geo-political boundaries drawn on a map, it is not 'better' for me, nor 'wiser', to do so.  5) At no point did I refer to the population of Thailand as 'natives'.  6) backwardness is a cancer. 

 

So if you are ok taking the risk..and knowing "judgement" could (for various offences) have you wind up in Thai prison 15 years in a room with 40 others, eating fish head soup every day. 

Yes certainly go ahead.

 

I will bring you in some cigarets and pack of crisps should you encounter the bad luck 

 

2 minutes ago, bamukloy said:

 

So if you are ok taking the risk..and knowing "judgement" could (for various offences) have you wind up in Thai prison 15 years in a room with 40 others, eating fish head soup every day. 

Yes certainly go ahead.

 

I will bring you in some cigarets and pack of crisps should you encounter the bad luck 

 

Appreciate the offer.  Salt and vinegar. 

1 hour ago, stephen tracy said:

1) the principal is exactly the same, look away and do nothing.  2) hisos are highly unlikely to face punishment regardless of what they do.  3) they are not 'western' values, they are modern values,, and my 'beliefs' are mine alone, they are not beholden to any particular hemisphere.  4) I will never look away, bury my head in the sand and say nothing if I disagree with something, irrespective of geo-political boundaries drawn on a map, it is not 'better' for me, nor 'wiser', to do so.  5) At no point did I refer to the population of Thailand as 'natives'.  6) backwardness is a cancer. 

 

Good luck with that 'attitude' - hope not to read about you in the news.

 

13 minutes ago, stephen tracy said:

Appreciate the offer.  Salt and vinegar. 

 

We can joke about it but they already have the law that foriegners mustnt meddle in politics.

From there it is not a big stretch for them to 

ban foreigners meddling, or even commenting on court cases or Thai justice system.

Completely possible this day and age

Nonsense Post Removed. Reply to the Topic, do not Attack the Posters

Just a thought, but how long does an expat have to live in Thailand before becoming a sheep. I thought expats were just guests, but some seem to have gone full Thai. Never go full Thai.

14 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

But I wouldn't as 1. I'm not a thai so I keep out of there buisness and 2. I'm not a dogooding tree hugger. legitimate 555555

So why bother commenting if you want to stay out of their business and what's it got to do with tree hugging, it was about exploiting workers?

Back in my day it was very common at home to work 14+ hour day.

Supposed to get paid for 12hrs per day, but they would adjust it down to 11hours to account for your 1hr luchtime..which you got 30 mins.

 

And this physical working fast as you can all day with superviser watching..not sleeping and play on phones.

 

 This was expected of you and if complained you will get a smack on your head saying "you lucky to have a job" 

 

We didnt cry for injustice and certainly no-one came to fight for us.

 

Our human history is shocking. labour working till they drop in sweatshops, children work sewing machines all through Europe, UK etc

probably paid enough to buy 1 loaf of bread a day.

 

If you have no money and try steal the bread in desperation..they would send you to Australia.lol

 

America..slavery..say no more.

 

Even modern times they flee from Europe to Australia for a better life, but to find yourself working 14h day under a blazing sun for pennies.

 

Life is a bitch..(or it was) thats when your not sent to war to kill people and get killed yourself.

 

Considering the Asian standard, i dont think these workers had it so tough.

 

Plenty of exploitation happening in your own country i would think.

 

Go fix that up and let the Asians decide themselves what they will tolerate..

up to them, not up to farang as your gf will tell you

54 minutes ago, Artisi said:

So why bother commenting if you want to stay out of their business and what's it got to do with tree hugging, it was about exploiting workers?

Because i was asked a question and i answered it that's why. A activist, tree hugger,, green peace nosy sods, there all the same to me all trying to force people to see the world through there eyes and thoughts only.

4 minutes ago, bamukloy said:

Back in my day it was very common at home to work 14+ hour day.

Supposed to get paid for 12hrs per day, but they would adjust it down to 11hours to account for your 1hr luchtime..which you got 30 mins.

 

And this physical working fast as you can all day with superviser watching..not sleeping and play on phones.

 

 This was expected of you and if complained you will get a smack on your head saying "you lucky to have a job" 

 

We didnt cry for injustice and certainly no-one came to fight for us.

 

Our human history is shocking. labour working till they drop in sweatshops, children work sewing machines all through Europe, UK etc

probably paid enough to buy 1 loaf of bread a day.

 

If you have no money and try steal the bread in desperation..they would send you to Australia.lol

 

America..slavery..say no more.

 

Even modern times they flee from Europe to Australia for a better life, but to find yourself working 14h day under a blazing sun for pennies.

 

Life is a bitch..(or it was) thats when your not sent to war to kill people and get killed yourself.

 

Considering the Asian standard, i dont think these workers had it so tough.

 

Plenty of exploitation happening in your own country i would think.

 

Go fix that up and let the Asians decide themselves what they will tolerate..

up to them, not up to farang as your gf will tell you

Do you watch and read the news?

3 hours ago, Wilsonandson said:

Just a thought, but how long does an expat have to live in Thailand before becoming a sheep. I thought expats were just guests, but some seem to have gone full Thai. Never go full Thai.

34 years but still don't agree with a lot that goes on here and stand up for my rights. Doesn't mean I don't love the country though.

 

The plight of the migrant worker needed raising and good on Finnwatch for doing so. Pity the factory involved was operated by a nasty, vindictive family with political connections. Rather than trying to improve things the owner is keeping his business in the spotlight for all the wrong reasons.    

1 hour ago, baboon said:

Do you watch and read the news?

 

No sir. Give it up years ago.

To depressing

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Oh dear touch a raw truth nerve have we. such an angry person replying with all the gusto of a tree hugger surley you are the sheep blindly following a man who's whole point in his sad little life is to make himself look good whilst actualy doing nothing but causing sorrow. but you carry on kindly following as a mere sheep and funding this buffon life style. For the record my children are very proud of me and my achievements in this world can yours say the same.

Calling people ignorant is very I'll advised  when replying to other people's views and beliefs it merely prove you lack of knowledge and reasoning.

Who the hell is this shill clan is this another made up TV saying please enlighten me. If someone likes a post that's down to them it's an anonymous forum I have no idea who people are.

You have a dislike of so called "tree huggers" as you so disrespectfully label human rights activists. Without them then governments and organizations can act with impunity.

 

Unfortunately in Thailand being murdered in the name of being a "tree hugger" is common practice. With over 50 killed in Thailand in the last 20 years making it one of the worlds offenders of violence towards Human rights workers. http://www.lukeduggleby.com/for-those-who-died-trying/ Thankfully the majority of people do not share your opinions on human rights.

 

Migrant workers say they have lost a key advocate in the region, after British activist Andy Hall fled Thailand yesterday citing fears for his own safety. http://www.mmtimes.com/index.php/national-news/23530-migrant-workers-lose-key-ally-as-hall-flees-thailand.html

In Thailand Tree huggers get chopped down..along with the tree.

 

" without them governments and organizations can act with impunity"

 

maybe in other countries

 

but in Thailand?

Does judges, police or governnent ever listen to any activist?

 

Especially a farang one. Pffft

 

the UN not my father

 

 

44 minutes ago, Bkk Brian said:

You have a dislike of so called "tree huggers" as you so disrespectfully label human rights activists. Without them then governments and organizations can act with impunity.

 

Unfortunately in Thailand being murdered in the name of being a "tree hugger" is common practice. With over 50 killed in Thailand in the last 20 years making it one of the worlds offenders of violence towards Human rights workers. http://www.lukeduggleby.com/for-those-who-died-trying/ Thankfully the majority of people do not share your opinions on human rights.

 

To be disrespectful you have to have respect for then in the first place I have none. If you belive the majority even care about what tree huggers and nosy parkers get up to in other countries that has sod all to do with them I think you might find you are wrong. 

How do you know what my opinions are on human rights. Beacuse I dislike tree huggers and nosy parkers butting in and in the end not helping anyone then running away leaving others to pick up the pieces you wrongly very wrongly belive you know my views on human rights. 

16 hours ago, MiKT said:

 

Well, would you be kind enough to please substantiate your opinion about working in Thailand. What do you do?  Are so qualified in so many different fields and disciplines that you can make such a sweeping judgment?

 

Can't say I like any of Desperate Dan's nonsense and fully support Andy, in his decision to leave, but please stick to the subject.

 

Yes, thank you, good point. Some qualification. Of course I am generalising, but to be more clear a reasonable expat package or international position, for example(s), would be better described as working whilst situated in Thailand. It's not just the lifestyle money can buy, it's also such tidbits as paperwork taken care of without lifting a finger. Speaking English exclusively might be par for the course as well, as the golfers amongst them might say.

It doesn't have to be about living a particularly 'high life' either, just any work-life that can avoid dealing face to face with officialdom or Thai employees, etc.

 

Are we talking about living in a bubble, then, or actually dealing with the Thai system in all its amazingness, its people, bureaucracy, laws, culture, corruption...?

 

Whether it's an English teacher, a bar owner or businessman, there is plenty of evidence on the forum that the general consensus was 'Holiday or retirement, yes.... working, not so much.' (Past tense since, these days, even retirement or holiday may arguably be a 'Not so much' as well, as far as Thailand is concerned.)

 

Sure, Thailand was a place where a lot of people wanted to work but it had little to do with it being a great place to work.

 

 

I hope that makes some kind of sense.  I worked in Thailand for nearly 5 years in the countryside, suburbs and city. Those experiences confirmed what I saw posted by my fellow expats working in other fields.

 

A troll post and reply have been removed from this thread.

5 hours ago, Deepinthailand said:

Because i was asked a question and i answered it that's why. A activist, tree hugger,, green peace nosy sods, there all the same to me all trying to force people to see the world through there eyes and thoughts only.

well a damm sight better than thru' your eye's seeing as how you are trying to force your idea's on everyone else's thinking. 

38 minutes ago, Artisi said:

well a damm sight better than thru' your eye's seeing as how you are trying to force your idea's on everyone else's thinking. 

Lame very lame.

5 hours ago, bamukloy said:

Back in my day it was very common at home to work 14+ hour day.

Supposed to get paid for 12hrs per day, but they would adjust it down to 11hours to account for your 1hr luchtime..which you got 30 mins.

 

And this physical working fast as you can all day with superviser watching..not sleeping and play on phones.

 

 This was expected of you and if complained you will get a smack on your head saying "you lucky to have a job" 

 

We didnt cry for injustice and certainly no-one came to fight for us.

 

Our human history is shocking. labour working till they drop in sweatshops, children work sewing machines all through Europe, UK etc

probably paid enough to buy 1 loaf of bread a day.

 

If you have no money and try steal the bread in desperation..they would send you to Australia.lol

 

America..slavery..say no more.

 

Even modern times they flee from Europe to Australia for a better life, but to find yourself working 14h day under a blazing sun for pennies.

 

Life is a bitch..(or it was) thats when your not sent to war to kill people and get killed yourself.

 

Considering the Asian standard, i dont think these workers had it so tough.

 

Plenty of exploitation happening in your own country i would think.

 

Go fix that up and let the Asians decide themselves what they will tolerate..

up to them, not up to farang as your gf will tell you

 

Where did you work 14 hours a day with so much injustice, Siberia?

 

Its all a bit of so what. I often work 18 hours a day and I don't get on TV and winge about it, but I chose and get paid to do that. I don't think that everybody else should be forced to work long hours for a pittance.

 

It is utterly small minded and preposterous to say "let the Asians decide for themselves what they will tolerate". Do you even have any idea what countries constitutes Asia? Do you know for instance that Asia includes North Korea? Do you think they have choices?

 

Everybody in every country should be striving to improve the working lot of all people and not trying to drive wedges between different nationalities.

 

 

 

On 11/7/2016 at 7:48 AM, simon43 said:

It is perhaps worth explaining how 'easy' it is to cause a foreigner to be barred from leaving Thailand.  It doesn't require a Court of Law to seize their passport, nor does it require any presentation of accusation or evidence to that Court or the poilce.

 

All it requires is filing of a charge with the police of a criminal act committed by that foreigner, such as stealing 50 baht.  Stealing is a criminal offence, not a civil offence.

 

After registering the charge with the local police (costs 30 baht I seem to recall to file a charge), it is a very simple process to then visit your local immigration office and ask that a bar be placed on the foreigner leaving the country. The immigration computers at all airports and border crossings are linked together and check for those trying to enter Thailand who are barred from doing so, and for those trying to exit Thailand who are barred from doing so.

 

Voila!  Once you name is on that list of foreigners barred from leaving Thailand, you cannot leave the country (by legal means), without going to a Court of Law to try to get the charges dropped or resolved.

 

It is the ease by which anyone (Thai or foreigner) who has a grudge against another person can get that person's name added to the immigration computer blacklist that makes a complete mockery of the due process of law.

 

 

It requires a formal request from the police or a court to place a watchlist, blacklist or travel ban. If this formal request cannot be evidenced then section 157 applies.

I respect and admire Andy Hall for his work to improve the conditions for migrant workers in Thailand but for the life of me I can't understand why he announced after winning the case last week that he was going to sue the Attorney General, prosecutor and police.

He's lived in Thailand for several years, did he not think how much this public challenge would rile the authorities? It seemed  a naive move at best. And then he flees 2 days later! Oh dear!

1 hour ago, Deepinthailand said:

Lame very lame.

Lame, what is lame ? Unfortunately you cannot change the truth no matter how much you wish to. 

Chicken farmer Chanchai Pheamphon, owner of Thammakaset farms, countered with defamation lawsuits filed in October against the 14 migrant workers, and another one against Hall, filed last week at the Bangkok South Criminal Court, which handed down the guilty verdict in September.

 

"I didn't know he was going to flee. I already filed the lawsuit last week," Chanchai said by telephone. "Everyone who has made me lose my business - I have sued them all."

 

Asked how many lawsuits he had filed, he said: "Many - a lot."

 

Chanchai "Trump" Pheamphon, ... 

 

26 minutes ago, Artisi said:

Lame, what is lame ? Unfortunately you cannot change the truth no matter how much you wish to. 

Lame was your response, change what truth your truth according to Mr Hall!!!!!!!