UK: Labour MP Jo Cox 'murdered for political cause'

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that Farage ever intended that someone be killed for their affiliations. In fact, the look on his face when I saw him interviewed in the aftermath made it clear to me that he was as shocked as anyone else.

However that does not negate the fact that the narrative of lies that he propagated preyed directly on the fears of many, and deliberately cultivated a sense of Britain being under attack. While it might never be established as to what exactly triggered the murder, it is increasingly clear that a notion of Britain under attack was a factor.

 

 

It's perfectly clear what triggered the murder: Mair had a long history of mental illness; he was a 'ticking time bomb' who became obsessed with far right political violence-endorsing American websites. We could just as easily be reading about how he'd tried to get actively involved with a British far right group (or even a local brexit leave campaign group), been quickly shunned by said group, and ended up murdering one of them (a not-uncommon occurrence with such mentally unstable people).

 

The attempt by remain to claim Jo Cox as a martyr to their cause is utterly cynical and truly despicable.

[RuamRudy]

 
 
The attempt by remain to claim Jo Cox as a martyr to their cause is utterly cynical and truly despicable.

Which attempt would that be? I don't see anyone trying to elevate her to martyr status on this thread. All I see are Farage fanboys desperately trying to deflect attention away from the fact that the killer appears to have been motivated by the fears that UKIP deliberately stoked.

[crackhouseparty]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

 

 

Which attempt would that be? I don't see anyone trying to elevate her to martyr status on this thread. All I see are Farage fanboys desperately trying to deflect attention away from the fact that the killer appears to have been motivated by the fears that UKIP deliberately stoked.

 

 

Oh, the irony.

[Orac]

 
It's perfectly clear what triggered the murder: Mair had a long history of mental illness; he was a 'ticking time bomb' who became obsessed with far right political violence-endorsing American websites. We could just as easily be reading about how he'd tried to get actively involved with a British far right group (or even a local brexit leave campaign group), been quickly shunned by said group, and ended up murdering one of them (a not-uncommon occurrence with such mentally unstable people).
 
The attempt by remain to claim Jo Cox as a martyr to their cause is utterly cynical and truly despicable.

I wouldn't normally go to the Daily Wail for information but they seem to have covered some of what you appear to have missed. The link to the Swinton Circle brings it uncomfortably close to some key UKIP players.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648480/Brexit-link-Mair-racists-Loner-joined-South-African-far-Right-group-backs-campaign-says-UK-invaded-migrants.html

[Khun Han]

15 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

I wouldn't normally go to the Daily Wail for information but they seem to have covered some of what you appear to have missed. The link to the Swinton Circle brings it uncomfortably close to some key UKIP players.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3648480/Brexit-link-Mair-racists-Loner-joined-South-African-far-Right-group-backs-campaign-says-UK-invaded-migrants.html

 

 

Oh dear. Here we go again. A South African far right group. And it's 'link' to the Swinton Circle (with which Mair had no connection) was an online congratulation for a political behaviour.

 

Of course, the elephant in the room, which has to be pushed into the background for the sake of remain propaganda, is Mair's long-term mental illness and the failure of social services to deal with it correctly.

[Orac]

 
Oh dear. Here we go again. A South African far right group. And it's 'link' to the Swinton Circle (with which Mair had no connection) was an online congratulation for a political behaviour.
 
Of course, the elephant in the room, which has to be pushed into the background for the sake of remain propaganda, is Mair's long-term mental illness and the failure of social services to deal with it correctly.

It is a UK based group with very strong links to Swinton Circle including a shared chat forum - Patriotic Forum.

Their January 2006 newsletter makes interesting reading as it references both Thomas Mair where they are trying to locate him as correspondence they had sent him had been returned as well as a article in their London Swinton Circle section about a talk from Nigel Farage.

[Top man]

3 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I think that you are missing the point - Nigel Farage spun and disseminated multiple lies about immigration in order to create unnecessary paranoia about a threat to Britishness that did not exist, with the express intent of provoking Brexit.

 

Nobody is suggesting that he caused her death directly, but his lies and rhetoric seems to be very much a key factor in driving this already unhinged person to commit a terrible act in an attempt to protect Britain from the threat that the Brexiters told us was all around. 

Just goes to show , the liberal left really don't understand the feelings in the UK . I actually blame the left for this problems. what we don't want is really far right but common sense . but I have to say the backlash has started . and the left have only thereselfs to blame . 

[Khun Han]

18 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

It is a UK based group with very strong links to Swinton Circle including a shared chat forum - Patriotic Forum.

Their January 2006 newsletter makes interesting reading as it references both Thomas Mair where they are trying to locate him as correspondence they had sent him had been returned as well as a article in their London Swinton Circle section about a talk from Nigel Farage.

 

 

It's a group of expat South Africans.They'd lost contact with Mair in 2006 due to their mail being returned, and put it in their newsletter. Sound like a pretty sad bunch to me. D'you reckon they were being monitored by secret service?

[RuamRudy]

Just goes to show , the liberal left really don't understand the feelings in the UK . I actually blame the left for this problems. what we don't want is really far right but common sense . but I have to say the backlash has started . and the left have only thereselfs to blame . 

That is one step away from blaming the victim herself, but only a short step.

[Orac]

 
It's a group of expat South Africans.They'd lost contact with Mair in 2006 due to their mail being returned, and put it in their newsletter. Sound like a pretty sad bunch to me. D'you reckon they were being monitored by secret service?

No idea if they were being monitored or not, I would assume that some if these nutters are being watched though not sure if it would be the case for this sad bunch.

What it does show is that Thomas Mair was involved with UK based far right groups 10 years ago and, couple with his long term mental problems which you claim he has, begs the question why he suddenly decided to brutally slay Jo Cox when he did if it had nothing to do with Brexit.

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

 

No idea if they were being monitored or not, I would assume that some if these nutters are being watched though not sure if it would be the case for this sad bunch.

What it does show is that Thomas Mair was involved with UK based far right groups 10 years ago and, couple with his long term mental problems which you claim he has, begs the question why he suddenly decided to brutally slay Jo Cox when he did if it had nothing to do with Brexit.

 

 

Actually, what it does show is that Mair had subscriptions to American far right groups and a british-based group of South African expats whose main aim is "the re-establishment of civilised rule in Southern Africa". And long before brexit gained any traction.

 

What is interesting is the apparent lack of connection between Mair and any British right wing groups. It seems that he was avoiding them, or, more likely, they were avoiding him. I wonder why? 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

5 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

I don't think that anyone is suggesting that Farage ever intended that someone be killed for their affiliations. In fact, the look on his face when I saw him interviewed in the aftermath made it clear to me that he was as shocked as anyone else.

However that does not negate the fact that the narrative of lies that he propagated preyed directly on the fears of many, and deliberately cultivated a sense of Britain being under attack. While it might never be established as to what exactly triggered the murder, it is increasingly clear that a notion of Britain under attack was a factor.

 

1/ There were lies on both sides of the debate, how do you think the Remain campaign got the nickname "project fear"?

2/ The defendant Mair denies saying anything of the sort.

3/ The case is still underway, Let's not jump to conclusions. To anyone it looks like Mair has to be crazy, but it is for the jury to decide not people on TV (or TV).

 

 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

4 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Which attempt would that be? I don't see anyone trying to elevate her to martyr status on this thread. All I see are Farage fanboys desperately trying to deflect attention away from the fact that the killer appears to have been motivated by the fears that UKIP deliberately stoked.

What you say is not consistent with any of the leave side groups aims or claims.

The UK-EU referendum only concerned migrants from the EU by way of the "open door" movement of EU citizens, and the fact it allows newly arrived refugees and economic migrants to roam freely after a few years.

All of the Leave campaigns said that immigration will continue, the difference being that it would be for all citizens from anywhere in the world and would be controlled by a system allowing in those the UK needs and wants, not everyone who has an EU passport without any checks.

The English (well not most of London of course) and the Welsh voted for that as part of the whole package.

Edited November 15, 2016 by George FmplesdaCosteedback
typo

[nontabury]

13 hours ago, Top man said:

Just goes to show , the liberal left really don't understand the feelings in the UK . I actually blame the left for this problems. what we don't want is really far right but common sense . but I have to say the backlash has started . and the left have only thereselfs to blame . 

 

  Maybe due to the PC indoctrination of the U.K. By the soft centered Westminster crowd.

[nontabury]

17 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

High profile people have a duty to speak with responsibility and consideration, especially when discussing such emotive subjects. You can stick your fingers in your ears and reduce everything to black and white if you wish, but all you are demonstrating is that you are either incredibly naive or pigheaded.  

 

   In a perfect world politicians would also be truthful and not try to deceive people.

As an example when Nicola Sturgeon stated that all S.N.P's would vote for remain. Yet now we find out that a number SNP's did In fact vote for Brexit. Others such as  Marairi Black while not sticking her fingers in her ears, now informs us that she did hold her nose while following the party line.

[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, nontabury said:

 

   In a perfect world politicians would also be truthful and not try to deceive people.

As an example when Nicola Sturgeon stated that all S.N.P's would vote for remain. Yet now we find out that a number SNP's did In fact vote for Brexit. Others such as  Marairi Black while not sticking her fingers in her ears, now informs us that she did hold her nose while following the party line.

 

As I said, you can reduce everything to black and white if you wish (or, if you prefer, Daily Mail 'journalism') but the SNP is a broad church with many different political views contained within a unifying desire for independence. They are often called the Tartan Tories because of their centre politics, however the left are in ascendancy at the moment, but once we achieve independence, I am confident that the party will split into clear left and right parties. 

 

As for Mhairi Black, you (deliberately?) missed out the part where she explained that her holding her nose during voting was because she felt dirty voting along the same lines as David Cameron. 

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

11 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

once we achieve independence

So now we know.

Good luck with the Indyref-2, and if you win, before you go don't forget to  pay your bill like a good Scotsman....

[RuamRudy]

10 hours ago, George FmplesdaCosteedback said:

So now we know.

Good luck with the Indyref-2, and if you win, before you go don't forget to  pay your bill like a good Scotsman....

 

Now you know what? I have never been reluctant to point out that Scotland is not best served by Westminster, and that independence will be better for all parts of Great Britain.

[George FmplesdaCosteedback]

13 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

 

Now you know what? I have never been reluctant to point out that Scotland is not best served by Westminster, and that independence will be better for all parts of Great Britain.

I have not read every single post you have ever made, still:

Hear hear! I agree. Sooner the better. Hadrian was right!

Good luck.

Just remember to pay the bill before you go.

[Basil B]

 

Quote

 

Thomas Mair has been given a whole life sentence after he was found guilty of the murder of Labour MP Jo Cox.

The 53-year-old shot and stabbed to death the mother-of-two in Birstall, West Yorkshire, on 16 June, a week before the EU referendum vote.

Mair did not enter a plea and chose not to give any evidence in his defence.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38079594

Will not have to worry about paying his bills or where the next meal is coming from for the rest of his life.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Basil B

[Grouse]

On 15/11/2016 at 7:42 AM, Laughing Gravy said:

Yes the man is crazy and has his own agenda. It was a tragedy. The remain campaign media supporters such as the BBC, didn't half 'milk it' and played on the sympathy of this tragic event. The BBC and the other media newspapers should be ashamed of themselves.

 

For gods sake give it a break man!

 

A fine woman has been murdered

 

I've just been listening to it all on BBC World at One.

 

The judge said the man was NOT insane. It WAS a POLITICAL ACT. It was an act of TERRORISM.

 

What the hell is the matter with you people?

 

When there is a murder by a Muslim and it is concluded the culprit is insane many of you claim it is jihadist extremism.

 

We heard exactly what the man said at the time and at his first hearing.

 

He is an extreme example of the nastiness that has arisen in this country in recent years. We don't want it.

 

Your continual whining about the BBC is frankly pathetic.

 

You think this man was in no way influenced by the Jingoism whipped up by Farage and his UKIP nasties? Then you are deaf and blind.

 

So stop it now before I get a suspension ?

[Laughing Gravy]

12 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

For gods sake give it a break man!

 

A fine woman has been murdered

 

I've just been listening to it all on BBC World at One.

 

The judge said the man was NOT insane. It WAS a POLITICAL ACT. It was an act of TERRORISM.

 

What the hell is the matter with you people?

 

When there is a murder by a Muslim and it is concluded the culprit is insane many of you claim it is jihadist extremism.

 

We heard exactly what the man said at the time and at his first hearing.

 

He is an extreme example of the nastiness that has arisen in this country in recent years. We don't want it.

 

Your continual whining about the BBC is frankly pathetic.

 

You think this man was in no way influenced by the Jingoism whipped up by Farage and his UKIP nasties? Then you are deaf and blind.

 

So stop it now before I get a suspension ?

You really like to shout down at people don't you! I suppose you will be using the excuse that you are not a bully but I am Yorkshire. I won't follow your line of shouting down as someone's opinions. I have more class than that.

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[Grouse]

10 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

You really like to shout down at people don't you! I suppose you will be using the excuse that you are not a bully but I am Yorkshire. I won't follow your line of shouting down as someone's opinions. I have more class than that.

 

"I have more class than that" sums you up perfectly

 

You were out of line; a gentleman would apologise

 

So I don't expect to receive one from you in the near future ?

[Laughing Gravy]

9 hours ago, Grouse said:

"I have more class than that" sums you up perfectly

 

You were out of line; a gentleman would apologise

 

So I don't expect to receive one from you in the near future ?

Apologise for having a different opinion. Why? It is you that shouts people down, bullies them and makes derogatory remarks. I suggest you go and read all the posts you have written to me. You ridicule me as well as others for making spelling mistakes and you consistently do that. Against forum rules by the way. You consistently call people numpties for voting brexit which is a belittling term. You then call people bigots and racists. So I suggest you take a good look at oneself. Being 'Yorkshire' is not an excuse and you can tell that to Michael Parkinson too.

I am a gentleman and if we met, it would pistols at dawn like traditional gentlemen do.

Edited November 24, 2016 by Laughing Gravy

[billd766]

9 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Apologise for having a different opinion. Why? It is you that shouts people down, bullies them and makes derogatory remarks. I suggest you go and read all the posts you have written to me. You ridicule me as well as others for making spelling mistakes and you consistently do that. Against forum rules by the way. You consistently call people numpties for voting brexit which is a belittling term. You then call people bigots and racists. So I suggest you take a good look at oneself. Being 'Yorkshire' is not an excuse and you can tell that to Michael Parkinson too.

I am a gentleman and if we met, it would pistols at dawn like traditional gentlemen do.

 

You should not need to apologise to him but pity him. He is locked into himself and only believes in his own reality and small world. If he did not insult people he would have nothing to say.

 

I put him on my ignore list a while ago.

[Orac]

Seems there are quite a few people out there that supported what Thomas Mair did.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/26/jo-coxs-was-followed-by-50000-tweets-celebrating-her-death

[Khun Han]

1 hour ago, Orac said:

Seems there are quite a few people out there that supported what Thomas Mair did.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/nov/26/jo-coxs-was-followed-by-50000-tweets-celebrating-her-death

 

Yes, even serial killers have fans.

 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fans+of+serial+killers&biw=360&bih=615&prmd=ivsn&ei=Vms6WK3qM4GTgAaAuofACQ&start=0&sa=N

 

Weird, isn't it?

[Orac]

 
Yes, even serial killers have fans.
 
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=fans+of+serial+killers&biw=360&bih=615&prmd=ivsn&ei=Vms6WK3qM4GTgAaAuofACQ&start=0&sa=N
 
Weird, isn't it?

And that Mair has 25,000 out there on twitter alone doesn't bother you?

[Khun Han]

6 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

And that Mair has 25,000 out there on twitter alone doesn't bother you?

 

 

It bothers me as much as any other weirdos who are fans of murderers bother me.

 

But I see where you're going with this: you're using Jo Cox's death to further your political agenda. Just another political ambulance chaser. Ugh!!!

[Orac]

 
It bothers me as much as any other weirdos who are fans of murderers bother me.
 
But I see where you're going with this: you're using Jo Cox's death to further your political agenda. Just another political ambulance chaser. Ugh!!!

Personal abuse about my apparent political agenda for pointing out that someone who murdered for a political cause has 25,000 individual 'supporters' is a bit ironic isn't it.

I am sure that before Thomas Mair brutally murdered Jo Cox he would have been seen as just another weirdo as well.