The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, Rob13 said:

 

It's serious. Obama has admitted they dropped the ball on this. The Russians were interfering and he did nothing. Not a small matter. 

Well he imposed additional sanctions, closed two Russian compounds in the US and expelled 35 Russians suspected of involvement in intelligence activities.  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/politics/russia-election-hacking-sanctions.html?mcubz=0  But why let facts get in the way of a post?

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Well he imposed additional sanctions, closed two Russian compounds in the US and expelled 35 Russians suspected of involvement in intelligence activities.  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/politics/russia-election-hacking-sanctions.html?mcubz=0  But why let facts get in the way of a post?

 

I think the point is that if this was deemed a credible threat to national security, than the response was rather subdued. Granted (and I've posted along the same lines months back), outing it in the middle/end/after elections would have been politically problematic. Other than that, I think Obama & Co. expected HRC to win, which would have made dealing with the Russian intervention easier.

[heybruce]

Remember when Trump thought the election process was sacred?   https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/837996746236182529?lang=en

 

Of course that was when he mistakenly thought that the election interference was by a Democrat and was against him.  Now that he knows the interference was from Russia and they were working to get him elected, it's not a big deal.

 

He should reconsider, so far his presidency has been a disappointment for Russia (not by Trump's intent, but due to his incompetence). Russian hacking to sway the next election might be against Trump. I suspect if hackers reveal Trump's tax returns he'll think differently about the threat.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think the point is that if this was deemed a credible threat to national security, than the response was rather subdued. Granted (and I've posted along the same lines months back), outing it in the middle/end/after elections would have been politically problematic. Other than that, I think Obama & Co. expected HRC to win, which would have made dealing with the Russian intervention easier.

With the benefit of hindsight it's easy to say he should have done more.  However more dramatic actions would have needed to have been justified with details that would have revealed what the intelligence services knew and how they learned it.  So he took limited sanctions and approved covert cyber operations against Russia, but operations that needed more time than his administration had to implement. https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?utm_term=.8829a6b90ede

 

Had Clinton been elected these cyber operations would have been pursued.  With Trump in charge, probably not.  Once again, with the benefit of hindsight I'm sure he would have acted differently.  

[Morch]

2 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Remember when Trump thought the election process was sacred?   https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/837996746236182529?lang=en

 

Of course that was when he mistakenly thought that the election interference was by a Democrat and was against him.  Now that he knows the interference was from Russia and they were working to get him elected, it's not a big deal.

 

He should reconsider, so far his presidency has been a disappointment for Russia (not by Trump's intent, but due to his incompetence). Russian hacking to sway the next election might be against Trump. I suspect if hackers reveal Trump's tax returns he'll think differently about the threat.

 

I think that the Russian intervention was less about Trump per se, more about destabilizing the US. And on that front, he is doing a stellar job. Whether or not the Russians will meddle again to the same extent is an open question. Perhaps less needed now that the seeds of suspicion and doubt have been sowed. Guessing their "support" of one candidate or another is more to do with the potential level of damage generated.

[heybruce]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I think that the Russian intervention was less about Trump per se, more about destabilizing the US. And on that front, he is doing a stellar job. Whether or not the Russians will meddle again to the same extent is an open question. Perhaps less needed now that the seeds of suspicion and doubt have been sowed. Guessing their "support" of one candidate or another is more to do with the potential level of damage generated.

The Russian intervention was more about keeping Hillary Clinton out of office, Putin considered her the boogie man.  However if they get away with it this time we may be assured they will continue.  Countries with (moderately) fair elections and free press make Russia look bad, so Putin will do his best to make these countries look bad.

[iReason]

6 minutes ago, Morch said:

I think that the Russian intervention was less about Trump per se, more about destabilizing the US.

Well, you would think wrong.

 

Legislative measures were put into place by the Obama administration directly related to the Russian meddling in the election.

Here are two of them.

The first is currently being ignored by the Secretary of State:

 

SEC. 502. STRICT ENFORCEMENT OF TRAVEL PROTOCOLS AND PROCEDURES OF ACCREDITED DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR PERSONNEL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION IN THE UNITED STATES.

"The Secretary of State shall, in coordination with the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Director of National Intelligence, establish a mandatory advance notification regime governing all travel by accredited diplomatic and consular personnel of the Russian Federation in the United States and take necessary action to secure full compliance by Russian personnel and address any noncompliance."

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/legislation/intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017

 

SEC. 501. COMMITTEE TO COUNTER ACTIVE MEASURES BY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION TO EXERT COVERT INFLUENCE OVER PEOPLES AND GOVERNMENTS.

 

(1) Active measures by russia to exert covert influence.--The term ``active measures by Russia to exert covert influence'' means activities intended to influence a person or government that are carried out in coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly, including the following:

            (A) Establishment or funding of a front group.

            (B) Covert broadcasting.

            (C) Media manipulation.

            (D) Disinformation and forgeries.

            (E) Funding agents of influence.

            (F) Incitement and offensive counterintelligence.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/legislation/intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The Russian intervention was more about keeping Hillary Clinton out of office, Putin considered her the boogie man.  However if they get away with it this time we may be assured they will continue.  Countries with (moderately) fair elections and free press make Russia look bad, so Putin will do his best to make these countries look bad.

 

That your opinion, I doubt that there's a public record stating what the Russian goals were. IMO, even had she won, the Russian effort would have been a success (from their point of view), just in a different way. As for the "looking bad" argument, doubt that's anything germane. Such risks would be taken for a mere PR campaign. Weakening Western democracies by playing on existing divisions may benefit Russia in many ways. Also, may want to read up on one Aleksandr Dugin. Bannon is a Dugin wannabee.

 

[Morch]

11 minutes ago, iReason said:

Well, you would think wrong.

 

Legislative measures were put into place by the Obama administration directly related to the Russian meddling in the election.

Here are two of them.

The first is currently being ignored by the Secretary of State:

 

SEC. 502. STRICT ENFORCEMENT OF TRAVEL PROTOCOLS AND PROCEDURES OF ACCREDITED DIPLOMATIC AND CONSULAR PERSONNEL OF THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION IN THE UNITED STATES.

"The Secretary of State shall, in coordination with the Director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Director of National Intelligence, establish a mandatory advance notification regime governing all travel by accredited diplomatic and consular personnel of the Russian Federation in the United States and take necessary action to secure full compliance by Russian personnel and address any noncompliance."

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/legislation/intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017

 

SEC. 501. COMMITTEE TO COUNTER ACTIVE MEASURES BY THE RUSSIAN FEDERATION TO EXERT COVERT INFLUENCE OVER PEOPLES AND GOVERNMENTS.

 

(1) Active measures by russia to exert covert influence.--The term ``active measures by Russia to exert covert influence'' means activities intended to influence a person or government that are carried out in coordination with, or at the behest of, political leaders or the security services of the Russian Federation and the role of the Russian Federation has been hidden or not acknowledged publicly, including the following:

            (A) Establishment or funding of a front group.

            (B) Covert broadcasting.

            (C) Media manipulation.

            (D) Disinformation and forgeries.

            (E) Funding agents of influence.

            (F) Incitement and offensive counterintelligence.

https://www.intelligence.senate.gov/legislation/intelligence-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2017

 

In your haste to object, you seem to have quoted (and partially, at that) the wrong bit of the wrong post. What you quoted relates to another matter. One post was to do with the Obama's administration response, the other with aims of the Russian intervention. There was no claim that nothing was done, but that for several consideration and reasons, the actual US response did not match the magnitude later associated with the threat.

 

That Trump and his administration not only did nothing about it, but worse, tried and try to obstruct investigations (never mind acting on available information) is true.

 

 

[simple1]

11 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Also, may want to read up on one Aleksandr Dugin. Bannon is a Dugin wannabee.

 

Thanks for the tip...

 

Dugin, a truly dangerous individual referenced by Bannon. Wonder why the ideological connection hasn't been highlighted before on this forum.

 

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-dangerous-philosopher-behind-putins-strategy-to-grow-russian-power-at-americas-expense

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Thanks for the tip...

 

Dugin, a truly dangerous individual referenced by Bannon. Wonder why the ideological connection hasn't been highlighted before on this forum.

 

http://bigthink.com/paul-ratner/the-dangerous-philosopher-behind-putins-strategy-to-grow-russian-power-at-americas-expense

 

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/974529-fbi head-confirms-russia-election-probe-says-moscow-backed-trump/?page=7#comment-11747511

[iReason]

21 minutes ago, Morch said:

That your opinion, I doubt that there's a public record stating what the Russian goals were.

 

Read much?

 

Secret CIA report from sources ‘deep’ in Kremlin detailed Putin’s direct order to elect Trump: report

 

"A report compiled by the CIA and sent directly to former President Barack Obama detailed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s direct instructions to interfere in the 2016 election and help elect Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, the Washington Post reports."

 

"Intelligence officials have been unanimous on Putin’s direct involvement in Russia’s election hacking since last year, but have been previously reluctant to ascribe a goal to Kremlin’s influence campaign for fear of exposing sources and methods."

 

"As the Post notes, the CIA’s report on Putin’s directive to elect Trump over Clinton came “from sourcing deep inside the Russian government” and was considered too sensitive to be shared in the President’s Daily Briefing."

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/secret-cia-report-from-sources-deep-in-kremlin-detailed-putins-direct-order-to-elect-trump-report/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-high_russiaobama-banner-7a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.061ffc556b8c

 

[iReason]

22 minutes ago, Morch said:

There was no claim that nothing was done,

 

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

Read much?

 

Secret CIA report from sources ‘deep’ in Kremlin detailed Putin’s direct order to elect Trump: report

 

"A report compiled by the CIA and sent directly to former President Barack Obama detailed Russian President Vladimir Putin’s direct instructions to interfere in the 2016 election and help elect Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton, the Washington Post reports."

 

"Intelligence officials have been unanimous on Putin’s direct involvement in Russia’s election hacking since last year, but have been previously reluctant to ascribe a goal to Kremlin’s influence campaign for fear of exposing sources and methods."

 

"As the Post notes, the CIA’s report on Putin’s directive to elect Trump over Clinton came “from sourcing deep inside the Russian government” and was considered too sensitive to be shared in the President’s Daily Briefing."

https://www.rawstory.com/2017/06/secret-cia-report-from-sources-deep-in-kremlin-detailed-putins-direct-order-to-elect-trump-report/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/world/national-security/obama-putin-election-hacking/?hpid=hp_hp-banner-high_russiaobama-banner-7a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.061ffc556b8c

 

 

I suggest trying to read my post again, with the auto-response mode turned off.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, iReason said:

 

 

There was no such claim made in my posts. Rather obvious to anyone not focused on trolling.

[Rob13]

1 hour ago, heybruce said:

Well he imposed additional sanctions, closed two Russian compounds in the US and expelled 35 Russians suspected of involvement in intelligence activities.  https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/29/us/politics/russia-election-hacking-sanctions.html?mcubz=0  But why let facts get in the way of a post?

And the problem continued. And now his inaction is front page news.

If a super bowl was carried out as poorly as this election there'd be riots for a week.

HRC was crying about russian interference,trump was talking aout it being rigged. Both sides calling foul and no one did anything. That's vrry poor leadership from somewhere.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Rob13

[F4UCorsair]

6 hours ago, iReason said:

As I thought, hopeless.

And an expected pathetic deflection of your completely erroneous assertion.

 

"...think that I could make the US politics different at a keyboard."

 The Russians do.

 

When presented with facts, rice555:

 

 

 

Selfie?

[Ron19]

Flame post removed

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

And the problem continued. And now his inaction is front page news.

If a super bowl was carried out as poorly as this election there'd be riots for a week.

HRC was crying about russian interference,trump was talking aout it being rigged. Both sides calling foul and no one did anything. That's vrry poor leadership from somewhere.

A situation such as this does not lend itself to quick fixes, but clearly there was action taken, some overt and some covert.  But, again, why let facts get in the way of a post?

 

Now the pertinent question is:  What action will Trump take?  Apparently he is no longer denying that Russia interfered in the election, but of course he may well reverse himself on this as he has on so many other things.  The only apparent action he's taken seems designed to make the investigation go away.

[F4UCorsair]

33 minutes ago, Rob13 said:

And the problem continued. And now his inaction is front page news.

If a super bowl was carried out as poorly as this election there'd be riots for a week.

HRC was crying about russian interference,trump was talking aout it being rigged. Both sides calling foul and no one did anything. That's vrry poor leadership from somewhere.

Agreed....very poor leadership and perhaps the reason neither acted is that they both hoped to benefit from such 'interference' or 'rigging' by it having a negative effect on the other?

Edited June 25, 2017 by F4UCorsair

[iReason]

2 hours ago, heybruce said:

Of course that was when he mistakenly thought that the election interference was by a Democrat and was against him. 

Now that he knows the interference was from Russia and they were working to get him elected, it's not a big deal.

 

 I suspect if hackers reveal Trump's tax returns he'll think differently about the threat.

Yes. Interesting the inept one isn't concerned at all about a cyber attack on the United States.

Why is that?

 

 "I suspect if hackers reveal Trump's tax returns he'll think differently about the threat."

Won't need the Russians.

 

I suspect those returns will/are being looked into during the money laundering/fraud phase of Special Councel Mueller's investigation.

https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/15/15783384/trump-mueller-team-russia-investigation-dreeben-weissman-quarles-rhee-zebley

[iReason]

14 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

...the reason neither acted is that they both hoped to benefit from such 'interference' 

 

A patently false assertion.

 

Do try to keep up...

[Morch]

17 minutes ago, F4UCorsair said:

Agreed....very poor leadership and perhaps the reason neither acted is that they both hoped to benefit from such 'interference' or 'rigging' by it having a negative effect on the other?

 

The only way in which this could be seen as benefiting the Dems would be to assume they'd use it to attack Trump post-elections, had they won. Not exactly seeing it as a realistic proposition - probable negatives outweighing gains, and that's one long game for a rather poor reward. If they would have tried that, they'd be crucified (and rightly so) for not addressing the issue because of partisan politics.

[Rob13]

41 minutes ago, heybruce said:

  But, again, why let facts get in the way of a post?

 

You keep saying that. Right now the facts are surfacing  that Obama knew of the problem and chose to minimize it. Another fact is the US democracy is built on free elections and that was under attack during his administration and he thought it was just too big a problem for a lame-duck POTUS to deal with. Before the problem can be solved it first needs to be identified and looked at thoroughly. Giving Obama a pass doesn't benefit anybody. He screwed up and it's a much bigger mess because of his oversight.

 

45 minutes ago, heybruce said:

  Now the pertinent question is: What action will Trump take?

 

Nothing helpful.  probably blame  everybody else and stir up  chaos and try to keep himself out of trouble. 

[iReason]

Meet Russian hacker and spammer, "Peter" Pyotr Levashov/Severa:

 

"Peter" was on the top ten wanted list for being one of the longest operating criminal spam-lords on the internet.

And worked with many other Eastern Euro and US based botnet spammers.

 

"Peter" Severa was recruited by the F.S.B., the successor to the K.G.B. to introduce malware used in 2012 to influence a domestic election in Russia.

 

The World's Worst Spammers
"This TOP 10 chart of ROKSO-listed spammers is based on Spamhaus views of the highest threat, least repentant, most persistent,

and generally the worst of the career spammers causing the most damage on the internet currently."

https://www.spamhaus.org/statistics/spammers/

https://www.spamhaus.org/rokso/spammer/SPM893/peter-severa-peter-levashov

 

 

Spain Arrests Russian Thought to Be Kingpin of Computer Spam

"Peter Severa’s spam operation ran a sophisticated, evolving family of computer viruses called Waledac and later Kelihos, developed in part by a former military engineer also living in St. Petersburg named Andrei N. Sabelnikov, according to a 2012 American court filing by Microsoft."

 

"The Kelihos virus, which had been devised to spread spam, was used during the Russian election in 2012 to send political messages to email accounts on computers with Russian I.P. addresses."

 

"The emails linked to fake news stories saying that Mikhail D. Prokhorov, the businessman running for president

against Vladimir V. Putin, had come out as gay."

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/04/09/world/europe/peter-severa-levahsov-russia-arrest.html?mcubz=0

 

2012 in Russia?

Warming up for 2016 in America?  

 

Wife of Russian programmer 'suspected of cyber attacks on US' shares details about his arrest

"The wife of detained Russian programmer Pyotr Levashov has spoken to RT of her anguish of never seeing her husband again

"if he is extradited to the US" from Spain "on suspicion of cyber attacks on US governmental sources."

 

"When she managed to later speak to her husband over the phone, Pyotr told her he had been shown "some papers in Spanish without a stamp, with a bad quality picture of him," and heard the law enforcement mentioning "something about a virus" he had allegedly created, "linked to Trump winning the elections."

 

"A Spanish police representative told RIA Novosti "the FBI will be dealing with the issue."

https://www.rt.com/news/384268-russian-arrested-spain-us-hacking/

 

I can only imagine what information Special Councel Mueller has...

Edited June 25, 2017 by iReason

[bill59]

It's failing miserably. The Democratic Party is in danger of collapse. No leadership or ideas. It's been coming for a long time. Americans will never accept socialism posing as progressive liberalism. Trump's election was a loud and clear message that both parties are failing us miserably, but especially the democrats. 4 more devastating election losses for them again this week.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[Andaman Al]

15 minutes ago, bill59 said:

It's failing miserably. The Democratic Party is in danger of collapse. No leadership or ideas. It's been coming for a long time. Americans will never accept socialism posing as progressive liberalism. Trump's election was a loud and clear message that both parties are failing us miserably, but especially the democrats. 4 more devastating election losses for them again this week.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

Don't worry about the Dems, if the stuff iReason is alluding to in post 3086 is actually true and comes out, then the Dems don't need Leadership. The Republicans will be so screwed out of existence that political parties such as "The Anti Masonic Party", "The American Vegetarian Party", "The Guns and Dope Party" and "The Inanimate Objects Party" (All genuine US political parties) will rise up out of the ashes and lead the USA to a new era of freedom, political efficiency and put sanity back in politics    

[Jingthing]

Hey if we want Fox news propaganda demonizing the democratic party we can always watch Fox.

[Morch]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Hey if we want Fox news propaganda demonizing the democratic party we can always watch Fox.

 

No idea which post you were referencing, the latest one mentioning the Democratic Party wasn't even close to "demonizing".

 

About half of the article linked in the OP deals with various points of criticism regarding the Democratic Party, and the unclear future it faces. While the topic morphed (not to say, hijacked) from discussion pertaining to the nature of the so-called "resistance" into Trump Bash Fest Central ( and no, I'm not saying Trump shouldn't be bashed) - the original premise was different.

[Scott]

I VERY strongly suggest you get back on topic and stop with the petty bickering.  

 

Posts removed.