The anti-Trump resistance takes shape: 'Government's supposed to fear us'

[craigt3365]

40 minutes ago, kevkev1888 said:

Curious as to how you think you KNOW this?

As I understand it all that is known is that the subject of sanctions came up.

Perhaps.  But still illegal.  And thus, Flynn's gone and now under investigation.  What he said exactly hasn't been revealed...yet....

[iReason]

Just now, kevkev1888 said:

Curious as to how you think you KNOW this?

As I understand it all that is known is that the subject of sanctions came up.

"all that is known"?

 

Sally Yates may have been able to clear up some things for you in detail, but she was shut down.

Perhaps you can write your representative and demand an explanation as to why this occurred:

(if you are sincerely interested)

 

Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia

 

"The Trump administration sought to block former acting attorney general Sally Yates from testifying in the House investigation of possible links between Russian officials and Donald Trump’s campaign, according to letters provided to The Washington Post. The effort to keep Yates from testifying has further angered Democrats, who have accused Republicans of trying to damage the inquiry."

 

"The issue of Yates’s testimony adds to the political controversy surrounding the House Intelligence Committee’s investigation of Russian meddling in last year’s election and any possible coordination between Trump associates and Moscow."

 

"As acting attorney general, Yates played a key part in the investigation surrounding Flynn, who was ousted after revelations that he had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador to the United States."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-block-sally-yates-from-testifying-to-congress-on-russia/2017/03/28/82b73e18-13b4-11e7-9e4f-09aa75d3ec57_story.html?tid=ss&utm_term=.a3ac7af7254f

 

 

"A U.S. official confirmed a Washington Post report that Sally Yates, the then-acting U.S. attorney general, told the White House late last month that she believed Flynn had misled them about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador."

 

"She said Flynn might have put himself in a compromising position, possibly leaving himself vulnerable to blackmail, the official said."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN15S0BR

 

Operative phrase:

"she believed Flynn had misled them about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador."

 

Read much?

[Jingthing]

Trending new song.

From oldie but goodie Joan Baez --

 

 

[Silurian]

How Sean Spicer treats the WH Press Corps...

 

(jump ahead to about 1:56 for the best part)

 

 

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Silurian

[Andaman Al]

1 hour ago, Silurian said:

How Sean Spicer treats the WH Press Corps...

 

(jump ahead to about 1:56 for the best part)

 

 

 

Brilliantly done.

[Andaman Al]

Some very interesting stuff in here about Kushner and his visit to Iraq. Did you know the person sent with him to hold high level discussions with the Iraqi Kurds was Trumps ex-body guard? - Not sent as a body guard but as a member of the discussion team. It is a laugh.

 

 

 

[boomerangutang]

9 hours ago, kevkev1888 said:

OK you just made that up. Thanks for clarifying.

         I 'made up' that Flynn clandestinely spoke with Russian official(s) in December?   Not really, if you follow the news.  Flynn was instructed by Putin-lover Trump to secretly assure the Russians that Trump's team would pull back (Obama-era) sanctions on Russia.  Soon after that was revealed (by journalists, not by politicians), Pence quickly said that didn't happen, because Pence knew it was illegal for a private citizen to negotiate with a foreign country on behalf of the US government. Of course Pence was lying.  Then Flynn had to lie, saying he didn't tell Pence.  Flynn 'fell on his sword' in order to protect Pence.  

 

         The whole time, Trump knew about all that, but of course Trump had to double down on the lies - with his team.  Someone had to take the fall, so the good soldier Flynn was chosen.  Even after Flynn was booted out, Trump announced that Flynn did nothing wrong - which could mean several things:    #1. it indicates Trump thinks it's ok for a private US citizen to negotiate with a foreign country while representing himself as the US government.   #2 it indicates Trump is ok with secretly scrapping sanctions that the US has imposed on a foreign country, #3  it indicates it's ok for there to be a bunch of lying going on at the top.   Any one, two, or all 3 of those things are valid points, based on the facts.

 

4 hours ago, Andaman Al said:

Some very interesting stuff in here about Kushner and his visit to Iraq. Did you know the person sent with him to hold high level discussions with the Iraqi Kurds was Trumps ex-body guard? - Not sent as a body guard but as a member of the discussion team. It is a laugh.

                          Maddow is doing more (to find out what really went on between Trumpsters and the Russkies) than all 3 investigative committees combined.   .....and connecting the dots.   Same for Olbermann and a few other adept adept journalists.    They make Republican congresspeople look like partisan ding-dongs who couldn't figure how to zip their zippers after taking a pee. 

[boomerangutang]

Thank Bob there are sage people like Ralph Nader in the US.  Here's Nader nailing Trump. . . . . . 

 

 

[Morch]

14 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

              There are many aspects to conducting a thorough criminal investigation.  It's not just enough to have access to classified data.   Here's a partial list of what's needed:

 

>>>  asking probing questions,

>>>  looking for clues, following leads

>>>  access to useful info, and digging ever deeper

>>>  not being thwarted by higher ups, via threats or them withholding/skewing data, or whatever

>>>  knowledge of how people think, and how the world works (economics, int'l relations, biz dealings, etc)

>>>  seeing connections, and following ever-newer leads

>>>  gauging who is lying and who is telling the truth

>>>  coming to conclusions based on facts and circumstantial evidence

>>>  not being cowed by powerful people/entities - particularly when it's time to publish findings.

 

            Comey and the FBI are possibly doing some of those things.  Republicans on the Intelligence committees don't seem to be doing much of anything useful in that regard.  The public is only really aware of that re; the House Committee, but that's because the House has shown its cards (Nunes' actions stand out).

 

              At this point, it's becoming clear that Republicans are too partisan to be partaking in any of those 3 investing committees.  Dems have less partisan loyalty to Trump and his people, but an independent commission would be best.   Ryan is at the center of the partisan storm.   He thinks the American public can't see how he is thwarting the course of justice, but it's plain as day.

 

                That's why adept investigative journalists are a needed component.  The alternative is for the US to devolve to being like Saudi Arabia, Thailand, Iran, Cambodia or China, where all state matters are dictated from the top down, and their citizens know it's futile to take issue.

 

As posted earlier on the topic, presenting your opinion as fact does not make it so. There is no indication that you possess direct knowledge or superior insight into the inner working of related bodies and the specific investigations discussed.

 

Not all Republicans are as partisan as claimed (for example, neither Graham nor McCain are big fans of Trump). And if political bias is an issue, then this would apply to Democrats as well. And, of course, to your favorite journalists - which are anything but unbiased.

 

Journalists are not a necessary component of official inquiries. Their role is usually external to such proceedings. Indeed, if the US did have "house journalists" that deeply involved in official matters, then there would be reason to bring up such comparisons.

[Morch]

13 hours ago, iReason said:

"all that is known"?

 

Sally Yates may have been able to clear up some things for you in detail, but she was shut down.

Perhaps you can write your representative and demand an explanation as to why this occurred:

(if you are sincerely interested)

 

Trump administration sought to block Sally Yates from testifying to Congress on Russia

 

"The Trump administration sought to block former acting attorney general Sally Yates from testifying in the House investigation of possible links between Russian officials and Donald Trump’s campaign, according to letters provided to The Washington Post. The effort to keep Yates from testifying has further angered Democrats, who have accused Republicans of trying to damage the inquiry."

 

"The issue of Yates’s testimony adds to the political controversy surrounding the House Intelligence Committee’s investigation of Russian meddling in last year’s election and any possible coordination between Trump associates and Moscow."

 

"As acting attorney general, Yates played a key part in the investigation surrounding Flynn, who was ousted after revelations that he had discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador to the United States."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/trump-administration-sought-to-block-sally-yates-from-testifying-to-congress-on-russia/2017/03/28/82b73e18-13b4-11e7-9e4f-09aa75d3ec57_story.html?tid=ss&utm_term=.a3ac7af7254f

 

 

"A U.S. official confirmed a Washington Post report that Sally Yates, the then-acting U.S. attorney general, told the White House late last month that she believed Flynn had misled them about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador."

 

"She said Flynn might have put himself in a compromising position, possibly leaving himself vulnerable to blackmail, the official said."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-flynn-idUSKBN15S0BR

 

Operative phrase:

"she believed Flynn had misled them about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador."

 

Read much?

 

That's all very well, and obviously Flynn is complicit in something. Asserting that "something" was "promising the Russkies the US would lift sanctions", is not a fact, but a guess. Repeating it as fact, while going on about such issues as the post-fact era is absurd.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

         I 'made up' that Flynn clandestinely spoke with Russian official(s) in December?   Not really, if you follow the news.  Flynn was instructed by Putin-lover Trump to secretly assure the Russians that Trump's team would pull back (Obama-era) sanctions on Russia.  Soon after that was revealed (by journalists, not by politicians), Pence quickly said that didn't happen, because Pence knew it was illegal for a private citizen to negotiate with a foreign country on behalf of the US government. Of course Pence was lying.  Then Flynn had to lie, saying he didn't tell Pence.  Flynn 'fell on his sword' in order to protect Pence.  

 

         The whole time, Trump knew about all that, but of course Trump had to double down on the lies - with his team.  Someone had to take the fall, so the good soldier Flynn was chosen.  Even after Flynn was booted out, Trump announced that Flynn did nothing wrong - which could mean several things:    #1. it indicates Trump thinks it's ok for a private US citizen to negotiate with a foreign country while representing himself as the US government.   #2 it indicates Trump is ok with secretly scrapping sanctions that the US has imposed on a foreign country, #3  it indicates it's ok for there to be a bunch of lying going on at the top.   Any one, two, or all 3 of those things are valid points, based on the facts.

 

                          Maddow is doing more (to find out what really went on between Trumpsters and the Russkies) than all 3 investigative committees combined.   .....and connecting the dots.   Same for Olbermann and a few other adept adept journalists.    They make Republican congresspeople look like partisan ding-dongs who couldn't figure how to zip their zippers after taking a pee. 

 

"Flynn was instructed by Putin-lover Trump to secretly assure the Russians that Trump's team would pull back (Obama-era) sanctions on Russia."

 

Made up, guesswork, opinion....call it what you like. Presenting it as an undisputed, unqualified reality is not a strong argument. The content of Flynn's calls was not made public, and if it was all as obvious as claimed, there would be no case for him to strike an immunity deal.

 

Journalists, even your favorite ones, often rely on and quote information received from sources within intelligence agencies and/or sources close to the investigations.

[Scott]

I suggest that members stop with the bickering.   I think most of us can reasonably ascertain an opinion from a fact, which is usually supported with a link.   

 

 

[Minnie the Minx]

18 minutes ago, Scott said:

I suggest that members stop with the bickering.   I think most of us can reasonably ascertain an opinion from a fact, which is usually supported with a link.   

May I give you a bit of advice Sir Scott.

 

If nothing else works with bickering...try this *wink*

 

Edited April 6, 2017 by Minnie the Minx

[iReason]

Just now, Morch said:

 

That's all very well, and obviously Flynn is complicit in something. Asserting that "something" was "promising the Russkies the US would lift sanctions", is not a fact, but a guess. Repeating it as fact, while going on about such issues as the post-fact era is absurd.

Your tedious bloviating is pointless.

 

I responded to a poster's erroneous assertion that: "all that is known"

 

To him perhaps...

 

Not to acting attorney general Sally Yates:

"she believed Flynn had misled them about the nature of his communications with the Russian ambassador."

[iReason]

Good news!

That partisan hack and mole Nunes, has stepped down.

 

Nunes steps away from Russia probe, citing ethics complaints

 

"The decision by Rep. Devin Nunes of California comes amid partisan turmoil on the House intelligence committee."

 

"Democrats have alleged that Nunes, who was on President Donald Trump's transition team, is too close to the White House and cannot lead an impartial inquiry, and the House ethics committee is investigating whether he improperly disclosed classified information."

 

"Nunes' move could be seen as a win for Democrats whose cries for an independent panel to investigate Russia's possible ties with the Trump campaign have grown. They have pointed in particular to two Nunes trips to the White House — one announced, one not — as evidence that his loyalty to Trump outweighs his commitment to leading a bipartisan investigation."

 

http://www.bostonherald.com/news/us_politics/2017/04/nunes_steps_away_from_russia_probe_citing_ethics_complaints

 

The House Ethics Committee has been asked to investigate Nunes. 

 

[iReason]

The fascists are trying to stifle free speech:

 

Twitter sues U.S. over demand for records on anti-Trump account

 

"Twitter Inc said in a lawsuit on Thursday that it had received a demand from U.S. officials for records that could reveal the user behind an account opposed to President Donald Trump and that it was challenging the demand in court."

 

"Following Trump's inauguration in January, anonymous Twitter feeds voicing concerns at more than a dozen U.S. government agencies appeared to challenge the president's views on climate change and other issues."

 

"The rights of free speech afforded Twitter’s users and Twitter itself under the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution include a right to disseminate such anonymous or pseudonymous political speech," Twitter said in the lawsuit."

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-twitter-lawsuit-idUSKBN1782PH

 

And so it began: 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2017/02/24/donald-trump-cpac-media-enemy-of-the-people/98347970/

[Jai Dee]

An off-topic post and reply have been removed from this thread.

[balo]

I know Syria deserves it when they use chemical weapons but I am worried about the world peace with Trump in charge. It could get a lot worse.

[Andaman Al]

Well these strikes have also been a nice diversion from other news. I see now that the honeymoon is over and Trumps administration's actions start to take effect the US job figures are now down to 98 000 for March when the last two months (and the last year) the figures have been well above the 200K mark. Can't wait for April and May lmao.

[boomerangutang]

                          Nunes is not stepping down nor recusing himself from the House Intelligence Committee or from its Trump/Russian investigation.  He is simply stepping aside - until there's less shit hitting the fan about him being a shill for Trump.  He worked for the Trump transition team for kryssaches.

 

                  In his place is another varicose-vein-in-the-brain right winger - from Texas.  

 

                 The ranking Dem on the committee, Schiff, should have been put in charge.  He's willing & able to do the work of finding out if there are law-breakers - and to what extent.  Republicans aren't.  At most, Republicans are concerned about leakers, so they can punish them, and continue to shield Trumpsters from flack, as much as possible.

[Ramen087]

On 4/3/2017 at 8:50 PM, Tawan Dok Krating Daeng said:

 

Your contrariness is pure baiting. You make no serious argument in defense of your 'position' beyond wait and see. You attempt to support this position with self serving and bogus claims. It is well known among actual pundits that a President has only a maximum of 18 months to implement their platform before getting bogged down by the mid terms and second term issues (if there is one). 45's political capital has diminished daily since well before his inauguration.

 

Those who voted for the clown and apparently 'don't see' what the rest of us see, will need to start offering more than excuses otherwise they will disappear into the political noise and fade away into the irrelevance from which they came. Meanwhile, actual movements like the Tea Party and Progressives will find real leaders, develop real policies and build real political organizations. Neither Trump nor any of his arse-lickers have the wherewithal to form his voting bloc into a real political movement.

 

Take your 18 months. There will be no coalescence. Merely a constant shedding of the loons and nuts who lucked into this administration. I hope to see Bannon ousted first and then the shopping list of idiot Cabinet.

I baited no one except those looking to reconfirm their bias as a part of the anti-Trump crew.  Time will tell if the Trump administration can enact real change.  Overturning the very ill advised and naive trust placed in Assad and his claim to have rid himself of all chemical weapons represents a good start. More fine tuning of the administration's personnel will follow. Thank you for your opinion as provided by many others in the left leaning media and have a nice day.

[Ramen087]

On 4/3/2017 at 9:01 PM, Morch said:

 

Here's a little list of wait-until-after things...

 

The primaries.

The elections.

The electoral college vote.

The inauguration.

The first month in office.

 

Nothing to indicate Trump changed or will change.

 

Now a couple more:

 

The first year.

The midterm elections.

 

No worries.

We have seen a big change already, from the poor decision to trust Assad vs. taking action. A decisive move applauded not by everyone, but most definitely appreciated on both sides of the aisle in the Congress and the Senate.  Three months in, and we have a major adjustment in policy. More moves in personnel to come.  Inertia will not be allowed to set in. Twelve to fifteen months hence let's see what has taken place. 

Edited April 10, 2017 by Ramen087

[Jingthing]

This thread is not about trumpist cheerleading. It's about the resistance to trump. If a miracle occurs and there is no longer a need for resistance, it will fade away. Please desist from further attempts to hijack this thread with trumpist cheerleading. There are always other world news threads where trump true believers can inject their POV and still be on topic.

Edited April 10, 2017 by Jingthing

[iReason]

TRUMP: 'I think we've had one of the most successful 13 weeks in the history of the presidency'

 

"Trump, who's been in office for just short of 11 weeks, has faced a number of challenges and setbacks in his early weeks in office."

 

"The cloud is showing no signs of dissipating, as FBI Director James Comey announced earlier this month that his agency was looking into potential collusion between Trump associates and Russian government officials to interfere in last year's presidential election."

 

"Rampant infighting among diverging factions of his administration has added to the perception that Trump has struggled to gain traction in the first weeks of his presidency."

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/trump-successful-13-weeks-but-its-only-been-11-weeks-2017-4

 

"I think we've had one of the most successful 13 weeks in the history of the presidency"  

 

 

The Doof doesn't even know he's been in office 11 weeks.

 

Lap it up Trumpeteers....

Edited April 10, 2017 by iReason

[iReason]

Pulitzers: Investigation into Trump's philanthropy wins

 

"An investigation into Donald Trump's pledges to charitable causes during the US presidential election campaign has won a Pulitzer prize."

 

"Washington Post reporter David Fahrenthold articles "created a model for transparent journalism" and cast doubt on Mr Trump's assertions of generosity, the Pulitzer board said."

 

"Mr Fahrenthold began asking questions after Mr Trump promised to donate $6m (£4.8m) to military veterans' organisations and found that, while that pledge did get fulfilled, many previous claims of philanthropic activities had been exaggerated, the Washington Post newspaper said."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-39561401

 

The real world Trumpeteers. 

 

Not the illusion fabricated for you by your Glorious Leader.

[iReason]

Trump, who scorned Obama's golf habits, outpacing him in rounds

 

"Palm Beach, Florida (CNN)President Donald Trump is well outpacing his predecessor on the green, making his 16th visit to one of his eponymous golf courses since taking office as he marks the end of another weekend at his Florida getaway."

 

"Trump was spotted Sunday driving a golf cart and making a putt at his Trump International Golf Course -- the only sign of his activities at the facility since his handlers have declined to detail what he's doing inside the private establishment."

 

"You know what -- and I love golf -- but if I were in the White House, I don't think I'd ever see Turnberry [in Scotland] again. I don't think I'd ever see Doral again -- I own Doral, in Miami. I don't think I'd ever see many of the places that I have," Trump said last year. "I don't ever think that I'd see anything. I just wanna stay in the White House and work my ass off, make great deals, right? Who's gonna leave? I mean, who's gonna leave?"

 

http://www.cnn.com/2017/04/09/politics/trump-outpacing-obama-golf/index.html

 

"I just wanna stay in the White House and work my ass off, make great deals, right?"

 

 Trumpeteers, you've been conned.

[funandsuninbangkok]

Guess Trump don't need no stinkin red line in the sand. Boom

[JHolmesJr]

i dont begrudge a man a few rounds of golf…..he's probably strategising as he plays.

[Jingthing]

About the wrecking ball that is trump. Can America's institutions survive such assaults intact?

 

 

http://www.latimes.com/projects/la-ed-trumps-authoritarian-vision/

 

Quote

Trump’s Authoritarian Vision
...
Trump betrays no sense for the president’s place among the myriad of institutions in the continuum of governance. He seems willing to violate long-established political norms without a second thought, and he cavalierly rejects the civility and deference that allow the system to run smoothly. He sees himself as not merely a force for change, but as a wrecking ball.

 

Edited April 11, 2017 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/04/10/politics/donald-trump-obama-travel-costs/index.html

Trump on pace to surpass 8 years of Obama's travel spending in 1 year