Govt approves 10 year visas for foreigners over 50

[joeyg]

22 hours ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

It would 'replace' the retirement visa for folks currently using it, who wish to have a 10 year visa (or more likely extension).. Not remove the option totally.. Is how I read it. 

Anyway bring it on.. If if gets rid of some of the moaners and penny pinchers.. Thailand is no longer cheap, 300 baht yuppie beers and fashionable sets.. Get rid of the chang singlet contingent and I dont think Thailand is going to cry a river. 

I think it sounds like a step in the right direction.  Only good can come from it.

[puukao]

I wrote on my visa application, "I want to save the world!!!!"  and all they cared about was money!!!!!

 

I came here because I had 100 baht to my name.....now they want me to have money???

 

If you are 50 (glad I'm not nearly that old).......you might live 25 more OK years.........

 

trust me, in 25-years, you are going to need to be SUPER RICH!!!!

 

so plan ahead!!!!!

 

if you have to go work at McD back home on the overnight shift, you must!!!

 

i am off for mango shake!!!  glad my last business sold for millions...

 

 

[Chopperboy]

I have been waiting for this for a while. Thais don't want low income ferangs here anymore, those who come here because they can't afford to live in their home country. Those ferang are using the services and infrastructure of Thailand while contributing next to nothing. They pay no income tax to cover for the government costs, and if they get sick often use subsidized Thai health care. 

 

The rate of retire loosers coming here has been growing exponentially..  it was time to call it a day and impose a maximum quota, or up the Terms & Conditions. Looks like they picked the latter.  Good riddance - go else where.

[Wilsonandson]

Source: www.thaigov.go.th  = Nothing more to add or say !

Have you translated it properly?

[digibum]

5 hours ago, mettech said:

What are they thinking really??? Who of the foreigners that are living on government or companies ension would have 100k per month revenue and still go report every three months???

They will have to rethink this one am looking at Vietnam for future decision.

 

Finally, someone who is asking the important question.  The 90 day reporting thing is a load of dung.  It's one of the reasons why Thailand is slowly fading from my list of possible retirement locations.  I'm willing to jump through the hoops of showing income and financial resources but <deleted> to the 90 day reporting.  There's absolutely no reason for it and it's just a constant reminder that in Thailand you're never really welcome.  

 

 

[mania]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

What's in that. I see nothing on that page. Blocked as unsafe.

 

It is in Thai but this is what it is basically (translated so may be some errors)

 

Extending the period of stay in the Kingdom of Thailand for a long stay (Long Stay Visa).

Cabinet approved in principle to extend the period of stay in the Kingdom of Thailand for a long stay (Long Stay Visa) under the Ministry of Public Health (MOPH). Offer and the Interior Ministry carried out a post or update the law in relation to. according to the Cabinet next.

 

 

 

The essence of the matter

TBA. Report

1. found that most foreigners traveling to the elderly residing in long-term increase. Recognized by the visa form. Non-Immigrant Visa Code OA (Long Stay) Ministry of Tourism and Sports (kg) informed that in 2557 the number of foreigners who have been approved to stay in the Kingdom of Thailand top 15 include the UK, US, Switzerland. Switzerland, Japan, France, Australia, Canada, India, Italy, Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, China and Taiwan, foreign groups are potential group. And are residing in the country's top tourist destinations, including Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai and Chonburi province, a famous seaside strip.

2. TBA. And kg was agreed at a meeting of the Board to develop and promote Ireland as a center for Medical and Wellness Tourism No. 5/2559 to extend the period of stay in the Kingdom of Thailand for a long stay. long (long Stay Visa) from 1 year to 10 years and be carried out in 14 countries, including the Netherlands, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland, France, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Australia, USA, England, Japan, Canada, with the rules being considered. Summarized as follows:

1) the age of the applicant is a foreigner aged 50 years temporary visa. (Non-immigrant) code OA (Long Stay) from the Consulate General of Thailand abroad. Or foreigners who travel to Thailand on a visa and stay for a while with a wish to change the type to obtain a visa for a long stay. And allowed to stay in Thailand at one time up to five years in the Multiple Entry and can be renewed for the second renewal to stay in Thailand for up to five years in a Multiple Entry.

2) the fee is 10,000 Baht

3) deposits or money in a deposit account must have three million baht. Or a monthly income of 100,000 baht to the renewal of the two must show the amount of money deposited in the account or the monthly income of the same with the documents in the first and maintained deposit accounts as shown in. the Bank of Thailand is a statutory minimum period of one year from the date of receiving a visa. After that it will withdraw up to 50 percent with proof of funds to spend in Thailand, such as the medical treatment. Condominium vehicles and education of children.

4) a certificate of health must show documentation of health insurance (Medical Insurance) coverage period is one year, with coverage for medical expenses in case of an outpatient at least US $ 1,000, and if the patient is not less than 10,000. US $ 1 for the first policy year.

5) to report every 90 days through the immigration office determined.

6) benefits Can take legal spouse aged 50 years and over were asked Long Stay Visa has filed documents in deposits and monthly income separately. If your spouse is younger than 50 years old to use the visa. Code O and non-immigrant children under the age of 21 years to track the family to study in Thailand. The visa non-immigrant ED code, including the ability to purchase vehicles. A condominium in Thailand (Trading condominiums will be subject to the Condominium Act, 2522), the money will be used to purchase a condominium must be transferred to a foreign bank, the Bank of Thailand and Finance to issue the certificate. And the nature of volunteer work without expecting returns. Which will be conducted under the law governing the work of aliens.

 

Source: www.thaigov.go.th

Edited November 23, 2016 by mania

[Spellforce]

from www.thaigov.go.th

 

Or foreigners who travel to Thailand on a visa and stay for a while (= VISA O + 1 year extensions) with a wish to change the type to obtain a visa for a long stay (= VISA O-A 2 X 5 years)

[digibum]

3 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

Considering those people already comply to financial requirements that are almost five times the average wage, and eight times the minimum wage, I would say these people aren't low spenders or earners by any stretch of the imagination. Stop comparing apples and oranges, this is Thailand not the United states.

 

No, if you want to quit comparing apples and oranges, quit equating the income/bank requirements with what Thais make.  Thailand is nearly a third-world country!!!!!!!  The same standard should not apply to people who are being allowed entry based solely on the fact that they have sufficient resources to not become a burden on Thai society.  

 

Someone making the "average" wage in Thailand lives 3 or 4 people to a room.  Go travel upcountry a bit and look at the hovels that many "average" Thai people live in.  Back in their own countries half of what people in Thailand consider their home would be considered condemned property.  I know "average" Thai people who's families live in what amounts to a barn that they wouldn't even keep their livestock in due to fear of the building falling over in a brisk wind.  

 

Thailand doesn't want more of the "average".  They want to attract more of the people who can afford to live in Bangkok or Phuket.  Not people who want to live Thai-style up in Issan.  

 

 

[JLCrab]

This is the page on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs website wherein the requirements for an O-A visa is detailed. When something changes, I guess I'll pay attention -- or some new Police Order issued. 

http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

 

'Til then ...

Edited November 23, 2016 by JLCrab

[LivinLOS]

6 hours ago, bamukloy said:

 

Obviously because you get the account from satisfying some other requirement of a non O visa.

 

But the article in Thai says this for tourists..who would not have any other way of getting a Thai bank account 

 

 

I had Thai bank accounts on 30 day visa exempt entries.. On Tourist visas.. And eventually on Non Imm Os. 

 

 

[NoshowJones]

The Thai government is not going to bring out any sort of visa that is going to be positive for any westerners unless they are rich. making things easier for the average expat is just not in the Thai mindset.

[sgtsabai]

One way or the other, I don't qualify, I can't meet the insurance and barely meet the income. So, I'll stick with my O-A based on retirement unless they throw me out.

 

I live in Issan, 3 bedroom, 2 bath modern house, bought new Chevy Z71, wife and kids and barely make it payday to payday (I do have "other expenses"). Life is good, I don't meet the rich boy's qualifications and I'm damn sure not one of them, thankfully. And to those "I'm rich and you're not", stick it where the sun doesn't shine. I worked for what I have, hard, day and night, putting in 16/18 hrs. sometimes more, in danger, always putting my life on the line for the public. I didn't earn a lot of money, but I damn sure did it honorably, more than I can say for 99% of the "business" type people I've met, most of whom were born privileged to start with and don't have a clue what it is like to really work for a living. Like I said, stick it!

[sjaak327]

4 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

No, if you want to quit comparing apples and oranges, quit equating the income/bank requirements with what Thais make.  Thailand is nearly a third-world country!!!!!!!  The same standard should not apply to people who are being allowed entry based solely on the fact that they have sufficient resources to not become a burden on Thai society.  

 

Someone making the "average" wage in Thailand lives 3 or 4 people to a room.  Go travel upcountry a bit and look at the hovels that many "average" Thai people live in.  Back in their own countries half of what people in Thailand consider their home would be considered condemned property.  I know "average" Thai people who's families live in what amounts to a barn that they wouldn't even keep their livestock in due to fear of the building falling over in a brisk wind.  

 

Thailand doesn't want more of the "average".  They want to attract more of the people who can afford to live in Bangkok or Phuket.  Not people who want to live Thai-style up in Issan.  

 

 

Hmm so a third rate country with third rate prices should have financial requirements that are well above average for WORKING people in a first rate country ? You might have to run that by me again.

 

As to people with average wages living together, yes some definitely are, some are able to hire an apartment even in Bangkok on the minimum wage of 8000 baht. I actually know several that do manage to do this.

 

Now for 65.000 I can rent a nice one bedroom right in the center of Bangkok and still have ample funds to, eat pay other expenses and even have quite a bit of drinking fun.

 

I believe you have little or no idea about the cost of living in Thailand.

 

 

[hohososo]

The only thing that those of us with extensions of stay based on retirement, need to know is if we are grandfathered in on the old rate of 65 thousand dollars a month. I have three sources of retirement income, which, combined,, amounts to 87 thousand baht per month. If my current rate is grandfathered, I'm okay, if not. I have to move to Cambodia.

You are overthinking this. I will hire you as a consultant and pay you 13,000 a month.

In return for this job, you must pay me 14,000 a month.

Your problem is now solved. And I make an extra 1000 a month.

It is trivial to meet any income test, so not sure why this is even being discussed.

[digibum]

3 hours ago, tonray said:

What happens in the bear markets when equities return -30% ?

 

Well, equities markets, specifically the S&P500, has returned an average of 10% over a long period of time (since 1928) so you would have to get unlucky and retire right in the middle of a bear market 100% invested in equities for this to be a substantial concern.  

 

Now, if I was offering financial planning advice, I would say as you get closer and closer to retirement you would reduce your exposure to equities and move into fixed income.  Given the current low interest rates, not sure I would do that but real estate is a good alternative.  In a self-directed IRA or 401K you can buy real estate and get at least a 10% cash on cash return (leveraged) regardless of price appreciation.  If you don't like owning real estate and landlording (though you can hire out property management - it just eats into your returns) you can buy real estate backed notes that get at least 10% cash on cash.  And if you wanted to put in the time and effort you could make hard money (bridge) loans to real estate developers, 12 month max term, 15% interest backed by real estate.  

 

Any more questions?   

[Chopperboy]

Why should a foreigner have a right to live here TAX free while a middle class Thai has to pay tax to cover the cost of government. I am not surprised Thais are fed up with the cheapskate ferang who come here and use the country as a cheap (to them) hangout, while contributing next to nothing.

[Cuchulainn]

One thing bothers me:

 

What will happen after the first 5 years? I presume they will check that the 3 million was in the bank for the first year as required, and that the life insurance has been paid every year for those first 5 years?

 

I presume those who wish to convert to this new 'visa' will stick 3m in the bank for the first year and then withdraw it back to the original high interest account. The first 5 years is over, the a trip to Immigration to check you have been complying with the regulations and no other payments?? Or will the 3m be required for another year after the first 5 years are up

Edited November 23, 2016 by Cuchulainn

[metisdead]

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[LivinLOS]

5 hours ago, zaphod reborn said:

 

And what do you know about the law?  You were incorrect about all visas having to be issued outside of Thailand.  I'm a labor lawyer, working 10 years in Thailand in HR-Legal.  I think I might know a thing or two about how immigration and work visas actually play out in Thailand.

 

Other than the Thailand elite (which has a special issue process) what visas are issued inside Thailand ?? 

Even visa on arrival is applied and issued airside before immigration. 

[Morch]

19 hours ago, soalbundy said:

try getting a bank loan on farm land, you only get a small proportion of what the land is worth. Actually the hospital knew us and trusted we were good for the money, the wife only produced the deeds for 100 rai which they just shoved into a drawer and without further ado stamped the bill with paid for the insurance,two weeks later the insurance paid up. 

 

That's one of the things I like about Thailand, stuff could be sorted out this way. Doubt the same could be pulled off back home, wherever that is for any of us.

[Jingthing]

Where are the ALPHA visa gurus when we need them?

Strangely silent. 

[Spellforce]

1 minute ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Other than the Thailand elite (which has a special issue process) what visas are issued inside Thailand ?? 

Even visa on arrival is applied and issued airside before immigration. 

3 months VISA O (done in Bangkok) that allows you n X 1 year extensions (done in your immigration office)

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, sjaak327 said:

if you are paying low skilled employers 1200 euros after taxes per week, you are either incredebly stupid or not telling the truth. No low skilled workers in the Netherlands bring home 4800 euro per month. The average Net wage is 2200... The same for Belgium.

 

 

I import self employed EU nationals from lower tax jurisdictions through the EU cross border rules.. 

 

Makes it trivial to undercut the competition and make major money very very easily. 

[digibum]

3 minutes ago, sjaak327 said:

Hmm so a third rate country with third rate prices should have financial requirements that are well above average for WORKING people in a first rate country ? You might have to run that by me again.

 

As to people with average wages living together, yes some definitely are, some are able to hire an apartment even in Bangkok on the minimum wage of 8000 baht. I actually know several that do manage to do this.

 

Now for 65.000 I can rent a nice one bedroom right in the center of Bangkok and still have ample funds to, eat pay other expenses and even have quite a bit of drinking fun.

 

I believe you have little or no idea about the cost of living in Thailand.

 

 

 

I think the point you keep missing - REPEATEDLY - is that Thailand has the sovereign right to make up whatever requirements they deem fit.  You have zero rights.  None.  Nada.  It doesn't matter if it makes sense to you or it's fair or unfair or whatever.  They have a right to put whatever criteria they want on visas.  

 

I have plenty of ideas about the cost of living in Bangkok since I recently lived there.  Unlike the people you know paying 8,000 baht a month rent, I was the kind of person Thailand is probably targeting to have living in Thailand since my monthly nut was more around $3,000+.  

 

I had a decent serviced apartment on Sukhumvit, ate out nearly every meal, and had plenty of money to spend on entertainment.  I wasn't rich.  I know people paying 80,000 baht a month just for rent.  

 

I also know people paying 8,000 a month to live in some apartment with no air con in slummy neighborhoods.  Coincidently, I also happened to know two people who took their own lives when they couldn't afford those 8,000 baht a month places.  

 

It's not about whether or not you CAN live on $500 or $1,000 or $1,500 a month in Thailand.  Thailand doesn't want those people and they've said as much over and over and over again.  How many press releases can the Thai government issue about "quality tourists" before it begins to sink in that Thailand is trying to appeal to more upscale travellers, whether they be expats living there or tourists traveling through?

 

The writing has been on the wall for a long time.  Even if they walk this change back and water it down, know that this is where they want to be headed.  It's coming.  

  

[Andrew65]

14 minutes ago, Chopperboy said:

Why should a foreigner have a right to live here TAX free while a middle class Thai has to pay tax to cover the cost of government. I am not surprised Thais are fed up with the cheapskate ferang who come here and use the country as a cheap (to them) hangout, while contributing next to nothing.

We're just doing in Thailand what countless people are doing in the UK.

 

Many foreigners in the UK are getting a a few grand (£) a month for free from the British Government, probably never having worked or contributed in any way at all.

 

The same in Germany, Sweden etc, etc.

 

So, why not!?

 

People of every social class in Britain are seriously hacked off about this too.

Edited November 23, 2016 by Andrew65

[LivinLOS]

3 hours ago, Catoni said:

 

    We don't all have 100K Bhat a month coming in.  There are a lot of us who only have 65K a month retirement income.  I only have 76K Bhat a month coming in ... .   So I guess us poorer guys might have to pick up and move to Cambodia or India or Sri Lanka or the Philippines or somewhere else..  Or if we were coming back to Thailand soon after living there before.. ... we can forget it...         Bye...Bye Thailand.   It was nice...     

 

 

So just keep getting your annual extension.. 

 

This 10 year option is for those who can show that amount.. A perk for higher spenders.. Win win.. 

[Jingthing]

I totally understand why Thailand would want higher wealth retirees and totally accept they have the right to make any visa rules they choose. I would even understand if they decided to kick out ALL retirees. After all, the vast majority of nations in the world have no retirement visa program at all.

 

HOWEVER, what concerns me (personally and for others) is that if there is a phaseout of lower wealth retirees coming (either soon or later) is that it can be done in a HUMANE manner giving people who have lived here for a very long time, a reasonable amount of time to make the adjustment. I consider a five year phase out reasonable. Instantly, obviously not. Or when it comes up for your next extension, which can be instantly or as long as a year, ALSO not humane. 

 

OF course, it would be best if all people currently in the system on the current levels were allowed to be GRANDFATHERED for life on those levels. Based on the PRECEDENT of previous immigration policies, many of us kind of expected that to happen with any major change, but never saw that it was any kind of GUARANTEE. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by Jingthing

[Andrew65]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

 

So just keep getting your annual extension.. 

 

This 10 year option is for those who can show that amount.. A perk for higher spenders.. Win win.. 

Are you, or is anyone sure about that yet?

 

Also, what real perks are there over 5 years, over & above the current 800k/1year retirement deal?

Edited November 23, 2016 by Andrew65

[Chip Allen]

17 minutes ago, Chopperboy said:

Why should a foreigner have a right to live here TAX free while a middle class Thai has to pay tax to cover the cost of government. I am not surprised Thais are fed up with the cheapskate ferang who come here and use the country as a cheap (to them) hangout, while contributing next to nothing.

To answer your question: Why should I pay tax on income already earned which I did not work in Thailand to earn? I pay sales taxes on everything I buy and contribute to the economy just as every other expat does. Bottom line: we live here and take nothing out of the economy and contribute to the sales tax base with our purchases, which are considerably  more than the average Thai. Does that make it a bit clearer for you???

[alocacoc]

9 minutes ago, digibum said:

 

How many press releases can the Thai government issue about "quality tourists" before it begins to sink in that Thailand is trying to appeal to more upscale travellers, whether they be expats living there or tourists traveling through?

  

 

Well, if a country looks for "quality tourists" then it should also be able to offer quality service, infrastructure, law enforcement, low corruption and so on. I guess, this kind of "quality tourists" which is Thailand are looking for, prefers other destinations. 

 

The way it goes, is a bad equation imo. But it's up to them. And even the last expat should have learned that nothing is sure here. Everything may change overnight. That's the main reason, why I don't invest anything in real estate. The most valuable what i bought was a motorcycle. More and more foreigners come to this conclusion. Uncertainty is bad for the economy and the tourist sector.

Edited November 23, 2016 by alocacoc