3 tourist visas in one year too much??!!

[at15]

Im currently stuck in dmk they are refusing entry. Sleeping in holding room. I just flew in from penang getting my third tourist visa there all three back to back in penang. These are the only three tourist visas in my life for thailand. They are saying i have to go back to penang tomorrow. Stay in my country too much !! 250 days..they said limit is 180 in a year. Wondering if anything i can do tomorrow when talking with them. I said 20k baht to show, ticket out of thailand.They said nope doesnt matter computer saying no entry. Maybe a bribe?

Edited November 23, 2016 by at15

[BritTim]

Do you mean a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry? If they are real tourist visas, this is very odd. You are US nationality, right? Did you have any overstays? If you overstayed and then immediately tried to come back, your experience is, perhaps, understandable. Are they holding on to your passport right now?

[elviajero]

This is a first, even for DMK!

 

If they've already denied entry I doubt there's anything you can do other than go back to Penang.

 

Normally the recommendation would be to try another entry point, but if they are claiming the computer says no then there's a good chance you could be denied at all checkpoints.

 

You could try a land entry at the Malaysian border because if they deny entry you can turn around and go back into Malaysia.

 

If you get a formal denial stamp in your passport it will make future entries difficult. They should issue with a letter confirming the formal denial. Once you have that people might be able to better advise you.

[Xircal]

You're coming up against the scenario BritTim described back in April I think.

[at15]

Yes real 60 day tourist visas. The first two i extended 30 days. This third one i just received yesterday 11/23 and fly back to dmk denied. thought this was really weird since i did what im supposed to do. Never had an overstay. Yes u.s. citizen. And yes they are holding my passport they have some paper filled out about denied person but i have not signed it yet. One guy said just wait a couple months and come by land for some reason easier than plane? They tried to get 800 baht out of me for this holding room and giving me food but i refused and just bought a sandwich from airport. 

Edited November 23, 2016 by at15

[Jamin123]

I would get a ticket to Cambodia rather than go back to Malaysia. I know most people here aren't wild about Cambodia but I was there 2 weeks ago and found really safe, big and comfy private rooms in major guesthouses for  $6-$10 in every big cities. Meals were $1.50-$3 and beer .50 cents. I think there're more boarder crossing options from Cambodia. 

[zxzoomy]

Maybe they think you're working in Thailand? If you can persuade them you're not you might get in. 

[ubonjoe]

You could appeal the denial of entry. They have to respond to it within 7 days.

It would mean staying in detention until decided.

What does the paper they want you to sign state as the reason for denial of entry.

[dotpoom]

6 hours ago, BritTim said:

Do you mean a tourist visa or a visa exempt entry? If they are real tourist visas, this is very odd. You are US nationality, right? Did you have any overstays? If you overstayed and then immediately tried to come back, your experience is, perhaps, understandable. Are they holding on to your passport right now?

Just intrigued as to how you figure he is from the USA (have scrutinized his post) taking into account his username.....(I know...maybe I should get a job or something.555)

[post]

Just a matter of interest, what was your immigration/visa status in Thailand which allowed you to stay 250 days over the year?

Edited November 24, 2016 by post

[roo860]

Just intrigued as to how you figure he is from the USA (have scrutinized his post) taking into account his username.....(I know...maybe I should get a job or something.555)

#5 says he's US citizen.
Don't get a job, get some glasses.
[emoji106]

Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app

[fvw53]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

You could appeal the denial of entry. They have to respond to it within 7 days.

It would mean staying in detention until decided.

What does the paper they want you to sign state as the reason for denial of entry.

 

Every country has the right to accept or deny entry without need to give an explanation

A stay of more than 180 days would in my EU country require to have a work permit or other reason than "tourism" to become resident / the names of our own nationals can be erased from the registers of residence if they stay out of our country for more than 180 days a year.

[important]

41 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

#5 says he's US citizen.
Don't get a job, get some glasses.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

 

 

I think you need the glasses.......BritTim asked if he was US nationality in post 2

 

 

Edited November 24, 2016 by important
.

[Mattd]

I am I missing something, the OP clearly states he just obtained his third TV from Penang, so by definition has entered on two before, therefore 2 x TV = 120 Days, 2 x extensions = 60 days, so total number of possible days would be 180 on two TV, not 250 days?

Unless one of them was ME, the intimation in his posts are they were SE?

Many reports now of this 180 day alert on the immigration system.

 

[at15]

Oh yeah sorry forgot to mention i had two visa exempt entries. 

I think this 180 day thing maybe a new alert in computer? 

 

Ubonjoe i would like to appeal but lets be honest it would like a .0001% chance right?  Really dont want to waste 7 days in this place. 

Edited November 24, 2016 by at15

[AlQaholic]

56 minutes ago, roo860 said:

 

#5 says he's US citizen.
Don't get a job, get some glasses.


Sent from my SM-G920F using Thaivisa Connect mobile app
 

 

BritTim answered before #5.......

Edited November 24, 2016 by AlQaholic

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, fvw53 said:

 

Every country has the right to accept or deny entry without need to give an explanation

 

Thailand does put the reason for the denial of entry on a stamp in a persons passport. It has the paragraph numbers  of section 12 of the immigration act that were the basis for denial of entry.

I think it is misconception to say that countries do not  need to give a reason for the denial.

[moto77]

The US has the exact same rule. My GF has a 10 year US visa and gets 180 day stamps, but she can't spend more than 180 days in a year in the US total. (She never tried, but I've known other women that tried going to Mexico and coming back. They were not denied, but given shorter stamps and told about the rule.) This is getting to be pretty common I think. Once you are over 180 days in country, you're a resident. 

[LPCustom69]

This may become the norm.

[mduras01]

Note to self: bring sleeping bag and a bottle of whiskey on my return flight to DMK next week.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[whitelion87]

I hope this is not offical regulation

Edited November 24, 2016 by whitelion87

[whitelion87]

Hi there,

 

It seems this is the new process within immigration computers and that you're not alone. I currently have 2 Tourist Visa's in my passport (approx. 120 days total), both extended (to roughly an additional 30 days each), plus 1 previous visa exemption (of exactly 12 days), plus the current visa exemption I am on at the moment. I had previously asked a similar question on this forum, having experienced somewhat of an oddity as this after having flown from Auckland to Bangkok on the 8th of November.

 

This is my theory based on my experience, some background research on other websites and a count up of my passport stamps and days spent in Thailand - up until my first Visa Exemption stamp - I was in Thailand for a total of 179 days. Why did they allow me entry for the first visa exemption stamp? Based on your account, it could be that the immigration system has been configured to flag any passport that have reached 180 days of Tourist and Visa Exemption stamps, however by luck I was short 1 day (having stayed an exact total of 179 days) which allowed me to pass that system's configuration without issue or question upon my first visa exemption entry - I then stayed for 12 days then leaving Suvanabhumi back to Auckland, NZ (upon departure, I'd stayed 191 days).

 

I returned to Bangkok through Suvanabhumi Airport on the 8th of November, and was flagged by the system (having stayed 191 days) - not the Immigration Officer. Upon my passport being scanned at Suvanabhumi Airport, the computer had identified that I had come into the country 'too often' as the immigration officer had said. She had proceeded to ask me in English if I was doing business here, and why would I need to come back often - I quickly responded in Thai that I was here often to be with my partner and it seemed as if I had alleviated the situation somehow simply by speaking the local language. Even in Thai, the questions - 'Where are you staying in Bangkok', 'What do you normally do back in New Zealand?' - were still asked. 

 

The questions can catch anyone off guard after a minor 12 hour flight. The first officer told me that she'll grant my permission of stay, but she'll have her boss came and override the system and to explain to me why my passport was flagged. Her boss also gave me some further recommendations. I think many western people have seen how two completely unknown Thai people can suddenly strike up a conversation in a shop, on the street, at a stall etc.. as if they're two friends who have'nt seen each other in decades - and as my Thai is very good - that's exactly what I did.

 

The reason, as the boss explained, is that although she believed I was not working and I was not doing any business here, the computer 'thinks' otherwise - as such it automatically flagged my passport simply due to the fact that using that amount of Tourist Visa's/Exemptions in a single period could not possibly mean I was doing 'touristy' things - like travelling or holidaying in any sense a typical tourist would do abroad. By this point, she had already granted my permission of stay for 30 days and further explained that her line of thought was that for the average person, if you're here in Thailand that often and for that long on Tourist Visa's, it means you're not anywhere else working - except here in Thailand. I understood what she was saying, and asked for recommendations.

 

Her recommendation was that I apply for a Non-Immigration 'O' visa to stay with my partner here in Thailand if I was intending to do so long-term. I then said to her 'that seems difficult, would'nt it be easier for me if I just came back next time on a consulate or embassy issued Tourist Visa instead of a Visa Exemption?" her response was that the next time the same thing would happen - the system will flag it if it's a Tourist Visa or Visa Exemption, even if I have applied and been approved for the Tourist Visa at a consulate or embassy, the system at the airport will flag it in the same manner'. So, she said, even though you're here for your partner a Tourist Visa is for travelling so next time I recommend you use a Non-immigration 'O' visa. She also stated that since she had overriden the system this time, I would not be allowed to extend my current visa exemption if I wanted to.

 

She believed rightly that I was not working or doing business because, now I'm just assuming; first, the frequency of my travels, second the short length of my last visa exemption stay, third I had told the truth about previously overstaying my visa by 2 days - which she had verified by checking my exit stamp was indeed cancelled in my passport (I got stamped out of immigration on time, but did'nt make it to the gate on time), and fourth I admitted that I come to Thailand frequently to be with my partner and not for tourist activities, fifth I requested that if there was any doubt about my situation then she is welcome to speak to my partner who was waiting outside the arrivals gate - all this, it kind of seals the deal if you know what I mean, and make's the immigration officer come out as the one 'helping' me. Although these details may seem trivial, I would not be suprised if immigration officers are not often lied to by foreigners especially if the officer has been working for years at the airport having seen so many foreigners work here without the right sort of visa's or permits - and having been beratted for it by their senior officials.

 

I intend to do as she had recommended, plus ensure I have internet access to illustrate regular income deposits into my NZ bank account - thus, squashing any idea that I have any 'need' to work in Thailand - I recommend other's to do the same.

 

I understand how you feel and I feel sorry for you that you've experienced this, and it may also feel that you've been forced into this situation without any forceeable means of getting back into your normal routine; so I hope that you'll be able to speedily re-enter Thailand without difficulty in the near future and, if I may suggest, do so with a long term visa which would allow you a more permanent means of living here.

 

From your account, you've been here for a total of 250 days and immigration officers have clearly spoken of a limit of 180 days - this means they've clearly started backdating and there is a certain limit. It may also mean that it began up to 6 months ago so people will only just begin talking about it.

 

Although it seems that this is a new official process, it may only be so at Suvanabhumi airport or it may not be at all. Does Thai Visa have any official contacts within immigration to verify this train of thought? Nevertheless, I may be going down to Chaengwattana to see if I can extend my current visa exemption, and verify if the official who had overriden the computer system at the airport was actually interpreting the procedures correctly - if she is right, I'd be declined an extension of stay and that there is indeed a limit on tourist visa's and visa exemptions, but if she is wrong then many people are being denied entry without following official regulations in spite of the applicant's reason for entry; this could prove worrying for not just those on Tourist Visa and Visa exemption if that is indeed the train of thought. 

 

 

[mduras01]

Side note to OP: Vietnam now gives US citizens one year multiple entry visas.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[buick]

i arrived at suvarnabhumi on Nov 1 and had no issues.  i have stayed over 180 days each year for 10 yrs in thailand using tourist visa's and visa exempt entries.  all TV's were obtained in USA, some single entry, some double.  i remember getting pulled aside several years ago and was told i should use tourist visa's rather than visa exempts (i've only done 2 land border crossings in the 10 years).  maybe the new rules started after i arrived.  i just turned 50 so i can finally get the proper visa.

Edited November 24, 2016 by buick

[whitelion87]

Just to provide some more background information, a nice summary is found here by BritTim:

"The limits on visa exempts are quite unclear. As best as I can tell, six visa exempt entries totaling 180 days in Thailand will cause the immigration official to receive an alert hat the entry should be scrutinized more closely than normal. (This alert does not depend on whether entries are back-to-back, and the aging of the visa exempt entries until no longer considered relevant is also unclear.)

When the alert is received, at an airport, you will probably be referred to a superior official who will question you with a special emphasis on whether you can support yourself in Thailand without working illegally. If satisfied, you will be allowed entry. There is no hard limit on the number of visa exempt entries possible. However, the official will probably lecture you that you are not using visa exempt entries as intended and should get a suitable visa.

At some land borders, once an alert is shown, the immigration official may (illegally) just refuse to allow you to enter saying "the computer told him to do it". In theory, there is an appeals process against this, but in practice there is little you can do.

In other words, clear as mud. You are safe doing a few; after that who knows?"

[moe666]

Do not sign anything unless it is in english. Also I know this is a sore point but what kind of tourist stays in a country for half a year. Most tourist are two weeksand gone. I think they have finally come to realize that staying on a tourist visa more than 6 months they are living here may not be working but living in Thailand without proper visa. I personally donot care what people do but Thailand seems to be wakeing up to all of the miss use of there visas

[Muggi1968]

Why do i newer have problems with immigration in Thailand ????
Maybe i smell ???

Edited November 24, 2016 by Muggi1968

[Mickster58]

when they say 180 days in a year. Is that from January to December... or 180 days anytime, like july 2015 to march 2016?

Edited November 24, 2016 by Mickster58

[Muggi1968]

1 minute ago, Muggi1968 said:

Why do i newer have problems with immigration in Thailand ????
Maybe i smell ???

 

The less you worry the happier you will bee

[buick]

29 minutes ago, moe666 said:

Do not sign anything unless it is in english. Also I know this is a sore point but what kind of tourist stays in a country for half a year. Most tourist are two weeksand gone. I think they have finally come to realize that staying on a tourist visa more than 6 months they are living here may not be working but living in Thailand without proper visa. I personally donot care what people do but Thailand seems to be wakeing up to all of the miss use of there visas

 

some people retire before age 50.  it would be nice if they had a visa for those people (maybe eliminate the age requirement).