My Thai wife has died unexpectedly

[Randell]

My Thai wife Jan Peng died very unexpectedly on the 10 Nov.

I am on a Non Immigrant O  multiple entry visa. I can get one more  3 month stamp on Jan 2.

Or will that only be till the visa's expiry date?

It was issued in Vancouver on Feb 26,16 expires on Feb 25 ,17.

 But then need to know if there is any provision for death of spouse and applying for visa by marriage.

My current pension is too small to qualify for a retirement visa.

 I have a great relationship with all the family here and  Pu Yai Ban or Kannam not sure of titles in the village and am well liked.

Is it possible to have one of them sign my application papers.

Or is it just simply no go once you spouse dies.

I am not worried about the house or land as it will go to the sister and I will be able to live the rest of my life there in the village  trying to farm 17 rai.

It would have gone to her in the event of my wife's death anyway.

I have been with her for 22 years and bought the land and built the house  long years ago but we only  registered the marriage 2 years ago.

Any and all advice welcome still in a daze and unsure of how to proceed. 

Thank you 

Randell

[acid thunder]

I'm sure you'll get the advice you need and hope things work out for you, Randell.

[wayned]

Sorry to hear about your loss, my wife died suddenly on 23 March 2015, but I am on a retirement extension and have extended it twice since then.

 

Your multiple entry visa is valid until  Feb 25, 2017.  You can make as many entries as you want up until that date and you will get 90 days on entry.  If you exit and return on 25 Feb you will get 90 days even though the actual visa has expired. 

 

If you do not have any children and do not qualify financially for a retirement extension your only option will be to either get a single entry tourist visa in a nearby country or return home and get a METV.  There is no option  for the local village chief or others to sponsor you.

[ubonjoe]

My sympathy to you.

Your visa can be used for entry up to the 25th of February and you will get a new 90 day entry.

You could apply for a retirement extension by using the combination of income and money in the bank to reach a total of 800k baht.

There is this provision in police order 327/2557. It might be worth trying for with support from your wife's family.

 

Quote

5. In the case where an alien applicant does not meet the full qualifications stipulated by the criteria herein or in other cases not specified in this Order but a competent officer equivalent to or higher than inspector is of the opinion that the alien has legitimate reason for staying in the Kingdom of Thailand, the application shall be forwarded to the Commander of the Royal Thai Police or an authorized competent officer for further consideration of the alien's application.

 

[wayned]

The key words being "competent officer", but I agree worth a try at the end of your last 90 day entry. 

                                                              

[BritTim]

Your nationality and age may be relevant. UK nationals over age 65, for instance, can often get a multiple Non O (back in home country) with minimal finances.

 

My condolences for your loss, and I hope everything works out for you.

[Hira]

The condition of retirement visa " 800,000 Baht " can be calculated by adding together your pension and Bank deposits, such as Pension : 400,000 Baht per year & Deposit: 400,000 Baht.

 

Or in case you have a child with your wife,  you can change to Guardian Visa at Immigration. 500,000 Baht deposit is required.

 

Thanks,

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, Hira said:

Or in case you have a child with your wife,  you can change to Guardian Visa at Immigration. 500,000 Baht deposit is required.

There is no guardian visa. 

An extension can be obtained for being the parent of a Thai. The financial requirement for it is 400k baht in the bank or 40k baht income.

The 500k baht number is for an extension for being the parent of a foreign child attending school.

[MartinL]

Sorry to hear about your sudden loss, Randell and I sincerely hope you get through this difficult time and are able to stay in your home. 

 

People more knowledgeable than I will give advice on your visa situation.

 

Being practical for a moment and thinking of you and your ability to stay in your marital home (immigration rules permitting), you say you'd been together 22 years and registered the marriage only 2 years ago. Thinking of protecting your interests re. the house and land - since you were legally married and if your wife died without a will, I believe that, as surviving spouse, you're entitled to 50% of the marital property and (possibly) a share of the remaining 50% too - it doesn't automatically go to Thai family if there's no will. You don't mention children so I presume there are none. Inheriting 50% would allow you to sell/donate the land to the sister or family (you'd have to dispose of it within a year since, as I'm sure you know, you can't own the land) and, as part of that transfer process, negotiate a legal entitlement (usufruct) on your house and your share of the land so that you're legally entitled to stay there for life rather than rely on the goodwill of the new or any subsequent owners - goodwill that could be withdrawn at any moment.   

 

I attach a couple of pages that might be of help. How accurate the information is, I don't know since I've never had to use it (fortunately) but, if it's incorrect in some detail I'm sure someone will be along to clarify. 

 

Good luck and I hope you come out of this with a home in Thailand, where you can stay with the memories of a happy life with your wife, rather than having to go back to your old country (Canada?).

 

Inheritance Law.pdf

Edited November 27, 2016 by MartinL

[steve187]

sorry to hear about your loss, many on here could find them-self in that same situation, i would make full use of the non imm 'o' that you have, doing 2 border runs if that is required, as posted tell us a bit more about your nationality etc. and more advice could follow.

[chiang mai]

My condolences to the OP for his loss.

[mstevens]

I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your wife and you have my sympathies.

[MalandLee]

I hope you can move on with your life, I am so very sorry for you.

[Denim]

In theory , if you still have your original Thai marriage certificate, you could go to Suvannakhet in Laos and apply for another multiple non immigrant visa type 0 based on marriage. I am not sure of the legality of this but they are unlikely to be aware of your wife's death and it would at least give you another year to put your affairs in order.

 

Again ..... I repeat.....it might not be legal but I know it works as a friend of mine did this for several years.

Of course...in the end the truth might come out and have consequences so you need to decide how long you wish to remain living in Thailand.

It is a personal decision and the pros and cons of this have to be carefully considered. As a short term fix it will work but with Thai laws tightening all the time it could have repercussions in years to come.

[Deepinthailand]

My deepest condolences. I know where you are now and it's not a good place. May I suggest you take the advise offered here and get as long as you can out of your existing visa, this will give you a little bit of breathing space, and in a month or two re visit your visa question, when you are in a slightly better place. 

[chiman]

Very sorry for your loss

[Saan]

I am very sorry to hear of your loss.

In many cases people who have had a long and happy marriage are more likely to remarry. I know it is very early for you to be thinking along those lines but in the future it might be the solution.

[JAFO]

My condolences as well Randell. My wife and I have been working on this very thing as you just never know. My wife doesn't want me to have to leave as we built the house together and we have no children. 

 

At this juncture I can only confirm what others have said and that your Visa is good until the date but after you will have to do some leg work to find out your options, especially being your Pension doesn't meet the requirement. 

 

Do you have a yellow book or are you registered to live at the house? If so inheritance laws do apply foreigner or not. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[ubonjoe]

Some off topic and inflammatory posts have been removed. No further notice will given when posts are removed.

[chuang]

Very sorry for your loss..

[IMA_FARANG]

If you do really have a Non O multi entry visa good for one year then your visa is still valid until it's expiration date.

Which you say is 17 February, 2017.

Your wife's death ha no efect on that .

Your visa stays valid until it expires.

As somrone mentioned you can do your last exit and re-entry to Thailand one day before your visa expires.

Just return before your visa expires and you will get an automatic 90 day "permit to stay stamp" which will remain valid until that stay stamp expires....90 days more.

After that you will have to find a reason for another visa,

So in your case just re-enter before 17 Feb 2017 and get that 90 day "permitted to stay" stamp.

Then decide what to do from there.

Condolances on the seath of you wife.

 

Note: i am asuuming yu really do have a Non O multi entryvisa obtained outside o Thailand good for one year as you say, and NOT a one year  extesion based om marriage to a Thai obtained in Thailand at immigratio.

 

 

[muzmurray]

11 minutes ago, IMA_FARANG said:

If you do really have a Non O multi entry visa good for one year then your visa is still valid until it's expiration date.

Which you say is 17 February, 2017.

Your wife's death ha no efect on that .

Your visa stays valid until it expires.

As somrone mentioned you can do your last exit and re-entry to Thailand one day before your visa expires.

Just return before your visa expires and you will get an automatic 90 day "permit to stay stamp" which will remain valid until that stay stamp expires....90 days more.

After that you will have to find a reason for another visa,

So in your case just re-enter before 17 Feb 2017 and get that 90 day "permitted to stay" stamp.

Then decide what to do from there.

Condolances on the seath of you wife.

 

Note: i am asuuming yu really do have a Non O multi entryvisa obtained outside o Thailand good for one year as you say, and NOT a one year  extesion based om marriage to a Thai obtained in Thailand at immigratio.

 

 

From the OP;

"It was issued in Vancouver on Feb 26,16 expires on Feb 25 ,17."

 

If you took time to read the OP's post, you would not write such balderdash !

[al007]

Randell, 

 

Sad to hear your news, must be difficult for you at the moment, I wish you well

 

An observation, and I am not a lawyer, merely a retired Chartered Accountant from England, I believe under Thai Law you are entitled to at least 50% of your wife estate, if you could sell some of the land you have inherited, it could fund the 800,000 required for retirement visa, or maybe borrow from the sister

 

The economics of farming rice today do not add up, you are better buying the rice each December from other farmers

 

To others reading this thread, it is important our wives have wills, my wife today owns more than I do all of which has come from me, and if she dies before me it all comes back to me, and without it I would not have enough to continue a very comfortable life here in Thailand

 

My wife is 30 yrs younger than me, and over time I have been transferring assets so when I go she will be well provided for and have no hassle, I do also have power of attorney over those assets but in the event of her death that would cease

[NoshowJones]

20 hours ago, wayned said:

Sorry to hear about your loss, my wife died suddenly on 23 March 2015, but I am on a retirement extension and have extended it twice since then.

 

Your multiple entry visa is valid until  Feb 25, 2017.  You can make as many entries as you want up until that date and you will get 90 days on entry.  If you exit and return on 25 Feb you will get 90 days even though the actual visa has expired. 

 

If you do not have any children and do not qualify financially for a retirement extension your only option will be to either get a single entry tourist visa in a nearby country or return home and get a METV.  There is no option  for the local village chief or others to sponsor you.

The Thai government is very unfair towards people like you and the OP, you are able to get retirement extensions, but there are lots of people like the OP, who cannot afford that, yet are good retirees and contribute well to the Thai economy, there are also the under fifties who do not want to get married, and find it hard to stay here in Thailand long term because of all the hoop jumping they have to do.

I still sometimes come across ex pats who think the Thai government can do no wrong, but the way I see it is unless you are really rich, the Thai government have no time for you.

[akentryan]

Had this happen last year. You don't have any choice in what happens to anything that is in her name. Do not count on the family to do the right thing. Greed will most likely rear its ugly head and all it has to be is one person. If you have joint bank accounts close them. If she had a bank account and an ATM card and you know the password withdraw the money. I had to buy my car paying one-third of its value. I had to buy my house paying  one-third of the value. Still own two-thirds of a house in BKK they say is worth 3 million. I would gladly sell for 2.4 and take my 1.6 and run. I did get two-thirds of her bank accounts,  Like you my relations with the family was outstanding. It still is with the young ones. It is the senior siblings that cause the problems. Good luck as I know exactly how you feel. Total chaos on my end with losing my wife of 23 years and then buying my own crap all over again. Don't do like me - I drink a lot now. 

[Thaidream]

My sincerest condolences to you- the same happened to me- my Thai wife of 25  died in Thailand while I was under the marriage extension of stay.  After a period of mourning- I went to Immigration and they instructed me to switch to a retirement extension of stay which I did and fortunately had the required financials. I was aware of the clause that Ubon Jo quoted where an applicant could request an exception but was informed since I could meet the retirement requirement I didn't need an exception. However, it definitely exists and my impression is that if there is no other way- they will consider it. I do believe to get it -you would need support from Thai citizens- family and Phuyai Ban. who could act as witnesses and verify your long term good standing in Thailand and the village.

 

I know these are tough time for you but as time passes the pain will ease. Even though I eventually remarried, my deceased wife is always in my heart. My best to you.

[akentryan]

15 minutes ago, al007 said:

Randell, 

 

Sad to hear your news, must be difficult for you at the moment, I wish you well

 

An observation, and I am not a lawyer, merely a retired Chartered Accountant from England, I believe under Thai Law you are entitled to at least 50% of your wife estate, if you could sell some of the land you have inherited, it could fund the 800,000 required for retirement visa, or maybe borrow from the sister

 

The economics of farming rice today do not add up, you are better buying the rice each December from other farmers

 

To others reading this thread, it is important our wives have wills, my wife today owns more than I do all of which has come from me, and if she dies before me it all comes back to me, and without it I would not have enough to continue a very comfortable life here in Thailand

 

My wife is 30 yrs younger than me, and over time I have been transferring assets so when I go she will be well provided for and have no hassle, I do also have power of attorney over those assets but in the event of her death that would cease

He is entitled to 50% plus he shares equally in the other 50% with the mother and father. He has two-thirds. That is assuming the land and house is in her name. If it isn't, he has nothing except what they wish to give him. A lot will also depend on who is named the Executor if she actually owns the land and house. The Executor has one year to liquidate the estate.  The husband has the option of buying the family out by paying one-third of the FMV of the property. But again he has to have a Thai person to take title - the sister perhaps? The family has the option of doing nothing and waiting him out, Just went through this last year with a wife that was 20 years younger. She died without a will and she was a lawyer. All it takes is one family member "that doesn't want to give up their inheritance" to screw everything up. Count on greed coming into play.    

[bark]

17 hours ago, MartinL said:

Sorry to hear about your sudden loss, Randell and I sincerely hope you get through this difficult time and are able to stay in your home. 

 

People more knowledgeable than I will give advice on your visa situation.

 

Being practical for a moment and thinking of you and your ability to stay in your marital home (immigration rules permitting), you say you'd been together 22 years and registered the marriage only 2 years ago. Thinking of protecting your interests re. the house and land - since you were legally married and if your wife died without a will, I believe that, as surviving spouse, you're entitled to 50% of the marital property and (possibly) a share of the remaining 50% too - it doesn't automatically go to Thai family if there's no will. You don't mention children so I presume there are none. Inheriting 50% would allow you to sell/donate the land to the sister or family (you'd have to dispose of it within a year since, as I'm sure you know, you can't own the land) and, as part of that transfer process, negotiate a legal entitlement (usufruct) on your house and your share of the land so that you're legally entitled to stay there for life rather than rely on the goodwill of the new or any subsequent owners - goodwill that could be withdrawn at any moment.   

 

I attach a couple of pages that might be of help. How accurate the information is, I don't know since I've never had to use it (fortunately) but, if it's incorrect in some detail I'm sure someone will be along to clarify. 

 

Good luck and I hope you come out of this with a home in Thailand, where you can stay with the memories of a happy life with your wife, rather than having to go back to your old country (Canada?).

 

Inheritance Law.pdf

Sorry for your loss. maybe good idea for all Foreign men who are married, to review with a lawyer, what happens if their wife dies ? Same as writing a will, and leaving copies with lawyers, or kids in another country.

Again, best wishes.

[Randell]

Thank you all very much for your thoughtful replies and your kindness. I shall do as suggested and get the maximum out of this visa and use the time to figure out how to proceed.

Randell

[houstoniron]

14 hours ago, Denim said:

In theory , if you still have your original Thai marriage certificate, you could go to Suvannakhet in Laos and apply for another multiple non immigrant visa type 0 based on marriage. I am not sure of the legality of this but they are unlikely to be aware of your wife's death and it would at least give you another year to put your affairs in order.

 

Again ..... I repeat.....it might not be legal but I know it works as a friend of mine did this for several years.

Of course...in the end the truth might come out and have consequences so you need to decide how long you wish to remain living in Thailand.

It is a personal decision and the pros and cons of this have to be carefully considered. As a short term fix it will work but with Thai laws tightening all the time it could have repercussions in years to come.

I dont think this will work because the wife must sign the copy of the marriage certificate presented