phuket town immigration scam

[dadey]

Today (this morning at about 11.00am at counter number 3) my friend was charged 600 baht because she did not have a 'Receipt of Notification' (confirming address in Thailand) slip in her passport.

 

She was not given a receipt for this charge and was told if she wanted to pay the 'full' fine of 1,600 baht she would have to join the queue again and go to another desk.

 

She was extending her 60 day Tourist Visa.

 

She obviously had given Thai address on the TM.6 Arrival card.

 

Another example of corrupt Phuket immigration officials....

 

 

[stevenl]

So the scam is she is fined for a violation that should cost her more than she is charged.

 

Did I understand this correct?

[dadey]

hey Steve... no, actually, she should not have been charged or fined anything... she has given the address already. There was no violation at all.

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by dadey
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[glegolo]

Instead of only whining here, why not man up, and direct this complaint to the proper places in Thailand.

You can call,,,, or you have 2 different webpages where you can complain about this, and at least let these bastards have eyes on them.

 

Good luck

Glegolo

[dadey]

Hey Glegolo... I've just scanned the immigration home page and cannot see anywhere to complain... I tried with the tourist police volunteers there but they refused to get involved ...

 

D'you know where I can complain?

[ubonjoe]

Not a scam. Under section 38 of the immigration act a foreigners presence at a residence must be reported with 24 of arrival at that residence.

Some info here: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

The max fine is 2,000 bajt for a home owner and a fine of 2,000 to 10.000 for a business. An individual can be fined as the possessor of the residence.

The address put on a arrival card does overcome the need for the report.

[stevenl]

25 minutes ago, dadey said:

hey Steve... no, actually, she should not have been charged or fined anything... she has given the address already. There was no violation at all.

 

No, she could have been charged 2,000 baht because there was a violation. She did not report her address.

[thonglorjimmy]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

No, she could have been charged 2,000 baht because there was a violation. She did not report her address.

The link which Joe has provided the link for indicates that it is the responsibility of the householder to report the stay of the guest, not the guest themselves, have I misread it?

I can't find the section where it says that you can pay the Immigration Officer 600 Baht, with no receipt, rather than queue up and pay the 1,600 Baht the op was quoted or the 2,000 Baht if you want a receipt that you and Joe mention. Are you saying that this is totally legit then?

[dadey]

Hmm... well, I appreciate all your inputs but I respectfully beg to differ... a copy of her passport was given to the house owner on arrival and to be honest when reading "sect 38" link given I cannot see where there is any reference 'the foreigner's' responsibility to report address.

 

 @Steve surely you are not suggesting that every tourist must report their address within 'X' days of arrival here ??

 

Anyway ... I have raised the issue/complaint via email to the Damrongdhama Centre  in Phuket Town. I am told this is the correct channel for complaint.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2016 by dadey
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[steve187]

3 minutes ago, dadey said:

Hmm... well, I appreciate all your inputs but I respectfully beg to differ... a copy of her passport was given to the house owner on arrival and to be honest when reading "sect 38" link given I cannot see where there is any reference 'the foreigner's' responsibility to report address.

 

 @Steve surely you are not suggesting that every tourist must report their address with 60 days of arrival here ??

 

no their address must be reported within 24 hours and the bottom part of form tm30 kept as a receipt, but in reality, it only needs to be done in some areas when any contact is made with immigration. ie. extension, re-entry permit.

 

what did the house owner do with the copy of the passport

 

this subject has been done to death on thaivisa

Edited December 13, 2016 by steve187

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, thonglorjimmy said:

The link which Joe has provided the link for indicates that it is the responsibility of the householder to report the stay of the guest, not the guest themselves, have I misread it?

This is what the title of the TM30 form used for the report state. " NOTIFICATION FROM FOR HOUSE-MASTER, OWNER OR THE POSSESSOR OF THE RESIDENCE WHERE ALIEN HAS STAYED" Download: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/download/pdf/tm30.pdf

The responsibility for the report can passed to the individual as possesor of the residence.

There have been sevral topics about the reports on this forum.

[Lamkyong]

whilst some may   back and forth about rules and regs   she joined the so called scam  by paying up, back to the rules no comment because i don't know  having said that good heads up for others

[dadey]

7 minutes ago, thonglorjimmy said:

The link which Joe has provided the link for indicates that it is the responsibility of the householder to report the stay of the guest, not the guest themselves, have I misread it?

I can't find the section where it says that you can pay the Immigration Officer 600 Baht, with no receipt, rather than queue up and pay the 1,600 Baht the op was quoted or the 2,000 Baht if you want a receipt that you and Joe mention. Are you saying that this is totally legit then?

I am saying it was NOT totally legit and immigration just gouging 600 baht

[steve187]

2 minutes ago, dadey said:

I am saying it was NOT totally legit and immigration just gouging 600 baht

why was it paid then

[dadey]

5 minutes ago, steve187 said:

 

no their address must be reported within 24 hours and the bottom part of form tm30 kept as a receipt, but in reality, it only needs to be done in some areas when any contact is made with immigration. ie. extension, re-entry permit.

 

what did the house owner do with the copy of the passport

 

this subject has been done to death on thaivisa

the house owner said he filed the paperwork within 24 hours but of course he has the TM30 receipt slip...

[dadey]

1 minute ago, steve187 said:

why was it paid then

because she wanted her passport back ... and was too scared to argue...

[stevenl]

20 minutes ago, dadey said:

because she wanted her passport back ... and was too scared to argue...

An argument she would have lost.

 

As you said in your OP already: she could have joined the other queue and make this payment legit.

 

If she is staying at a private residence, chances are the house master did not report, unless you think he made the trek to immigration for something that he totally does not care about and which is totally irrelevant to him.

Unfortunately with the system this means that she has to pay up.

[JetsetBkk]

25 minutes ago, dadey said:

the house owner said he filed the paperwork within 24 hours but of course he has the TM30 receipt slip...

 

So is every tourist supposed to carry this receipt slip in their passport?

 

I guess only if you go to an immigration office, especially in Phuket.

[eisfeld]

So every time I exit and enter the country (which happens every now and then as I have to travel) the house owner has to go to immigration, register me and bring me the receipt? Yea sure, that's gonna happen.

 

Sounds like immigration has realized there's an even bigger opportunity to get some bribes other than the usual certificate of residence "tips". There are way more people extending their permissions of stay than people who get those residency certificates. And at 600THB a piece, that's gonna be some serious cash generator.

 

Will see what they tell me next time I want to do an extension. I have registered myself in their system quite some time ago when I needed a residency certificate but have left and re-entered the country. I don't have the receipt anymore and when I asked last time if they can print me a new one, they refused. If they start fining me now every time then that's gonna fill up the bucket of bs another bit and it's getting close to being full.

[KarenBravo]

5 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

So every time I exit and enter the country (which happens every now and then as I have to travel) the house owner has to go to immigration, register me and bring me the receipt? Yea sure, that's gonna happen.

 

Sounds like immigration has realized there's an even bigger opportunity to get some bribes other than the usual certificate of residence "tips". There are way more people extending their permissions of stay than people who get those residency certificates. And at 600THB a piece, that's gonna be some serious cash generator.

 

Will see what they tell me next time I want to do an extension. I have registered myself in their system quite some time ago when I needed a residency certificate but have left and re-entered the country. I don't have the receipt anymore and when I asked last time if they can print me a new one, they refused. If they start fining me now every time then that's gonna fill up the bucket of bs another bit and it's getting close to being full.

 

If you leave the country, but, come back to the same address every time, you don't have to re-register your address.

More complicated is if you stay in a hotel in Thailand before going home.

[maxisrael]

38 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said:

 

So is every tourist supposed to carry this receipt slip in their passport?

 

I guess only if you go to an immigration office, especially in Phuket.

We had 5 guests (family) staying with us my wife reported with the TM 30 and the second list with all the guests names , passport numbers ,  visa etc. etc. she only gets back 1 (one) slip the one down on the form so only 1 person has the receipt in his / her passport .

[LivinLOS]

36 minutes ago, KarenBravo said:

 

If you leave the country, but, come back to the same address every time, you don't have to re-register your address.

More complicated is if you stay in a hotel in Thailand before going home.

 

Cant give hard and fast rules.. CNX said it was every movement of 24h.. they have now reduced that to every enter or exit of the country.. 

 

Each entry to Thailand they feel you should go report.. Is todays view.. What it will be tomorrow god knows. 

[NancyL]

25 minutes ago, maxisrael said:

We had 5 guests (family) staying with us my wife reported with the TM 30 and the second list with all the guests names , passport numbers ,  visa etc. etc. she only gets back 1 (one) slip the one down on the form so only 1 person has the receipt in his / her passport .

Our condo office files a TM30 form on behalf of residents, including renter and provides a "print-screen" of their input since no receipt is generated when they use the same on-line filing system that hotels use.  

 

And yes, I keep a copy of this receipt stapled in my passport, much like the TM6 and 90 day report receipt are stapled in my passport.  For someone who is listed on a receipt with multiple other people, a copy stapled in the passport would be adequate.

 

Really, all the Imm. officer has to do is look up in their system to see if a TM30 is on file.  Don't really know if one was in the OP's case.  Perhaps the owner did, perhaps not.  If it had been me, I would have asked for my passport back and gone to have a little chat with my landlord and not rolled over and paid either 600 baht or the "legitimate" 1600 baht.

 

I suspect there actually IS a TM30 on file, but since there isn't a receipt in the OP's passport, the Imm. officer decided to see if she knew, thus the successful attempt at the 600 baht shakedown.  All the more reason to talk with the landlord and not simply roll over and fork over the bribe.

[stevenl]

4 minutes ago, LivinLOS said:

 

Cant give hard and fast rules.. CNX said it was every movement of 24h.. they have now reduced that to every enter or exit of the country.. 

 

Each entry to Thailand they feel you should go report.. Is todays view.. What it will be tomorrow god knows. 

It varies from office to office. Phuket does not require report after exiting and entering.

[thedemon]

It would seem that the solution is to write a hotel name as your address.

[elviajero]

3 hours ago, thonglorjimmy said:

The link which Joe has provided the link for indicates that it is the responsibility of the householder to report the stay of the guest, not the guest themselves, have I misread it?

I can't find the section where it says that you can pay the Immigration Officer 600 Baht, with no receipt, rather than queue up and pay the 1,600 Baht the op was quoted or the 2,000 Baht if you want a receipt that you and Joe mention. Are you saying that this is totally legit then?

The fine was legitimate but it seems the IO may have pocketed 600 baht. The OP's friend, if the 'possessor' of the property, or the owner, or the person named in the house book as the house-master, are equally responsible for submitting the TM30 report. Anyone of them can be fined up to 2,000 baht if a report isn't made. The typical fine being reported is 800 baht.

Edited December 13, 2016 by elviajero

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

If you leave the country, but, come back to the same address every time, you don't have to re-register your address.

More complicated is if you stay in a hotel in Thailand before going home.

 

It depends on which immigration office. Some offices insist that you report every time you re-enter. They fine you (even if you are not strictly the possessor, but a guest in the house) because they can, and because fining the correct person under the law would involve effort.

One approach to consider is based on the fact that anyone can submit the TM-30 report (with correct supporting documentation) on the householder's behalf. You can get a dozen identical copies of the necessary documentation, and submit one yourself each time you come back into the country. Whether this is reasonably convenient depends on how far you live from the immigration office.

If the immigration office really wants to extort money from you, they can start strictly applying the rules on TM-28 reporting.

[arithai12]

16 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not a scam. Under section 38 of the immigration act a foreigners presence at a residence must be reported with 24 of arrival at that residence.

Some info here: http://www.immigration.go.th/nov2004/en/base.php?page=alienstay

The max fine is 2,000 bajt for a home owner and a fine of 2,000 to 10.000 for a business. An individual can be fined as the possessor of the residence.

The address put on a arrival card does overcome the need for the report.

True, it is the law. Endless discussions on this elsewhere.

However, it was not done properly: if the officer was charging a fine, he must issue a receipt. We got fined 1,600 (husband and wife) and got a receipt for that. In the case of the OP, I suspect those 600B ended in the officer's pocket.

[arithai12]

15 hours ago, KarenBravo said:

 

If you leave the country, but, come back to the same address every time, you don't have to re-register your address.

More complicated is if you stay in a hotel in Thailand before going home.

Not correct. If you leave the country and return to the same address, you still have to update your TM-30 slip. So yes, formally it's not a new registration but in practice you still need to go to an immigration office, show your passport, TM6 and TM30 slip.

 

It's madness I know. And I agree that if you know that you won't be needing other immigration services before your next trip abroad, it's well worth skipping it.

[KarenBravo]

2 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Not correct. If you leave the country and return to the same address, you still have to update your TM-30 slip. So yes, formally it's not a new registration but in practice you still need to go to an immigration office, show your passport, TM6 and TM30 slip.

 

It's madness I know. And I agree that if you know that you won't be needing other immigration services before your next trip abroad, it's well worth skipping it.

 

Not here in Phuket. I talked to Immigration in Phuket Town and in Patong.

When my missus and I went to Immigration to register the address, they told the missus that as it was a private house and that I lived there, then there was no need to re-register if I left the country to work and then came back to Phuket.

I have left Thailand and come back many times. I have now had two extensions of stay and I had no problems. So far, I have only registered my address once.

 

Anything to do with ANY government department cannot be split conveniently into "Not correct" and "Correct".

Depends on location, the person you ask and interpretation, but, I would have thought you would know that by now......