Thailand charges 19 'red shirt' leaders with violating junta ban

[bangrak]

1 hour ago, pegman said:

Your out of your bloody mind. Dangerous point? Are you calling all those blue haired ladies demonstrating in Bangkok for the YellowShirts  a theat of insurrection?  Stop this nonsense your embarrassing yourself. 

Wouldn't you then already call the redshirts' 2010 violent occupation of central Bangkok an 'insurrection' then, leaving the old ladies in red out of the count?

[bangrak]

15 minutes ago, JAG said:

Semantics? No sir. You  made a post criticising Reuters for inaccurate reporting. In that post you made the claim that Yingluck was forced out by popular protest, a claim that is manifestly and significantly false; at least as misleading and frankly untrue as you allege Reuters to be. Semantics implies that by changing a form of words you can alter an interpretation. I am not challenging an interpretation, I am challenging a fundamental and blatant falsehood.

 

You do have some form on this though don't you? Twice in recent months, on separate threads on this forum you have stated that Abhisit was forced from office by the Redshirt protests in 2010, whereas he was defeated in a general election a significant time later. You were called out by me and several others on that as I recall.

 

I'm sure that you wish to be regarded as a well informed commentator on the current political situation.  You post vociferously, as I do. albeit from a diametrically opposing viewpoint. You surely can't expect to be considered as a serious commentator if you regularly make false claims,  criticise others (in this case Reuters) for being inaccurate., and defend rebuttal of your false claims as being mere semantics.

 

So one last time. Yingluck was not forced from office by the "peoples protests". She was removed by the courts for a separate reason.

'JAG' when not 'semantics', would you accept the formulation 'personal free interpretation of facts', of course not thinking: turning and twisting, re-arranging facts, biased and misleading, or even: propaganda, which would all not be nice to say about your posts, and not correct, well, not 100% so... LOL

Why not admit the, red, nose in the middle of your face? Because your avatar is an ass and not a reindeer? Pity, as it is reindeers' time of the year, and I didn't mean 'reindeer season'... LOL

[JAG]

3 minutes ago, bangrak said:

'JAG' when not 'semantics', would you accept the formulation 'personal free interpretation of facts', of course not thinking: turning and twisting, re-arranging facts, biased and misleading, or even: propaganda, which would all not be nice to say about your posts, and not correct, well, not 100% so... LOL

Why not admit the, red, nose in the middle of your face? Because your avatar is an ass and not a reindeer? Pity, as it is reindeers' time of the year, and I didn't mean 'reindeer season'... LOL

 

If 'personal free interpretation of facts' leads to a false statement, which is then repeated in the face of evidence to the contrary then no, it doesn't change anything; reindeer, red noses and seasons of the year notwithstanding! Sorry.

[Eric Loh]

1 hour ago, bangrak said:

Wouldn't you then already call the redshirts' 2010 violent occupation of central Bangkok an 'insurrection' then, leaving the old ladies in red out of the count?

 

I believed the defination of insurrection means "uprising against the authority". How does occupying of only a locality of Bangkok and pressuring for an early election constitute as insurrection. Just curious. On the other hand, if the protestors attack government buildings and the airports, that will constitute as an uprising. 

[ramrod711]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

 

I believed the defination of insurrection means "uprising against the authority". How does occupying of only a locality of Bangkok and pressuring for an early election constitute as insurrection. Just curious. On the other hand, if the protestors attack government buildings and the airports, that will constitute as an uprising. 

 

The poor people who listened to their red leaders and did indeed attempt to "burn their city halls" in the north were part of an insurrection, as were the people that told them to do it. Interestingly many of them were still in jail through Yinglucks term while she tried to get amnesty for her brother and the rest of the criminal elite red leaders.

[halloween]

16 hours ago, aussieinthailand said:

Yu'p having issues with sticky key's man  cheers...

[Ricardo]

15 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

 

I believed the defination of insurrection means "uprising against the authority". How does occupying of only a locality of Bangkok and pressuring for an early election constitute as insurrection. Just curious. On the other hand, if the protestors attack government buildings and the airports, that will constitute as an uprising. 

 

I recall the 2010-protests as being more widespread, than just the part of Bangkok where they fortified & occupied an area for three months, killing soldiers & civilians and having burning-down-the-capital as one of their previously-declared objectives ?

 

Flying back into Bangkok in May on a half-empty flight, and seeing the smoke rising in many places, certainly gave the impression of there being more than just "pressuring for an early election".

 

But IMO it's to Yingluck's personal credit that, having failed in her amnesty-attempt for her brother and facing much-larger if shorter-lived peaceful-protests, she resigned and called an election.  Similarly to Abhisit's credit, that he tried hard to negotiate with the protesters, appearing to have reached (on TV !) a deal for a peaceful ending, which was mysteriously derailed at-the-last-minute by that never-to-be-explained phone-call.

 

Pity she failed to achieve her objective, due partly to Suthep's mob & partly to ignoring the EC's warnings, about the level of security which was clearly needed to run the election. I believe her party would have seen reduced-support by then, and possibly even have lost power. But we'll never know.

 

 

[baboon]

"Flying back into Bangkok in May on a half-empty flight, and seeing the smoke rising in many places, certainly gave the impression of there being more than just "pressuring for an early election"."

 

So did I and saw no such thing. The place was functioning as normal from my perspective.

I have been flying fairly frequently of late and if you want to talk about half empty flights, let's talk about Emirates A380s in the past 12 months...

[scorecard]

23 hours ago, bangrak said:

'yellowboat', maybe you misread that post of mine you quoted? Not saying that the situation in Thailand had improved in any way during the tenure of, most of, the Dems' governments, Chuan's an exception, before, IMO, it's after these it has degraded a lot, since the start of the Shins' clan long planned throw to total power. May I remind you about them, before founding a party of their own, TRT, being strongly involved in DP, Thaksin's father and an uncle having f.i. MPs for DP many years long, and Thaksin himself, with the support of his powerfull clan, being for years 'under the wings of' Chuan, who later declared: 'My biggest mistake has been to have bread a snake...'. The Shins' strategic campaign was 'brilliant', and probably patiently prepared many years long, with this Trojan horse, and swift moves to take the 'fort Thailand' by its badly protected backside: the millions of Thais having been left out in N. and E., as being too poor to contribute in a meaningfull way to the construction of the country, blindly ignoring they were millions of potential voters... And even cheap to buy off too, directly with own money first, to 'prime the pump' getting elected, then more globally, using the Central and S. taxpaying middleclass (who else is...?) money, while still letting those uneducated masses believe the money came out of Thaksin's pockets. By their, very clever and successfull, campaign, the Shins' clan had turned the whole, old, stiff, rules from 'the establishment' upside-down. Not bad at all in itself, was it not that... it destroyed all form of national cohesion. And worse, was hiding a totalitarian model. As IMO clearly inspired by History. Didn't dictator Julius Caesar f.i., not yet an emperor then, have his 'pretorian guard', like the Shins made the R.T.Police Thaksin's? And, really on-topic this, as a mean to become by force what couldn't be got (ab-)using 'democratical processes', create the UDD, the 'activists'' red-shirts movement, with violent militia extensions, 'a bit' like what the black-shirts and S.A.s were for two ugly midgets of fascist dictators called Mussolini and Hitler... 

 

 

Then, a bit later, a couple of hard noses old style dyed in the wool cummunist 'soldiers' join the udd gang.  Are these two really aligned to the UDD / paymasters /money greed goals, or are they just old style communist reactionaries who are looking to join any cause that seems to be off the 'mainstream'?

 

In reality the cause they joined / the udd gang doesn't even have any specific stand alone goals. An for all of their claims about defending / building democracy (and the all time doozie, 'I can't resign, I must stay to protect democracy' from the mushroom gardener) they don't have any 'democratic' philosophy, policies or processes in terms of their own leadership.   

[scorecard]

On 12/16/2016 at 3:53 PM, Eric Loh said:

 

You too kind,Sharecropper. These supporters ain't ignorant or stupid and they have the right as we do to chose side. However their side is for unfathomable power, totalitarian, authoritarian and rightist views and fits in the category of fascism. I am sure they can explain their fascination with fascism. 

 

 

Just for clarit,y no doubt your talking about the paymaster and his goons. 

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

 

Just for clarit,y no doubt your talking about the paymaster and his goons. 

 

A big NO. Try again please. 

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

 

A big NO. Try again please. 

 

 

But el, your detailed description fits the udd and its paymaster and his now well known philosophies and methods and goals, and his paid yes men, in every detail. 

[geriatrickid]

On 12/16/2016 at 6:02 AM, FrankThai said:

The army is doing a great job in a highly difficult situation.   Most Thais that I know support the stability that has been in place since the coup.

 

Democracy as practiced in Europe or the United States is not necessarily the best system in parts of Asia.  Different cultures may mean a different system. 

 

Thanks for joining Thai Visa to disseminate the military rulers'position. It would have been more effective had you just copy and pasted the  military's url which outline's your position.

 

Summarily arresting and incarcerating political opponents never works. All it does is encourage them to become more discrete and more secretive. The Thai military administration is beset by serious financial and corruption issues and cannot even manage its edicts on Bangkok sidewalk traffic and yet you claim that the regime is doing a great job. Brilliant logic.

 

Most Thais you know? You don't know  a diverse group of Thais do you? The reality is that the Thais are disinterrested, and disengaged. The majority are living pay pack to pay pack, job to job, barely able to pay their bills and carrying personal debts that are too high. A large portion of the population cannot  access appropriate medical care like cancertreatments becaus of the lack of resources and the  extra costs involved. The country is seeing a resurgence of HIV infections combined with the just as deadly hepatitis epidemic. Tuberculosis still rages. Deaths from dengue and malaria continue unabated.  There is a potable water crisis and here are to describe this all as being a "great job".All this despite the  Incisive assessment you offered.

 

Different cultures mean a different system? That's a round about way of excusing inappropriate   activities isn't it?  You know who used to same the same thing? Mobutu Sese Seko, and successive Chinese governments. The North Koreans  have their own way of doing things and they call it Juche.   

 

Nice job.

 

 

 

 

[dcnx]

On 12/16/2016 at 2:28 PM, jcsmith said:

 

Considering that they have not lost an election in 15 years yet spent much of that without power would say that they are on the right side of democracy. 

 

This. So this.

 

Love them or hate them, votes bought or not, they always win. 

[Chip Allen]

Wonder if the junta will ban overthrowing elected governments and installing your own??  That might solve a problem or two.

[taiwanatoa]

Thailand is paralysed and hopeless and will continue to be until freedom of speech and assembly is someday  finally legalised.

[taiwanatoa]

WOW, 

geriatrickid  really nailed it. Great comment!

Finally an intelligent foreigner who really knows what the reality is.

[taiwanatoa]

On 12/17/2016 at 1:11 PM, robblok said:

 

Your playing a semantics game JAG nothing more.. she called for new elections because of the people protesting against her (in result stepping down). She would never have done that had there not been such massive protests against the amnesty of her criminal brother.  I see the non completion of her term and early elections as stepping down. 

So because Taksin  is a criminal then it is alright for the pathetic ignorant masses to support and  be taken in by the criminal royalist Yellows?!

[halloween]

19 hours ago, baboon said:

"Flying back into Bangkok in May on a half-empty flight, and seeing the smoke rising in many places, certainly gave the impression of there being more than just "pressuring for an early election"."

 

So did I and saw no such thing. The place was functioning as normal from my perspective.

I have been flying fairly frequently of late and if you want to talk about half empty flights, let's talk about Emirates A380s in the past 12 months...

Perhaps your guide dog should have drawn your attention to it.

[yellowboat]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

Perhaps your guide dog should have drawn your attention to it.

Here is a picture of your guide dog.  Please note the rose colored spectacles. 

Edited December 19, 2016 by yellowboat

[baboon]

3 hours ago, halloween said:

Perhaps your guide dog should have drawn your attention to it.

Nothing to argue back with, so let's resort to insults and pretty crappy insults at that...

[robblok]

8 hours ago, taiwanatoa said:

So because Taksin  is a criminal then it is alright for the pathetic ignorant masses to support and  be taken in by the criminal royalist Yellows?!

I just like Thaksin less than the yellowshirts I think he is more evil. YL would still be in power had she not gone for the amnesty for her brother.. that last minute change brought out the masses that made her step down and now we got a junta. This is all because that guy over in Dubai wanted his crimes forgotten. There are so many more courtcases against him where fellow criminals already have been convicted for long jailtime (the loans that were never repaid). 

The scandals around the new PM pale in comparison (though his nephew is a fine example of nepotims / maybe corruption and shows that he too is a hypocrite). But it still pales in comparison. 

[Ricardo]

On 18/12/2016 at 9:28 AM, baboon said:

"Flying back into Bangkok in May on a half-empty flight, and seeing the smoke rising in many places, certainly gave the impression of there being more than just "pressuring for an early election"."

 

So did I and saw no such thing. The place was functioning as normal from my perspective.

<snip for brevity>

 

So perhaps we were on different flights, on a different day, do you think ?  Meaning we're both right ?

 

But I know what I saw, from the window of my Jet Airways B737, as we circled South of the capital before landing.

[Eric Loh]

6 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

So perhaps we were on different flights, on a different day, do you think ?  Meaning we're both right ?

 

But I know what I saw, from the window of my Jet Airways B737, as we circled South of the capital before landing.

 

I think so too. It was a different day. The sight that you behold was after the military mowed down the demonstrators and all hell broke loose.  

[Ricardo]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

 

I think so too. It was a different day. The sight that you behold was after the military mowed down the demonstrators and all hell broke loose.  

 

Yes, after three months of violent insurrection, led by the UDD.

[Eric Loh]

4 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

Yes, after three months of violent insurrection, led by the UDD.

 

By your definition, the occupation of the government house for 8 months by the PAD was violent insurrection too. Right? Yet no military storming the site with guns blazing. Different agenda?

[Ricardo]

1 minute ago, Eric Loh said:

 

By your definition, the occupation of the government house for 8 months by the PAD was violent insurrection too. Right? Yet no military storming the site with guns blazing. Different agenda?

 

Right  ...  but the government sent in the police blazing-away, instead. 

 

You may remember that ?  Not much difference/improvement, is there ?

 

The PAD-leaders went to court, so should the UDD-leaders, to answer for what they did.

 

Which is what this thread's about, right ? 

 

 

 

 

 

[robblok]

18 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

 

By your definition, the occupation of the government house for 8 months by the PAD was violent insurrection too. Right? Yet no military storming the site with guns blazing. Different agenda?

'Did you hear the pad leaders advocate the burning of BKK ? inciting their follower to violence.. did they set off bombs ? ... I guess not.. the red are always far more violent than the yellows.  The leaders that advocated the burning of BKK and that led to the burning of building should be in jail for terrorism. Of all the groups the reds are the only ones that have killed 4 kids.. 

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, Ricardo said:

 

Right  ...  but the government sent in the police blazing-away, instead. 

 

You may remember that ?  Not much difference/improvement, is there ?

 

The PAD-leaders went to court, so should the UDD-leaders, to answer for what they did.

 

Which is what this thread's about, right ? 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You mean those limited skirmishes with the police. No military armoured cars and no snipers. The then government didn't made any serious attempt to dislodge the PAD and they were peacefully protesting on their own without causing much impact until they change tact and decided to occupy the airports. 

 

More court news on the UDD and very little of the PAD cases even they were much longer. All without exception should answer to their charges. Hope the judiciary system is set up fairly. 

[robertson468]

On 17/12/2016 at 0:03 PM, Eric Loh said:

 

Are you suggesting that the EC was dubious since they certified and acknowledged the elections. Your opinion please.

Suggest you re-read what I have written.  Red Shirts are not an official political party, therefore are unable to win any elections.  They are certainly supporters of Pheu Thai and could even be termed as political activists, but they are unelected people.